Video surveillance

[+JeanJensen]

Hi,

 

I have an idea for a new cache, which I want to video monitor - just for the entertainment.

 

The video sequences that are recorded, will be uploaded to my private website, and can be watched as "Spoiler videos".

 

In the description of the cache - and on the cache, I will of course point out that "you" are video monitored. So I would assure myself that I legally have done any attention to the monitoring.

 

Well: Does Groundspeak allows a cache wich are videomonitored?

 

Regards

JeanJensen

[+BlueDeuce]

There are the grandfathered webcam caches and those who place caches where they can see people finding it. That you will record my visit and load it to your private website is kinda creepy. Just saying.

Edited September 14, 2011 by BlueDeuce

[+A & J Tooling]

As long as you mention it in the info part of the cache page, I don't see anything wrong with it. Of course, be prepared for people showing you stuff you might not want to see.

[+Ginirover]

Yeah, the fact that you were going to put it online would keep me away too... I'm sure there are some great videos around of me looking for caches in eg teh centre of Brussels but I know they won't be published so that doesn't bother me.

[+BlueDeuce]

<snip>....Of course, be prepared for people showing you stuff you might not want to see.

 

Yeah still, it might give me a reason to wear my gorilla costume.

[+niraD]

IANAL, but I'd check the local laws before doing anything like that. Video surveillance may not be a problem; security cameras are common enough. But publishing the resulting video might be (unless you get signed releases, etc.).

[+kunarion]

In the description of the cache - and on the cache, I will of course point out that "you" are video monitored. So I would assure myself that I legally have done any attention to the monitoring.

Many people have nothing more than coords and whatever part of the cache name fits on the GPSr screen. So maybe some cachers will be surprised to know they were being recorded/posted.

[+entogeek]

As another cacher posted, check what your local, state/provincial and/or federal privacy laws state. You might need a signed release form from cachers giving their consent to have their images posted on a private website.

[+briansnat]

There is nothing in the guidelines that specifically prohibit this. Many geocachers however may object to the idea. If you do it, make sure that you mention that you are doing it on the cache page and let your fellow geocachers choose whether or not they will look for your cache. As others mentioned, local law may have a say in it. As the guidelines say "all local laws apply".

[+W4G_SOTAGoat]

I have a friend who does event videography and he posts a notice at every entrance saying that by entering the event you consent to have yourself video and audio recorded and possibly used for blah blah blah. If you prominently display that in your cache description you may be ok.

 

I've also seen this type of notice at concerts where they are recording live.

[+ngrrfan]

I have a friend who does event videography and he posts a notice at every entrance saying that by entering the event you consent to have yourself video and audio recorded and possibly used for blah blah blah. If you prominently display that in your cache description you may be ok.

 

I've also seen this type of notice at concerts where they are recording live.

Being recorded is one thing but if the recording is published and any one person is recognizable, you need a signed release form from that person. Simply posting something written will not protect you from a law suit.

[+Team Firenze]

I have a friend who does event videography and he posts a notice at every entrance saying that by entering the event you consent to have yourself video and audio recorded and possibly used for blah blah blah. If you prominently display that in your cache description you may be ok.

 

I've also seen this type of notice at concerts where they are recording live.

Being recorded is one thing but if the recording is published and any one person is recognizable, you need a signed release form from that person. Simply posting something written will not protect you from a law suit.

 

Not to mention, posting on the site isn't going to do you any good. You would have to post at the perimeter of the GZ notifying people that they are being recorded before they enter that area.

[+hzoi]

Some geocachers are pretty protective of their privacy. Others are less concerned with their own privacy but want to protect their childrens' -- there is one caching team I know of that makes sure only to post photos of their children from the neck down. (A little off-putting to see, I have to say, but I understand their concern.)

 

I can see where it would be neat to watch folks hunting for a cache, but it also seems pretty voyeuristic. And a little creepy. I'd be hesitant to go hunt a cache if I knew I was being filmed. But it would be even worse to find out I had been recorded without my knowledge.

