Geocacher attitude

[+tozainamboku]

Well, the rules themselves a simple : in order to have a 'real' log, you have to sign the book.

I don't know why when I point out there is no such rule, knowschad complains that I don't put in my opinion, while when someone makes a claim that it is a rule, nobody says you need to say "in my opinion"

 

Well, I do know why. If it is a rule you could just point to the rule and prove the point. So far though, no "rule" has been pointed to that says that the only acceptable online found is when the physical log is signed.

 

Again, not trying to make it work, but without some standards, this just becomes Waymarking. No one wants that.

Why does Waymarking get picked on for this. There are standards for logging waymarks, they are different than geocaches (and can be different for different categories of waymarks). What's your point?

 

Geocaching is a fun, light, activity. People post online logs to share that they found the cache, not to share that they signed the log.

[knowschad]

This game is not exactly a nuclear arms treaty. It's enough to trust. Verify only when something doesn't smell quite right and then be flexible. The signed log is usually the best verification, but it is rarely the only one.

That is a quotable quote there.

[+Coldgears]

Because it's the intarwebs.

 

 

I am looking at this very pic next to the computer. Thanks for the reminder. Outta here.

You just lost.

[+John in Valley Forge]

frankly, your only way to tell if you really found it.

A picture of me at the cache doesn't prove I was there? Nor does an exact description of said cache?

 

Nope.

Neither does my name. Anyone can write "coldgears" in a cache.

 

Let me make it simple so we can stop all these wild hypothetical situations you seem to like to throw around. My cache, I require signature. You're too lazy sign, I delete, GS backs me. Don't like, don't hunt my caches.

 

The situation you mentioned about the long hike with no pen, I have been there (although rarely am without pen). I waited until I could get back to sign before logging. I do not care what the CO "would" accept, for me, no sig, no online log nor increment in count. Previous poster is correct. It is not a score, so if you or I do not log on line, no big deal however signing log is not only the accepted norm, it is the first thing GS will look at to settle a dispute.

 

Again, not trying to make it work, but without some standards, this just becomes Waymarking. No one wants that.

First of all, it is not wild, nor hypothetical. I've had numerous geocaching buddies, and family members all offer to sign a log in a geocache for me. I said "no" of course.

 

I try as hard as I can to sign the log, but I refuse to do another 2 mile hike. I do geocaching for my own enjoyment, not for numbers. I'd rather leave it as "not found" then go back and find the cache again.

 

Now, I understand you want to get on your high-and-mighty chair and spit down on me. But, you still have not given me adequate reason for why a picture of me at the cache, opened up, and with the log in my hand, is not adequate proof I have found it.

 

I'd probably delete your logs just on general principal.

[+DanOCan]

Mud and twig?

Twig and lighter?

Chlorophyll?

 

For the record, I'd much rather someone send me a picture or describe the container to me than defile my logbooks with mud, blood or some of the other things some CO's insist can be used to sign.

 

I'll never understand why some insist a signature in the logbook is the *only* way to verify the find.

[+Ash McCloud]

Cold gears you carry a camera to every spot you go. I would assume it is a phone camera, but if its a camera in a bag how hard would it be to put a pen in there. If you can carry a phone or a camera you can carry a pen. I don'[t think that is too much to ask. Some people in here talk about being cachers but not carrying a pen. I find that very weird. It seems that unless we are going for an earth or virtual, than we all know that one requirement is signing the log. Also if you found one of my caches, i don't need a pic of you I just need you to sign the log. Now if you want to show the area you were in than by all means show the picture on the site. I just don't want you giving anything away. It seems that if CO's want a signed log, why do you want to give them something they did not ask for. It seems the way they enjoy the game is to have a signed log. Since they provided the cache. All you really did was search for it, yet you are now telling them how they should enjoy the game.

 

To those who don't like signing nanos. Neither do I but you sign it because it is part of the game. THe only thing that really frustrates me about nanos is when people put there full name and take up to more than a few spaces. Initial it and say when and what initials you used in the online log.

[+John in Valley Forge]

Cold gears you carry a camera to every spot you go. I would assume it is a phone camera, but if its a camera in a bag how hard would it be to put a pen in there. If you can carry a phone or a camera you can carry a pen. I don'[t think that is too much to ask. Some people in here talk about being cachers but not carrying a pen. I find that very weird. It seems that unless we are going for an earth or virtual, than we all know that one requirement is signing the log. Also if you found one of my caches, i don't need a pic of you I just need you to sign the log. Now if you want to show the area you were in than by all means show the picture on the site. I just don't want you giving anything away. It seems that if CO's want a signed log, why do you want to give them something they did not ask for. It seems the way they enjoy the game is to have a signed log. Since they provided the cache. All you really did was search for it, yet you are now telling them how they should enjoy the game.

