Montana SW Version 3.20

[+Catch]

Changes made from version 3.10 to 3.20:

Fixed display issues during spell searches

Fixed ability to enable mapsets using shortcuts

Fixed ability to mute or unmute volume using shortcuts

Fixed issue with repeated anchor drag alarms

Fixed issue where Move Waypoint could move the wrong waypoint

Fixed issues with dashboards disappearing

Fixed issues with Find Next Closest while geocaching

Fixed issue where part of the map was unresponsive to touches

Fixed issue where nuvi mode speed field could be red while not speeding

Modified default map trails to appear as dashed red lines

Added ability to add multiple points to a route without leaving the map

[+michaelnel]

Did they ever fix the issue of the compass display being extremely erratic while routing is in any mode but DIRECT?

[+Bullygoat29]

Changes made from version 3.10 to 3.20:

Fixed display issues during spell searches

Fixed ability to enable mapsets using shortcuts

Fixed ability to mute or unmute volume using shortcuts

Fixed issue with repeated anchor drag alarms

Fixed issue where Move Waypoint could move the wrong waypoint

Fixed issues with dashboards disappearing

Fixed issues with Find Next Closest while geocaching

Fixed issue where part of the map was unresponsive to touches

Fixed issue where nuvi mode speed field could be red while not speeding

Modified default map trails to appear as dashed red lines

Added ability to add multiple points to a route without leaving the map

 

I'm glad to see they fixed the spell search. That was incredibly annoying. I wondering if the uresponsive touches refers to the screens that couldn't be calibrated?

 

Did they ever fix the issue of the compass display being extremely erratic while routing is in any mode but DIRECT?

 

Which compass display were you using? A dashboard or the actual compass screen?

[yogazoo]

The trails on my Topo 24K series maps still display as the exact same color as unpaved roads despite this issue being in the change log for version 3.2. I'm using Garmins official 24k Topo series - North Central. Can anyone with the Garmin 24k maps confirm this? Thanks!

[Barrikady]

The trails on my Topo 24K series maps still display as the exact same color as unpaved roads despite this issue being in the change log for version 3.2. I'm using Garmins official 24k Topo series - North Central. Can anyone with the Garmin 24k maps confirm this? Thanks!

Yogazoo,

 

I have Garmin's 24k West Topographic map installed in my Montana which is running SW version 3.20.

 

I did a rudimentary check of two different locations: Yosemite National Park and Mount Tamalpais California State Park.

 

Both locations show trails as dashed red lines. I do not know if all trails in the above mentioned parks are dashed red lines, but my quick check does confirm that the 24K West Topo map shows at the least some trail as dashed red lines.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Barrikady

[TheArabianHunter]

The trails on my Topo 24K series maps still display as the exact same color as unpaved roads despite this issue being in the change log for version 3.2. I'm using Garmins official 24k Topo series - North Central. Can anyone with the Garmin 24k maps confirm this? Thanks!

 

Yes

 

I have mountains/South

 

trails and unpaived road show the same

 

I hope no one will drive his car down a Grand Canyon trail

Edited August 29, 2011 by TheArabianHunter

[+michaelnel]

Which compass display were you using? A dashboard or the actual compass screen?

 

Both. The issue wasn't which compass widget was in use, it was whether or not auto-routing using either City Navigator or OSM routable maps were being used. The compass worked OK when direct routing was being used.

Edited August 29, 2011 by michaelnel

[+Walts Hunting]

I checked Yosemite and got the different color. Around here it seems all the trails are unpaved roads so I couldn't locate any.

[yogazoo]

I checked Yosemite and got the different color. Around here it seems all the trails are unpaved roads so I couldn't locate any.

 

Your statement is confusing. You couldn't find any or your trails show as red dashes and your unpaved roads are gray?

[Barrikady]

I checked Yosemite and got the different color. Around here it seems all the trails are unpaved roads so I couldn't locate any.

 

Your statement is confusing. You couldn't find any or your trails show as red dashes and your unpaved roads are gray?

Yogazoo,

 

I feel fairly sure that "Walts Hunting" is saying that when he looked at Yosemite he saw the single track trails as red dashes. In the area where he lives most of the "trails" are dirt road or old logging roads, and they are shown as gray. I noticed the same thing in the San Francisco Bay area. Old logging roads or fire roads are still shown as gray, whereas single track trails are, in the main, shown with red dashes.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Barrikady

[+Walts Hunting]

You got it. Thought my statement was pretty clear. Trails here atre Old roads.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Walts Hunting

[yogazoo]

I checked Yosemite and got the different color. Around here it seems all the trails are unpaved roads so I couldn't locate any.

