Changing a Puzzle to a Multi

[C-C-C]

Here's the GC GC34G8E. The cache basically goes through the invention of Wifi. If a cacher goes to the posted coords and uses a wifi receiver they will be greeted with a SSID that is coords to the second stage. I wanted to make this a multi, the reviewer told me it needed to be a Puzzle since the First stage is not a physical container. So far no one has gone for it, and 2 people have asked me for a hint on the puzzle. I have in bold print on the cache page that you must go to the posted coords. Should I go back and ask the reviewer to reconsider the Cache Type, or is it really a puzzle?

 

Thanks

Landon

Edited September 25, 2011 by C-C-C

[+Touchstone]

I think it is consistent with how other Wireless Listings are handled, and the Reviewer made the correct call in asking you to List it as a Puzzle.

 

I think the only thing I would recommend is that you activate the "Wireless Beacon" Attribute, to make it consistent with other Listings that use similar technology.

 

Considering all the information you provide on the Listing page, I'm a bit surprised you had emails asking for help

[+Bear and Ragged]

Unknown/Puzzle is correct.

 

Given the kind of cache, I don't think you will get many visitors...

But. There are 4 watching, and someone has it Bookmarked.

 

Don't give up hope yet!

[+terrkan78]

I would consider it a puzzle. I'm assuming you go to the posted coords and do something with your wi-fi-enabled cell phone to get the coords to the second stage? If so, that right there takes it out of the regular "multi" category and puts it in a puzzle category in my opinion. (My opinion's not really what matters - just the reviewer's opinion.)

 

I don't know what SSID is and I wouldn't have a clue what to do with my phone once I got to GZ. I took a glance at cache description and it's nice and informative, but I wouldn't hunt it because I still don't know what buttons to push on my phone. That's all good (it's a 5 star after all) and I'm sure that those who do know what to do will appreciate it.

[+tozainamboku]

the reviewer told me it needed to be a Puzzle since the First stage is not a physical container.

Really? I'd like an explanation from the reviewer if this is the reason they said it had to be a puzzle. The description on the website for multi-cache includes "An offset cache (where you go to a location and get hints to the actual cache) is considered a Multi-Cache." There should be no doubt that the first stage of a multi-cache does not have to be a physical container.

 

If on the other hand, the reviewer gave the reason as this cache is a "beacon" cache because it uses the wireless signal to give a hint for the next stage and the finder of the cache must have a suitable device to receive the "beacon", then the guidelines for "beacon" caches apply. If the there is no alternative method for finding the cache, then the cache must be listed as a "mystery" type.

[Pup Patrol]

The cache type category is correct, as far as I undertand. All "wireless" or Chirp caches that I've seen have been categorized as "?" or as they are often called "Unknown".

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/cache_types.aspx

 

The "catch-all" of cache types, this form of geocache may involve complicated puzzles that you will first need to solve to determine the coordinates. Mystery/Puzzle Caches often become the staging ground for new and unique geocaches that do not fit in another category.

 

Needing to use "specialized" equipment will naturally result in fewer seekers.

[C-C-C]

I would compare it to a Night Cache, the stages of a night cche aren't physical containers but most of the ones around here are all listed as multis

[+n0k1a]

A friend of mine created the first cache of this type that we ever heard of:

 

The shining beacon on the hill (GC2HYYJ)

 

He originally wanted to list it as a multi, and was told by our reviewer that it had to be a puzzle/unknown cache. It's been out for almost a year, and has 33 finds. The wireless beacon attribute didn't even exist back then; I'll have to suggest that he add it to his cache.

 

It makes sense that a cache which requires the seeker to perform some action beyond simply reading coordinates at one stage in order to determine the location of a subsequent stage should be listed as a puzzle. There do seem to be a lot in this area which are listed as multis however, especially the ones which require reading numbers on a sign or plaque and filling in the blanks or doing calculations to determine the coords.

 

On the other hand, I can see that there is a multi aspect to it if it involves the requirement to visit more than one physical location. I've found multis with nothing to solve, and puzzles with a single physical location. But then, there are the ones which involve puzzle aspects as well as multiple physical stages. It's almost as though puzzle and multi should be additive (similar to attributes), rather than mutually exclusive cache types...

[knowschad]

I'm confused, too. I thought a Mystery cache (there is no such thing as a Puzzle cache on this site) does not have anything to find at the posted coordinates. Many multi-caches have an intitial stage that you must go to in order to get information necessary to find the next stage. This sure sounds a lot more like the 2nd situation to me than the first.

[+power69]

I don't know what SSID is and I wouldn't have a clue what to do with my phone once I got to GZ.

If your cellphone doesn't have wifi capabilities, you wouldn't see the SSID.

An example SSID would be "Starbucks free wifi" in one of their coffeehouses.

[+lamoracke]

sure looks like a puzzle to me.

 

In our area, the vast majority of the about 25 I have seen/done were listed as unknown. One was a multi, one was a LBH. (referring to Night caches here)

 

I like chirp caches, but I admit, reading puzzles that are pages long of stuff that reads like a textbook, I lose focus easily.