 

So, you may want to tell the "good idea fairy" you're going to pass on this one. If you still want to go forward with it, you may want to put a release form on the cache page to make sure you don't get sued. Here's a good look at when a release might be needed.

 

edit: OK, that link won't be very helpful to you, it covers American law, not Danish. Danish law seems MUCH more restrictive. Case in point:

 

The goldsmith Preben Randløv was robbed February 8. 2008 where the robber not only got away with approximately 1.3 million DKR (€173,333) worth of jewellery, but also assaulted 2 employees, including Preben Randløv wife. He then proceeded to upload a video from his shop surveillance camera of the masked robber, and issues a 25.000 DKR (€3.333) reward for any information that would lead to the arrest of the robber. The Data Protection Agency decided to prosecute Preben Randløv as he had not “asked the robber for permission” to upload the video, and he was fined 10.000 DKR (€1.333), as only the police have the authority to release videos of this nature. The video did lead to an arrest of 2 individuals who claimed they had bought the jewellery, but neither of them was convicted for the robbery. In October 2008, another one of Preben Randløv stores was robbed, and he told reporters during an interview, that he would upload a video of the new robbery as well.

 

More here.

Edited November 3, 2011 by hzoi

[+ras_oscar]

If you post a notice that there is a video camera in the area, be prepared to have it go missing. I have read other threads on this forum of people using game cameras to catch cache maggots, but the presence of the camera was never made public and presumably the footage was not published either. If you must film, I would suggest you keep it for your own enjoyment.

[+Brooklyn51]

We went to a cache in Connecticut that was monitored via camera. It did mention this fact on the cache page and the CO would apparently sometimes shout clues down to the hapless wandering cachers from his apartment window across the street overlooking the hide. When we were there, one of the CO's friends stuck her head out the door to let us know we were close. Apparently there were several people watching. Fun but a little freaky. Not sure if they recorded anything though.

[+The Real Boudica.]

Would it work/help/make it more legal if you checked with individual cachers before uploading the video of them?

[+taggdog]

I can see where it would be neat to watch folks hunting for a cache, but it also seems pretty voyeuristic. And a little creepy. I'd be hesitant to go hunt a cache if I knew I was being filmed. But it would be even worse to find out I had been recorded without my knowledge.

 

So, you may want to tell the "good idea fairy" you're going to pass on this one.

 

Completely agree with the above statement. I don't like people watching me when I cache, let alone being filmed. I would most likely pass on this one if I saw something like this in the description.

[+ngrrfan]

Would it work/help/make it more legal if you checked with individual cachers before uploading the video of them?

No it wouldn't.

[+BMndFul]

I have a friend who does event videography and he posts a notice at every entrance saying that by entering the event you consent to have yourself video and audio recorded and possibly used for blah blah blah. If you prominently display that in your cache description you may be ok.

 

I've also seen this type of notice at concerts where they are recording live.

Being recorded is one thing but if the recording is published and any one person is recognizable, you need a signed release form from that person. Simply posting something written will not protect you from a law suit.

 

That is not necessarily true.... depends if it is in a public place, and the intent of use. You don't need to have a release in some states to photograph people, if you are claiming art for example. You can even sell the pictures for profit without a signed consent. Case in point of Philip-Lorca-Dicorcia who set up a strobe and shot head shots at night from a distance. He had a gallery opening selling his photos for $100K including one of a orthodox Jewish gentleman. The gentleman sue Dicorcia stating no consent was giving, and photos were against his religion. The case was thrown out. While the case is not the same as a video cache, it does illustrate that the issue of consent is very grey. Here is the link to the case if interested: Lawsuit

[+BMndFul]

Personally, I would pass on the idea regardless if it is legal or not. There are a lot of pitfalls (previously mentioned). The primarily one is a significant amount of cachers may not visit the cache. I spend a lot of time on my hides to make them hopefully fun, interesting, educational or all three. I want people to visit my work, not avoid it. I like the idea in theory, but in truth I don't want to be the star of some geocache reality show.

