Deleting found caches from Oregon

[+toil&trouble]

Okay, we've been using our Oregon for quite a while and have never had this problem. I can't get rid of my finds! I am using a MAC, not a PC. I connect the OR using USB, go to the GARMIN folder, move the "visits_text" file to the trash, then go to the GPX folder, move the "archive" and "current" folders to the trash, then empty the trash. But when I disconnect the GPSr and turn it on, my "recently found" are still there. THis is driving me nuts! Any idea what I'm doing wrong? Also, I noticed that when I move GPX files to the trash, it doesn't clear up any storage room on the device. Not a big deal, but sometimes we like to load the PQ to our NUVI, but it tells me there's no room. It seems that moving a file to the trash is not actually deleting it, just hiding it? Anybody have MAC expertise???

[+t4e]

you can't delete individual caches from the Oregon, when you load a new PQ it will override the old data and thus get rid of the already found caches

Edited August 31, 2011 by t4e

[+toil&trouble]

I know that I can't delete caches directly from the Oregon, that's not what I'm trying to do. If I run a PQ and go out caching, come home and log, then go out the next day, I don't want to have to run a new PQ. Shouldn't deleting the "found" caches on my Mac actually get rid of them???

[+t4e]

no, its exactly the same thing ...you can not manually delete caches on the oregon from the oregon or from PC, only q ne PQ will do that...the geocache visits its just file used to upload field notes

[+EdrickV]

You could try emptying the trash out and updating your firmware.

http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/Computer+Transfer#GeocacheDelete

[+ecanderson]

I swear I'm going to keep posting this same long explanation every time until the moderators create a sticky. We're now averaging more than once a week!

 

To the OP - in addition to the info below, please visit http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/Geocaching

 

 

Caches are loaded to the unit by placing one or more gpx files into the Garmin/GPX folder of the unit. A gpx file may contain information one or more than one cache. The total number of gpx files is limited to 200, and the permitted total number of caches represented in the 'one or more' gpx files varies with the unit model. A unit might handle 2000 or 5000 caches. Filenames can be whatever you prefer so long as they retain the *.gpx suffix.

 

When a gpx file is loaded to the Garmin/GPX directory, it is 'discovered' by the unit as new if there is any hint of difference between this gpx file and what was in that folder during the last power up of the unit. So much as a tick of difference in the time stamp causes the unit to recognize this as a new file. What happens when a 'new' file is found? We'll get back to that in a moment.

 

There are three 'databases' of cache information held in the unit.

• #1 is the gpx file that is the original source for cache information. Note that at NO time does the unit modify the gpx file. It is retained AS LOADED by the user.
• #2 is an internal table of caches that you CANNOT see - it is not part of the unit's visible file system, and you will not find it by connecting the unit to a computer.
• #3 is a text file (geocache_visits.txt) that is created when a cache is logged (found, not found, etc.). All cache logs are appended to that file until it is deleted by the user. It is into the lines of this text file that any 'field notes' are also appended.

Taking the simplest of models, we'll work with a single gpx cache file created from a Pocket Query. When the gpx file (#1) is moved to the Garmin/GPX directory and the unit is booted, this new gpx file is discovered by the unit. ALL previous knowledge of found/not-found caches is at this time deleted from the internal table (#2, above). The unit now recreates its internal #2 table with slots for each of the caches found in the gpx file, and each slot retains certain current information about the cache, including its found/not-found state, even through power down/up cycles.

 

[Note: In the event that more than one gpx file is loaded, and data for any cache is found in more than one of the loaded gpx files, the design intent seems to have been that the most recent data (from whichever file) should be used. In practice, it seems to work that way most of the time, but not all of the time. ONLY ONE internal slot (#2) is created for a cache even if it is found in more than one loaded gpx file].

 

Go into the field. Look for a cache. Log the cache as found.

 

• As stated previously, the gpx file (#1) is NOT touched.
• The slot for this cache in the unit's internal table (#2) has the 'found' bit set. You'll see it as found on the map, and "Show Found" is the only way to bring it up in the cache list again.
• A record is appended to the geocache_visits.txt (#3) file for this log.

Things continue as described above as caches are found (or not) and logged. The gpx file is untouched, the internal table keeps getting updated with found/not-found information, and the geocache_visits.txt log file keeps getting bigger.

