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Don't Be Creepy! Ask for Permission to hide caches!


TeamLiMi
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Someone yesterday in our town planted a geocache and before they could even list it. The police called in a Marine bomb squad to destroy it. I have never been a fan of Pipe Bomb style caches, but when you look all sketchy planting it, and you didn't tell anyone, you are just asking for this to happen. Now I have to stress about all the caches I hid in places that have businesses nearby that won't like the looks of people skulking around. Hopefully the town doesn't go on this site and look them all up and muggle them all.

 

Here is a link to the story

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How often this happens to me. I was just thinking about Bomb Squads and geocaches and then I come to the forums and see this thread...

 

Bomb Squads being called for geocaching is not that unusal. In fact, there used to be a bookamrk that linked caches where the police had been called about a cache. I wonder if it is still being maintained...

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“Something that looks like a pipe bomb, close enough that even a military EOD team felt there was cause for concern, is probably not what you want to use,” Britt said in a statement. “I hope anybody playing this game will use appropriate containers which are clearly marked as ‘geocache’ on the outside.”

 

haha - like marking geocache on the outside would make a difference on something that looks like a bomb. I place most my caches in locations that one will not be seen looking for it. I also use clear containers with no camo now, so there is no mistake. I do miss my nice camo paint jobs as on the ones I first hid. Better to be safe then sorry as the old saying goes.

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Someone yesterday in our town planted a geocache and before they could even list it. The police called in a Marine bomb squad to destroy it. I have never been a fan of Pipe Bomb style caches, but when you look all sketchy planting it, and you didn't tell anyone, you are just asking for this to happen. Now I have to stress about all the caches I hid in places that have businesses nearby that won't like the looks of people skulking around. Hopefully the town doesn't go on this site and look them all up and muggle them all.

 

Here is a link to the story

 

I'm not suggesting that permission should not be obtained before placing a cache, but in this instance I'm not sure if it would make a difference. I suspect that in most cases when permission is obtained to place a cache, the person granting permission doesn't inform many others about the existence of the cache. In the case of a cache located on the property of a small business it might be possible to inform all the current employees but it would be extremely unlikely that anyone other that a small group of people would know about it. If the person placing the cache and appears to be acting suspicious while hiding an object that looks like a pipe, the last thing someone witnessing the act is going to think is "I wonder if they have permission?"

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That was pretty big for an LPC container at 7 inches long. Rather a bad container to use however since it looked like it had a triggering device. And it wasn't actually a new placement either, it had been there since 2010. Apparently the last person who stamped the log was the first one to have been noticed acting "suspiciously" by the nearby business owner. The followup has an interesting bit of info for us though:

"Authorities did consider that the item could have been a “geocache” container, but no corresponding GPS coordinates for the item could be found on the geocache web site."

 

So they actually checked the website before blowing it up. :)

 

Of course, had the Letterbox placer gotten permission, this could have been avoided. (Though I suppose, in theory at least, he/she might have gotten permission from people who worked there at the time but don't work there anymore and who didn't mention the letterbox to their replacements.)

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it. Here is a better one that is regularly updated. EDIT: By the way, your link is bad, but I know which one you meant, by Rupert. It's a dead bookmark list.

 

I didn't see the letterbox update at first, but now I see it. :)

 

In my area at least, letterboxers are even bigger violators of placing them on private property without permission, what with their being no review process. And there was an LPC letterbox in my town in 2007, although I just looked, and I see it's been retired.

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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In any case, asking permission does not guarantee that a Geocacher going after an urban hide won't be noticed by someone who will alert the authorities that suspicious behavior was afoot.

 

Sadly, that is very true. Once, my better half, was dressed in a mechanics uniform, driving a work van, and taking our daughter home from school. They stopped at a restaurant and saw a baby bird that fell from the nest. They put the bird back and went into the establishment. Someone promptly called the police thinking our daughter had been lured by the mechanic in the work van. She was quite distressed at being interviewed by the police.