 

To those who don't like signing nanos. Neither do I but you sign it because it is part of the game. THe only thing that really frustrates me about nanos is when people put there full name and take up to more than a few spaces. Initial it and say when and what initials you used in the online log.

 

CG has a habit of proudly NOT carrying a pen or pencil, then bragging about not signing the logs or even opening the cache.

No one really knows if these are true statements by him, or just pot stirring.

[+wildchld97]

Cold gears you carry a camera to every spot you go. I would assume it is a phone camera, but if its a camera in a bag how hard would it be to put a pen in there. If you can carry a phone or a camera you can carry a pen. I don'[t think that is too much to ask. Some people in here talk about being cachers but not carrying a pen. I find that very weird. It seems that unless we are going for an earth or virtual, than we all know that one requirement is signing the log. Also if you found one of my caches, i don't need a pic of you I just need you to sign the log. Now if you want to show the area you were in than by all means show the picture on the site. I just don't want you giving anything away. It seems that if CO's want a signed log, why do you want to give them something they did not ask for. It seems the way they enjoy the game is to have a signed log. Since they provided the cache. All you really did was search for it, yet you are now telling them how they should enjoy the game.

 

To those who don't like signing nanos. Neither do I but you sign it because it is part of the game. THe only thing that really frustrates me about nanos is when people put there full name and take up to more than a few spaces. Initial it and say when and what initials you used in the online log.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[knowschad]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about geocacher attitude? Arguments about signing the log was simply an example of said attitude, and having this thread turn into another argument about signing the log isn't exactly helping matters, is it?

[+A & J Tooling]

It's just a game. It's only a game...

[knowschad]

It's just a game. It's only a game...

 

You mean, like the Olympics?

[+A & J Tooling]

Cold gears you carry a camera to every spot you go. I would assume it is a phone camera, but if its a camera in a bag how hard would it be to put a pen in there. If you can carry a phone or a camera you can carry a pen. I don'[t think that is too much to ask. Some people in here talk about being cachers but not carrying a pen. I find that very weird. It seems that unless we are going for an earth or virtual, than we all know that one requirement is signing the log. Also if you found one of my caches, i don't need a pic of you I just need you to sign the log. Now if you want to show the area you were in than by all means show the picture on the site. I just don't want you giving anything away. It seems that if CO's want a signed log, why do you want to give them something they did not ask for. It seems the way they enjoy the game is to have a signed log. Since they provided the cache. All you really did was search for it, yet you are now telling them how they should enjoy the game.

 

To those who don't like signing nanos. Neither do I but you sign it because it is part of the game. THe only thing that really frustrates me about nanos is when people put there full name and take up to more than a few spaces. Initial it and say when and what initials you used in the online log.

On one hand, you complain about not signing and the next you complain if they sign too much? If I gotta' get that little thingy out of that container, you betcha' I'm leaving my mark and you'll not be able to question it.

[+A & J Tooling]

It's just a game. It's only a game...

 

You mean, like the Olympics?

 

Yea, I worked pretty close to some people in the Olympics one year. The kids were pretty down to earth about the whole ordeal. It was their trainers and parents and offical government lacky's that made it a mess.

[+GeoBain]

I think (hope?) that you will find that attitude is generally met with a similar attitude, just as in real life. People that push generally get pushed back, whereas people that bring something good to the party are generally met by smiles and handshakes.

+1

[+Vater_Araignee]

Mud and twig?

Twig and lighter?

Chlorophyll?

 

For the record, I'd much rather someone send me a picture or describe the container to me than defile my logbooks with mud, blood or some of the other things some CO's insist can be used to sign.

 

I'll never understand why some insist a signature in the logbook is the *only* way to verify the find.

First I never said a thing about blood or any potential disease transmitters. I'm not like the jerk that will sign in sharpy blotting out other sigs, so if I use mud or chlorophyll then they are allowed to dry first. More likely tho I'll use carbon, you don't insist your logs get signed with ink dispensers only do you?

 

You state you want pictures as proof, I find you cache and place my signature in the cache and miraculously decide to log it on line and you delete my find because of no picture. Who does Groundspeak back up?

You take a picture of my cache but neglect to sign the log and I delete your online log. Who does Groundspeak back up?