 

Items to know...

First - There is NO mechanism for deleting individual caches from the control panel of the unit. This same bloody question gets asked at least once a week in these forums, is politely answered by someone, is already well defined in the old Oregon Wiki, and frankly, isn't that hard to find in these threads if people would read them. You cannot delete a found cache from the unit's control panel. You cannot delete an unfound cache from the unit's control panel.

Second - There is NO mechanism for reading or editing your geocache_visits.txt field notes from the control panel of the unit after you complete the entry. This question comes up fairly frequently as well.

 

If you forgot to add a field note or need to add additional field note information to a cache you've already logged as found, you can select "Geocaches" / "Show Found", select the cache that you have already found, and create another log (even an "unattempted" log) for it and add more field note information. That WILL create a duplicate log for this cache, and you need to pay attention to that if you are using the gc.com field notes feature so that you don't accidentally double log the cache, but at least it's a way to get more information recorded rather than relying upon memory. If you logged the cache as "Not Found", you can simply repeat the "Not Found" and add more field note data. Again, you need to manage the fact that there will now be two Not Found entries in the field notes.

 

If you log as found by accident, using "Show Found", reselect the cache. "Log Attempt" again, but this time, log it as "Did Not Find". This will do two things. First, it will place it BACK into the list of unfound caches again such that you will see it when looking at the list of unfound caches. It will also cause the map icon to revert to the 'unfound' icon. There is a 3rd effect that you'll have to remember -- the geocache_visits.txt file will now contain TWO logs for this cache. The first will be a "found" log, and the second the "didn't find" log. You will need to manage this manually by deleting the unnecessary log if you upload your field notes to gc.com.

 

Managing geocache_visits.txt:

 

Right. Done caching for now. Go home, hook up, and upload the field notes (geocache_visits.txt) file. Manage any duplicates you may have found it necessary to create, or that were created by accident. Uploading this file does not delete it from your unit. gc.com recalls the last time you uploaded notes, and attempts to avoid acceptance of logs that have already been uploaded. So while you may be sending the entire geocache_visits.txt file, only those entries that post-date the date shown on the gc.com field notes page will actually be accepted (unless you change that date for some reason). So while it may appear to purge that file after each uploading session, it does NOT. This file will just continue getting larger and larger with each geocaching expedition, one log line being appended to it for every cache you log on the face of your unit. The only way to prevent this file from growing endlessly is to hook it up to your PC, navigate to the Garmin directory, and delete it.

 

Managing found/not-found states and gpx files:

 

The only way to remove caches from your unit (either found or unfound) is to send a new gpx file to the unit. The idea that BaseCamp can delete individual caches is VERY misleading. A text editor could do the same job. In both cases, it's the fact that the gpx file on the unit has been modified directly by an application or a new file has been loaded in place of the old file (could be read from the unit, modified and sent back to the unit, or could be a new file entirely) that causes the unit to re-read and parse all gpx file info in the GPX directory and rebuild its internal (#2) table. BaseCamp does NOT and CANNOT modify the internal (#2) table of the GPS. It can only modify and move gpx files to/from the unit.

 

Even changing the time stamp on a gpx file (#1) causes the unit to reevaluate the gpx files for changes and reload the internal table (#2) for those caches found in modified gpx file(s). Therefore, the way to 'remove' found caches from the unit is to supply it with a gpx file that does not any longer contain those found caches. During the reevaluation, the unit will 'forget' anything it already knew about caches, and no longer seeing your found cache in a gpx, doesn't even know that they exist.

[+toil&trouble]

Okay, I appreciate the response. As I said in my first post, I understand that I cannot delete files directly from the Oregon. I remember that on a PC I was able to remove "found" caches from the PC, maybe I am mis-remembering and I just used to run more PQs. When I was using a PC, I ran a PQ for "home" twice a week. Now we are retired and live full time in a motor home. So we generally stay in one place about a week or three, I was trying to avoid running a new PQ each time we got back from a day of caching, but it would seem that is what I'll have to do.

[+ecanderson]

Okay, I appreciate the response. As I said in my first post, I understand that I cannot delete files directly from the Oregon.

