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PQ Dates for All Washington Caches?


TheWinterTrio

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I was wondering if anyone out there has setup a series a PQs that will get all the Caches in Washington State. Not sure I'd want to pull them on a regualr basis, but would like to get a snapshot everyonce in a while and not spend hours figuring out where all the date ranges start/end to stay under the 1000 cache limit..

 

Thanks.

 

-Stephen/TWT

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I was wondering if anyone out there has setup a series a PQs that will get all the Caches in Washington State. Not sure I'd want to pull them on a regualr basis, but would like to get a snapshot everyonce in a while and not spend hours figuring out where all the date ranges start/end to stay under the 1000 cache limit..

 

Thanks.

 

-Stephen/TWT

I know of at least one cacher that does this. e-mail me directly and I will intorduce you guys. I think you might already know him...

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I query the entire state weekly (date-based) and have a GSAK database. I exclude my finds and it's still 23 queries, about 3 per day. YMMV.

Have you checked out GSAK version 8? With the API you can get another 6000 caches a day beyond the 5000 with PQ's. I don't think you can date range them. But once they are in the DB you can 'refresh' the cache data 6000 at a time/day, then a PQ to get the new caches - looks like 4 days to do it.

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I wish someday someone would sit down with me and use lots of pictures and small words and explain to me why this is a good thing. I even have a had time keeping up with Kitsap county and the whole state boggles my mind.

The issue isn't nearly as much a problem today as it was just a short couple of years ago, but when the GS servers would crash and burn there would be much wailing and nashing of the teeth and self-inflicted flagellation because the PQs were not running for the weekend. I at least had a semi-uptodate database I could use on my Topo software and continue to plan my hikes.

 

Backing up the database to run as a standalone on the laptop on the fly is also quite helpful when you're out of cell range to use one of those neato smartphone apps some folks fawn over.

 

Basically, it fits a perceived need that may or may not match yours. :)

Edited by TotemLake
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I wish someday someone would sit down with me and use lots of pictures and small words and explain to me why this is a good thing. I even have a had time keeping up with Kitsap county and the whole state boggles my mind.

My main reason is lazyness... If I'm going to go somewhere, I don't need to plan as much or load up specific areas. They are just all there, so where-ever I am (in the state), I want to see whats there. I don't have a fancy smart phone, but I do use a iTouch for paperless and a wifi hotspot if I have to hit the internet.. It's just more convienent to already have them all preloaded. My only concern is the performance hit on to 60csx with another 10k of caches in it to search through...

 

TotemLake, Thanks. I'm guessing it will still require some fiddling since we'll have different finds, but definately helpful!

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Small explanation so you understand what I have here. The naming convention is YYYYMMDD-YYYYMMDD. The triple digit is the number of caches the PQ started with so I can monitor the effectiveness of the PQ over time with the number of caches listed to the far right. I always have an open ended PQ for the latest caches to be added, plus one to update the last month's worth in case the open ended overruns the 1000 limit. Then there is the PQ that identifies the caches that were set to disabled, but not yet archived. That limits a manual manipulation to a minimum once every six months or so to check caches that are actually archived based on last GSAK update date.

 

PQ_List_By_Date.jpg

Edited by TotemLake
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Small explanation so you understand what I have here. The naming convention is YYYYMMDD-YYYYMMDD. The triple digit is the number of caches the PQ started with so I can monitor the effectiveness of the PQ over time with the number of caches listed to the far right. I always have an open ended PQ for the latest caches to be added, plus one to update the last month's worth in case the open ended overruns the 1000 limit. Then there is the PQ that identifies the caches that were set to disabled, but not yet archived. That limits a manual manipulation to a minimum once every six months or so to check caches that are actually archived based on last GSAK update date.

That looks great! Thank you very much! I had a series of 19 PQs that went out 125 miles, and I would re-do the dates every couple months (PlacedPQ macro in GSAK) to keep the number of PQs down to a minimum. This turned into 29 for me. Looks like you missed one in the list, 20100806-20100916) I also have some OR/ID/MT and BC PQs that I run on occation, so I need to keep some open space to run the extras...

 

Thanks Again!

