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T5 rating that can be walked to


SeekerOfTheWay

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Don't change it. If you do all previous finders will have their stats changed and lose a T5 that they may be depending on for a challenge.

 

I disagree. The ratings should be an honest reflection on the difficulty of the hide/terrain. Someones challenge is irrelevant. If it was a difference of a 4.5 or a five no big deal but this looks like a 2 mile round trip on established trails. Unless there is an obstacle that isn't obvious I'd rate it a T3 tops.

 

If you wanted a paddle cache you should have placed it on one of the islands.

 

I 100% agree with GOF and Bacall. Your cache ratings should be as accurate as possible REGARDLESS of who may have used it for stat purposes. If you've used a cache for a grid challenge and the ratings have changed, tough cookies. That's part of the game.

 

As for the T5 rating? I would change it as special equipment is recommended, but not technically required. Somewhere between T3 and T4.5 sounds about right.

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But with that said, let me shake things up a bit:

 

You hide a cache that sits 6 inches below the surface of the water in the middle of a lake (Terrain=5, of course). During the winter, the lake freezes solid for about 4 months straight. a pick axe will get you to the cache in just a few minutes. What terrain rating do you give the cache? Given the risks of walking on a frozen lake, do you keep the terrain a 5?

 

Yup. You still need special equipment to get the cache.

 

I find the D/T guidelines less than crystal clear on this point, but as I parse it:

 

If you need special equipment to get to GZ, then it's a T5.

If you need special equipment to retrieve the cache once you're at GZ, then it's a D5.

 

By my reading, then, this would be T5 in summer and D5 in winter. But I'm probably wrong.

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So, all the puzzle caches I did, I never even attempted to do the riddle but rather park at the parking co-ordinates and just search. All those high difficulties should be reduced then, yes? :rolleyes:

Of course! :lol:

It's situations like yours that keep me from being to rigid in my D/T ratings. I rate them as best I can, based on the experience I had hiding it. Folks could just as easily argue that the caches I've placed on islands shouldn't be 5's because, technically, someone could swim to one, making a boat unnecessary. :unsure:

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But with that said, let me shake things up a bit:

 

You hide a cache that sits 6 inches below the surface of the water in the middle of a lake (Terrain=5, of course). During the winter, the lake freezes solid for about 4 months straight. a pick axe will get you to the cache in just a few minutes. What terrain rating do you give the cache? Given the risks of walking on a frozen lake, do you keep the terrain a 5?

 

Yup. You still need special equipment to get the cache.

 

I find the D/T guidelines less than crystal clear on this point, but as I parse it:

 

If you need special equipment to get to GZ, then it's a T5.

If you need special equipment to retrieve the cache once you're at GZ, then it's a D5.

 

By my reading, then, this would be T5 in summer and D5 in winter. But I'm probably wrong.

 

My interpretation has also been that the difficulty rating relates to locating and retrieving the cache once you're at GZ. The grey area is exposed when trying to specifically define ground zero. Typically ground zero would refer to the published coordinates but when their is a vertical component involved (like a cache high up in a tree) the cache may be easily located from the ground, but still require negotiating another 50-100 feet once you're at the published coordinates. In cases like this I think applying the difficulty to the terrain rating is more appropriate.

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I would not factor in ice walking into the terrain difficulty....I suppose I do not know your area, but I would be more afraid to walk across the ice to get a cache and almost any boat cache in your area would be under similar scenarios.

 

We have a few boat caches in the Seattle area that are 4.5 or 5 terrain that can be walked to during really dry times or really really low tides. If the vast majority of the time the cache needs a boat, I would say leave it with the high rating.

 

If one can find a low tide almost every other day or weeek and walk to it, lower it.

 

In our hypothetical scenario, it wasn't the ice walking that would keep the T5, it would be the pick axe that I mentioned and then having to chop through the ice with it. The island scenario much better reflects what I was trying to say...

 

And is much more confusing!

 

We have one on an island near us. Many of the finders have walked to it when the creek is frozen.But that is actually only for a few days a year. It is rated at five stars for terrain. About as accurate as needed because the window is so small. The normal approach available is by canoe or kayak.

 

Only a few days a year?!?!?! Well, I guess you do live South of me, must be warmer down there. :o Now that you mention that, one of the major Canoe/Kayak placers in our area (and major there would be like 5 of them) refuses to make them 5 star terrain because he says they can be walked to in the winter. At least one person has argued the point, to no avail. Not me, of course, what do I care? :)

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I use special equipment to get to ALL caches by driving a motor vehicle. Then I use special equipment - reading glasses and also special equipment a pen or pencil to fill in the logs. I also travel in special equipment - called clothes. I have placed two Island caches that once you get to the island are a walk in the park. I only rated them 1 1/2 star terrain because most wheelchairs don't have all terrain tires on them . :lol:

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My interpretation has also been that the difficulty rating relates to locating and retrieving the cache once you're at GZ. The grey area is exposed when trying to specifically define ground zero. Typically ground zero would refer to the published coordinates but when their is a vertical component involved (like a cache high up in a tree) the cache may be easily located from the ground, but still require negotiating another 50-100 feet once you're at the published coordinates. In cases like this I think applying the difficulty to the terrain rating is more appropriate.
I've seen "elevated" caches where the owner expected seekers to climb. I think that should be reflected in high terrain ratings.

 

I've also seen "elevated" caches where the owner expected seekers to remain standing on the ground, and to use special equipment to retrieve/replace the cache. I think that should be reflected in high difficulty ratings.

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My interpretation has also been that the difficulty rating relates to locating and retrieving the cache once you're at GZ. The grey area is exposed when trying to specifically define ground zero. Typically ground zero would refer to the published coordinates but when their is a vertical component involved (like a cache high up in a tree) the cache may be easily located from the ground, but still require negotiating another 50-100 feet once you're at the published coordinates. In cases like this I think applying the difficulty to the terrain rating is more appropriate.
I've seen "elevated" caches where the owner expected seekers to climb. I think that should be reflected in high terrain ratings.

 

I've also seen "elevated" caches where the owner expected seekers to remain standing on the ground, and to use special equipment to retrieve/replace the cache. I think that should be reflected in high difficulty ratings.

 

That makes sense to me too.

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