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GPS - what exists other than Garmin


JeepFreak81

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Ok Ok Ok, I know what you are all thinking - Didn't this newb see the pinned post at the top of the page? I did, I did. BUT, I also noticed that most of the units talked about are garmins. What else is out there that might work for my needs? Basically I want to record trail routes while in my Jeep, hiking, etc. And also do some light Geocaching. Budget is an issue but I plan to buy used. Suggestions??

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Or you could buy a Garmin. :D

 

Some few folks will surely wander in shortly and tell you why you should buy a DeLorme, Magellan, or Lowrance. But as the Santa Barbarian already pointed out, there's a lot more support for Garmin and they pretty much own the market space and mind share you're looking in now. I've owned a few of each of those other brands, keep coming back to Garmin.

 

The products work.

Edited by Portland Cyclist
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I have used both Garmin and non-Garmin devices. I currently have a Delorme PN-60 as my primary handheld GPS and a Garmin as my automotive GPS.

 

In my opinion, the price-to-performance of Garmin handheld units is considerably higher than that of Delorme products. Remember that to make a higher-end Garmin usable you will need to purchase maps separately. But there are always trade-offs with any instrument, and there is a certain value in going with the crowd.

 

I used to be a Magellan fan but they were bought out and their products I no longer consider. I have no experience with Lowrance units.

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Lowrance has had issues in the past with Geocaching support. Magellan units are good but have had issue with there communicator software. Not good for basic members but not a problem if your a PM. As for DeLorme... its one of those you don't hear about enough and could be better then Garmin if more people would give them a second look.

 

Personally i've only got Garmin units. I have a Nuvi 1300 for the car, eTrex Legend H, and a Dakota 10. It may be 5+ years before i can buy a new unit.

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... As for DeLorme... its one of those you don't hear about enough and could be better then Garmin if more people would give them a second look.

This doesn't make sense. No matter how many people "give them a second look" it's not going to make their GPS any better (or worse) in any meaningful way.

 

On DeLorme, I'd more echo what FizzyMagic said -- great package for the price. IF you have a limited amount of money to spend up front, want to buy brand new rather than used, and need to get GPS & map software in one box from the manufacturer, THEN it's easy to be tempted by DeLorme.

 

But in a longer view, Garmin impresses me as a better value for several reasons: Wider availability of maps (both from the vendor and other sources); more hardware choices; better battery life; better hardware reliability. And while I started this message by saying it didn't really matter how many people "gave DeLorme a second look" -- enough people use Garmin to reach a kind of important critical mass: Popularity translates into tons of third-party, user-forums, and open-sourced resources that smaller vendors just cannot match.

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You missed a good sale on the oregon. I just got one. I usually use my vista and I actaully still use it. The battery life in the vista is pretty awesome and to me it seems more rugged.

 

I use my gps's mostly for non-geocaching so unless I happen to be geocaching and want the paperless caching features I think the vista is superior in many ways. I do like being able to save the 200 tracks like I can with the oregon.

 

It sounds like you use yours much in the same way as I do. I have mapped out 3 hunt clubs! I save my files so the 20 track limit isn't as much of a factor. I like to save my tracks and go to gpsvisualizer.com and superimpose them on satilite images.

 

You can find refurbished units that come with the same warrenty as the new ones. The one I have now is refurbished. I lost the other one hunting. I don't know why they make everything black and gray. :sad: I have reflective tent cordage on my new one.

 

I don't know if you can use easygps with the other brands but that's what I use to save my files.

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But in a longer view, Garmin impresses me as a better value for several reasons: Wider availability of maps (both from the vendor and other sources); more hardware choices; better battery life; better hardware reliability.

 

I agree and disagree. Maps for (some) Garmin units are more widely available, but tend to be more expensive. Delorme has excellent mapping choices available for a LOT less.

 

My Delorme has considerably better battery life than my friends' Garmin units. I can get over 30 hours without recharging, which they cannot.

 

There are clearly more hardware choices available for Garmin than for Delorme. I don't see that as a reason to go with one manufacturer over another. Chrysler has more models available than Mazda. Does that make its cars better?