 

-TWT

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I query the entire state weekly (date-based) and have a GSAK database. I exclude my finds and it's still 23 queries, about 3 per day. YMMV.

Have you checked out GSAK version 8? With the API you can get another 6000 caches a day beyond the 5000 with PQ's. I don't think you can date range them. But once they are in the DB you can 'refresh' the cache data 6000 at a time/day, then a PQ to get the new caches - looks like 4 days to do it.

I've played a little with it, but I don't always do the PQs everyday, so the 6000 per day might not get what I need. Something to play with and see. The big one I like is the "Check Status", so I can easily get the Archived ones status changed, and it's not counted as part of the 6000 limit. I don't think the "update logs" is included either, but I could be wrong on that one...

 

-TWT

Edited by TheWinterTrio
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I have to agree with jholly on this one, really, who needs to have every single cache in the whole state in a data base? Totem Lake, you haven't found more than five caches in a month for several years, do you really NEED to run PQ's for every cache in the state? I know you can, and there is nothing wrong with doing it, but I just really wonder why you want to... The hilkes you do surely don't get new caches along the trails enough to warrant a state wide PQ and you can always make a new one for whatever trail you are going to be walking along the night before you go.

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I have to agree with jholly on this one, really, who needs to have every single cache in the whole state in a data base? Totem Lake, you haven't found more than five caches in a month for several years, do you really NEED to run PQ's for every cache in the state? I know you can, and there is nothing wrong with doing it, but I just really wonder why you want to... The hilkes you do surely don't get new caches along the trails enough to warrant a state wide PQ and you can always make a new one for whatever trail you are going to be walking along the night before you go.

Are you indicating I should conform and play the game your way?

 

You have my reason. I don't need to justify it to you or anyone else. I play the way I play and plan the way I plan. That's the beauty of this game. One makes the game the way they want to.

Edited by TotemLake
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I have to agree with jholly on this one, really, who needs to have every single cache in the whole state in a data base? Totem Lake, you haven't found more than five caches in a month for several years, do you really NEED to run PQ's for every cache in the state? I know you can, and there is nothing wrong with doing it, but I just really wonder why you want to... The hilkes you do surely don't get new caches along the trails enough to warrant a state wide PQ and you can always make a new one for whatever trail you are going to be walking along the night before you go.

 

I'd ask in response 'why would anybody possibly CARE one way or the other' ?

 

It hurts nobody.

It's within the terms+conditions.

It gets the user some hopefully acceptable to 'them' measure of entertainment-vs-time-spent.

 

Heck, I'd like to see the results shown graphically so you could 'fly through' what was placed when+where versus time. Put up a map of the state and show the distribution of caches on a point in time. Have a slider that lets you change that date. Let you zoom into a region and play with what is displayed vs. date.

 

There are a lot of interesting things you can do with data. Many such things only need to be interesting to one person - the one who cooked up the analysis.

 

Personally I'd like to thank TL for sharing his approach.

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I have to agree with jholly on this one, really, who needs to have every single cache in the whole state in a data base? Totem Lake, you haven't found more than five caches in a month for several years, do you really NEED to run PQ's for every cache in the state? I know you can, and there is nothing wrong with doing it, but I just really wonder why you want to... The hilkes you do surely don't get new caches along the trails enough to warrant a state wide PQ and you can always make a new one for whatever trail you are going to be walking along the night before you go.

Are you indicating I should conform and play the game your way?

 

You have my reason. I don't need to justify it to you or anyone else. I play the way I play and plan the way I plan. That's the beauty of this game. One makes the game the way they want to.

 

No, no expectation of conformity and no need for justifcation. In fact, I have a great deal of respect for the way you cache even if it is not how I choose to. I wasn't meaning to be critical. I just don't understand the motivation for doing it. Is it just a data geek thing, you can and so you do? It's not necessary for the way you cache and so I am just curious why, thats all.

 

I'd ask in response 'why would anybody possibly CARE one way or the other' ?

 

There are a lot of interesting things you can do with data. Many such things only need to be interesting to one person - the one who cooked up the analysis.

 

Personally I'd like to thank TL for sharing his approach.

 

I don't CARE, perse and again, not meaning to be critical and this sounds like it IS just a data geek thing, so I guess that answers my question.

