ALR for Wherigo

[+t4e]

in the interest of not bumping a 2 year old thread i am starting a new one, and i am doing so in the Geocaching Topics as opposed to Wherigo section because that's where the original thread is

 

 

Also, a Wherigo cache owner can continue to require a completion code.

 

(edited to specify a Wherigo detail)

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=218388&st=0

 

can someone be so kind and show me where in the Guidelines or KB article is the exception for the Wherigo ALR?

 

i searched high and low and unless i'm blind i can't find it except in the thread i linked, which is not even pinned

[+lamoracke]

you need a Wherigo completion code to log it in on the Wherigo site, but on Geocaching.com, requiring that to "log the find" would be an ALR. You signed the cache whether you did it right, brute forced it, friend gave you the coords...its a find.

 

The completion codes rarely work for me anyway. Even when I write them down, I find I have messed up or it does not work...sometimes when a group of us write them down together, it still does not work. Codes are a pain, I stopped trying for them.

[+tozainamboku]

in the interest of not bumping a 2 year old thread i am starting a new one, and i am doing so in the Geocaching Topics as opposed to Wherigo section because that's where the original thread is

 

 

Also, a Wherigo cache owner can continue to require a completion code.

 

(edited to specify a Wherigo detail)

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=218388&st=0

 

can someone be so kind and show me where in the Guidelines or KB article is the exception for the Wherigo ALR?

 

i searched high and low and unless i'm blind i can't find it except in the thread i linked, which is not even pinned

If Miss Jenn says it's an exception that is good enough for me.

 

But I agree, the guidelines need to be updated to reflect this.

 

On the other hand, I own a Wherigo cache and it has no such ALR. In fact, in my cartridge it states "You may claim a find on the the geocache once you have signed the cache log." (Funny that Toz says you may claim a find once you have signed the cache log). I anticipate that some finders will be in groups where not everyone has a Wherigo device, so I wanted to make it clear that you don't have to unlock the cartridge with the completion code in order to log a find on the geocache.

[+Touchstone]

I have/had several Wherigo Caches, and have never demanded a log entry/completion code/unlock (whatever you call it) on the Wherigo site, due to the reasons mentioned above. Plus around my area, many folks do them in small groups. Someone has the right equipment and everyone else shares in the fun. Plus I never code in the "display completion code" in my Cartridges, so it would be more work than is worthwhile trying to share the completed Cartridge.

 

I like folks to Find my caches, rather than jumping through a bunch of contrived hoops.

[+M 5]

in the interest of not bumping a 2 year old thread i am starting a new one, and i am doing so in the Geocaching Topics as opposed to Wherigo section because that's where the original thread is

 

 

Also, a Wherigo cache owner can continue to require a completion code.

 

(edited to specify a Wherigo detail)

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=218388&st=0

 

can someone be so kind and show me where in the Guidelines or KB article is the exception for the Wherigo ALR?

 

i searched high and low and unless i'm blind i can't find it except in the thread i linked, which is not even pinned

If Miss Jenn says it's an exception that is good enough for me.

 

But I agree, the guidelines need to be updated to reflect this.

 

On the other hand, I own a Wherigo cache and it has no such ALR. In fact, in my cartridge it states "You may claim a find on the the geocache once you have signed the cache log." (Funny that Toz says you may claim a find once you have signed the cache log). I anticipate that some finders will be in groups where not everyone has a Wherigo device, so I wanted to make it clear that you don't have to unlock the cartridge with the completion code in order to log a find on the geocache.

 

puritoz

[AZcachemeister]

None of the (few) Wherigo caches I have done have mentioned anything about a code needed to log the find (on the cache). As a matter of fact, I don't recall getting any 'code' to log the cartridge on any of them either.

[+Redfist]

None of the (few) Wherigo caches I have done have mentioned anything about a code needed to log the find (on the cache). As a matter of fact, I don't recall getting any 'code' to log the cartridge on any of them either.

 

I display the code at the end of my Wherigo, but I don't "require" it. I display it because I know some people WANT to log their Wherigo finds on Wherigo.com. I didn't want to mess up that experience for cachers. As long as the log is signed, I'm fine w/ people logging a Found on geocaching.com.