[+niraD]

Would it work/help/make it more legal if you checked with individual cachers before uploading the video of them?

For legal advice, check with an attorney familiar with the local laws. All you'll get here is speculation from uninformed laymen.

[jacquez]

that sounds creepy and stalkerish. i wouldn't even look for it to be honest.

[+Ambient_Skater]

Would it work/help/make it more legal if you checked with individual cachers before uploading the video of them?

No it wouldn't.

Why not? What's wrong with the CO uploading a video of someone who's given them permission?

[+popokiiti]

What happens if permission is given, then retracted after the video is uploaded? Too many potential hiccups for my comfort. It may be just fine, but if I were a CO contemplating this, I would be too concerned with potential fallout to follow through. Cacher "A" may give permission...but how do you know that they are of an age to do so legally?

[+Ambient_Skater]

Cacher "A" may give permission...but how do you know that they are of an age to do so legally?

By looking at the video?

 

If you're worried and still want to post the videos, just to blur everyone's faces out of the video.

[+robocoastie]

wildlife cameras are common so this wouldn't be any different really. A little creepy IMO but could be funny too - I'd go looking for a bigfoot costume for laughs, imagine Halloween!

[knowschad]

There is nothing in the guidelines that specifically prohibit this. Many geocachers however may object to the idea. If you do it, make sure that you mention that you are doing it on the cache page and let your fellow geocachers choose whether or not they will look for your cache. As others mentioned, local law may have a say in it. As the guidelines say "all local laws apply".

 

Once again (sigh!!) Briansnat said what I was going to say, but he said it better and he beat me to it. Soooo.... +1.

[knowschad]

Cacher "A" may give permission...but how do you know that they are of an age to do so legally?

By looking at the video?

 

If you're worried and still want to post the videos, just to blur everyone's faces out of the video.

 

At least in the U.S., if you took it in public where there is no reasonable assumption of privacy, none of that legal stuff is an issue. The issue is going to be personal, and it will come in the form of some very upset fellow cacher that takes exception to the idea. He/she won't have any legal ground to stand on, but that isn't going to make the situation any more agreeable.

Edited November 8, 2011 by knowschad

[+Harry Dolphin]

wildlife cameras are common so this wouldn't be any different really. A little creepy IMO but could be funny too - I'd go looking for a bigfoot costume for laughs, imagine Halloween!

 

I'll even admit to searching a few wildlife cameras thinking they had the caches inside.

[+A & J Tooling]

wildlife cameras are common so this wouldn't be any different really. A little creepy IMO but could be funny too - I'd go looking for a bigfoot costume for laughs, imagine Halloween!

 

I'll even admit to searching a few wildlife cameras thinking they had the caches inside.

 

Ever swap out the memory cards to mess with them? Not that I've ever done that...

[+Chokecherry]

Cacher "A" may give permission...but how do you know that they are of an age to do so legally?

By looking at the video?

 

If you're worried and still want to post the videos, just to blur everyone's faces out of the video.

 

I used to work with a particular segment of the population and heard a lot, "Well she/he looked 18." There are lots of people who look older than they are. Only way to really cover yourself with this one is to get a form of ID at the time you seek consent.

 

I wouldn't do a cache where I know I'm being taped and that it's going to go online or whatever. If I don't know it's being taped and subsequently find it online I would likely throw a holy fit.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Cacher "A" may give permission...but how do you know that they are of an age to do so legally?

By looking at the video?

 

If you're worried and still want to post the videos, just to blur everyone's faces out of the video.

 

At least in the U.S., if you took it in public where there is no reasonable assumption of privacy, none of that legal stuff is an issue. The issue is going to be personal, and it will come in the form of some very upset fellow cacher that takes exception to the idea. He/she won't have any legal ground to stand on, but that isn't going to make the situation any more agreeable.

What he said. There is no 'right to privacy' in public spaces. You can set up a webcam at any cache accessible by the public. It's perfectly legal. If I had the money to spend I would. I think far more would enjoy it than object.