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I don't CARE, perse and again, not meaning to be critical and this sounds like it IS just a data geek thing, so I guess that answers my question.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I also query the entire state weekly for my GSAK database, and I travel to more areas and do more caching than TotemLake is able to, so it's not just a data geek thing (for me, anyway). Having the WA cache database at my fingertips means I can instantly view, sort, slice & dice, and download caches anywhere in the state without having to run PQs and wait for them to arrive or worry about my daily query limit.

 

My cache database, refreshed weekly, has been immensely helpful in planning caching trips and working on statewide challenges, such as the DeLorme, Counties, Cities and Towns, and Fire Lookouts. It's also helpful in culling caches for specific outings - hey I'd like caches along a route to Aberdeen, plus a centered search of all caches within 10 miles of the town, but subtract puzzles, 5 D/T, and those with 2 recent DNFs. Easy to pull, compile, and then download in a few minutes from my GSAK database. Can you do all that with PQs? Most of it (you can't exclude caches with recent DNFs), but it would take more time and require several queries.

 

My 2 cents.

Edited by hydnsek
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No, no expectation of conformity and no need for justifcation. In fact, I have a great deal of respect for the way you cache even if it is not how I choose to. I wasn't meaning to be critical. I just don't understand the motivation for doing it. Is it just a data geek thing, you can and so you do? It's not necessary for the way you cache and so I am just curious why, thats all.

Very well, it was answered in my post above yours. But I'll go further with this. I'll point you back to GeoWoodstock VIII when people were griping the servers were running too slow for the day's PQs because they were being slammed. GSAK allowed me to customize my GPX file on the fly without worry of server runtimes/uptimes/downtimes. I don't have to worry about targeting an area with a PQ. It's all there and easy to manipulate the way I want without further ado from my network being up or down in lock step with Groundspeak's uptime or downtime. I've been doing it this way since 2003.

 

I have a favorite saying: "Plan ahead and don't be disappointed."

 

I'm never disappointed with my results. :) My physical or mental ability to reach my goal on the other hand, can be a little disappointing.

 

I typically don't plan my hikes the day before. I'm planning them out weeks in advance sometimes even months. I look for interesting locations and then look at the surrounding area. Folks that hike with me don't just hit the caches on the trail, and IF I find something interesting off the trail, I may have it targeted to visit. I can load the entire DB into my Topo software by GSAK or by the PQs now because DeLorme made it very easy to download the 1000 waypoint PQs directly to the map. Either way, I get the whole picture, and not just a piece of it.

 

And as VDS pointed out, I do like looking at the spread of the caches without hitting limitations with the exception to my own local resources. Because the PQs are date based, I can click through the timeline. (I'll be happy to set that up VDS.) It won't be as detailed as Germany did theirs and it will be mostly active caches, but it is interesting to see.

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I don't CARE, perse and again, not meaning to be critical and this sounds like it IS just a data geek thing, so I guess that answers my question.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I also query the entire state weekly for my GSAK database, and I travel to more areas and do more caching than TotemLake is able to, so it's not just a data geek thing (for me, anyway). Having the WA cache database at my fingertips means I can instantly view, sort, slice & dice, and download caches anywhere in the state without having to run PQs and wait for them to arrive or worry about my daily query limit.

 

My cache database, refreshed weekly, has been immensely helpful in planning caching trips and working on statewide challenges, such as the DeLorme, Counties, Cities and Towns, and Fire Lookouts. It's also helpful in culling caches for specific outings - hey I'd like caches along a route to Aberdeen, plus a centered search of all caches within 10 miles of the town, but subtract puzzles, 5 D/T, and those with 2 recent DNFs. Easy to pull, compile, and then download in a few minutes from my GSAK database. Can you do all that with PQs? Most of it (you can't exclude caches with recent DNFs), but it would take more time and require several queries.

 

My 2 cents.