 

Now where have I insisted the signature is the only way? I have a cache that states clearly pictures are acceptable for that particular cache.

I am me, you are you, on your cache I'll do it your way and with mine it is done my way.

If you find a CO who is willing to let you claim a find on all their caches because you submitted a track line indicating you got within 10' of their caches, that is on the CO but it isn't going to float with me.

 

Understand what I am saying? You have no more right to tell me what is acceptable with my cache than I have to tell you with yours beyond the reasoning behind the minimum BOP.

[+Ash McCloud]

Cold gears you carry a camera to every spot you go. I would assume it is a phone camera, but if its a camera in a bag how hard would it be to put a pen in there. If you can carry a phone or a camera you can carry a pen. I don'[t think that is too much to ask. Some people in here talk about being cachers but not carrying a pen. I find that very weird. It seems that unless we are going for an earth or virtual, than we all know that one requirement is signing the log. Also if you found one of my caches, i don't need a pic of you I just need you to sign the log. Now if you want to show the area you were in than by all means show the picture on the site. I just don't want you giving anything away. It seems that if CO's want a signed log, why do you want to give them something they did not ask for. It seems the way they enjoy the game is to have a signed log. Since they provided the cache. All you really did was search for it, yet you are now telling them how they should enjoy the game.

 

To those who don't like signing nanos. Neither do I but you sign it because it is part of the game. THe only thing that really frustrates me about nanos is when people put there full name and take up to more than a few spaces. Initial it and say when and what initials you used in the online log.

On one hand, you complain about not signing and the next you complain if they sign too much? If I gotta' get that little thingy out of that container, you betcha' I'm leaving my mark and you'll not be able to question it.

 

Well the nano does have a signing part but it usually shows as little boxes. Each box can clearly hold a abreviation but unless you are one of the characters from the littles, it is pretty hard to fully sign. Also it is common if you are with a group of cachers of three or more to sign the log as a group and when you get home to say how you signed it and who was in the team. This is good for nanos because it keeps them from having to replace every few days.

[knowschad]

[knowschad]

Okay, we've been caching for around six years, we've cached in the western states, Canada and a little in Mexico, we've met lots of geocachers in the field and at events and have almost always found them to be really nice. So why is there so much attitude on the forums? I freely admit, that maybe it's my perspective, but it just seems that there are a lot of folks who worry too much about how others play the game.

 

<snipped stuff>

 

Just my two cents.

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to agree with you, after all.

[+RocTheCacheBox]

OMG! Jeremy and Richard are cachers too?!

Tonight on Top Gear...James finds tupperware in the woods, Richard signs a log, and Jeremy get poison Ivy.....

[Mr.Yuck]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about geocacher attitude? Arguments about signing the log was simply an example of said attitude, and having this thread turn into another argument about signing the log isn't exactly helping matters, is it?

 

I have to +1 this one! Man, this is making the collective "us" look bad. Did Mr. T drop his Jeremy Irish quote from about a month ago that he is going to have locked and loaded on CTRL V for all eternity yet?

[+wimseyguy]

Some one has a sig line that reads something like "the forums are the talk radio of the geocaching world".

 

Some of use (myself included) have more time to hang out in here than go caching- so we have a chance to form very solid opinions on all kinds of aspects of geocaching.

 

Edit: if you don't open the cache how do you know you found it?

You rang?

 

I have seen more than one cache that may have a difficult to sign log but easy to spot container. I imagine those owners really want some ink on paper for you to call it a find, and that's how I play.

 

I would equate some of the forum activity to that of a neighborhood bar with a bunch of Cliff Clavins in residence. Come in here nice, sit quietly for your first cold one, and strike up a pleasant conversation with someone at the next stool, and everyone will know your name next week.

 

Come in here with some attitude, or telling everyone what is wrong with geocaching as we know it, and you are likely to get the same degree or more of attitude back at ya.

 

Finally, as already mentioned, 1-the lack of ability to display subtle emotion via face or body action can create extra angst, and 2- there is the anonymity factor-local and regional forums tend to play nicer as you are likely to run into each other at events or on the trails.

 

frankly, your only way to tell if you really found it.

A picture of me at the cache doesn't prove I was there? Nor does an exact description of said cache?

 

Nope.

1. Neither does my name. Anyone can write "coldgears" in a cache.

 

Let me make it simple so we can stop all these wild hypothetical situations you seem to like to throw around. My cache, I require signature. You're too lazy sign, I delete, GS backs me. Don't like, don't hunt my caches.