Edited September 26, 2011 by lamoracke

[+niraD]

I'm confused, too. I thought a Mystery cache (there is no such thing as a Puzzle cache on this site) does not have anything to find at the posted coordinates.

As a general rule, that is often true. But I've found a number of mystery/puzzle caches that have had a container or field puzzle at the posted coordinates. And Groundspeak does seem to consider caches that use wireless signals (Garmin chirp, WiFi networks, etc.) as mystery/puzzle caches, rather than as straight multi-caches.

[+power69]

Here's the GC GC34G8E. The cache basically goes through the invention of Wifi. If a cacher goes to the posted coords and uses a wifi receiver they will be greeted with a SSID that is coords to the second stage. I wanted to make this a multi, the reviewer told me it needed to be a Puzzle since the First stage is not a physical container. So far no one has gone for it, and 2 people have asked me for a hint on the puzzle. I have in bold print on the cache page that you must go to the posted coords. Should I go back and ask the reviewer to reconsider the Cache Type, or is it really a puzzle?

Nice writeup yet you don't mention bringing a wifi enabled device with you!

[+lamoracke]

I'm confused, too. I thought a Mystery cache (there is no such thing as a Puzzle cache on this site) does not have anything to find at the posted coordinates.

As a general rule, that is often true. But I've found a number of mystery/puzzle caches that have had a container or field puzzle at the posted coordinates. And Groundspeak does seem to consider caches that use wireless signals (Garmin chirp, WiFi networks, etc.) as mystery/puzzle caches, rather than as straight multi-caches.

 

I have seen chirp caches as multis before, for what its worth. Just like with most things, the line of multi vs unknown is never very clear looking at examples around one self.

[+akkatracker]

I'm confused, too. I thought a Mystery cache (there is no such thing as a Puzzle cache on this site) does not have anything to find at the posted coordinates.

As a general rule, that is often true. But I've found a number of mystery/puzzle caches that have had a container or field puzzle at the posted coordinates. And Groundspeak does seem to consider caches that use wireless signals (Garmin chirp, WiFi networks, etc.) as mystery/puzzle caches, rather than as straight multi-caches.

 

I have seen chirp caches as multis before, for what its worth. Just like with most things, the line of multi vs unknown is never very clear looking at examples around one self.

 

I read somewhere that chirps had to be classified as mysterys as they use a device that not all geocachers have

[+fizzymagic]

Should I go back and ask the reviewer to reconsider the Cache Type, or is it really a puzzle?

 

It's a puzzle. Leave it as is.

[+Don_J]

I'm confused, too. I thought a Mystery cache (there is no such thing as a Puzzle cache on this site) does not have anything to find at the posted coordinates. Many multi-caches have an intitial stage that you must go to in order to get information necessary to find the next stage. This sure sounds a lot more like the 2nd situation to me than the first.

 

This was my impression as well. The general rule of thumb has been if the listed coordinates must be visited, it is a multi. If they are simply dummy coordinates, it is an Unknown/Mystery.

 

As explained by Toz, I guess the "wireless beacon" part of the cache trumps that and makes it an Unknown/Mystery.

 

One thing I do wonder about is the idea of "special equipment". With more and more people walking around with smartphones, at what point do they become not special? Any smartphone that has the ability to connect to a wireless router has the ability to solve the first part of this cache.

[Clan Riffster]

I would compare it to a Night Cache, the stages of a night cche aren't physical containers but most of the ones around here are all listed as multis

Interesting geographic phenomenon. Local to me, night caches are mystery caches.

It wasn't until I joined these forums that I learned this was not universal.

[+dprovan]

We've covered the multi/unknown issue. But this particular cache, over and above those considerations, is without a doubt a puzzle cache because the seeker has to figure out how to get the information. I don't think I would have figured it out what to do if you hadn't explained in the OP, but if it were listed as a multi, I wouldn't even think about some fancy trick to moving on: I would have just assumed that I'd find a physical pointer at the posted coordinates. Listing it as an Unknown cache at least gives people a fighting chance, but even with that, I'd expect a little more of a nudge in the description about what to expect.

[+KBLAST]

Hey Landon!

 

We have 2 fairly new night caches in Columbus, mine and a friend of mine. The reviewer told us that we had to change it from a multi to a mystery cache. Surprised the heck out of me! It really doesn't matter that much. If I weren't worried about some of the crazy folks down there who probably signed the log but haven't posted anything yet, I might just head your way and snag that one.

[+Dud&Plato]

This topic is also of interest to our current situation. We are working on a multi cache - it has three -physical- locations as well as three physical caches. Each stage DOES require solving a puzzle to reach the next physical cache location. The guidelines as they read currently really could apply either way - to it being a mystery or a multi. Looking for some examples from around the area, and what do we see... situations that justify both.

 

So going along with original question, we present the other end. Just in case anything wasn't clear as sand already.

[AZcachemeister]

In my understanding, a cache is normally suggested to be listed as a Mystery when actually reading the cache page is necessary for finding the cache. This trumps (as was stated earlier) the multi-stage aspect for listing purposes.

 

All I can say is this does not seem to be universally applied to night-caches, but it should be since you need to know to go at night and bring your BFL.