Geocaching Chirp Transmitter

[knowschad]

I find the existence of Chirp caches quite irritating, as I do not own a top-of-the-line Garmin device.

I own a top-of-the-line Garmin device called a GPS 60CSx. Can't receive chirps, but it sure can receive sat signals like nobody's business, and that's good enough for me.

[+Avernar]

The dongle that works with the iPhone is expensive presumably because of the ANT+ licensing fee aid to Garmin.

Still cheaper than a new GPSr that supports ANT+. And the dongle can be used for other purposes so if you've bought it to work with the heart rate monitor you get Chirp functionality for the price of the Chirp app.

[jholly]

I find the existence of Chirp caches quite irritating, as I do not own a top-of-the-line Garmin device.

Think how an owner of a top of the line Magellan or Delorme feels.

[+kunarion]

I find the existence of Chirp caches quite irritating, as I do not own a top-of-the-line Garmin device.

Think how an owner of a top of the line Magellan or Delorme feels.

Even with a proper Garmin, Chirps are very iffy. If the battery "lasts a year", you certainly need to replace it more often (before it begins to die), and you can walk right past it without getting the data if you walk fast. It's just geeky fun (for the CO who places it). I've only had the nerve to make a car TB out of it. If I make a Chirp cache, it'll have an alternate way of finding. Just in case.

Edited September 3, 2011 by kunarion

[+ATXTracker]

Even with a proper Garmin, Chirps are very iffy. If the battery "lasts a year", you certainly need to replace it more often ...

 

This is not true. The poster doesn't claim to have any Chirp caches; I have three and all are now working more than a year on the original battery, as promised.

 

... and you can walk right past it without getting the data if you walk fast.

 

I suppose this is possible, but not likely if you post coordinates for the Chirp like Garmin/Geocaching suggest. You would go to those coordinates and wait, not walk by. I have had many logs that indicate they are working just as expected; even for first time Chirp-finders.

 

Sorry for the rebuttal post, but I admit that I get a little fussy when I see posts that are inaccurate or not logical.

Edited September 5, 2011 by ATXTracker

[+kunarion]

Even with a proper Garmin, Chirps are very iffy. If the battery "lasts a year", you certainly need to replace it more often ...

 

This is not true. The poster doesn't claim to have any Chirp caches; I have three and all are now working more than a year on the original battery, as promised.

 

... and you can walk right past it without getting the data if you walk fast.

 

I suppose this is possible, but not likely if you post coordinates for the Chirp like Garmin/Geocaching suggest. You would go to those coordinates and wait, not walk by. I have had many logs that indicate they are working just as expected; even for first time Chirp-finders.

 

Sorry for the rebuttal post, but I admit that I get a little fussy when I see posts that are inaccurate or not logical.

 

I've had some pretty bad reliability issues with my Chirps (and that's disregarding other peoples' horror stories). But how long are you planning to wait til changing the battery? I intend to swap it every 6 months (although the one in my car is at 6 months and admittedly I haven't done any particular range test on it in about 2 months).

 

My first idea was to place it in range of a park bench. People could sit there and Chirp for a while (plus it would have coords physically hidden in a tough way for when cachers couldn't receive the signal for whatever reason). But my favorite plan was to place it on the trail so you'd walk from Point A to Point B, and get new data enroute. I had to abandon that, since it just plain doesn't work very well. It's not just the transmitter, there are a bazillion other variables.

[+pppingme]

Even with a proper Garmin, Chirps are very iffy. If the battery "lasts a year", you certainly need to replace it more often ...

This is not true. The poster doesn't claim to have any Chirp caches; I have three and all are now working more than a year on the original battery, as promised.

I've always found Garmin's battery estimates to be pretty accurate, so your experience doesn't really surprise me. What does surprise me is that those little things last so long on a little cr2032 battery.

[+rjb43nh]

Fizzymagic-"I find the existence of Chirp caches quite irritating, as I do not own a top-of-the-line Garmin device."

Could you please make it clear what irritates you, the mere existence of Chirp caches, or the fact that you don't have a high end Garmin to find them.

[AZcachemeister]

Fizzymagic-"I find the existence of Chirp caches quite irritating, as I do not own a top-of-the-line Garmin device."

Could you please make it clear what irritates you, the mere existence of Chirp caches, or the fact that you don't have a high end Garmin to find them.

 

Not speaking for Fizzy here, but I share the sentiment.

I'm irritated at the (apparent) requirement to own a high-end (expense-wise, not necessarily quality-wise) Garmin GPSr.