 

As for hardware reliability: given the problems with the Montana, I would not hold Garmin up in that regard.

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Well, I think I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a Garmin eTrex, not sure which one yet....but I have the bottom of the line basic one right now and it's not enough for me. I'm thinking Legend, Vista, venture, or Summit....has to be HC or HCx. Refurbished or used is most likely where I'll be looking....$150 or less is going to be my budget

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I'll be taking my Jeep GC and DeLorme PN-60w with its associated SPOT communicator into the back country of the Arizona Strip this weekend (Google Mt. Trumbull schoolhouse).

http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/prog/cultural/schoolhouse.html

 

I'll be scores of miles from any paved roads, utilities or cell towers, but I will be able to text message out via the Globalstar satellite telephone service using the connectivity of the SPOT unit.

http://www.amazon.com/DeLorme-Earthmate-Navigator-Satellite-Communicator/dp/B0031QNPAC

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PM sent.
To me? Didn't get anything.

Yup. I have an eTrex Legend HCx that I was thinking of listing in the Garage Sale forum here or my local Craigslist. Nothin wrong with it, I just have too much gear laying around unused at the moment. PM me if you're interested; if I haven't heard from you by enf of week it'll be in the Garage Sale forum...

Edited by Portland Cyclist
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Fizzy:

 

It might be academic now as the OP seems to have decided on a used Garmin of the eTrex family, but I have some minor quibbles and head scratchers out of your last comments. I'm gonna slice and dice your to get to the stuff I'd like to clarify; if I yank anything unfairly out of context just smack me :)

 

Maps for (some) Garmin units are more widely available, but tend to be more expensive. Delorme has excellent mapping choices available for a LOT less.
This also goes back to what the specific user wants. If all you you want is vendor supported maps for North America (excellent US coverage, so-so in Mexico and Canada), DeLorme has the clear advantage -- because they include these in the box. BUT -- while this is a great convenience, it's a bit misleading to say DeLorme's maps cost "a LOT less." There's are huge amount of high quality maps (topo, routable roads, special interest) for most of the populated world available for Garmin, for free.

 

This comes back to what a specific buyer needs. YOU might not need a detailed maps of East Sussex, UK; but I do. I can get those for free for my Garmin. If you can even get them for the DeLorme, how can they be "a LOT less" expensive than free?

 

...I don't see more models as a reason to go with one manufacturer over another. Chrysler has more models available than Mazda. Does that make its cars better?
Depends on what you want to buy.

 

My needs, yours, the OP might all have a different ideal. More models gives better chance of finding a closer fit to your needs. If you're in the market for a small-screen handheld GPS with buttons rather than a touchscreen, then "more models" doesn't favor Garmin over DeLorme -- they both have that form factor covered. Want a touchscreen? A bigger screen? A smaller screen? Something you can wear on your wrist? Connect to a heart rate monitor? Track yer huntin dog? Advantage Garmin. Want a connection to a SPOT satellite communicator? Advantage DeLorme. It all depends on what you're after.

 

My Delorme has considerably better battery life than my friends' Garmin units. I can get over 30 hours without recharging, which they cannot.
It's notoriously difficult to get an apples-to-apples battery life comparison. I often use Energizer Lithium Ultimates in my eTrex HCX -- and I kid you not, I literally go MONTHS between changing batteries. But my usage profile probably does not match yours.

 

I would want to know what batteries you are using, and how you use your device, and what model & battery & usage combination your Garmin friends have, otherwise "Your batteries last 30 hours" or "Mine last months" is really not a useful comparison.

 

As for hardware reliability: given the problems with the Montana, I would not hold Garmin up in that regard.
I would not hold up any manufacturer's most recent model as an example of how the rest of their product line (old models and new) works :D

 

But yeah, I think the Montana is probably a real stinker. I predicted it would be when I saw the original specs. Big and clumsy. I'd be surprised if they can iron out all the new-product issues even in a year or two. Which is why I won't be buying one!

Edited by Portland Cyclist
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. . . Want a touchscreen? A bigger screen? A smaller screen? Wanna something you can wear on your wrist?