 

The primary reason is as stated above. I can imagine a group where only a subset have equipment that runs Wherigo cartridges. I don't want the other members of that group to miss out on the fun.

[+palmetto]

you need a Wherigo completion code to log it in on the Wherigo site, but on Geocaching.com, requiring that to "log the find" would be an ALR

 

Agreed about a completion code for logging a find on Geocaching.com being an ALR.

 

Few Wherigo owners write a completion code line into their carts, and if they do, they don't know what the code is, so there's no point in asking people to "email the code" to the cart owner (I have seen this once on a Wherigo). A code can be shared, ie, if I finish a cart and get a completion code, I can send it to you, and you log the cart complete as "with palmetto".

 

If the author uses the correct syntax, a completion code is uniquely generated for each download of the cartridge. It can then be used at Wherigo.com to mark the cartridge "complete". This assuming that they also created a point in the cartridge where it is complete.

Edited October 1, 2011 by palmetto

[+GeoBain]

What is this Wherigo you speak of?

[+tozainamboku]

you need a Wherigo completion code to log it in on the Wherigo site, but on Geocaching.com, requiring that to "log the find" would be an ALR

 

Agreed about a completion code for logging a find on Geocaching.com being an ALR.

 

Few Wherigo owners write a completion code line into their carts, and if they do, they don't know what the code is, so there's no point in asking people to "email the code" to the cart owner (I have seen this once on a Wherigo). A code can be shared, ie, if I finish a cart and get a completion code, I can send it to you, and you log the cart complete as "with palmetto".

 

If the author uses the correct syntax, a completion code is uniquely generated for each download of the cartridge. It can then be used at Wherigo.com to mark the cartridge "complete". This assuming that they also created a point in the cartridge where it is complete.

It should be noted that there are two ways to complete a cartridge on Wherigo.com. One is to enter the completion code for the cartridge, the other is to save the game at the end of the game when the cartridge has been marked complete, and upload the saved game to Wherigo.com. Many cartridges don't display the completion code and so the only way to complete (or unlock) these cartridges is by uploading the saved file.

 

The completion code is unique for each player, so completion codes cannot be shared. However, you can use someone else's completion code if you enter both the completion and the player name. I suppose this was done for when several people share a device. Then they can all log it complete using the same code.

 

The whole issue with completing/unlocking cartridges is a little confusing. Even why they call it unlock is a mystery (though perhaps it has some meaning to video gamers).

 

What I'm trying to come to grips with is a reviewer (palmetto) stating requiring a completion code to log a Wherigo cache on Geocaching.com would be an ALR while a Groundspeak Lackey (MissJenn) has said a Wherigo cache owner can continue to require a completion code. This may be an interesting thread after all.

[+t4e]

well that is interesting indeed

 

the reason i asked is because i came across a listing that requires the completion code to be emailed to the CO in accordance with the Grounndspeak rules for allowable ALR's

 

since i figured its an ALR and to my knowledge only challenge caches are allowed such ALR, i went on a search...there is absolutely nothing to the effect what Ms Jenn has indicated, neither on GC.com nor on Wherigo website

 

i had to do a google search, that took me to a UK forum from 2 years ago that had the link to the thread about the updated guidelines

 

if this is a valid requirement for logging Wherigo i suggest its added to the Guidelines, how is one supposed to be aware of something that its not in the Guidelines?

 

on a different note i honestly don;t even see what the point of such a requirement is, if someone wants to cheat they can play the cartridge in an emulator

Edited October 2, 2011 by t4e

[+geodarts]

on a different note i honestly don;t even see what the point of such a requirement is, if someone wants to cheat they can play the cartridge in an emulator

 

Not necessarily, since there are ways to block the emulator and create cartridges that actually have to be played in the field. But I agree that I do not see the point. The first Wherigo I encountered that used a completion code had such small zones that my gpsr kept bouncing out and losing the final screen. The second Wherigo code I wrote down, but got home and either could not read my writing or switched something around. I do not mind uploading a cartridge to the Wherigo site if it is simply marked as completed and saved. But codes proved too much of a bother. I do not use them on the whereigos I created (and am creating), and luckily no CO has asked me for one.