As I have stated before, the CHIRP was created to sell more high-end GPSrs.

Those cachers who use them (without alternate means of getting the numbers) are being sucked into a marketing ploy.

Fortunately it really doesn't seem very effective (at least here in AZ).

[+pppingme]

So does a cache that requires a boat, rope climbing gear, a flashlight, or other equipment, do you feel the same about those?

 

If not, then it seems there is a double standard and resentment against garmin for some reason.

[+ATXTracker]

But how long are you planning to wait til changing the battery? I intend to swap it every 6 months ...

 

Good question. It is probably a good idea to preemptively change them, but I'm also curious how long they could last. I hate to wait until a DNF to find out.

[+rjb43nh]

AZcachemeister-“… I'm irritated at the (apparent) requirement to own a high-end (expense-wise, not necessarily quality-wise) Garmin GPSr.

As I have stated before, the CHIRP was created to sell more high-end GPSrs.

Those cachers who use them (without alternate means of getting the numbers) are being sucked into a marketing ploy.

Fortunately it really doesn't seem very effective (at least here in AZ).”

That logic is the kinda like saying a dog is an animal with 4 legs; a cat has 4 legs; therefore a cat is a dog. I’m sure that many cachers who have bought the Chirp capable Garmins did so for their other worthwhile features and their decision had nothing to do with Chirps instead of the other way round. The fact that Chirp caches are now starting to appear in my area never was a factor in my decision to buy the 62s. I owned my Garmin 62s for over 7 months before I used it to find a Chirp, or even knew what a Chirp really was. I guess that I don’t see everything as a conspiracy or a marketing ploy. I view the fact that I can now use my existing 62s to find a new type of cache as a neat feature and a bonus. I can, however, see why Magellan or Delorme owners would say: “shut up and deal.”

 

If you don’t like Chirp caches and don’t want to spend money to get that feature (or the many others that come with a high end unit), let others who do choose to cache that way do so. Oh, and by the way, can I expect to hear a rant on the Delorme PN60W / SPOT combo that does non-cache things other GPSs can’t do?

[+Vater_Araignee]

So does a cache that requires a boat, rope climbing gear, a flashlight, or other equipment, do you feel the same about those?

 

If not, then it seems there is a double standard and resentment against garmin for some reason.

I'm not against them, but I am against a cache that requires I use:

 

A boat made by Smoker Craft.

A cache requiring Mammut climbing gear.

A cache requiring a Maglite.

Or any cache requiring a specific brand of equipment.

[+pppingme]

So use the unit from Magellin, Google (for androids), tom-tom, or whoever else is out there making an equivalent competing product.

 

There's no such restrictions in place.

[+ATXTracker]

Chirps no longer require a Garmin. You can interact with Chirps via your iphone now as well. You do not have to buy a Garmin.

 

http://www.torontogeocaching.com/2011/08/09/geobeacon-garmin-chirp-on-an-iphone-or-ipad/

[AZcachemeister]

Chirps no longer require a Garmin. You can interact with Chirps via your iphone now as well. You do not have to buy a Garmin.

 

http://www.torontogeocaching.com/2011/08/09/geobeacon-garmin-chirp-on-an-iphone-or-ipad/

 

So I need to buy an iphone, that's a BIG improvement!

[AZcachemeister]

So does a cache that requires a boat, rope climbing gear, a flashlight, or other equipment, do you feel the same about those?

 

If not, then it seems there is a double standard and resentment against garmin for some reason.

I'm not against them, but I am against a cache that requires I use:

 

A boat made by Smoker Craft.

A cache requiring Mammut climbing gear.

A cache requiring a Maglite.

Or any cache requiring a specific brand of equipment.

 

EXACTLY

 

I'm not absolutely against them, especially since (as a PM) I can ignore them.

Too bad for the poor Basic Member who has to keep seeing one as their nearest unfound cache...that they can never find.

 

People complain about PM caches being elitist, but these IMNSHO truly ARE elitist.

[+barryadams307]

What's wrong with maglights ???

[+kunarion]

So does a cache that requires a boat, rope climbing gear, a flashlight, or other equipment, do you feel the same about those?

 

If not, then it seems there is a double standard and resentment against garmin for some reason.

I'm not against them, but I am against a cache that requires I use:

 

A boat made by Smoker Craft.

A cache requiring Mammut climbing gear.

A cache requiring a Maglite.

Or any cache requiring a specific brand of equipment.

 

EXACTLY

 

I'm not absolutely against them, especially since (as a PM) I can ignore them.