The Internet makes this a very small world. At about the same time 'Portland Cyclist' was writing that comment a few minutes ago, I was reading a prominently archived Obit of Chester Gould. Gould was the artist/creater of Dick Tracy.

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Maps for (some) Garmin units are more widely available, but tend to be more expensive. Delorme has excellent mapping choices available for a LOT less.
This also goes back to what the specific user wants. If all you you want is vendor supported maps for North America (excellent US coverage, so-so in Mexico and Canada), DeLorme has the clear advantage -- because they include these in the box. BUT -- while this is a great convenience, it's a bit misleading to say DeLorme's maps cost "a LOT less." There's are huge amount of high quality maps (topo, routable roads, special interest) for most of the populated world available for Garmin, for free.

 

 

Where can you get free routable road maps for Garmins?

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Where can you get free routable road maps for Garmins?

Open Street Maps ... http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php (takes you to the same OSM site as the link above).

 

There's a caveat with those maps, though. NOBODY has ever cracked the embedded street address system in the Garmin maps, so you cannot route by address with 3rd party maps. However, if you can identify the start and end points on the map or other means, the OSM maps will provide turn by turn just like the Garmin CN maps.

Edited by ecanderson
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I have been looking into what else is on offer. But for me as European, there is not much choice when it comes down to maps. Garmin has maps from almost all the planet, and they provide also more detailed maps (topography maps) from other countries than the USA.

There is indeed Open Maps which cover a lot of territory, but I didn't figure out if they would run on other brands. I am also happy with the reliability of my Garmin's, so that is another factor making me decide to get a Garmin again.

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I'll be taking my Jeep GC and DeLorme PN-60w with its associated SPOT communicator into the back country of the Arizona Strip this weekend (Google Mt. Trumbull schoolhouse).

http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/prog/cultural/schoolhouse.html

 

I'll be scores of miles from any paved roads, utilities or cell towers, but I will be able to text message out via the Globalstar satellite telephone service using the connectivity of the SPOT unit.

http://www.amazon.com/DeLorme-Earthmate-Navigator-Satellite-Communicator/dp/B0031QNPAC

Since this thread was supposed to be about Anything Around Except Garmin (AAEG) I decided to first use my only available Garmin units to find CowboyPapa's planned off-road area.

 

1)The old yellow Etrex still keeps time and boots up every couple of months on alkaline AA cells. This makes it a very good backup storage unit for AA cells and emergency satellite fixes.

 

2)The Garmin Nuvi 255 actually shows AZ CR-5 in the area of the Mount Trumbull Schoolhouse. Getting it to find Mount (Mt) Trumbull, let alone route to it from afar through Saint (St) George, UT has so far eluded me. I also find that my fingers, let alone my thumbs, are marginally too big for the touch screen design.

 

3) But a road route on the Nuvi from St. George to the schoolhouse over the Nuvi depiction of the roads may be locally doable for the experienced, as long as the user has other maps and devices.

 

4) First I had cranked up the Delorme PN-60 with its Topographic contours, and searchable streets, back roads, and trails for the entire 48 continental US States plus a few similar map files of Canadian Provinces to find the Mount Trumbull, AZ "off-road" area and route to it from Southern California.

 

5) Yes the PN-60 will only get over 30 hours of use out of 2XAA cells if it is lightly used in something not much more demanding than a windowsill test, but it get perhaps half of that time with reasonable use of its color screen with included maps out of the original box.

 

6) I have done some thinking "outside the box" about how different apps and devices may handle track point and routable connected lines for kayaks in the last few days. But the box that contained the PN-60 is looking pretty good after the additional reading and downloading of file conversion apps that I undertook.

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39 Steps,

 

2)The Garmin Nuvi 255 actually shows AZ CR-5 in the area of the Mount Trumbull Schoolhouse. Getting it to find Mount (Mt) Trumbull, let alone route to it from afar through Saint (St) George, UT has so far eluded me....

 

3) But a road route on the Nuvi from St. George to the schoolhouse over the Nuvi depiction of the roads may be locally doable for the experienced, as long as the user has other maps and devices.