[+t4e]

on a different note i honestly don;t even see what the point of such a requirement is, if someone wants to cheat they can play the cartridge in an emulator

 

Not necessarily, since there are ways to block the emulator and create cartridges that actually have to be played in the field.

 

 

i will just say that you're wrong to believe that

 

anyway, the fun is completing the cartridge as its intended

a well done one can be a lot of fun

[+geodarts]

anyway, the fun is completing the cartridge as its intended

a well done one can be a lot of fun

 

I have to admit that I have not tried to get around any blocks and have not tried to impose any blocks on my own wherigos. If somebody wants to use an emulator to try to find Bigfoot, they are going to take a six mile hike in any event and may or may not be successful at the end - or if they want to find their away around the town of the 10th Baron with an emulator they can do it, but some of the answers will be more fun to get on site. As you point out, the cartridge will take you places the emulator does not. Which is why I do no worry about completion codes.

Edited October 2, 2011 by geodarts

[+tango501]

I have/had several Wherigo Caches, and have never demanded a log entry/completion code/unlock (whatever you call it) on the Wherigo site, due to the reasons mentioned above. Plus around my area, many folks do them in small groups. Someone has the right equipment and everyone else shares in the fun. Plus I never code in the "display completion code" in my Cartridges, so it would be more work than is worthwhile trying to share the completed Cartridge.

 

I like folks to Find my caches, rather than jumping through a bunch of contrived hoops.

 

Totally agree about finding rather than a bunch of hoops

 

I too have had issues with getting a correct completion code. I try to log

on WIG site as I think it gives the WIG writer a pat on the back.

[+t4e]

well perhaps someone from Groundspeak can clarify this for us

[+Too Tall John]

in the interest of not bumping a 2 year old thread i am starting a new one, and i am doing so in the Geocaching Topics as opposed to Wherigo section because that's where the original thread is

Also, a Wherigo cache owner can continue to require a completion code.

 

(edited to specify a Wherigo detail)

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=218388&st=0

 

can someone be so kind and show me where in the Guidelines or KB article is the exception for the Wherigo ALR?

 

i searched high and low and unless i'm blind i can't find it except in the thread i linked, which is not even pinned

Any challenge cache can:

require the cacher to meet a reasonable Geocaching-, Waymarking- or Wherigo-related qualification.

The completion code is a Wherigo-related qualification.

 

A Wherigo cache that requires a Wherigo-related challenge might be better classified as a challenge cache, but the guidelines specify:

If a cartridge is used as a requirement to find a geocache, it is considered a Wherigo cache, regardless of whether it also has a puzzle or multi-cache element.

Plus, MissJenn says.

[+lamoracke]

I do think the "challenge cache" guideline is apples and Wherigo completion codes are oranges. Getting a Wherigo completion code does not sound like a "challenge cache" to me.

[+t4e]

in the interest of not bumping a 2 year old thread i am starting a new one, and i am doing so in the Geocaching Topics as opposed to Wherigo section because that's where the original thread is

Also, a Wherigo cache owner can continue to require a completion code.

 

(edited to specify a Wherigo detail)

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=218388&st=0

 

can someone be so kind and show me where in the Guidelines or KB article is the exception for the Wherigo ALR?

 

i searched high and low and unless i'm blind i can't find it except in the thread i linked, which is not even pinned

Any challenge cache can:

require the cacher to meet a reasonable Geocaching-, Waymarking- or Wherigo-related qualification.

The completion code is a Wherigo-related qualification.

 

A Wherigo cache that requires a Wherigo-related challenge might be better classified as a challenge cache, but the guidelines specify:

If a cartridge is used as a requirement to find a geocache, it is considered a Wherigo cache, regardless of whether it also has a puzzle or multi-cache element.

Plus, MissJenn says.

 

a totally unrelated reply, what does Wherigo have to do with Challenge Caches?

perhaps you want to read my question again

 

the fact that MissJenn said is quite irrelevant because what she said is buried in the "archives"...read again how i came across that post

 

if its still true that statement should be in the Guidelines, its neither here on GC nor on Wherigo site

Edited October 3, 2011 by t4e

[+Tequila]

 

the fact that MissJenn said is quite irrelevant because what she said is buried in the "archives"...read again how i came across that post

 

if its still true that statement should be in the Guidelines, its neither here on GC nor on Wherigo site

 

Have you reported this to Groundspeak (contact@geocaching.com)or posted it to the Feedback suggestion where it will be brought to the attention of the appropriate people? I would think either would be more productive in terms of getting your question answered/resolved.