Too bad for the poor Basic Member who has to keep seeing one as their nearest unfound cache...that they can never find.

 

People complain about PM caches being elitist, but these IMNSHO truly ARE elitist.

 

Everyone has a place in the world. Not everyone can be the elite, with the ability to find Chirps, and be as handsome, suave and intelligent as me. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Just admiring us from afar is fine.

 

But I'm betting many Chirp caches will have alternate ways of finding the cache. If I set one up, it would include separate hidden coords, not because I want to include the non-elite, but because the Chirp is certainly not going to be functioning 100% of the time. I don't want to disable a cache due to dead Chirp.

Edited September 7, 2011 by kunarion

[+fizzymagic]

So use the unit from Magellin, Google (for androids), tom-tom, or whoever else is out there making an equivalent competing product.

 

There's no such restrictions in place.

 

Oh really? You seem not to be aware that the Chirp technology is owned by Garmin, and that a Garmin GPS (or, more recently, an iPhone with an expensive attachment licensed by Garmin) is required to find them.

 

Of course, you would know this if you had read the thread before spouting off, but I guess my expectations are too high.

 

My objection to the Chirp caches is that they require one to pay a licensing fee to Garmin. As such, they are commercial caches and should not be allowed under the guidelines.

 

To clear up any future confusion:

 

From here:

The company behind ANT is Dynastream Innovations Inc. Dynastream was established in 1998 and became a wholly owned subsidiary of Garmin® Ltd. in December 2006.

 

Chirp uses ANT+, which is a communications protocol built on top of the ANT protocol. From here:

To access the technical documentation of ANT+, including the ANT+ Device Profiles, you must become an ANT+ Adopter.

 

In short, the technology is proprietary, owned and licensed by Garmin. So no more posts about how you don't have to pay Garmin to find Chirp caches, OK?

[+pppingme]

ANT is proprietary, homing beacons (what the chirp essentially is) are nothing new, and the basic concept isn't protected by any patent, therefore no reason to keep anyone else from developing a competing product.

 

All androids have wifi and bluetooth built in, many even have rfid readers, most also have fm tuners built in, same true for iphones, and some mix of these technologies is in other gps receivers. There's no reason that some type of homing beacon couldn't be built around one of these technologies.

 

It all comes down to someone seeing an application and putting the pieces together.

 

There is absolutely nothing new in the "chirp", its a homing beacon (concept that has been around since someone figured out how to transmit an rf signal), and communication protocol (ant), no new concepts, just a mix of existing technologies in a creative way.

[+rjb43nh]

There are now about 365 member companies in the ANT+ Alliance (check the link for more info) that allows members to develop hardware using the ANT+ protocol and one of the alliance companies is Magellan (MiTAC Digital Corporation). Perhaps Magellan is looking into the possibility of adding this feature to some future unit. For Magellan owners, maybe all good things come to those who wait.

 

If and when Magellan comes out with a Chirp capable model I’m sure that feature will also come with a premium price and cries of elitism directed toward owners of those super Magellans will be heard.

 

Fizzymagic-"...My objection to the Chirp caches is that they require one to pay a licensing fee to Garmin. As such, they are commercial caches and should not be allowed under the guidelines...."

That statement is incorrect or specious. I have found a few Chirp caches and I haven't had to pay Garmin any licensing fee so these obviously aren't commercial caches.

[+fizzymagic]

That statement is incorrect or specious. I have found a few Chirp caches and I haven't had to pay Garmin any licensing fee so these obviously aren't commercial caches.

 

Really? You found them without Garmin hardware? How did you do that?

 

My argument is not specious. Garmin-licensed hardware is required to find Chirp caches. I really don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people? Maybe you think that all GPS units are made by Garmin and you just don't know any better? That's the most charitable interpretation I can think of.

[+fizzymagic]

There is absolutely nothing new in the "chirp", its a homing beacon (concept that has been around since someone figured out how to transmit an rf signal), and communication protocol (ant), no new concepts, just a mix of existing technologies in a creative way.

 

Just a suggestion: you might want to, er, FIND a chirp cache before posting more nonsense into this thread. It will make you look a lot less ignorant.

 

Chirp caches are not homing beacons, for example.

[+rjb43nh]

fizzymagic-"Really? You found them without Garmin hardware? How did you do that?

 

My argument is not specious. Garmin-licensed hardware is required to find Chirp caches. I really don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people? Maybe you think that all GPS units are made by Garmin and you just don't know any better? That's the most charitable interpretation I can think of."