Understood. The reply was more 'generic', and included that case since it comes up a lot, especially with previous eTrex users who were accustomed to that.

 

, I was trying to avoid running a new PQ each time we got back from a day of caching, but it would seem that is what I'll have to do.

I'm not clear as to why you would need/want to delete your found caches right away. I'd just wait until it was time to load up your next PQ and let the deletion of the 'found' list in the internal table be updated then.

 

Also, I noticed that when I move GPX files to the trash, it doesn't clear up any storage room on the device.

Sigh. I wish I could tell you why, but the Apple folks thought it would be a BRILLIANT idea for USB storage devices to have a LOCAL trash can rather than one on the primary drive, using up (often) the device's own limited space to store the trash. This includes thumb drives, things like your Oregon, etc. It's a feature that can be defeated with a bit of work, but if you know what's happening, you can manage it yourself. You will have to empty the trash there in order to free up the space. Mac users blast Windoze all the time, but this was one area where the folks in Redmond got it right. Trash always goes to the larger primary storage area (hard drive).

[+mpilchfamily]

If you really want to delete the found caches from the PQ you will need a Mac equivalent program like GSAK or EasyGPS that can open the PQ, allow you to edit it then save it before moving it back to your unit. I know EasyGPS is PC only don't know if there is a Mac version of GSAK or not. But i'm sure there are some good programs for Macs that can handle this for you.

[+ecanderson]

If you really want to delete the found caches from the PQ you will need a Mac equivalent program like GSAK or EasyGPS that can open the PQ, allow you to edit it then save it before moving it back to your unit. I know EasyGPS is PC only don't know if there is a Mac version of GSAK or not. But i'm sure there are some good programs for Macs that can handle this for you.

That isn't going to work, mpilch. Unless he deletes every cache he found from his existing *.gpx file (could be pretty tedious), all that will do is cause his 'found' caches to show up as 'unfound' again! I don't think that's what he wants! I'm still unclear as to why folks are so insistent on removing the 'found' caches. The don't show up when you look for new unfound caches. Edited August 31, 2011 by ecanderson

[+toil&trouble]

Thanks for responses, the reason I'd like to get rid of my "found" on the Oregon, is say I cache in the same town two days in a row, the second day, it would be nice to know how many caches I've found without seeing yesterday's caches. Some times theres just a little thing, that you want a certain way, and you let it bug you, you know?

[+t4e]

Thanks for responses, the reason I'd like to get rid of my "found" on the Oregon, is say I cache in the same town two days in a row, the second day, it would be nice to know how many caches I've found without seeing yesterday's caches. Some times theres just a little thing, that you want a certain way, and you let it bug you, you know?

 

that is what the geocache visits text file will tell you

[+ecanderson]

Thanks for responses, the reason I'd like to get rid of my "found" on the Oregon, is say I cache in the same town two days in a row, the second day, it would be nice to know how many caches I've found without seeing yesterday's caches. Some times theres just a little thing, that you want a certain way, and you let it bug you, you know?

 

that is what the geocache visits text file will tell you

When he gets it home to look at it on his computer, yes, he could count them that way. My guess is that we're dealing with more of an 'instant gratification' issue here. Without a way to read them off the unit so as to count them on the way home, well...

Who says it's not about the numbers?

[+ecanderson]

Yes, I know. Read the found count at the beginning of the cache run. Read it again at the end and subtract. Now why didn't I think of that?

[+ecanderson]

On the geocaching dashboard.

[+ecanderson]

Yes, the number can be pre-loaded. Under Setup>Geocaches.

Edited September 1, 2011 by ecanderson

[+ecanderson]

Over here (again) => http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/Geocaching

[gitarmac]

I just ordered an oregon from rei!!!!

 

So I'm very exited and trying to learn how it's differant from my vista and I am very confused by what I read. I don't know why someone would make it so you can't delete something you have put there?!?

 

Is this only for PQ's? If I put the caches on there one by one from the web or GSAK can I delete them then?

 

I mostly use my GPSr's for uses other than geocaching. I'm not sure I want to hog all the resources loading a bunch of caches, although with the paperless thing I will probably gecocache more. Right now I am picky about what I look for, I think I will still be picky.

