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Is it normal for the FTF to take 70% of the SWAG?


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Kinda upset here...

 

So, a few weeks back I posted up my Ammo Can on the forum to see if everyone felt the swag was of decent quality. I took everyone's feedback and improved it more.

 

When I first posted it on the forum, it had $15 worth of BRAND NEW merchandise in it... nearly 20 items

 

So after i got everyone's feedback, I added another $15 to it, and a nice, brand new pair of binoculars as an FTF prize.

 

Well, today was the first day it was published on the site, and I drove around to check on everything... I checked every stage to make sure everything was in order

 

I get to the final and noticed the box was about half the weight that it was when i put it there 2 days before!!!!!

 

I opened it up and to my complete disgust, the FTF took almost everything out!

 

They seriously took at least half of the swag inside, including their sweet prize... and left 2 packs of post-it notes and some sample shampoo/conditioner packets?!?!

 

WTF? SERIOUSLY?

 

And this wasn't a n00b FTF it was sumone with NEARLY 1,500 finds...

 

all i can say is... WOW! So much for trading up / trading even...

 

I seriously may never place another quality cache like this ever again...

 

Is this a normal practice?

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That is so rude. I don't know what I'd do about it but that is RUDE!! There was a person around my area that STARTED a cache with total junk. I thought it was crazy... a parking stub, Border's rewards card (useless), and that kind of thing. Now I'm thinking that person had the right idea... only UP trades from junk. I'm sorry that happened to you :(

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NO! That's not right.

 

I would, however, recheck your assumptions.

Are you sure the FTF person was the one who took all that SWAG?

 

I hate to say it, but large caches are the ones most easy to find, and

are often "muggled" - - broken into by non-geocaching people, and it's quite

possible some other folks took the loot.

 

:unsure:

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I would, however, recheck your assumptions.

Are you sure the FTF person was the one who took all that SWAG?

 

I hate to say it, but large caches are the ones most easy to find, and

are often "muggled" - - broken into by non-geocaching people, and it's quite

possible some other folks took the loot.

 

Almost Positive it was... here's how I know:

 

First clue: on step two of the multi cache, you must find a box containing a booklet with clues to get to the final. In this box were 10 booklets originally, only one was missing!

Second clue: the final has a combination lock on it, the combination is ALSO hidden in the booklet from step 2, so no muggles would be able to open this box... and there is only one signature on the log

 

Third Clue: The box is still chained to the tree, where I put it. The box was also put back exactly the way i placed it, and is still chained to the tree... a muggle would have at least yanked on or tried to break the box free

 

I'm pretty sure that points to exactly who did it... right?

Edited by z0mbieCache
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z0mbieCache, that simply terrible. We are able to relate to your situation, as we had our first hide this summer. We went to some effort to produce a good hide, ammo can cache, that was stocked well with swag. We would simply be crushed to find out that a FTF would clear it out that like. We know that a cache like the one you created takes a lot of work to put together. The money it took to stock it that well was little in comparison to the work you put into the hide. You took the extra effort to really put something out there that people would enjoy. In return for your effort, you got the short end of the stick. Boo!

 

We'll just try to help take a step back from that. NO, that's clearly not the norm. You more than have a right to be upset about it. We all know when we place a hide, that it's somewhat outside of our hands after that. We know it's possible for the first person to find it to simply clear it out completely. I suppose that sometimes, we should be happy that there's ANYTHING left. (/sarcasm)

 

However, just to try and lift your spirits, we've seen the other end of that. Our cache has only been found a few times, and nothing but a geocoin has been taken. Only new items left. I'm sorry you have to be on the short end of the stick this time, and hope it doesn't discourage you from future hides. It's certainly not the norm, and that the person that cleared it out should be ashamed of themselves.

 

Try to keep some faith. One bad apple doesn't make us all bad.

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That really stinks, but I guess it's just like with trackables: once you put them in a cache don't grow too attached to them.

 

That being said, console yourself with the fact that your cache sounds fantastic and is, in itself, the real "prize" for future cachers that find it. I wish I lived closer, it would even be worth a day-trip for me to go find yours. Keep up the good work!

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I would send the FTF an email asking if he/she got the special FTF prize as it seems that someone muggled most of the good stuff from the cache and you were concerned.