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it. Here is a better one that is regularly updated.

 

Speaking of updates, I see no update to the story that it was a letterbox, just an anonymous comment by someone calling herself "Kristin", who claims it was a letterbox, and not a Geocache. Not confirmed by any means.

 

In my area at least, letterboxers are even bigger violators of placing them on private property without permission, what with their being no review process. And there was an LPC letterbox in my town in 2007, although I just looked, and I see it's been retired.

 

The update was at the top of the page with a link. Here is a direct link to it's page:

http://outerbanksvoice.com/kill-devil-hills-police-followup-statement/

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it. Here is a better one that is regularly updated.

 

Speaking of updates, I see no update to the story that it was a letterbox, just an anonymous comment by someone calling herself "Kristin", who claims it was a letterbox, and not a Geocache. Not confirmed by any means.

 

In my area at least, letterboxers are even bigger violators of placing them on private property without permission, what with their being no review process. And there was an LPC letterbox in my town in 2007, although I just looked, and I see it's been retired.

 

The update was at the top of the page with a link. Here is a direct link to it's page:

http://outerbanksvoice.com/kill-devil-hills-police-followup-statement/

 

Dang, didn't edit my post fast enough. Now I look like a putz. Won't be the first time. :ph34r:

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it.

 

Soooooo.... who was the memeber that was banned? :unsure:

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it.

 

Soooooo.... who was the memeber that was banned? :unsure:

 

Questmaster from SW Pa. Not banned for making the now abandoned bookmark list owned by Rupert, but for other stuff. Like for writing anti-micro poems based on Dr. Seuss and stuff. :o

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it.

 

Soooooo.... who was the memeber that was banned? :unsure:

 

Questmaster from SW Pa. Not banned for making the now abandoned bookmark list owned by Rupert, but for other stuff. Like for writing anti-micro poems based on Dr. Seuss and stuff. :o

 

OMG! How anti-social of him! I'm sure there was more to it. Possibly words with lackeys or volunteers.

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it. Here is a better one that is regularly updated. EDIT: By the way, your link is bad, but I know which one you meant, by Rupert. It's a dead bookmark list.

 

I didn't see the letterbox update at first, but now I see it. :)

 

In my area at least, letterboxers are even bigger violators of placing them on private property without permission, what with their being no review process. And there was an LPC letterbox in my town in 2007, although I just looked, and I see it's been retired.

 

Hmmm. Interesting. Letterboxers are bigger violators? I have yet to find a letterbox in my area that was hidden in a lamppost or one that was shaped like a pipe bomb. I'm not saying they don't exist (obviously ONE of them did) but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

As for there being no review process, so what? If the review process worked as well as you seem to think in this game, LPC's, geocaches designed as pipe bombs, and those placed on private property wouldn't even get published let alone wait until they're blown up or someone complains.

 

The GC reviewers do NOT ask what your cache looks like. They do NOT require that you provide proof that the land is public and even if they google your coordinates and KNOW that your cache is in a lamppost on Wal-Mart property, they will STILL publish it. The only time your cache is usually denied is when it contains a reference to a business, has an agenda, is too close to another cache or railroad tracks, or placed in a state park where permission is KNOWN to be required.

 

The fact remains that in these types of games, geocachers are the worst when it comes to private property caches. Stores/businesses/parking lots/hospitals/dumpsters are NOT public property and hardly ever get permission to place them in those areas. They just hope that their cache isn't caught by the owner.

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The fact remains that in these types of games, geocachers are the worst when it comes to private property caches. Stores/businesses/parking lots/hospitals/dumpsters are NOT public property and hardly ever get permission to place them in those areas. They just hope that their cache isn't caught by the owner.

 

Getting caught by the owner is often not the problem. Getting caught by someone that doesn't know that there is a geocache at a specific location, and that the container is innocuous is the problem. As AZCacheMeister said in post #12 (and what I was trying to say in post #10) "asking permission does not guarantee that a Geocacher going after an urban hide won't be noticed by someone who will alert the authorities that suspicious behavior was afoot."