[+toil&trouble]

Yes I can subtract, but yes I was just looking for a way to just show todays finds. No, it's not "all about the numbers" but it is still fun to keep track of how many you've done in a day. Thanks for reminding me of the dashboard, if forgot all about that. Don't usually use it while geocaching, but since I also use my Oregon as a bike computer, I use the dashboard a lot in the "fitness" profile. I can just reset the numbers and take a quick look at the dashboard if I want a count. I really do appreciate the info provided by everyone.

[+ecanderson]

Thanks for reminding me of the dashboard, if forgot all about that. Don't usually use it while geocaching, but since I also use my Oregon as a bike computer, I use the dashboard a lot in the "fitness" profile. I can just reset the numbers and take a quick look at the dashboard if I want a count.

I don't use the geocaching dashboard, either. I can't recall all of the reasons why now, but really do prefer the compass page to have the 4 small boxes with my preferred selection of stuff. This shot is off my Dakota - the Oregon has a little more space for text. What you're seeing in "Destination" (thanks to GSAK's ability to tweak the name) is the GC code, cache size (micro) and difficulty (1.5). I do more and different things with the Oregon now so I get terrain info to fit in there, too.

 

 

 

Everybody sets these things up to suit, but I've always found that those 4 items are the ones I tend to use most when I'm out caching. Interesting that you're using your Oregon as a bike computer. For some reason, I hadn't given much thought to that, but I bet it's a good bit more accurate than my really old Cat unit with it's limited features.

[gitarmac]

I don't get what happens to the interal log that grows that you cannot delete or edit. I gather that this thing creates a permanant file of logs of every cache you've loaded into your gps? What happens when it gets too big? Will it tell you? Is there a limit?

 

 

Also, Lets say I do a PQ for my area. I having fun, out hunting caches . . .

 

Then I decide to redo the PQ so I can get more recent notes and stuff. If this overides and removes caches, how does one prevent the ones you have found that you want to keep track of from being removed?

Edited September 1, 2011 by gitarmac

[+ecanderson]

I don't get what happens to the interal log that grows that you cannot delete or edit. I gather that this thing creates a permanant file of logs of every cache you've loaded into your gps? What happens when it gets too big? Will it tell you? Is there a limit?

Re-read the explanation in an adjacent thread here => http://forums.Ground...howtopic=281259

 

When a new PQ is loaded, all memory of specific found caches is deleted. ONLY a total found count remains, and continues to be incremented as you find new caches.

 

Then I decide to redo the PQ so I can get more recent notes and stuff. If this overides and removes caches, how does one prevent the ones you have found that you want to keep track of from being removed?

You can't do that - no way to have it both ways. Again, the explanation in that thread above will explain this in gory detail so that there's no mistaking what is happening.

The geocache_visits.txt file will retain a history of all of your finds until you delete that file. It is the file that is used to upload cache notes to gc.com, and can be viewed with a text editor from your PC.

 

If you want to keep ALL of your found caches on your unit, that can be accomplished by loading your MyFinds PQ and loading those to your Oregon as a POI file. Garmin's POILoader (free) application is often used for this purpose. This allows you to see them on your map, search for them, but takes up zero of the 5000 slots available for geocaches on your unit.

Edited September 1, 2011 by ecanderson

[+dfx]

When a new PQ is loaded, all memory of specific found caches is deleted. ONLY a total found count remains, and continues to be incremented as you find new caches.

 

That's not entirely true. I've found that when loading a new PQ, the Oregon does take the currently existing geocache_visits.txt file into account and will load caches as "found" if they have a "found it" field not in the txt file, even if the PQ contains them in "unfound" state. Just to add to the confusion.

[+ecanderson]

When a new PQ is loaded, all memory of specific found caches is deleted. ONLY a total found count remains, and continues to be incremented as you find new caches.

 

That's not entirely true. I've found that when loading a new PQ, the Oregon does take the currently existing geocache_visits.txt file into account and will load caches as "found" if they have a "found it" field not in the txt file, even if the PQ contains them in "unfound" state. Just to add to the confusion.