 

In any case I remember your original post before you placed the cache and it sounds like a great cache, so don't let one jerk ruin things for you. :D

Edited by captnemo
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Every once in a while you're going to run into someone like that. I know everybody who visits these forums trades evenly or up, but SOMEONE is causing cache contents to degrade.

 

I always thought that was you doing that. Not? :huh:

 

To the OP... have you considered (once you have relaxed) emailing the FTF and simply, and without accusation, asking what, if anything, they traded?

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From the FTF log:

 

Loved all the goodies inside the ammo can - that was a very nice touch. It is also the best FTF prize I have ever received and will use them while hiking. My children dropped and broke my last pair, so I've been without a pair for a decade now. There are still many, many nice things in the cache, but other cachers beware the zombie which guards the cache site!

 

I guess there are various ways to interpret that, but on the surface, it sounds to me as though he took the binoculars, thinking that they were an "FTF prize", and simply appreciated all the other stuff you left in the cache. He sounds very grateful, too.

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i don't know what to say

even though you may think the cache is "unbreakable" by a muggle don't forget that where's a will there is a way

on the other hand if a muggle did it why wouldn't they take all the contents?

i still want to believe that the FTF did not take most of it

 

we placed an 11 stage multi and had swag at around $100 total in the final, and we had nothing like that happen...mind you i would have been pretty upset if it got emptied out by the FTF

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Well, that really sucks. Especially after all the work you put into this cache.

Odd story though. I'm guessing it was NOT the FTF who took all the stuff. I don't know what happened, but it sounds like there might be some weirdo lurking around who figured out how to get into it.

Maybe he stumbled onto the first stage and figured it out from there. Don't jump the gun! It would be embarrassing if you insinuated that the FTF took all the stuff and it turns out to be someone else.

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The bionoculars were in a bag by themselves and were labeled "FTF Prize", so I was expecting to see those gone along with maybe a couple of the items

 

I think i'll just count my losses and hit the dollar store and grab a couple more pieces and throw em in the box, maybe the next finder wont be a SWAG-HOG?

 

Funny thing is.. one of the last caches I found was one of my FTF's hides and I took only a fake $1 million bill and left about 5-6 nice new toys inside :(

 

Thanks everyone

 

FOR THE RECORD: Yes, it could very well have been another anonymous cacher who took the stuff, if i am wrong, i will admit it, but as i stated, you would need the "clue book" from stage 2 to even get into the box, and only one was missing... so take it for what it's worth

 

also, this box is locked by a good combination lock and also chained to a tree with a heavy chain...

Edited by z0mbieCache
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From the FTF log:

 

Loved all the goodies inside the ammo can - that was a very nice touch. It is also the best FTF prize I have ever received and will use them while hiking. My children dropped and broke my last pair, so I've been without a pair for a decade now. There are still many, many nice things in the cache, but other cachers beware the zombie which guards the cache site!

 

I guess there are various ways to interpret that, but on the surface, it sounds to me as though he took the binoculars, thinking that they were an "FTF prize", and simply appreciated all the other stuff you left in the cache. He sounds very grateful, too.

 

That's what I was thinking. You don't get the sense from the log that he took a lot of stuff. But if he did, the silver lining was that he left a really complimentary log, which can be a big part of the reward of cache ownership. I totally understand how it can bug you though. I hope you keep up the good work zOmbiecache.

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They seriously took at least half of the swag inside, including their sweet prize... and left 2 packs of post-it notes and some sample shampoo/conditioner packets

There's a problem if a family with a few kids arrive, and everyone wants to "trade something", and the parents aren't prepared for a number of trades. It's great when you decide to "pay it forward", and place nice things in the container, but you'll never get the value back in trades. I've pretty much decided a bunch of little items is better than a few expensive ones, since kids don't have any real sense of item values. After a while, a clean container and a dry logbook is all anyone could ask.

 

But don't be discouraged. Sometimes if I find a real cool cache, but it looks a little sad with just a shampoo packet or something, I'll fill it up with (inexpensive) goodies and not mention it. I'd bet others add some stuff along the way, as well.

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After reading their post I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to do that one for the experience. I work with a guy that can open any combo lock in under 5 minutes. It is possible this happened.

 

I suppose it could have happened.

 

But does your buddy at work make the extra effort to put everything back into place when he's done too? Just sayin'

 

oh well, i'm over it now... i'm just gonna go fill it up again and continue on with my hobby

 

thanks for reading everyone!