 

You are aware that you can load GPSfiledepot.com topo maps on a SD card and use them in the Nuvi. I do it all the time. The free topos (and other transparent maps) available for my area of the world are quite nice for woods rambling. My 60csx and Nuvi have not only topos, but public land boundaries and hiking trail transparency layers. I can just pop in the SD, turn off CN and I'm good to go in most situations with the Nuvi.

 

Cowboy can best that if he downloads aerials of his schoolhouse area and then trace roads in his Delorme software. That info/map can be cut/sent to a PN. From aerials you can trace cattle trails, much less a logging road that might not be listed on a Garmin or Delorme software. One major advantage Delorme has over the free topos for Garmins if the user has access to a Delorme maps subscription. I've done that many times with my Delorme. Of course, the subscription is paid.

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I'm finding myself reading this as a UK user with a 60CSx and and Oregon 300.

 

The 60CSx was great.. the Oregon promised and still tries to promise convenience but has NEVER really been as good as the 60CSx as a basic unit. It's now out of production and seems to be less well maintained than the 60CSx ever was.. I mean they at least they got it to a good working state and everybody was happy - hell, with the 60CSx everybody was happy with 2-3 revs of software updates.

 

No, Garmin went on an R&D feature spurge with a new platform and the first few hardware platforms didn't cut the mustard to run it.. problems with the Cartesio chipset plagued the Oregon and I think still do, then the Dakota came.. then the 62 series and now the Montana (gladly I didn't even have the Colorado). I'm beginning to wonder if Garmin are going to go through the other 47 states with new units headlining and being discontinued before finally having a unit to continue with. See the problem when we see the Garmin 'Delaware' and I'm sure the 'New Jersey' will even appear at some point.

 

ANYWAY, I'm a UK user so even less choice and I'm totally ****** off by Garmin's approach that they will choose to do crummy raster maps rather than maintain detailed vector maps. I have Garmin Topo UK and the OSM variants as vector and man they by far outshine the GB Discoverer maps when you are out on the trail.. who wants to see a 30yd wide pixel when walking :s

 

So, even after this investment, including lifetime Nuvi Maps for the Garmin, some GB Discover download products, my TOPO GB etc. all unit tied now, and the yearly satellite imagery subscription I'm considering if it's actually better to chuck the lot and go for a Magellan Explorist 510 or a 610.

 

It seems I can get the aerial imagery for the unit now, they offer that kind of service.. it would be interesting to know if the World Map they offer was any cop and what the European Map is like on the 610... any users out there?

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Maps for (some) Garmin units are more widely available, but tend to be more expensive. Delorme has excellent mapping choices available for a LOT less.
This also goes back to what the specific user wants. If all you you want is vendor supported maps for North America (excellent US coverage, so-so in Mexico and Canada), DeLorme has the clear advantage -- because they include these in the box. BUT -- while this is a great convenience, it's a bit misleading to say DeLorme's maps cost "a LOT less." There's are huge amount of high quality maps (topo, routable roads, special interest) for most of the populated world available for Garmin, for free.

As you say, this is complicated. I agree that Delorme's coverage outside the US is not good. But in the US Delorme offers an all-you-can-eat option for detailed topo and imagery for $30 a year. And the maps don't expire.

 

My Delorme has considerably better battery life than my friends' Garmin units. I can get over 30 hours without recharging, which they cannot.
It's notoriously difficult to get an apples-to-apples battery life comparison. I often use Energizer Lithium Ultimates in my eTrex HCX -- and I kid you not, I literally go MONTHS between changing batteries. But my usage profile probably does not match yours.

 

I am talking about continuous use. I use the Cab Bats for my Delorme; they are considerably better than the stock rechargables. But the main feature of the Delorme is that you can recharge the batteries while you are using the device. Using a standard USB connector. Big win there.

 

I am actually not a huge fan of any one company or the other; I regularly recommend Garmin units to others when I think they are the best fit. That especially goes for users who are less technical than I am.

 

But let's be fair here: Garmin charges premium prices. We all know that. If one is sufficiently able to take advantage of the other vendors' devices, they generally offer more for the money.

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... But in the US Delorme offers an all-you-can-eat option for detailed topo and imagery for $30 a year. And the maps don't expire.