 

I have previously stated that I use a Garmin 62s for geocaching. I repeat, I have never paid a licensing fee to find a Chirp, maybe the cache owners send the bills out later.

 

Perhaps you should read what I and others actually say instead of continually resorting to your conspiracy theory non-logic and sophomoric insults. For you to try to insult everyone who disagrees with you is the sign of the intellectually bankrupt. For you to say “Maybe you think that all GPS units are made by Garmin and you just don't know any better “ is humorous at best, ignorant at least. I own GPS receivers ranging from early commercial Sony Pyxis and Magellan NAV 5000 to HP Z3801, Odetics, Trimble Thunderbolt, and some other specialized units for time and frequency research.

 

You previously stated: “I tend to get snarky when somebody "corrects" me with incorrect information. …. I expect people posting supposedly factual information in the forums to have done their homework.”

 

You would do well to follow your own advice, stick to the facts, and keep the insults to yourself.

[+pppingme]

Just a suggestion: you might want to, er, FIND a chirp cache before posting more nonsense into this thread. It will make you look a lot less ignorant.

 

Chirp caches are not homing beacons, for example.

I HAVE found chirps.

 

A homing beacon is very simply something that sends out a signal, usually an identification of itself, and repeats as needed.

 

Whats a chirp do? It sends out either a message (such as a hint), an identifier (usually a gc code) or a set of static (pre-programmed) coordinates, or a combination of these three.

 

In the case of a garmin chirp, it uses the ant protocol, the thing you seem fixated on for some reason, you seem very anti-garmin.

 

The reality, anyone could easily develop a competing product, use blue-tooth, a wi-fi mini web server, an fm transmitter, or any other communication protocol supported by androids, and not step on Garmin's toes at all.

 

Garmin came up with a very cool concept, period. I'm not saying it was implemented the best, but lets be realistic, ant was already being built into garmin receivers, and now even some of the lowly etrex units have it, and as far as I can find, no other manufacturer of hand-held (outdoor) gps units had the foresight to build any type of communications into their units, be it ant, blue-tooth, or even a very simple fm receiver (yeah, some car units have blue-tooth, but no hand-helds I've found).

[+riffraff9000]

What's wrong with maglights ???

 

As an admitted flashlight geek, I find this funny.

 

Dude, there's a whole world of better, often cheaper, flashlights out there that put Maglights to shame, in lumens (more), weight (less), durability (greater), runtime (longer), and cost (less).

 

Start here.

 

Never quit learning.

[+Abcede97]

My Non Premium Iphone app "Rang"/ "Beeped" when I was close to a cache.

But when I upgraded to Premium, that stopped, & I really miss that.

I am interested in anything like that, but from the "cachee" point.

I agree $20.00 per cache could get pricey, especially if muggled.

[+justmeg]

I solved a puzzle cache tonight and planned to go and get it, and discovered it needs a wireless beacon. On reading this thread I see iphone has geobeacon. I use an Android phone that has ANT. Does anyone know if there is a app for android yet that will read or interact with the chirp? I'm going to have to file a DNF if I can't get one because I'm not getting a GPS device yet and I don't know anyone with a GPS, let alone whether it would be chirp enabled.

[+St.Matthew]

Yes, a way to access chirps for Android users would be nice.

[kf4tap]

Anyone used this yet ?? Or know anything about it ???

This will change geocaching in a big way and it's only 20$

 

Chirps (wireless beacons) have been around for a while now. I've found one cache with a Chirp. My GPSr (60CSx) doesn't receive them, though, nor do non-Garmin units.

 

There is now a special attribute for wireless beacon caches, too:

 

I don't think they are taking off very well, though. Few people are willing to leave a $20 piece of electronics out in the environment.

[kf4tap]

sounds like Ham radio beacons, esp the ones used for fox hunts.

[kf4tap]

I'm thought of building some cheap little beacons to use with / in conjunction with some caches. A hand-held receiver with a directional antenna can get you as close as a GPS. A solar yard light will recharge the batts. output would be about 20Mw's

[+SirDonB]

I solved a puzzle cache tonight and planned to go and get it, and discovered it needs a wireless beacon. On reading this thread I see iphone has geobeacon. I use an Android phone that has ANT. Does anyone know if there is a app for android yet that will read or interact with the chirp? I'm going to have to file a DNF if I can't get one because I'm not getting a GPS device yet and I don't know anyone with a GPS, let alone whether it would be chirp enabled.

 

Try these for Androids:

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.fun2code.android.cachebeacon&hl=en

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dsi.ant.antplusdemo