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They seriously took at least half of the swag inside, including their sweet prize... and left 2 packs of post-it notes and some sample shampoo/conditioner packets

There's a problem if a family with a few kids arrive, and everyone wants to "trade something", and the parents aren't prepared for a number of trades. It's great when you decide to "pay it forward", and place nice things in the container, but you'll never get the value back in trades. I've pretty much decided a bunch of little items is better than a few expensive ones, since kids don't have any real sense of item values. After a while, a clean container and a dry logbook is all anyone could ask.

 

But don't be discouraged. Sometimes if I find a real cool cache, but it looks a little sad with just a shampoo packet or something, I'll fill it up with (inexpensive) goodies and not mention it. I'd bet others add some stuff along the way, as well.

 

That may very well be the case... I've looked thru this user's photos and stuff, they have like 4-5 kids

 

It wasn't really the cost i was concerned about, it was just some dollar store items really... it was more the volume of missing items that shocked me

 

I feel you may be right on tho about the "big family" guess here

 

Oh well...

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After reading their post I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to do that one for the experience. I work with a guy that can open any combo lock in under 5 minutes. It is possible this happened.

 

I suppose it could have happened.

 

But does your buddy at work make the extra effort to put everything back into place when he's done too? Just sayin'

 

oh well, i'm over it now... i'm just gonna go fill it up again and continue on with my hobby

 

thanks for reading everyone!

 

I understand your frustration. We just filled our first cache with a lot of swag and hope it doesn't pillaged too.

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There's a problem if a family with a few kids arrive, and everyone wants to "trade something", and the parents aren't prepared for a number of trades. It's great when you decide to "pay it forward", and place nice things in the container, but you'll never get the value back in trades. I've pretty much decided a bunch of little items is better than a few expensive ones, since kids don't have any real sense of item values. After a while, a clean container and a dry logbook is all anyone could ask.

 

But don't be discouraged. Sometimes if I find a real cool cache, but it looks a little sad with just a shampoo packet or something, I'll fill it up with (inexpensive) goodies and not mention it. I'd bet others add some stuff along the way, as well.

 

Shame. We go caching as a family of 5 and never take more than 1 item as a family.

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After reading their post I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to do that one for the experience. I work with a guy that can open any combo lock in under 5 minutes. It is possible this happened.

 

I suppose it could have happened.

 

But does your buddy at work make the extra effort to put everything back into place when he's done too? Just sayin'

 

oh well, i'm over it now... i'm just gonna go fill it up again and continue on with my hobby

 

thanks for reading everyone!

 

Seriously... I think you should ask the guy that had the FTF. If he did take all that stuff, he needs to be called on it, and if he didn't, he needs to clear his name, since most of us reading this thread knows now who you are referring to. Ask, but be careful how you ask.

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Sometimes I'll leave an unactivated coin in a cache as swag for cachers. I typically add a little note, reminding the person to trade up or trade even and mention that if they aren't prepared to do that at this cache at this time, that they should plan to do so on a future day of caching. Not everyone is prepared with a $5 or $10 item to trade. I have to rely on the honor system that they will do the ethical thing. But I wouldn't judge them for not doing it right then and there.

 

Sometimes paying things forward can take a little time and patience. That doesn't mean it isn't happening at all. :)

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After reading their post I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to do that one for the experience. I work with a guy that can open any combo lock in under 5 minutes. It is possible this happened.

 

I suppose it could have happened.

 

But does your buddy at work make the extra effort to put everything back into place when he's done too? Just sayin'

 

oh well, i'm over it now... i'm just gonna go fill it up again and continue on with my hobby

 

thanks for reading everyone!

 

Seriously... I think you should ask the guy that had the FTF. If he did take all that stuff, he needs to be called on it, and if he didn't, he needs to clear his name, since most of us reading this thread knows now who you are referring to. Ask, but be careful how you ask.

 

On the other hand, little good will come of a confrontation, however carefully delivered. Take it as a point of karma and let it go. If he had his family with him and they each took something, it wouldn't take long to empty a cache. He did genuinely seem to enjoy your cache (as well as the swag)and gave you a glowing log. Maybe you can find your enjoyment from that.

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I seriously may never place another quality cache like this ever again...