It's true that if caches are marked as "found" in the unit, and another PQ (or *.gpx from whatever source) is loaded that contains those same 'found' caches again (normally that would never be the case for a PQ), that the old 'finds' are NOT forgotten and will appear under "Geocaches / Show Found". That's a bug/feature that's been in there since the beginning with the Colorado. As long as there's an existing entry in internal memory for a particular cache, when the *.gpx files are re-evaluated due to any change in the *.gpx files found during power up, the found/not-found status of any cache that is again found in one or more *.gpx files remains the same as it was before. I'm guessing it has something to do with how Garmin is trying to manage multiple *.gpx files, especially with potential overlap (entries duplicated between *.gpx files). In truth, it's probably a feature - think about what happens when there are multiple *.gpx files in residence (like for the folks that don't PQ and have one *.gpx for each cache). Adding or deleting a couple of files won't impact the status of the others in internal memory.

 

So I suppose what I should say to make this correct would be as follows:

 

When the unit powers up and finds modifications have been made to one or more *.gpx files, the *.gpx files are re-evaluated, and the unit forgets (in it's internal memory table) all it knew (including found/unfound status) of any caches that it does not find in the current array of *.gpx files.

 

In normal practice, a fresh PQ does NOT contain any information about found caches, and that causes all found caches to be removed from the internal table, and no longer show up in the "Geocaches / Show Found" list. 99.9% of the time, a PQ that will be loaded as a *.gpx (other than a "My Finds" PQ, another story) has "I haven't found" selected. A "My Finds" query, if loaded to a GPS, is usually relegated to a POI category so as not to use up all of the available geocache slots (500, 2000, 5000, whatever number) on the unit. When loaded as a POI, it has no impact on the found/not-found status at all.

Edited September 2, 2011 by ecanderson

[+HHL]

[…]

The geocache_visits.txt file will retain a history of all of your finds until you delete that file. It is the file that is used to upload cache notes to gc.com, and can be viewed with a text editor from your PC.

[…]

 

Following on. The geocache_visits.txt is also used by Montana’s FW to populate the unit’s calendar with found caches.

 

Frohes jagen

Hans

[+mamoreb]

If you log as found by accident, using "Show Found", reselect the cache. "Log Attempt" again, but this time, log it as "Did Not Find". This will do two things. First, it will place it BACK into the list of unfound caches again such that you will see it when looking at the list of unfound caches. It will also cause the map icon to revert to the 'unfound' icon. There is a 3rd effect that you'll have to remember -- the geocache_visits.txt file will now contain TWO logs for this cache. The first will be a "found" log, and the second the "didn't find" log. You will need to manage this manually by deleting the unnecessary log if you upload your field notes to gc.com.

 

Thanks for the brilliant set of information! I learnt several new things.

 

The above text solved one of my problems. I had clicked "found" on a cache that I hadn't really found, when I tried learning how to use the GPS.

 

What I don't really get is why that cache's status in table #2 wasn't reverted to unfound when I uploaded a new GPX file. The GPX file was generated by GSAK, and the cache in question was neither logged on geocaching.com nor marked as found in GSAK. Could it be that Montana (which I have got) does this slightly different from Oregon?

 

(Edit because I hadn't read post #24 when I posted... But I still don't understand completely.)

Edited September 2, 2011 by mamoreb

[+ecanderson]

(Edit because I hadn't read post #24 when I posted... But I still don't understand completely.)

When the unit is powered on and sees a new *.gpx, it

 

a. and clears all slots it had before for anything it doesn't find,

b. retains slots that it already had for anything it finds that it already knew about, and

c. creates new internal slots for everything it finds that it hasn't seen before.

 

The case that was brought up above, and that you may be addressing, is "b" -- but where for some reason (not normally the case when running full PQs), a cache you've already found shows up in a *.gpx again. In that case, the slot is retained, AND the status remains 'found' in the table.

 

(One of these days, I'm going to remember that a "b" followed by a ")" causes a and remember not to use that!)

Edited September 2, 2011 by ecanderson

[+EdrickV]

If I'm understanding these explanations correctly, the way to unset the found status of that one cache would be to replace the existing .gpx file(s) with one that does not include that cache. (Say a single file .gpx file) Let it load up that one cache. Then you go and reload a current PQ, and hopefully the found/not found status will be cleared. (This all seems rather unnecessarily complicated to me, but then I don't work for Garmin.)