Good answers, but most of my searching for trips and the like is done first on line with the GS maps (one of the reasons I post so much about how bad they compared to what they were.) With the exception of DNF's most of the other can be done with PQ's. The CAR is one query, the other I would do now with GSAK. I'm not a very spur of the moment cacher, so pulling stuff a day or two ahead of time is fine. Probably all I could possibly convince myself I needed to keep up to date would be a few counties around the sound. Unless I am going on a road trip or a cache machine I really can't think why I would expend the time and effort to keep the db of caches around Spokane up to date. For stuff around the sound I have a number of predefined PQ's I run as I see the need. And really for the past few months I don't recall waiting for more than a couple minutes for a PQ. Maybe because I have such a low PQ rate, don't know. But different folks, different strokes.

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Good answers, but most of my searching for trips and the like is done first on line with the GS maps (one of the reasons I post so much about how bad they compared to what they were.) With the exception of DNF's most of the other can be done with PQ's. The CAR is one query, the other I would do now with GSAK. I'm not a very spur of the moment cacher, so pulling stuff a day or two ahead of time is fine.

Yes, I often plan ahead as well (esp for trips), and also use the online maps for my preliminary research, and find them a bit frustrating (esp when you zoom out and can no longer distinguish types). I export my GSAK databases into Streets & Trips, and I can see the entire state or just a region - and thanks to color coding, can easily distinguish my finds, hides, and different unfound types (which I color-code as traditional, multi, puzzle, events, virtual). It's proving quite helpful right now in sorting which cities and towns I need (and which I already have) for that challenge. If I have a few caches that are must-dos on a trip, being a visual person, I sometimes give them a special icon/color on my S&T map and then print it so I can see where they are in relation to everything else. That was helpful on a recent multi-state trip when I didn't want to forget some key caches along the way.

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Being the thread starter, I might as well put my .02 in as well. :) I see no reason not to. With an hour or less to setup the PQs I can save a lot of time in the future not trying to create routes or find the right radius that doesn't go over 1000 caches when I'm going outside my home area. With GSAKv8, It takes no time at all to check the box on the new PQs and it downloads and imports them all while I go and make a sandwich. I have a macro that calls a series of other macros that massages some of the data and creates a POI. A few minutes to load that in our 60csxs and Nuvi and we're all ready for where ever we end up that weekend... I'm heading to Spokane in a couple weeks and I have everything already there.

 

If I had the room to run more PQs, I'd probably do the same for Oregon and BC, thats just the kind of guy I am... :) I also prefer to use the GSAK maps or GeoSphere rather than the GC.com maps.

 

In August, I went down into Oregon for a week (Oregon Star Party in Prineville) and created a number of Cache Along a route PQs for OR and WA. Due to timing and Forest Fires, I took a totally different route than was expected on the way there and on the way back. Entering Washington on the way home, I came into areas where I didn't have anything and wasted quite a bit of time sitting on the side of the road with my iPod on the GC.com website looking up local caches (the GC app is almost useless without a gps). I ended up getting 5-10 caches on the way home, but it could have been more.... Yeah, I could have planned better and had all possible routes.. Next year when I go back down to the OSP I'll have it all (atleast the WA side) and save the time..

Edited by TheWinterTrio
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My only concern is the performance hit on to 60csx with another 10k of caches in it to search through...

The 60CSx will hold at most 1k of caches. (I've heard that the 62 will hold more.)

If you load them as POI you can get a lot more loaded...

I use GSAK to create a bunch of POI/GPI files (one per cache type). I have 25k+ caches in my 60Csx at all times..

 

I don't use the "Geocaching" feature in the 60Csx, so POI's work just fine for me. If you like that feature you will need to stay withing the 1000 waypoint limit.

Edited by TheWinterTrio
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My only concern is the performance hit on to 60csx with another 10k of caches in it to search through...

The 60CSx will hold at most 1k of caches. (I've heard that the 62 will hold more.)

If you load them as POI you can get a lot more loaded...

I use GSAK to create a bunch of POI/GPI files (one per cache type). I have 25k+ caches in my 60Csx at all times..

 

I don't use the "Geocaching" feature in the 60Csx, so POI's work just fine for me. If you like that feature you will need to stay withing the 1000 waypoint limit.

 

 

How?? I watched that you tube video and that guys GSAK doesn't look like mine. I still can't figure out how to get the rest of the GCs loaded as POIs.

 

Do more wpts decrease performance?

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My only concern is the performance hit on to 60csx with another 10k of caches in it to search through...