 

 

Well, honestly I don't leave FTF swag. Not that I think it's wrong but I don't feel bad since I gave them a cache to find and they did get to claim their FTF. I stock a cache pretty well, and I'll even restock other people's caches. I guess if someone depleted my cache I would think bad thoughts about them (assuming I was right) and watch to see what happens to the other caches they find. Build a history. The biggest comfort is that they are not likely to return to find my cache again. If they did and cleared it out, I guess I'd know there's a bad egg in the community and everyone else is simply going to find a nice sized ammocan with just a logbook.

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It's a treasure hunt, not a trade show. I was a bit disappointed at the general practice of downtrading when I first started hiding caches, but that's the way it is in general. At one early cache I had someone complain about mud nearby,(which was completely avoidable) and I got disgusted when they took a new item and left nothing, as well as leaving the packaging for it on the trail. :mad: They weren't ftf either. However I still hid plenty of caches anyway because it was fun, even though I really don't like playing Santa Claus. :D I've probably have spent $2000 or so over the years, but several caches have nice logs. Some are from cachers who really enjoyed the hunt, and some are from cachers who took plenty and felt guilty I suppose.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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After reading their post I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to do that one for the experience. I work with a guy that can open any combo lock in under 5 minutes. It is possible this happened.

 

I suppose it could have happened.

 

But does your buddy at work make the extra effort to put everything back into place when he's done too? Just sayin'

 

oh well, i'm over it now... i'm just gonna go fill it up again and continue on with my hobby

 

thanks for reading everyone!

 

Seriously... I think you should ask the guy that had the FTF. If he did take all that stuff, he needs to be called on it, and if he didn't, he needs to clear his name, since most of us reading this thread knows now who you are referring to. Ask, but be careful how you ask.

 

On the other hand, little good will come of a confrontation, however carefully delivered. Take it as a point of karma and let it go. If he had his family with him and they each took something, it wouldn't take long to empty a cache. He did genuinely seem to enjoy your cache (as well as the swag)and gave you a glowing log. Maybe you can find your enjoyment from that.

 

OMG yes!!! Avoid confrontation for sure! If nothing else, you can be assured that you will not get an honest answer. It can be carefully delivered as long as the OP honestly believes that they may not have all the facts.

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It sucks that happened but don't let it discourage you as I'm sure that is not the norm. I'm big on trading up when possible and would never take more then one item if I didn't have a bunch of good stuff to make up for whatever I took. I teach my daughter to do the same and believe me she does in almost all cases add way more then we take. Most times she says this cache is lacking swagg we need to fill it up for the next to find. She is now 13 and has collected all her kid toys to give out so there is no lack of swagg on our part to share.

However on our first FTF we got out there and then some muggles started to question us who worked at the church. We had a big cache container in our hand. The owner of the cache came up and explained what we were doing. He pointed out he had left us a little LED flashlight and a steak (rubber) for the FTF prize. He was wanting to change out his log book so I was helping to figure out how to sign the new one as my daughter was going threw the cache items and trading. It was kind of weird because we were out in the open with the cache owner going threw stuff with muggles about. We left a trackable coin and our signature button and I think some other stuff I was busy with the Cache owner. When we got home we had 2 flashlights from it. I felt really bad and contacted the owner who said it was fine and that seeing me caching with my daughter inspired him to have a kid to take caching. :laughing:B) When I get into that area again I plan on putting back a flashlight and some other stuff. If it was closer I would have went back that night.

All in all I'm sure there was just some mistake that happened whether it was the FTF who somehow took it or it got muggled. I wouldn't expect it to happen to all new caches you put out. I would try to just move on from it and if you place another cache out and that same finder finds it I would go check it after and see if the same thing happens. Then question them on it.

-WarNinjas

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That`s garbage. Can I ask if it was a Premium Cache? I`m doing my cache as a premium to hopefully avoid the

cheapskates in my area. I have a kick-butt container, a very rare FTF geocoin from the other side of the

planet, and a bunch of collector pins also from a long ways away. It will be an awesome cache and I don`t

mind putting out the expense but it would really PMO if it got raided by the McToy crowd the first day.

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While no one here wants to think that an experienced cacher would do something like that, your evidence sure seems to suggest that he is the most likely suspect. Remember folks, just because someone has been in the game for several years and has a 1400 finds doesn't necessarily mean that they have good geo ethics, even if they do leave a good log.