 

.

[+Keith Watson]

Out of all the Wherigo's I have done, I think I have entered the code once. I only use the Wherigo site to host mu Wherigo's. The first Wherigo I created I had to add the code to the end because of persistent complaints from a single cacher that they couldn't mark it as complete on the Wherigo site. I gave in rather than listening to the complaining.

 

As for completing a Wherigo from the couch, that is easy. Well kind of with with the right tools. I use a pocket PC and a note book. On the note book I run a GPS emulator that simulates a real GPS. I connect the note book to the pocket PC via blue tooth and the Wherigo player on the pocket PC thinks it is a real blue tooth GPS. Once that is running I can change the date and time on the pocket PC and the GPS emulator along with altitude, lat, lon, heading, speed, position and signal quality for each satellite, fix type and quality, etc. I write the application my self for testing GPS applications so I can control everything and there is no way any software trap in a Wherigo can tell the difference. It came in handy a few years ago when several people sent me a Wherigo they had downloaded because they suspected the creator had designed the Wherigo to punish specific cachers by making them walk many more km's than everyone else.

 

Personally my geocaching site of choice is geocaching.com I should not have to use another website to log a find on a cache listed on geocaching.com so I see any requirement past signing the log as an ALR. The fact that you can't find mention of it in the guidelines, I would say that indicates that Groundspeak agrees.

[+fizzymagic]

We don't do completion codes; we usually have 3 or more different devices running the cartridge simultaneously in order to get the cartridges even work at all. Entering the code seems like too much extra work. I'd think that signing the log would be adequate.

[+t4e]

 

the fact that MissJenn said is quite irrelevant because what she said is buried in the "archives"...read again how i came across that post

 

if its still true that statement should be in the Guidelines, its neither here on GC nor on Wherigo site

 

Have you reported this to Groundspeak (contact@geocaching.com)or posted it to the Feedback suggestion where it will be brought to the attention of the appropriate people? I would think either would be more productive in terms of getting your question answered/resolved.

 

.

 

posting on the feedback will only generate another "I have added this to our internal queue for review."...i think that internal queue is long enough to circle the globe a few times

 

contacting them is my next planned step, even though i am not quite sure if its going to produce any results

 

have you any idea how many times and how long has it been since they've been asked to change the wording in the TB instructions?...one meager word, how hard can it be?

 

Step 3. Found it? Log it!

 

Once you reach the Travel Bug listing, you will need to write a log to let the owner know that you found it. By logging the find you are also 'grabbing' the Travel Bug and putting it in your account's online inventory. This will ultimately allow you to drop the Travel Bug in another cache.

 

If the Travel Bug is listed as being in a cache, you will have two options, retrieving it or grabbing it. If you took it from the cache in which it is listed, choose to retrieve it. If you took the Travel Bug from elsewhere, choose to grab it. Both logs require the tracking number, so keep the tracking number handy for the Bug you plan to log.

 

the "grabbing" in the first paragraph is extremely confusing to someone new that tries to learn how to log them, even though in the next paragraph it goes on to explain it better one has to realize that most people are selective readers and will think that that first paragraph gave them what they needed

 

only last weekend i had to explain to a new cacher the difference between "grab" and "retrieve"

 

yes i know its off topic and only tangentially related to the discussion

[+Too Tall John]

a totally unrelated reply, what does Wherigo have to do with Challenge Caches?

perhaps you want to read my question again

No, you need to reread my response. Let me restate it:

 

Requiring a completion code is an ALR. ALRs are allowed in challenge caches, if the ALR is related to Caching, Waymarking or Wherigo. A cache that has such an ALR as requiring a Wherigo completion code would have to be listed as an Unknown Cache, except that the guidelines require any cache that uses a Wherigo Cartridge be listed as a Wherigo Cache, even if it has elements of other cache types included.