More quibbles when you present this as a unique DeLorme advantage:

 

1) Garmin also offers an annual $30/yr imagery subscription. Do Garmin's Birdseye maps expire?

2) Garmin's subscription imagery coverage is worldwide. DeLorme offers a couple of different ways to download worldwide imagery and maps, but they're all priced separately and in addition to the $30/annual, US-only offering you mentioned.

 

You could also build your own custom maps for either Garmin or DeLorme if you wanted to. Tools for doing it on the Garmin are free. DeLorme's XMap starts at $99.

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...I use the Cab Bats for my Delorme; they are considerably better than the stock rechargables. But the main feature of the Delorme is that you can recharge the batteries while you are using the device. Using a standard USB connector. Big win there.

Maybe I'm just being overly literal here, but I gotta call you out on this one too.

 

I give DeLorme points for battery FLEXIBILITY -- the ability to use alkaline, NIMH, primary or rechargeable lithium, and the ability to charge an RCRV3 while in the device. BUT -- the OP mentioned more than once that he's on a budget, and even a $150 is a bit of a stretch. You made a claim (initially unqualified) that DeLorme's have better battery life... but here it turns out you only get the claimed battery life with a special, custom made $50 battery.

 

And I'm not sure being able to charge while using is such a big deal for an outdoor device. If I'm in a car or someplace where I have access to external power, I can RUN any GPS without draining the battery. If I'm in the field, I can't charge it anyhow. So your "big win" means... what, that you don't have to open the back of the GPS once in a while to swap batteries? You still have to come back to the jeep to charge it, don't you?

Edited by Portland Cyclist
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But the main feature of the Delorme is that you can recharge the batteries while you are using the device. Using a standard USB connector. Big win there.

I'm not a Delorme owner, so you'll have to forgive the ignorance -- but on the surface of it, that's downright scary. How does the Delorme know what battery chemistry the installed AA cells employ??? Wrong charge algorithm on wrong cells .. not safe, not good. Do they trust the user to correctly identify the cell type? Or ??? Does the unit you're talking about even use AA cells? Edited by ecanderson
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But the main feature of the Delorme is that you can recharge the batteries while you are using the device. Using a standard USB connector. Big win there.

I'm not a Delorme owner, so you'll have to forgive the ignorance -- but on the surface of it, that's downright scary. How does the Delorme know what battery chemistry the installed AA cells employ??? Wrong charge algorithm on wrong cells .. not safe, not good. Do they trust the user to correctly identify the cell type? Or ??? Does the unit you're talking about even use AA cells?

Not to worry....no problem at all. It auto detects the highest voltage option, LI-Ion rechargeable, and also one of the lower voltage types.

Consequently, there is no safety or operational consideration here.

There are hundreds of us, if not thousands, who have experienced no problems in this regard whatsoever.

 

Therefore for those two of the four options that are not autoselectable, the worst that can happen is an incorrect projection of remaining charge.

 

Again, googling will not reveal any failures due to user mis-specification of battery type.

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Cowboy can best that if he downloads aerials of his schoolhouse area and then trace roads in his Delorme software. That info/map can be cut/sent to a PN. From aerials you can trace cattle trails, much less a logging road that might not be listed on a Garmin or Delorme software. One major advantage Delorme has over the free topos for Garmins if the user has access to a Delorme maps subscription. I've done that many times with my Delorme. Of course, the subscription is paid.

10-4, already done, several years ago.

I have scores of GB of the downloaded non-expirable, color, aerial photo imagery downloaded to my PC.

For this trip, I have 14 1GB files of this imagery transferred my 16GB SDHC card in my PN-60w and ready to go tomorrow.

This represents about 2500 sq mi up on the Arizona Strip.

 

CAUTION: Your Zoom Level may vary. :lol:

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But the main feature of the Delorme is that you can recharge the batteries while you are using the device. Using a standard USB connector. Big win there.

I'm not a Delorme owner, so you'll have to forgive the ignorance --

ECA, I totally forgive....no recrimination intended whatsoever.

OTOH, my operational concept is to keep my PN-60w with the RCV-R3 rechargeable Li-Ion battery on 12VDC power while in my Jeep. I even recharge it overnight in that fashion as I garage my Jeep at home.