 

Sorry, I found it consufing because I read it as "Yosemite" and "Around Here" was the same area and not two different places. So when you said you found some and then said you couldn't, it was obviously confusing to me.

 

Thanks for checking. Those of you with the 24K North Central maps appear to be out of luck as the trails and the unpaved roads are still the same coloration.

[+Walts Hunting]

I checked Yosemite and got the different color. Around here it seems all the trails are unpaved roads so I couldn't locate any.

 

Sorry, I found it consufing because I read it as "Yosemite" and "Around Here" was the same area and not two different places. So when you said you found some and then said you couldn't, it was obviously confusing to me.

 

Thanks for checking. Those of you with the 24K North Central maps appear to be out of luck as the trails and the unpaved roads are still the same coloration.

 

I think you might be misjudging something. A trail that started out life as a road (paved or not) or a logging road (never paved) and now has been restricted to trail status is still considered a road so are not red. Trails that start out as trails are red colored. Every trail I go on around here appears to have started as a road.

 

All companies that I am familiar with get their map data from NavTeq. Each line segment has an identifying code attached to it that tells programs what it is. When it is converted it appears that the underlying code is not changed so programs think they are roads.

 

Short of a nation (if not world) wide audit to change them to trails there is probably not a solution.

 

What I have done is use Mapsource to draw a track, save it as a GPX file and load it to the Montana. Don't know of any other way to get them as tracks. Doesn't take that much time and generally I work on it when watching sports where continual attention isn't required.

 

People with the mapset you mentioned are not out of luck. The mapset displays the correct status. If they are not marked as a trail by the code they are not red.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Walts Hunting

[+Walts Hunting]

OOPS hit something to soon.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Walts Hunting

[+Walts Hunting]

Just wanted to mention one thing that was discussed extensively when the 24K series came out. They are missing a HUGE amount of roads that have been converted to trails. I hike in and around the Auburn/Coloma area and my 2008 TOPO has many, many of those that are missing from the 24K. It is almost as if the 24K is trails only.

 

If you have or can get a copy of the 100K US TOPO you will see what I mean. That is what I draw the tracks on that I load to my Garmin.

[+ecanderson]

They are missing a HUGE amount of roads that have been converted to trails.

If they've been killing vehicular traffic as fast in your area as they have in ours, you won't have to worry about it for much longer... just call 'em all trails and be done with it. Certain counties in Colorado have shutting down mountain roads that have existed since before the turn of the century (the 'other' one) as fast as they can. Soon, if you can't walk there or make it on a skate board, you won't be able to go there. The annoying part is that some of these roads are being turned over to local landowners and turned into private property, eliminating access to some public areas entirely.

 

The USFS has lately been 'forgetting' their own roads in their mapping, too. There's been a concerted effort to remap those (many by geocachers) and kinda 'force' them to update their maps via updates.

[yogazoo]

I think you might be misjudging something. A trail that started out life as a road (paved or not) or a logging road (never paved) and now has been restricted to trail status is still considered a road so are not red. Trails that start out as trails are red colored. Every trail I go on around here appears to have started as a road.

Garmin acquired special trail data for the state of Montana and I would assume elsewhere. Some trail data was acquired from municipalities who are the only ones with that data such as my hometown of Helena. They incorporated that data into the 24K mapset (Kudo's for incorporating it) making it very detailed in my area. They also acquired trail data from regional forest service offices (and give them credit inside the packaging). They did not get the majority of trail data from Navteq.

 

All companies that I am familiar with get their map data from NavTeq. Each line segment has an identifying code attached to it that tells programs what it is. When it is converted it appears that the underlying code is not changed so programs think they are roads.

They got most, if not all trail data from USFS and municipalities that had trail data. They got very little if any trail data from Navteq. These lines were indeed given the code for trails (0X16). See below.

 

Short of a nation (if not world) wide audit to change them to trails there is probably not a solution.

The trails (that are colored the same as unpaved roads in my region) are indeed TYPED as trails, not unpaved roads. It's an error in the TYPing coloration that can be easily fixed with either a map update or a unit firmware update (like they issued in v3.2) for certain areas. This evening I actually took a closer look at one of the 24k tiles and lowe and behold the trails are indeed 0X16 (TRAILS). Someone at Garmin could easily write a TYP or issue a small update to the mapset or firmware to get these trails colored correctly. The point being, If I can identify and propose a fix so can Garmin.