[+tozainamboku]

a totally unrelated reply, what does Wherigo have to do with Challenge Caches?

perhaps you want to read my question again

No, you need to reread my response. Let me restate it:

 

Requiring a completion code is an ALR. ALRs are allowed in challenge caches, if the ALR is related to Caching, Waymarking or Wherigo. A cache that has such an ALR as requiring a Wherigo completion code would have to be listed as an Unknown Cache, except that the guidelines require any cache that uses a Wherigo Cartridge be listed as a Wherigo Cache, even if it has elements of other cache types included.

There is a problem with this argument. You can have a challenge cache that requires you to complete a Wherigo cartridge, but you probably can't have challenge cache to complete a specific Wherigo cartridge - based on the restriction that requiring cachers to find an explicit list of caches (rather than a broader category of caches) will likely prevent the challenge from being published. Wherigo caches that require the completion code for Wherigo cartridge associated with the cache are requiring the completion of a specific cartridge. (I know it says caches, so perhaps it doesn't apply to Wherigos, but that wouldn't make much sense. But then, who says the guidelines have to make sense.)

[+GeoGeeBee]

It should be noted that there are two ways to complete a cartridge on Wherigo.com.

 

It should also be noted that neither method actually works. At least, I've never gotten any of them to work.

[+fizzymagic]

It should be noted that there are two ways to complete a cartridge on Wherigo.com.

It should also be noted that neither method actually works. At least, I've never gotten any of them to work.

I got one to work once. But lately I don't even try.

[+Tequila]

It should be noted that there are two ways to complete a cartridge on Wherigo.com.

 

It should also be noted that neither method actually works. At least, I've never gotten any of them to work.

 

According to your profile, you have only done 1 Wherigo. That is hardly a wholesale condemnation of the methods.

 

I have completed 36 Wherigos and have never had a problem either uploading the completed cartridge or entering the completion code.

 

 

.

[+Keith Watson]

Is there a specific cache you hare having problems with? Have you tried contacting the cache owner to see if you can log a find without a completion code?

[+t4e]

Is there a specific cache you hare having problems with? Have you tried contacting the cache owner to see if you can log a find without a completion code?

 

i will assume the question is aimed at me

 

NO, i haven't contacted them...

they may allow us to log it but the point is that i want to know if such a requirement is valid

if it isn't it should be removed from the description for the benefit of those that do not read the forums and if it is valid than it should be added to the Guidelines

[+Tequila]

 

....if it isn't it should be removed from the description for the benefit of those that do not read the forums and if it is valid than it should be added to the Guidelines....

 

 

Hence my recommendation that you contact Groundspeak or Miss Jenn directly and/or create an entry in Feedback.

 

As you mention, not everyone reads these forums and there is no guarantee that anyone from Groundspeak will make note of this thread and respond/take action.

 

An email to Groundspeak will guarantee a response.

 

A Feedback entry will document it and also hopefully generate a response from Groundspeak.

 

Neither may generate a satisfactory response but at least you will have followed the process and taken the path most likely to address your question.

 

.

[+Keith Watson]

If the cache owner has several Wherigo's and not all them have the ARL on them, I would wonder what is so special about the one(s) that do. I would sign the book and log the find and if the owner demands the unlock code, upload it if you have it. If you don't have it, just say your buddies player choked when you saved the Wherigo and tried to load it again. I have had quite a few problems with that.

[+GeoGeeBee]

It should be noted that there are two ways to complete a cartridge on Wherigo.com.

 

It should also be noted that neither method actually works. At least, I've never gotten any of them to work.

 

According to your profile, you have only done 1 Wherigo. That is hardly a wholesale condemnation of the methods.

 

 

I have done 1 Wherigo cache. There are other Wherigo's that are not caches, you know.

[Clan Riffster]

If the cache owner has several Wherigo's and not all them have the ARL on them, I would wonder what is so special about the one(s) that do.

I have 5 active Wherigo caches, with at least a couple more in the planning stage. Early on in my cartridge building career, I included unlock codes because that's what the general consensus was in the Wherigo forums. I kwickly realized that doing so did little more than add another layer of complication to an already complex process, so I stopped including them. If someone finds one of my caches, my only concern is that they enjoyed the journey. Whether they log it on the Wherigo site matters not a whit to me.

 

So, at least for my Wherigos, the answer is pretty simple;

They are not any more special than the ones without the unlock code.

I just didn't know any better at the time.