Check this:

Quatro 12VDC to USB, 4 holer:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2085

In my Jeep and ready to charge my PN-60w, cellphone, MP3 player and .... whatever I buy next.

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...for those two of the four options that are not autoselectable, the worst that can happen is an incorrect projection of remaining charge. ... googling will not reveal any failures due to user mis-specification of battery type
That's because when a DeLorme GPS bursts into flames, there are no survivors within a 100 meter radius, and mysterious men in cowboy hats are dispatched to clean up the mess and make sure none of the witnesses talk.

 

Um, just kidding.

 

On the other hand - while I haven't seen any reports of a DeLorme bursting an overcharged battery, various power related problems are among the most frequent themes over on DeLorme's own discussion forums. Have been for years.

 

Misdetecting battery type and prematurely shutting down. Devices that won't power up unless you pull the batteries out and re-insert -- or not at all. The ones that won't power up at all have to go back to the factory for repair. The power/data cable itself is failure prone -- best thing that can be said there is DeLorme is good about replacing broken ones for free. But smart money says shell out $15 for a spare ahead of time, just in case.

 

Stu, when you say "hundreds if not thousands" are using that battery type, it sounds like you're guessing. Wanna venture a guess at how many PN-series power cables DeLorme has had to replace? Or how many PN-30/40 units had to be RMA'd for power-on problems?

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Not to worry....no problem at all. It auto detects the highest voltage option, LI-Ion rechargeable, and also one of the lower voltage types.

Clever - and what does it do about cells that aren't of the rechargeable type - say an Energizer Lithium cell?

DeLorme GPSs will only recharge rechargeable batteries that they recognize.

 

Pop in a DeLorme battery pack or "Cab-Batt" - it'll charge when plugged into external power. Regular AA cells - it'll just be powered by the cord and the batteries aren't touched.

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Aren't Garmin's Birdseye maps locked to a single device?

Yes, but that's not the same things as suggesting they expire.
Then they expire when the device expires or changes hands, don't they?

 

Aren't DeLorme's hi-res international imagery and worldwide basemap subscriptions each separate, extra cost items (not the same as the USA map pack), and locked to a single device?

Due to the licensing requirements of the various suppliers, yes.

 

Thankfully, there are multiple options available and you aren't stuck with only the plan(s) locking you to a single device.

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Thankfully, there are multiple options available and you aren't stuck with only the plan(s) locking you to a single device.

Do you mean specifically with DeLorme, or just that between Garmin and DeLorme you have multiple options?

 

The ironic fact is that while DeLorme is primarily a mapping company, there are more mapping choices (both for-pay and for-free) for Garmin users. DeLorme is a good price & convenient choice for the US-centric maps bundled with the GPS -- but as soon as you want international maps, or any kind of custom mapping/imagery that didn't come in the box, there really are more options available for Garmin users.

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DeLorme GPSs will only recharge rechargeable batteries that they recognize.

Curious. What happens if you pop in a non-rechargable CRV3 battery? Does it correctly auto-detect the type? I thought it detected this form factor by the fact that bottom of the battery pack had no contacts, so it could mistake a CRV3 for an RCRV3.

 

I seem to recall some warnings on DeLorme's forums website to be careful about that.

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I'm going to chime in on the battery charging. There is a sense line on the connector between the two AA batteries. If it senses power it knows there are AA in there and will not charge. If there is a Li-Ion battery in there, it only connects to the top two terminals and no voltage is sensed on the bottom connecting bar.

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Stu, when you say "hundreds if not thousands" are using that battery type, it sounds like you're guessing. Wanna venture a guess at how many PN-series power cables DeLorme has had to replace? Or how many PN-30/40 units had to be RMA'd for power-on problems?

Roger that on the guess, as with all but cars, who knows how many of what are actually sold?

 

About the cables, great subject shift....batteries to cables or other power problems. I have no idea, actually. I did have one cable go bad, but never had to send a unit back due to power problems. OTOH, I am an insufficient sample size of one for purposes of failure mode analyses.