The 60CSx will hold at most 1k of caches. (I've heard that the 62 will hold more.)

If you load them as POI you can get a lot more loaded...

I use GSAK to create a bunch of POI/GPI files (one per cache type). I have 25k+ caches in my 60Csx at all times..

 

I don't use the "Geocaching" feature in the 60Csx, so POI's work just fine for me. If you like that feature you will need to stay withing the 1000 waypoint limit.

 

 

How?? I watched that you tube video and that guys GSAK doesn't look like mine. I still can't figure out how to get the rest of the GCs loaded as POIs.

 

Do more wpts decrease performance?

The way I do it (YMMV) is to save out the WPs as GPX files, then use Garmin's (free) POI Loader to upload the file(s) to my 60CSx, where they appear under the Custom POI icon (which doesn't show up unless you have POIs loaded). Actually, I have a POI folder on my PC, and I have three GPX files in there - Finds, Hides, and WPs (like my house) - and I point POI Loader to it, and it uploads everything in the folder to the GPSr and stores each file as a separate (selectable) database under POI.

 

No, more WPs don't decrease performance - okay, it takes longer to search 10,000 POIs than 50, but not that much longer.

Edited by hydnsek
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My only concern is the performance hit on to 60csx with another 10k of caches in it to search through...

The 60CSx will hold at most 1k of caches. (I've heard that the 62 will hold more.)

If you load them as POI you can get a lot more loaded...

I use GSAK to create a bunch of POI/GPI files (one per cache type). I have 25k+ caches in my 60Csx at all times..

 

I don't use the "Geocaching" feature in the 60Csx, so POI's work just fine for me. If you like that feature you will need to stay withing the 1000 waypoint limit.

 

 

How?? I watched that you tube video and that guys GSAK doesn't look like mine. I still can't figure out how to get the rest of the GCs loaded as POIs.

 

Do more wpts decrease performance?

The way I do it (YMMV) is to save out the WPs as GPX files, then use Garmin's (free) POI Loader to upload the file(s) to my 60CSx, where they appear under the Custom POI icon (which doesn't show up unless you have POIs loaded). Actually, I have a POI folder on my PC, and I have three GPX files in there - Finds, Hides, and WPs (like my house) - and I point POI Loader to it, and it uploads everything in the folder to the GPSr and stores each file as a separate (selectable) database under POI.

 

No, more WPs don't decrease performance - okay, it takes longer to search 10,000 POIs than 50, but not that much longer.

 

I filter the caches by different types and then use the built in GSAK Garmin POI Export instead of Garmin's POI Loader. This allows me to create the different groups I want, have custom icons and put in custom text in the description and cache names. Some of the GSAK POI macros will do the same, but I found this the easiest and quickest way for me. I have about 24 different GPI files that I just copy to the flash card in my 60Csx.

 

It took a while to setup all the scripts, but now that it's done, It takes less than 10 minutes to create all the files and then manually copy to the GPS..

 

The speed is slower for more objects, but as hydnsek said, it's not that long for 10k-20k. I did load my WA, OR and CA databases all together as a test (70k waypoints) and it took about 5-10 minutes to search for the Disneyland cache I tested with. So, I wouldn't recommend going that many, but my 25k for Washington is reasonable. I figure I'll load a couple different MicroSD cards with different states if I take a trip that covers more than one state or a huge amount of caches.

 

If you'd like more detail, let me know. This probably isn't the place to really discuss this in depth, but I can email more details.

 

Maybe it's time for WSGA to hold a GSAK class.. :) :)

Edited by TheWinterTrio
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Maybe it's time for WSGA to hold a GSAK class.. :) :)

Agreed. I hosted some GSAK classes when I was WSGA chapter rep in 2009, and it's definitely time for a repeat - three years is a generation of geocachers. :lol: I've nudged the current chapter rep, and Jester's willing, we just need to align the planets. It would also be great to have some additional presenters, cos Jester's not always available. You interested? I could do a basic class, but I'm no guru.