 

The situation you mentioned about the long hike with no pen, I have been there (although rarely am without pen). I waited until I could get back to sign before logging. I do not care what the CO "would" accept, for me, no sig, no online log nor increment in count. Previous poster is correct. It is not a score, so if you or I do not log on line, no big deal however signing log is not only the accepted norm, it is the first thing GS will look at to settle a dispute.

 

Again, not trying to make it work, but without some standards, this just becomes Waymarking. No one wants that.

First of all, it is not wild, nor hypothetical. 2. I've had numerous geocaching buddies, and family members all offer to sign a log in a geocache for me. I said "no" of course.

 

I try as hard as I can to sign the log, but I refuse to do another 2 mile hike. I do geocaching for my own enjoyment, not for numbers. I'd rather leave it as "not found" then go back and find the cache again.

 

Now, I understand you want to get on your high-and-mighty chair and spit down on me. But, you still have not given me adequate reason for why a picture of me at the cache, opened up, and with the log in my hand, is not adequate proof I have found it.

 

1. Ever heard of photoshop?

2. Really?!? That's the second time you have mentioned that phenomena in here recently. I have been doing this quite a bit longer than you, and have never had anyone make this offer to me with any degree of seriousness, nor can I recall anyone else mentioning this as a serious offer in another forum discussion. Either your friends and family don't get it, or things aren't really all that sunny in Philadelphia after all.

Edited September 1, 2011 by wimseyguy

[AZcachemeister]

1) How out-of-touch do you have to be to go on a hike (of any length) to find a cache, and not bring several pens (and a pencil or two just for good measure)?

 

2) Signing the log has been a part of Geocaching since before it was Geocaching.

 

3) Any cache I hide MUST contain (at a minimum) a log of some sort. Why is that?

[+tozainamboku]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about geocacher attitude? Arguments about signing the log was simply an example of said attitude, and having this thread turn into another argument about signing the log isn't exactly helping matters, is it?

 

I have to +1 this one! Man, this is making the collective "us" look bad. Did Mr. T drop his Jeremy Irish quote from about a month ago that he is going to have locked and loaded on CTRL V for all eternity yet?

I have to admit that when I was looking for a picture of a puritan for post #15, I nearly used this one

[+Sioneva]

<snip>

We so appreciate all the people who take the time and effort to place caches, good and bad, because what I think is a "stupid" cache, some one else might call a favorite. Let's enjoy caching and not try to dictate how others cache. Just my two cents.

 

We so appreciate all the people who take the time and effort to write posts, good and bad, because what I think is a "attitude" post, some one else might call a favorite. Let's enjoy posting and not try to dictate how others post. Just my two cents.

[knowschad]

<snip>

We so appreciate all the people who take the time and effort to place caches, good and bad, because what I think is a "stupid" cache, some one else might call a favorite. Let's enjoy caching and not try to dictate how others cache. Just my two cents.

 

We so appreciate all the people who take the time and effort to write posts, good and bad, because what I think is a "attitude" post, some one else might call a favorite. Let's enjoy posting and not try to dictate how others post. Just my two cents.

 

Good point!

[Mr.Yuck]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about geocacher attitude? Arguments about signing the log was simply an example of said attitude, and having this thread turn into another argument about signing the log isn't exactly helping matters, is it?

 

I have to +1 this one! Man, this is making the collective "us" look bad. Did Mr. T drop his Jeremy Irish quote from about a month ago that he is going to have locked and loaded on CTRL V for all eternity yet?

I have to admit that when I was looking for a picture of a puritan for post #15, I nearly used this one

 

I was going to say there's no picture here in your post when I view it, but when I quote you, I can see the URL, and went there. Very nice, I like it!! Except the way it tries to spell check geocaching.com

 

Edit: Gosh, I see it when I quote it, but I don't see it in Mr. T's post. What am I doing wrong here?

Edited September 2, 2011 by Mr.Yuck

[Mr.Yuck]

<snip>

We so appreciate all the people who take the time and effort to place caches, good and bad, because what I think is a "stupid" cache, some one else might call a favorite. Let's enjoy caching and not try to dictate how others cache. Just my two cents.

 

We so appreciate all the people who take the time and effort to write posts, good and bad, because what I think is a "attitude" post, some one else might call a favorite. Let's enjoy posting and not try to dictate how others post. Just my two cents.

 

Yes, I like this too. I said earlier some would consider the "anything goes" lecture of the OP a geocaching attitude itself. Hey, back on topic!!!

 

Oh, and sorry to see your evil twin changed their username.