 

Now, as another subject shift, the SPOT Communicator that I mentioned earlier as it complements the DeLorme PN-60w. When I get to the schoolhouse at Mt. Trumbell Sat AM, which is 60 miles from any cell tower, I will send out an "all is well" message to my family back here. Now, if our OP wants to take his Jeep into the back country on similar trips and report back homw, alternatives?

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Not to worry....no problem at all. It auto detects the highest voltage option, LI-Ion rechargeable, and also one of the lower voltage types.

Clever - and what does it do about cells that aren't of the rechargeable type - say an Energizer Lithium cell?

Exactly, and as noted above, due to the connection of the RCR-V3 rechargeables, at the upper ends only and not the lower, it does not recharge those of the typical AA configuration.

 

Hey, what works...works.

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I have used both Garmin and non-Garmin devices. I currently have a Delorme PN-60 as my primary handheld GPS and a Garmin as my automotive GPS.

 

In my opinion, the price-to-performance of Garmin handheld units is considerably higher than that of Delorme products. Remember that to make a higher-end Garmin usable you will need to purchase maps separately. But there are always trade-offs with any instrument, and there is a certain value in going with the crowd.

 

I used to be a Magellan fan but they were bought out and their products I no longer consider. I have no experience with Lowrance units.

 

But, De Lorme do not work well at all with Macs, so thry are simply out of consideration for many of us (like me). Too bad for the maps seem great.

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But, De Lorme do not work well at all with Macs, so thry are simply out of consideration for many of us (like me). Too bad for the maps seem great.

???

 

I use my Delorme with my Mac all the time. Works great. Getting maps requires a PC but once the maps are on everything else works fine with a Mac.

As I understand it, a Mac computer can successfully copy all of Delorme's vectorized Topo maps included in the box-bundle to the PN-xx devices or to an SD card.

 

Ordering the optional extra cost downloadable rasterized 'satellite' imagery map tiles from the "cloud" can present issues to Mac users without PC compatibility software however.

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I use my Delorme with my Mac all the time. Works great. Getting maps requires a PC but once the maps are on everything else works fine with a Mac.
This is factually incorrect in some ways, and philosophically unsatisfying in others.

 

You DON'T need a PC to load DeLorme maps on a Mac. Detailed regional maps are included on DVDs in the package, and you can download subscription/purchase maps directly from DeLorme without needing the Topo software. And you can copy waypoints, geocaches, and tracks to and from the PN directly.

 

But: Neither Topo nor XMap run in the Mac OS. Without Topo, you can't customize your maps; no custome draw layers, and you're limited to details and zoom levels on the pre-cut ones on DVD or as downloaded from data.delorme.com. You also cannot create or transfer routes to/from the GPS. Without XMap you can't create maps of your own from your own data sources. Those features require a PC (or a Mac running Windows) -- something a lot of Mac users are not willing or able to do.

 

Further, DeLorme typically releases firmware updates for the PN through the update mechanism in the Topo software and/or a Windows executable. This is strange in itself because all that's needed to update the firmware is to put a file on the SD card and start up the GPS. What has happened with several previous updates is that Mac users were "left out" for weeks or months, until someone convinces DeLorme to post the update in a usable format.

 

And most recently -- DeLorme's geocaching software (Cache Register) seems to have stopped working for at least some Mac users. And anyone who upgrades to the latest Mac OS (10.7, Lion) might find their PN won't connect to their Mac at all. Discussion of both problems ongoing at DeLorme's forums right now.

 

So ... having the subset of feature YOU might want is great, but that's nothing like feature parity.

Edited by Portland Cyclist
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Aren't Garmin's Birdseye maps locked to a single device?

Yes, but that's not the same things as suggesting they expire.
Then they expire when the device expires or changes hands, don't they?

 

Not exactly. Garmin was happy to provide a new unlock code for CityNav when they swapped my out-of-warranty 76CSx because of a torn gasket. And the maps work just as well now as they did then.

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Thankfully, there are multiple options available and you aren't stuck with only the plan(s) locking you to a single device.

Do you mean specifically with DeLorme, or just that between Garmin and DeLorme you have multiple options?

I meant DeLorme, but upon further consideration I guess it applies to Garmin as well - lots of vector maps available free for Garmin.
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