 

I'd be willing to bet that this sort of thing happens more often than people realize. Afterall, the next finder has no idea what or how much swag was in there before them and most CO's probably don't check their cache after every find. Most anyone who has a swag cache that's been out for any decent length of time knows that the Trade even or trade up philosophy doesn't hold true most of the time. Unfortunately, unless someone physically monitors their cache after each and every find, no one has any way to know who took something but didn't leave anything, who traded but not evenly or up, who took more than their share and who didn't trade at all.

 

Perhaps your FTF was so used to finding nothing but junk in caches that he got caught up in the excitement of finding decent swag and got carried away. Maybe he had a bunch of kids with him and it was easier to let them all grab something rather than listen to them whine over not getting a prize, or deal with them fighting over one item all the way home. Maybe he wasn't prepared to trade for good stuff (maybe post-it notes is a trade up from what he's used to finding) so he left what he had and is planning to return with equal trades. Recently there was a log on a cache in my area where a finder admitted that he got greedy and took more items than he could trade for but promised to drop off replacement items the next time he is in town.

 

None of these reasons are meant to justify someone cleaning you out, but it might give you some ideas as to why someone did it. I think if it were me, I'd just let it go and move on. It stinks that it happened but it is what it is. Don't let it discourage you, continue to seek quality and show pride in your own hides. I am a firm believer that if you continue to set an example in quality caches, someone will eventually follow that example and someone will eventually follow their example, and so on.

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FOR THE RECORD: Yes, it could very well have been another anonymous cacher who took the stuff, if i am wrong, i will admit it, but as i stated, you would need the "clue book" from stage 2 to even get into the box, and only one was missing... so take it for what it's worth

 

Is it possible to just copy all the info from the clue books at stage 2, put the clue book back and then hit the final? Or perhaps to take a book, find the final and then return the book?

 

There might be only one sig in the logbook, but there are ghost cachers out there who don't sign or log anything. I'm not defending the FTF. Alot of evidence points towards him but there are other possibilities.

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also, this box is locked by a good combination lock and also chained to a tree with a heavy chain...

That by itself does not mean that it's really all that secure. I've had ammo cans that were cabled to the tree, stolen. Somehow, they took the can and left the cable still locked to the tree, perfectly intact. <_<:mad:

Edited by Dgwphotos
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Reading that good FTF log, I'm wondering whether they were actually spotted by a muggle. Their story of seeing a "REAL zombie" at the scene may be based on the fact that someone saw them and came over to check the location. Maybe they thought they got away with it by hiding but that person came back later to look around the area again and maybe found the cache. Is that a possible scenario?

 

Whatever happened, it reads like an excellent cache.

 

MrsB :)

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After reading their post I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to do that one for the experience. I work with a guy that can open any combo lock in under 5 minutes. It is possible this happened.

 

I suppose it could have happened.

 

But does your buddy at work make the extra effort to put everything back into place when he's done too? Just sayin'

 

oh well, i'm over it now... i'm just gonna go fill it up again and continue on with my hobby

 

thanks for reading everyone!

 

I don't know if you listed the swag contents in the cache description (many people do that), but when you revisit the cache and replace the swag I'd consider that a maintenance visit and would post a Owner Maintenance log which just said something like..."Most of the original swag was already gone so I've refilled the container with new items...happy geocaching". You wouldn't be accusing the FTF of taking most of the swag but just updating the community of the state of the cache. If the FTF still has the only found it log they and others in the community ought to figure out the implication and might say something about it.

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That`s garbage. Can I ask if it was a Premium Cache? I`m doing my cache as a premium to hopefully avoid the

cheapskates in my area. I have a kick-butt container, a very rare FTF geocoin from the other side of the

planet, and a bunch of collector pins also from a long ways away. It will be an awesome cache and I don`t

mind putting out the expense but it would really PMO if it got raided by the McToy crowd the first day.

 

nope, it was a regular cache and a premium member with nearly 1,500 finds

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That by itself does not mean that it's really all that secure. I've had ammo cans that were cabled to the tree, stolen. Somehow, they took the can and left the cable still locked to the tree, perfectly intact. <_<:mad:

Reading that good FTF log, I'm wondering whether they were actually spotted by a muggle. Their story of seeing a "REAL zombie" at the scene may be based on the fact that someone saw them and came over to check the location. Maybe they thought they got away with it by hiding but that person came back later to look around the area again and maybe found the cache. Is that a possible scenario?

 

The muggle wouldn't have the combination and odds are wouldn't put the box back exactly like it was...