[+toil&trouble]

Yes, I like this too. I said earlier some would consider the "anything goes" lecture of the OP a geocaching attitude itself. Hey, back on topic!!!

 

Just to defend my original post, I certainly didn't post an "anything goes lecture", I just asked why so many folks on the forums seem to feel that they need to be the geocache police and tell others how to play the game. No lecture, no sense of entitlement, just trying to remind folks that maybe the world would be a better place if we all worried about our own behavior. I supposed one could say that by asking the question, I am dictating someone else's behavior, certainly not my intent, just saying can we all show each other some respect?

[+DanOCan]

Understand what I am saying? You have no more right to tell me what is acceptable with my cache than I have to tell you with yours beyond the reasoning behind the minimum BOP.

 

Read back. No where did I say you were wrong, I simply stated how I handle things on my caches. I did say I don't understand why others think the way they do when it comes to signatures on a logbook as if it is a legal document, but no where did I attempt to tell you what you can or cannot do.

 

Could it be this is an example of the attitude the OP was refering to? (There, back on topic!)

[knowschad]

I just asked why so many folks on the forums seem to feel that they need to be the geocache police and tell others how to play the game.

 

I think you answered your own question there. Because there are so many folks on the forums.

[+Darick]

In most ways, I am in agreement with the OP. The geocachers I have met are really friendly and enjoy sharing their love for the game. On the forums, people often are judgmental and quite nasty. There is certainly a lot of leeway in the "rules" of geocaching, so everyone has their own opinions and ways of going about participating in geocaching. And this is where big egos get in the way and things become less friendly.

 

In regard to the log issue, however, I decided to look at the few guidelines there are to geocaching as posted here: http://www.geocaching.com/guide/default.aspx

 

At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

1. Register for a free Basic Membership.

2. Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

3. Enter your postal code and click "search."

4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

It would seem that signing the log book is not an optional or open to interpretation part of the game.

[+tozainamboku]

In most ways, I am in agreement with the OP. The geocachers I have met are really friendly and enjoy sharing their love for the game. On the forums, people often are judgmental and quite nasty. There is certainly a lot of leeway in the "rules" of geocaching, so everyone has their own opinions and ways of going about participating in geocaching. And this is where big egos get in the way and things become less friendly.

 

In regard to the log issue, however, I decided to look at the few guidelines there are to geocaching as posted here: http://www.geocaching.com/guide/default.aspx

 

At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

1. Register for a free Basic Membership.

2. Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

3. Enter your postal code and click "search."

4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

It would seem that signing the log book is not an optional or open to interpretation part of the game.

Are you serious? Must I really enter my postal code and click search every time I find a cache? Must I enter the coordinates of the geocache intom my GPS device and use my GPS device to assist me in finding the hidden geocache? I suppose everyone using the cell phone app is a cheater?

 

Nonsense. What you found are instructions for someone new to geocaching, not formal rules. I suppose the idea is that if you follows these as a beginner you won't be surprised if you get a cache owner who insists on deleting your online log if you didn't sign the log. Of course the steps don't say anything about logging online finds, they only talk about sharing your geocaching stories and photos online. I'd like to think that even if you don't find that first cache, beginners will go on the site an log a DNF to share their story.

 

There is no rule that says you must sign the physical log in order to log a find online. This is a fact, not my opinion. However, as the guidelines are written, cache owners should delete online logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate. Cache owners may use the signature in the log as evidence that a find is not bogus. They can delete the online found log if the physical was not signed and they are unwilling to accept other proof. I suppose that means that if you get a cache owner like this, signing the log is a requirement for logging a find online - but it is not a Groundspeak requirement.

 

Now I'll give you the reason why I sign the physical log whenever I am able to do so. Signing the physical log confirms to me that I found the cache and not a decoy or something else. It confirms that I met any special physical challenge that the cache owner made part of this cache; though I may have done so in a manner other than the cache owner intended (e.g., by using a tool or my trained tree climbing monkey). It allows me to see who else has visited the cache (and in fact is the only way to know if I got a FTF). And least of all (but still important), it leaves proof that I found the cache for the cache owner and other cachers that come after me.

Edited September 2, 2011 by tozainamboku

[knowschad]

There is no rule that says you must sign the log online in order to log a find online. This is a fact, not my opinion.

 

It's alright, Toz... we know what you meant.

[+the4dirtydogs]

In most ways, I am in agreement with the OP. The geocachers I have met are really friendly and enjoy sharing their love for the game. On the forums, people often are judgmental and quite nasty. There is certainly a lot of leeway in the "rules" of geocaching, so everyone has their own opinions and ways of going about participating in geocaching. And this is where big egos get in the way and things become less friendly.