 

Even when permission *is* obtained to place a cache in a business parking lot, anyone else that happens to be in the parking lot when the cache is being placed (or found and replaced) might potentially inform authorities if it appears that someone is acting suspicious. They're not going to try and contact that property owner. They're just going to call the cops. If the LEO which arrives on the scene doesn't know about cache it can quickly escalate to a visit by the bomb squad.

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it. Here is a better one that is regularly updated. EDIT: By the way, your link is bad, but I know which one you meant, by Rupert. It's a dead bookmark list.

 

I didn't see the letterbox update at first, but now I see it. :)

 

In my area at least, letterboxers are even bigger violators of placing them on private property without permission, what with their being no review process. And there was an LPC letterbox in my town in 2007, although I just looked, and I see it's been retired.

 

Hmmm. Interesting. Letterboxers are bigger violators? I have yet to find a letterbox in my area that was hidden in a lamppost or one that was shaped like a pipe bomb. I'm not saying they don't exist (obviously ONE of them did) but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

As for there being no review process, so what? If the review process worked as well as you seem to think in this game, LPC's, geocaches designed as pipe bombs, and those placed on private property wouldn't even get published let alone wait until they're blown up or someone complains.

 

The GC reviewers do NOT ask what your cache looks like. They do NOT require that you provide proof that the land is public and even if they google your coordinates and KNOW that your cache is in a lamppost on Wal-Mart property, they will STILL publish it. The only time your cache is usually denied is when it contains a reference to a business, has an agenda, is too close to another cache or railroad tracks, or placed in a state park where permission is KNOWN to be required.

 

The fact remains that in these types of games, geocachers are the worst when it comes to private property caches. Stores/businesses/parking lots/hospitals/dumpsters are NOT public property and hardly ever get permission to place them in those areas. They just hope that their cache isn't caught by the owner.

 

I suppose I didn't think I'd be questioned by a letterboxer!! And keep in mind I live in a suburban area. So that being said, I guess my reason for saying they are "bigger violators" is because there is no review process. For one thing, I am shocked by this 11 box pub crawl (an cooperative effort with several planters). Eight of the 11 obviously have no permission, and a couple of these things are velcroed to the backs of dart machines and under tables inside of Pubs!! (Read the clues; if they had permission to velcro it to the dart board or stash it under a rock in the parking lot, you think they'd say so).

 

And whatever you do, don't get me wrong. I'm one of the radicals who have been ranting against this websites "look the other way" policy for years. And I ignore all parking lot caches. Yes, by shear volume, we are much bigger violators. So consider me corrected there. :P

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it. Here is a better one that is regularly updated. EDIT: By the way, your link is bad, but I know which one you meant, by Rupert. It's a dead bookmark list.

 

I didn't see the letterbox update at first, but now I see it. :)

 

In my area at least, letterboxers are even bigger violators of placing them on private property without permission, what with their being no review process. And there was an LPC letterbox in my town in 2007, although I just looked, and I see it's been retired.

 

Hmmm. Interesting. Letterboxers are bigger violators? I have yet to find a letterbox in my area that was hidden in a lamppost or one that was shaped like a pipe bomb. I'm not saying they don't exist (obviously ONE of them did) but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

As for there being no review process, so what? If the review process worked as well as you seem to think in this game, LPC's, geocaches designed as pipe bombs, and those placed on private property wouldn't even get published let alone wait until they're blown up or someone complains.

 

The GC reviewers do NOT ask what your cache looks like. They do NOT require that you provide proof that the land is public and even if they google your coordinates and KNOW that your cache is in a lamppost on Wal-Mart property, they will STILL publish it. The only time your cache is usually denied is when it contains a reference to a business, has an agenda, is too close to another cache or railroad tracks, or placed in a state park where permission is KNOWN to be required.