Edited by z0mbieCache
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I don't know if you listed the swag contents in the cache description (many people do that), but when you revisit the cache and replace the swag I'd consider that a maintenance visit and would post a Owner Maintenance log which just said something like..."Most of the original swag was already gone so I've refilled the container with new items...happy geocaching". You wouldn't be accusing the FTF of taking most of the swag but just updating the community of the state of the cache. If the FTF still has the only found it log they and others in the community ought to figure out the implication and might say something about it.

 

No, i didn't list the contents

 

However, i think this is EXACTLY what i'll do

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So sorry this has happened to your cache! It does look like a great set up. You must have put a lot of planning into it, and I love the way you presented it on the cache page. If the FTF did take a lot of the nice swag in there, there's a good chance he & his kids might put it in other caches as least. (A Robin Hood cacher!) Or as has been said, it could have been a mystery cacher who is just plain greedy (Who can't manage to take swag for swaps, but has a big enough bag to take things out.) The thing that's most annoying about it is the shampoo sachets, as I bet you took them out before they made a mess of the rest of the contents, so they weren't really trades either. :( It would be a shame if there were muggles around and someone else did take things. I'd want to know it it was the FTF in case there's a danger the cache is too exposed and you wouldn't want to put people's trackables at risk, so that's how I'd word it to the FTFer.

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Sometimes I'll leave an unactivated coin in a cache as swag for cachers. I typically add a little note, reminding the person to trade up or trade even and mention that if they aren't prepared to do that at this cache at this time, that they should plan to do so on a future day of caching. Not everyone is prepared with a $5 or $10 item to trade. I have to rely on the honor system that they will do the ethical thing. But I wouldn't judge them for not doing it right then and there.

 

Sometimes paying things forward can take a little time and patience. That doesn't mean it isn't happening at all. :)

 

As a new geocacher, I am trying not to get in the habit of taking without putting back in. If I dont have anything to trade, I dont take anything out. I have taken my kids with me on a few caches and have explained to them that if we dont have anything to put in, we dont take out. They have been good about it and the one that they found that had some small swag in it we of course were not prepared for as we were looking for a nano. So I had to be creative since they wanted to take one item out. It worked out in the end, but as I am preparing to hide my first cache, I will have to keep this all in mind. I know that it is an honor system and there is always that risk taken, but for the fun of the game, it is one that must be taken.

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That`s garbage. Can I ask if it was a Premium Cache? I`m doing my cache as a premium to hopefully avoid the

cheapskates in my area. I have a kick-butt container, a very rare FTF geocoin from the other side of the

planet, and a bunch of collector pins also from a long ways away. It will be an awesome cache and I don`t

mind putting out the expense but it would really PMO if it got raided by the McToy crowd the first day.

 

nope, it was a regular cache and a premium member with nearly 1,500 finds

 

I realize your frustration, but you really can't prove this. Degraded swag is a fact of life. Believe me, it ticks me off too. That's the bad thing here, anyone who looks can figure out who this is with a couple of mouse clicks. Do not know them, but found a couple of their caches. Not that that means anything.

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That`s garbage. Can I ask if it was a Premium Cache? I`m doing my cache as a premium to hopefully avoid the

cheapskates in my area.

 

The guy that had FTF IS a Premium member, he has been caching since 2005, and has almost 1500 finds, including 14 events, three of which are Mega-Events. After looking at some of his logs and stuff, I am having serious doubts that the guy took all that swag. I don't know what happened to it, but this guy would have been called out much sooner in his caching career than this, had this been his usual M.O.

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This is sad to hear, but like others I'd give the FTF the benefit of the doubt. When I place a regular sized cache, I like to stock it with good trade items. I do know that the contents will degrade over time, but you kind of hope that's not just after one visit. I don't usually bother to restock them though other than adding an item or two if there really is nothing but junk left in them.

 

We placed a large cache a couple yaars ago. I had a tote bin full of old teddy bears and stuffed animals that I wanted to get rid of. What better way than to hide a "Teddy Bears Picnic" cache. My partner hid the cache. A couple weeks later, I went there with my mom and my aunt to find the cache. There was maybe half the number of stuffed animals in there, and only a couple of small new items that weren't worth much. I had wanted to get rid of them, so it wasn't so bad, but it did prove that most who visited did not trade fairly, and it seems many did not even trade at all.

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