 

In regard to the log issue, however, I decided to look at the few guidelines there are to geocaching as posted here: http://www.geocaching.com/guide/default.aspx

 

At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

1. Register for a free Basic Membership.

2. Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

3. Enter your postal code and click "search."

4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

It would seem that signing the log book is not an optional or open to interpretation part of the game.

Are you serious? Must I really enter my postal code and click search every time I find a cache? Must I enter the coordinates of the geocache intom my GPS device and use my GPS device to assist me in finding the hidden geocache? I suppose everyone using the cell phone app is a cheater?

 

Nonsense. What you found are instructions for someone new to geocaching, not formal rules. I suppose the idea is that if you follows these as a beginner you won't be surprised if you get a cache owner who insists on deleting your online log if you didn't sign the log. Of course the steps don't say anything about logging online finds, they only talk about sharing your geocaching stories and photos online. I'd like to think that even if you don't find that first cache, beginners will go on the site an log a DNF to share their story.

 

There is no rule that says you must sign the physical log in order to log a find online. This is a fact, not my opinion. However, as the guidelines are written, cache owners should delete online logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate. Cache owners may use the signature in the log as evidence that a find is not bogus. They can delete the online found log if the physical was not signed and they are unwilling to accept other proof. I suppose that means that if you get a cache owner like this, signing the log is a requirement for logging a find online - but it is not a Groundspeak requirement.

 

Now I'll give you the reason why I sign the physical log whenever I am able to do so. Signing the physical log confirms to me that I found the cache and not a decoy or something else. It confirms that I met any special physical challenge that the cache owner made part of this cache; though I may have done so in a manner other than the cache owner intended (e.g., by using a tool or my trained tree climbing monkey). It allows me to see who else has visited the cache (and in fact is the only way to know if I got a FTF). And least of all (but still important), it leaves proof that I found the cache for the cache owner and other cachers that come after me.

You left out..........."That's not what you think it means." I remember you telling me that once, when I was in a discussion with you on this.

Edited September 2, 2011 by the4dirtydogs

[+tozainamboku]

There is no rule that says you must sign the log online in order to log a find online. This is a fact, not my opinion.

 

It's alright, Toz... we know what you meant.

I fixed it before you posted.

[knowschad]

There is no rule that says you must sign the log online in order to log a find online. This is a fact, not my opinion.

 

It's alright, Toz... we know what you meant.

I fixed it before you posted.

Quoted it before you fixed it.

[+EraSeek]

I don't ever trade swag, so what difference does it make if I open the container or not?

 

Signing the logbook is one of the key actions when finding a Geocache, at least according to most cachers, and the guidelines.

 

While I think relatively few cache owners audit the logbooks, there are some who do. Just be prepared if you don't sign the physical logbook, to get a few finds deleted. If you're ok with that, then cool. Otherwise you might want to either sign the logbooks, or just not log the caches online.

 

If you want to keep a record of your finds then you could always post a note instead of a "found it" log on those caches where you don't sign the logbook.

I totally agree. (by the way I don't trade swag either). I'm not being mean, but not leaveing your sig in the cache means it is not a find by you. It is the one thing that is a must in my book and most veteran cachers. If you don't take the time or effort to sign the log, please don't try and log it as a find. If you see it but can't retrieve it, well I put it out of reach for a reason; it is suppose to be a challenge! Can't log it, then don't! Log a note or a DNF instead. Numbers aren't everything. If it's too risky or dangerous for your ability, please don't risk it, you health and wellbeing is not worth any cache find. Sometimes the journey is the real purpose of the cache anyway, so enjoy the day, don't obsess on your stats. Nobody really cares that much about yours, just their own. But the one thing I do care about is the integrity of the game and my caches. So please sign the log or don't log it as a find.

[+Darick]

Nonsense. What you found are instructions for someone new to geocaching, not formal rules.

...

There is no rule that says you must sign the physical log in order to log a find online. This is a fact, not my opinion. However, as the guidelines are written, cache owners should delete online logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate. Cache owners may use the signature in the log as evidence that a find is not bogus. They can delete the online found log if the physical was not signed and they are unwilling to accept other proof. I suppose that means that if you get a cache owner like this, signing the log is a requirement for logging a find online - but it is not a Groundspeak requirement.

 

That's a good point, tozainamboku... seems like I am misreading the word "requires". I see your angle that these are instructions to a new geocacher and not rules. The next section down is labelled "rules".