 

The fact remains that in these types of games, geocachers are the worst when it comes to private property caches. Stores/businesses/parking lots/hospitals/dumpsters are NOT public property and hardly ever get permission to place them in those areas. They just hope that their cache isn't caught by the owner.

 

I suppose I didn't think I'd be questioned by a letterboxer!! And keep in mind I live in a suburban area. So that being said, I guess my reason for saying they are "bigger violators" is because there is no review process. For one thing, I am shocked by this 11 box pub crawl (an cooperative effort with several planters). Eight of the 11 obviously have no permission, and a couple of these things are velcroed to the backs of dart machines and under tables inside of Pubs!! (Read the clues; if they had permission to velcro it to the dart board or stash it under a rock in the parking lot, you think they'd say so).

 

And whatever you do, don't get me wrong. I'm one of the radicals who have been ranting against this websites "look the other way" policy for years. And I ignore all parking lot caches. Yes, by shear volume, we are much bigger violators. So consider me corrected there. :P

 

Well...ok...just this once I won't spank you. :lol:

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Found it! The Bookmark list is Called "Bomb Scares and other fun stuff" Doesn't look like it is maintained anymore. Newest cache is from 2007 and most of the caches on it have been archived for obvious reasons.

 

That bookmark list was originally created by a now banned member, and he let someone adopt it who dropped the ball, and abandoned it. Here is a better one that is regularly updated. EDIT: By the way, your link is bad, but I know which one you meant, by Rupert. It's a dead bookmark list.

 

I didn't see the letterbox update at first, but now I see it. :)

 

In my area at least, letterboxers are even bigger violators of placing them on private property without permission, what with their being no review process. And there was an LPC letterbox in my town in 2007, although I just looked, and I see it's been retired.

 

Hmmm. Interesting. Letterboxers are bigger violators? I have yet to find a letterbox in my area that was hidden in a lamppost or one that was shaped like a pipe bomb. I'm not saying they don't exist (obviously ONE of them did) but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

As for there being no review process, so what? If the review process worked as well as you seem to think in this game, LPC's, geocaches designed as pipe bombs, and those placed on private property wouldn't even get published let alone wait until they're blown up or someone complains.

 

The GC reviewers do NOT ask what your cache looks like. They do NOT require that you provide proof that the land is public and even if they google your coordinates and KNOW that your cache is in a lamppost on Wal-Mart property, they will STILL publish it. The only time your cache is usually denied is when it contains a reference to a business, has an agenda, is too close to another cache or railroad tracks, or placed in a state park where permission is KNOWN to be required.

 

The fact remains that in these types of games, geocachers are the worst when it comes to private property caches. Stores/businesses/parking lots/hospitals/dumpsters are NOT public property and hardly ever get permission to place them in those areas. They just hope that their cache isn't caught by the owner.

 

I suppose I didn't think I'd be questioned by a letterboxer!! And keep in mind I live in a suburban area. So that being said, I guess my reason for saying they are "bigger violators" is because there is no review process. For one thing, I am shocked by this 11 box pub crawl (an cooperative effort with several planters). Eight of the 11 obviously have no permission, and a couple of these things are velcroed to the backs of dart machines and under tables inside of Pubs!! (Read the clues; if they had permission to velcro it to the dart board or stash it under a rock in the parking lot, you think they'd say so).

 

And whatever you do, don't get me wrong. I'm one of the radicals who have been ranting against this websites "look the other way" policy for years. And I ignore all parking lot caches. Yes, by shear volume, we are much bigger violators. So consider me corrected there. :P

 

Not a letterboxer, but I was curious enough to take a look at the clues for that series, and while I don't know about all of them, some of them do sound like they have permission. Though the idea of putting them inside a bar/pub seems a little odd. :)

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Not a letterboxer, but I was curious enough to take a look at the clues for that series, and while I don't know about all of them, some of them do sound like they have permission. Though the idea of putting them inside a bar/pub seems a little odd. :)

 

Most of them do have permission. If you have a hand carved stamp, the last thing that you want is for the box to go missing by an irate owner. Letterboxers just don't seem to think of putting the permissions with the clues because it's assumed that you have done that.