Edited by hydnsek
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Maybe it's time for WSGA to hold a GSAK class.. :) :)

Agreed. I hosted some GSAK classes when I was WSGA chapter rep in 2009, and it's definitely time for a repeat - three years is a generation of geocachers. :lol: I've nudged the current chapter rep, and Jester's willing, we just need to align the planets. It would also be great to have some additional presenters, cos Jester's not always available. You interested? I could do a basic class, but I'm no guru.

 

We've been caching just shy of 2 years, so we are in that new generation. :)

 

I'm no guru myself and certainly not a comfortable public speaker, but I'd be happy to share what I know...

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Maybe it's time for WSGA to hold a GSAK class.. :) :)

 

Wow, thank you for the info! I'll try it out. I have a 2g SD card (i think) in there, so I really just want an extra few thousand POIs.

Right now, with my PQs, I have about 1100 wpts, so I have to delete some (usually I delete the child wpts; probably not a good idea).

 

 

Definitely...I would attend any and all GSAK classes. Its such a steep learning curve that sometimes I don't even load up the 60. Sometimes I just take it along knowing that all I need at the NW trails.

 

In fact, I'm terrified of updating any software on it because I had a near meltdown just getting the NW trails loaded. What a nightmare that was (insert a special thanks here to Moun10bike for walking me through that) ;)

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Maybe it's time for WSGA to hold a GSAK class.. :) :)

 

Wow, thank you for the info! I'll try it out. I have a 2g SD card (i think) in there, so I really just want an extra few thousand POIs.

Right now, with my PQs, I have about 1100 wpts, so I have to delete some (usually I delete the child wpts; probably not a good idea).

 

 

Definitely...I would attend any and all GSAK classes. Its such a steep learning curve that sometimes I don't even load up the 60. Sometimes I just take it along knowing that all I need at the NW trails.

 

In fact, I'm terrified of updating any software on it because I had a near meltdown just getting the NW trails loaded. What a nightmare that was (insert a special thanks here to Moun10bike for walking me through that) ;)

 

All my GPI files together (for WA, 25k caches) are only 12Mb, so they should fit on any flash card. I don't send any logs or descriptions since the 60csx can't display them, so the files are very small. I create a separate GPX file to load into my iPod that has all the extra info...

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While we lived in Washington, we kept a DB as well... Course, that was Before the limit was raised from 500 to 1000. I don't have the dates I used, but I remember it was over 15 for Just WA... that was not including ID.. in which we had 150 miles...

 

Now in WY, we have the entire State, and 150 miles in to UT, and CO... As well as what-all we can get of ID.

 

If anyone wants Those dates, I've got them...

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A few numbers for you.

 

King county (where I work) has 4871 caches

Snohomish county (where I live) has 2465 caches

A single 1000 cache PQ from my home coords will not reach my work coords.

There are 17434 caches within 100 miles of my home in WA state (A distance that I would consider a "Day Trip")

There are 27754 caches in WA state

 

 

By pulling in the whole state, I am able to quickly sort my DB for where I will be caching or my goals for challenges. With my Magellan eXplorist, I am able to add and remove gpx files on the fly. I usually load up the counties that I will be caching in. I never have to worry about fires at Fisher Plaza or the website being slow one day.

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By pulling in the whole state, I am able to quickly sort my DB for where I will be caching or my goals for challenges. With my Magellan eXplorist, I am able to add and remove gpx files on the fly. I usually load up the counties that I will be caching in. I never have to worry about fires at Fisher Plaza or the website being slow one day.

 

Yup. I have custom queries that due to the 5-per-day limit take 6 days to run with all caches I haven't found, that aren't crazy exotic (filter out mountain climbs, scuba, boats required and events, and my ignore list).

 

Once you build your queries by date and seed your GSAK database, it takes far far less to keep it up to date since you can refresh 6000 per day with the full updates form. Other than running all the queries a couple times a year, the only sustaining maintenance is to run a query of 'all new caches in the last 30 days' query every 3-4 weeks to keep the list full, then use the 'refresh' function when I feel like it (unless I have a trip coming).

 

Since I have date-based PQs, I can jumpstart the updates by 11,000 per day by running 5,000 worth of date-based-queries, and then filtering in GSAK based on date hidden and running 6,000 worth of refreshes (although the refresh method is really slow for I guess 'bot throttling reasons).

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