 

What are the rules of geocaching?

1. If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

So... if you don't "write" in the cache logbook, are you not breaking the rules?

Edited September 2, 2011 by Darick

[+GeoGeeBee]

Nonsense. What you found are instructions for someone new to geocaching, not formal rules.

...

There is no rule that says you must sign the physical log in order to log a find online. This is a fact, not my opinion. However, as the guidelines are written, cache owners should delete online logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate. Cache owners may use the signature in the log as evidence that a find is not bogus. They can delete the online found log if the physical was not signed and they are unwilling to accept other proof. I suppose that means that if you get a cache owner like this, signing the log is a requirement for logging a find online - but it is not a Groundspeak requirement.

 

That's a good point, tozainamboku... seems like I am misreading the word "requires". I see your angle that these are instructions to a new geocacher and not rules. The next section down is labelled "rules".

 

What are the rules of geocaching?

1. If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

So... if you don't "write" in the cache logbook, are you not breaking the rules?

So, then microcaches are not within the "rules of geocaching?" None of them has any kind of a logbook where I can write about my find. They just have some stupid strip of paper that barely has room for my initials.

 

I guess logging those is against the rules, then?

[knowschad]

Nonsense. What you found are instructions for someone new to geocaching, not formal rules.

...

There is no rule that says you must sign the physical log in order to log a find online. This is a fact, not my opinion. However, as the guidelines are written, cache owners should delete online logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate. Cache owners may use the signature in the log as evidence that a find is not bogus. They can delete the online found log if the physical was not signed and they are unwilling to accept other proof. I suppose that means that if you get a cache owner like this, signing the log is a requirement for logging a find online - but it is not a Groundspeak requirement.

 

That's a good point, tozainamboku... seems like I am misreading the word "requires". I see your angle that these are instructions to a new geocacher and not rules. The next section down is labelled "rules".

 

What are the rules of geocaching?

1. If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

So... if you don't "write" in the cache logbook, are you not breaking the rules?

So, then microcaches are not within the "rules of geocaching?" None of them has any kind of a logbook where I can write about my find. They just have some stupid strip of paper that barely has room for my initials.

 

I guess logging those is against the rules, then?

Date and initials are "writing about your find".

[+GeoGeeBee]

Date and initials are "writing about your find".

 

Not really. Writing about your find is writing about your find. A date and initials is just a date and initials. It really doesn't tell you anything, except that on a certain date someone was there. It doesn't even tell you who that someone was. I'm not the only cacher around here with the initials "GGB" for example.

[knowschad]

Date and initials are "writing about your find".

 

Not really. Writing about your find is writing about your find. A date and initials is just a date and initials. It really doesn't tell you anything, except that on a certain date someone was there. It doesn't even tell you who that someone was. I'm not the only cacher around here with the initials "GGB" for example.

 

Yes, really. It says, "I found this cache today". That is writing about the cache (or, your experience, as it says elsewhere)

 

The bottom line is that Groundspeak has deliberately left some points vague. They are fully aware, of course, of these endless debates, and if they had an opinion that they wished to force on us, they could very easily have clarified these points. I know what my guidelines are, both for my finds, and for my hides.

Edited September 2, 2011 by knowschad

[+tozainamboku]

That's a good point, tozainamboku... seems like I am misreading the word "requires". I see your angle that these are instructions to a new geocacher and not rules. The next section down is labelled "rules".

 

What are the rules of geocaching?

1. If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

So... if you don't "write" in the cache logbook, are you not breaking the rules?

Sure, but then if you don't log your experience at www.geocaching.com you are breaking the rules too. I just don't see that much angst over the many people who find geocaches yet don't log them online. And of course it still says nothing to tie an online find log to writing in the log book unless you decide there is some significance to the ordering of the rules. But then would it be cheating to write in the logbook first and then trade?

 

The three rules have a long history. As some have pointed out signing the logbook has been part of geocaching since before it was called geocaching. In his announcement of the first geostash hide, Dave Ulmer wrote instructions for finders of the stash: "Take some stuff, leave

some stuff! Record it all in the log book. Have Fun!"

 

These instructions for the first geocache were adopted in the first FAQ on Geocaching.com

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

1. Take something from the cache

 

2. Leave something in the cache

 

3. Write about it in the logbook

Not even a mention of logging online.