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Like for writing anti-micro poems based on Dr. Seuss and stuff. :o

 

Seriously? That sounds like standard OT fare. :blink:

 

I'm not going there. The poem can be found. B)

 

start here: http://forums.Ground...topic=59513&hl=

 

Dang it. Could have saved myself a lot of time if I had checked back here first. LOL

 

haha QM is a genius, his writings are hilarious, it is one the stains on this place that his account is locked and banned.

Edited by Frank Broughton
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Like for writing anti-micro poems based on Dr. Seuss and stuff. :o

 

Seriously? That sounds like standard OT fare. :blink:

 

I'm not going there. The poem can be found. B)

 

start here: http://forums.Ground...topic=59513&hl=

 

Dang it. Could have saved myself a lot of time if I had checked back here first. LOL

 

haha QM is a genius, his writings are hilarious, it is one the stains on this place that his account is locked and banned.

 

Well, from what I saw his eventual perma ban came about much like Cav Scout's; refusal to just chill until his temp ban played out. But admittedly, I am going on what I found in a short perusal of his posts.

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Like for writing anti-micro poems based on Dr. Seuss and stuff. :o

 

Seriously? That sounds like standard OT fare. :blink:

 

I'm not going there. The poem can be found. B)

 

start here: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=59513&hl=

 

Ah yes, what could very well be the first ever "lame micro" thread, started way back in November 2003, like 3 months after I started. This is some seriously historical stuff here. :laughing:

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Like for writing anti-micro poems based on Dr. Seuss and stuff. :o

 

Seriously? That sounds like standard OT fare. :blink:

 

I'm not going there. The poem can be found. B)

 

start here: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=59513&hl=

 

Classic

 

Ah yes, what could very well be the first ever "lame micro" thread, started way back in November 2003, like 3 months after I started. This is some seriously historical stuff here. :laughing:

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Like for writing anti-micro poems based on Dr. Seuss and stuff. :o

 

Seriously? That sounds like standard OT fare. :blink:

 

I'm not going there. The poem can be found. B)

 

start here: http://forums.Ground...topic=59513&hl=

 

Classic

 

Ah yes, what could very well be the first ever "lame micro" thread, started way back in November 2003, like 3 months after I started. This is some seriously historical stuff here. :laughing:

 

You can do it, go ahead finish your thought.

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Like for writing anti-micro poems based on Dr. Seuss and stuff. :o

 

Seriously? That sounds like standard OT fare. :blink:

 

I'm not going there. The poem can be found. B)

 

start here: http://forums.Ground...topic=59513&hl=

 

Classic

 

Ah yes, what could very well be the first ever "lame micro" thread, started way back in November 2003, like 3 months after I started. This is some seriously historical stuff here. :laughing:

 

You can do it, go ahead finish your thought.

 

No, that was a posting error. My statement "classic" was meant to fall outside of the quote box. Sorry

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The fact remains that in these types of games, geocachers are the worst when it comes to private property caches. Stores/businesses/parking lots/hospitals/dumpsters are NOT public property and hardly ever get permission to place them in those areas. They just hope that their cache isn't caught by the owner.

 

Getting caught by the owner is often not the problem. Getting caught by someone that doesn't know that there is a geocache at a specific location, and that the container is innocuous is the problem. As AZCacheMeister said in post #12 (and what I was trying to say in post #10) "asking permission does not guarantee that a Geocacher going after an urban hide won't be noticed by someone who will alert the authorities that suspicious behavior was afoot."

 

Even when permission *is* obtained to place a cache in a business parking lot, anyone else that happens to be in the parking lot when the cache is being placed (or found and replaced) might potentially inform authorities if it appears that someone is acting suspicious. They're not going to try and contact that property owner. They're just going to call the cops. If the LEO which arrives on the scene doesn't know about cache it can quickly escalate to a visit by the bomb squad.

 

I've had a few instances where I have replaced an urban cache and then realized that someone was watching me. I have always done my best to look like I just did something that I was supposed to be doing. Casually walk back to my car, no hurry, nothing to see here. Wait for a bit, maybe make a fake cell call.

 

If someone is acting suspicious and then acts like they have to get out of there before the bomb goes off, how is the casual bystander supposed to react? Too many of these stories over the past few years start out the exact same way. Single male acting weird and then making a fast getaway.

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I'm suprised to see that kind of container used for a letterbox. Most of the letterboxes I've seen tend to use low quality cheap containers.

Actually you can get a dozen of them for $6.25 here. http://www.orientaltrading.com/hibiscus-print-beach-safe-containers-a2-34_689-12-1.fltr?Ntt=beach+container

They.work quite well as cache containers as they are water resistant, fit into all sorts of places, can be suspended or even magnetized.

jrr

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I'm suprised to see that kind of container used for a letterbox. Most of the letterboxes I've seen tend to use low quality cheap containers.

 

Agreed. A lock-n-lock, if your lucky. Often Gladware! And I've seen a bunch wrapped in plastic garbage or big box store bags. Worst idea ever, they attract, rather than repel moisture.

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Hey urkman, you are the master of geo history - I got my interest in it from you. Does he still do them der Micro Burning events with that other place. I see you and Ray went once back in 09 I think?

 

Stalker. :anibad: I attended Burning Micro IV in 2008. As an added bonus, I had the winning ticket to ignite the micro pyre. No pictures or videos of that exist though. The first 3 were listed here, the 4th was, but was archived a few weeks out when QM was finally banned permanently. It went on obviously, listed on 3 alternative Geocaching websites. Burning Micro V did happen in 2009, listed only on the same 3 alternative sites. Nothing since. QM is fine, he just drove solo from Pittsburgh to the Panama Canal last spring, and blogged about it.

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I'm suprised to see that kind of container used for a letterbox. Most of the letterboxes I've seen tend to use low quality cheap containers.

Actually you can get a dozen of them for $6.25 here. http://www.orientalt...beach+container

They.work quite well as cache containers as they are water resistant, fit into all sorts of places, can be suspended or even magnetized.

jrr

 

Water "resistant" would not cut it here in WNY - but they would be perfect for stages of a multicache. Thanks for the link!

 

Hey urkman, you are the master of geo history - I got my interest in it from you. Does he still do them der Micro Burning events with that other place. I see you and Ray went once back in 09 I think?

 

Stalker. :anibad: I attended Burning Micro IV in 2008. As an added bonus, I had the winning ticket to ignite the micro pyre. No pictures or videos of that exist though. The first 3 were listed here, the 4th was, but was archived a few weeks out when QM was finally banned permanently. It went on obviously, listed on 3 alternative Geocaching websites. Burning Micro V did happen in 2009, listed only on the same 3 alternative sites. Nothing since. QM is fine, he just drove solo from Pittsburgh to the Panama Canal last spring, and blogged about it.

 

Stalker, I thought that is what we make the logs for - to be read, haha. Now if you see a beat up 2001 Dodge Caravan following you from the Elliocott Creek area to the McKinley Mall area then you can say stalker! :P (BTW - I used to live on Mapleton Drive right next to Starpoint HS, so yer neck of the woods used to be mine. My dad did most the plumbing in the homes of the Rain Tree Island area back yonder in the early 1970's.)

 

The event must have been pretty cool, we should do one here in WNY! Well any even, there have not been many lately around town.

 

******************************************************************

Back to the subject of the thread. Urban micros are a doubled edged sword it looks like. Some love them for the detective/spy type sneaking that is needed. Some who are not careful with that bring the authorities down on us geocachers as a whole. Some hate urban micros for any reason, I just do not enjoy the "eyes" looking at me when caching feeling. Then again I was always a last row kind of person, and get the creeps in the concrete jungle.

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