 

It wasn't till mid 2008 that Groundspeak changed these rules. By then, trading was not as big a part of the game and many micros had no room for swag. So Groundspeak made the the trading optional and added the concept (which had been around for a while) of trading even or up. Perhaps since three rules sounds better than two, they added a rule to log your experience at www.geocaching.com. I like to note that it says "log your experience", not "log your find", and that there is no connection between writing about it the log book and logging online. Even if you don't find a cache you can still log your experience on www.geocaching.com.

 

Again I don't think these can be read as formal rules, but even if they are they don't equate signing the physical log with finding the cache. Signing the physical log is just one of several things you are supposed to do when you find the cache. But sometimes the physical log ends up not being signed for one reason or another: no pen, log sheet too wet to write on, log sheet missing, log sheet full, cache container malfunction so it can't be opened, or even just forgot. The issue then becomes whether logging your experience online includes using the Found It log. Some people will log notes if they didn't sign the log. But this is a personal choice. Nowhere does it say they you cannot log a find online if you did not sign the physical log.

[MisterEFQ]

So anyways..............geocachers attitudes. So far the only ones I dont like ive meet online. Ive been to two events and besides most people not willing to talk to the new people, the ones I did speak to were nice.

[+tozainamboku]

The bottom line is that Groundspeak has deliberately left some points vague. They are fully aware, of course, of these endless debates, and if they had an opinion that they wished to force on us, they could very easily have clarified these points. I know what my guidelines are, both for my finds, and for my hides.

In my opinion, thing are vague because they are not formal rules or even guidelines. They're simply instructions to explain what geocaching is and describe common practice when a cache is found. In fact, not an opinion, common practice is to write in the physical logbook when you find the cache. Usually at least your name and the date, but on nano and the like, often just your initials.

 

I think this says it best

Bickering over the rules of a cache "find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find.

[+GeoBain]

I'm not being mean, but not leaveing your sig in the cache means it is not a find by you.

 

I'm not being mean, but not leaving your sig in the cache means it is not a find to EraSeek (and some others). What really matters is what it means to the finder, what it means to the cache owner, and whether or not the finder minds if anyone else counts it as a valid find.

[knowschad]

The bottom line is that Groundspeak has deliberately left some points vague. They are fully aware, of course, of these endless debates, and if they had an opinion that they wished to force on us, they could very easily have clarified these points. I know what my guidelines are, both for my finds, and for my hides.

In my opinion, thing are vague because they are not formal rules or even guidelines. They're simply instructions to explain what geocaching is and describe common practice when a cache is found. In fact, not an opinion, common practice is to write in the physical logbook when you find the cache. Usually at least your name and the date, but on nano and the like, often just your initials.

 

I think this says it best

Bickering over the rules of a cache "find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find.

 

I agree with all that you said, except that I don't like to see Jeremy's opinion quoted as final word of geocaching, the activity. His is but one opinion, no better, no worse than yours or mine. Now, geocaching, the website... that he is an expert on.

[+dprovan]

Okay, so you sign every single log, and don't count a find unless you can physically sign the log, what does it matter if someone else sees the cache, has their hand on the cache, but doesn't feel the need to sign the log? I don't ever trade swag, so what difference does it make if I open the container or not?

Have you've ever encountered a fake cache where you open the container and, instead of a log, find a note that says, "Try again" or "Were you really expecting it to be that easy?"

 

Anyway, the answer your actual question about attitude is "religion". You can ignore them just as you ignore similarly rabid Christians or atheists, depending on your tastes. That's just how the Web works; it's not specific to geocaching. In the forums, it's water off your back. In the field, the CO's the one that enforces the rules as he sees fit.

 

Oh, and always carry a pen...

 

-don

[+niraD]

Our chief problem is perceived anonymity... perceived anonymity and lack of non-verbal cues... lack of non-verbal cues and perceived anonymity...

 

Our two problems are perceived anonymity and lack of non-verbal cues... and sloppy reading and writing...

 

Our three problems are perceived anonymity, lack of non-verbal cues, and sloppy reading and writing... and an almost fanatical conviction that someone is wrong on the internet...

 

Our four... no... Amongst our problems.... Amongst our problems... are such elements as perceived anonymity, lack of non-verbal cues...

 

I'll come in again...

[+Vater_Araignee]

So, then microcaches are not within the "rules of geocaching?" None of them has any kind of a logbook where I can write about my find. They just have some stupid strip of paper that barely has room for my initials.

 

I guess logging those is against the rules, then?

Now now. You know that writing "GGB 9-2-11" (or what ever truncation version you use) is writing about the find. It may not have excruciating detail but it is about the find.