 

People with the mapset you mentioned are not out of luck. The mapset displays the correct status. If they are not marked as a trail by the code they are not red.

Well, given that the trails are TYPED as trails (0X16) we are out of luck. I work at a sporting goods store part time and I can't tell you how many people come in and ask me why their $100 mapset doesn't distinguish roads from trails. These lines, the trail data I mentioned earlier are indeed TYPED as TRAIL (0X16). Garmin simply doesn't appear to be diverting resources to fix this issue for users across the entire US. They could, and I would predict rather easily, but whether they deem it worthwile is another story.

Edited August 30, 2011 by yogazoo

[+michaelnel]

It seems to me that Garmin is concerned with selling features, and the quality of their products has never seemed to matter as much to them as adding more bullet points on the marketing materials. And once the product is out there, they seem even less interested in fixing preexisting issues. Look at the Birdseye data SNAFU, for instance.

[+mamoreb]

It seems to me that Garmin is concerned with selling features, and the quality of their products has never seemed to matter as much to them as adding more bullet points on the marketing materials. And once the product is out there, they seem even less interested in fixing preexisting issues. Look at the Birdseye data SNAFU, for instance.

 

That is not my experience. I have e-mailed Garmin 3-4 times about bugs I have found on my Montana. They have always responded within a day or two, requesting new info, usually solving the problem by the next SW update.

[yogazoo]

It seems to me that Garmin is concerned with selling features, and the quality of their products has never seemed to matter as much to them as adding more bullet points on the marketing materials. And once the product is out there, they seem even less interested in fixing preexisting issues. Look at the Birdseye data SNAFU, for instance.

 

That's why they've made subtle hardware improvements in the past to models like the Colorado, Oregon and 62, because they don't care about the quality of their products.

 

Alright, we get it man, you don't like Garmin products. If your constant bashing doesn't tip us off, your subtle avatar will. Is there anything nice you can say about Garmin? Any GPS manufacturer for that matter?

[+Geocass&Andy750x]

Super impressed with the latest update: "Fixed issues with dashboards disappearing" and "Fixed issues with Find Next Closest while geocaching" were the two problems I was experiencing. I emailed the beta team on Wednesday to explain the problem. They immediately requested some additional information, then emailed me on Monday to say try v3.2. Sure enough it fixed my problem! What a quick turn around!!!

 

FYI, these problems were only caused because I use Garmin Custom Maps. Turning these off stopped the problem, which would probably explain why others didn't have the problem. With v3.2 my Custom Maps are now happy and so am I!

 

Cass

[+michaelnel]

Is there anything nice you can say about Garmin?

 

I think the Garmin GPSMap 62S is the best handheld dedicated GPS currently available.

 

Any GPS manufacturer for that matter?

 

Sure. I think the Delorme PN-60 is the second best one. It would be the first best if the screen wasn't so tiny.

 

 

[yogazoo]

The trails on my Topo 24K series maps still display as the exact same color as unpaved roads despite this issue being in the change log for version 3.2. I'm using Garmins official 24k Topo series - North Central. Can anyone with the Garmin 24k maps confirm this? Thanks!

 

If any of you still do not see trails as red dashed lines after software v3.2...

 

I fixed this problem after uninstalling my original installation of Topo 24k and reinstalling a fresh copy onto my PC. I then generated a new .IMG from the fresh installation and vwalla, red trails!

Edited September 1, 2011 by yogazoo

[Barrikady]

The trails on my Topo 24K series maps still display as the exact same color as unpaved roads despite this issue being in the change log for version 3.2. I'm using Garmins official 24k Topo series - North Central. Can anyone with the Garmin 24k maps confirm this? Thanks!

 

If any of you still do not see trails as red dashed lines after software v3.2...

 

I fixed this problem after uninstalling my original installation of Topo 24k and reinstalling a fresh copy. I then generated a new .IMG from the fresh installation and vwalla, red trails!

Excellent!

[+Walts Hunting]

 

Garmin acquired special trail data for the state of Montana and I would assume elsewhere. Some trail data was acquired from municipalities who are the only ones with that data such as my hometown of Helena. They incorporated that data into the 24K mapset (Kudo's for incorporating it) making it very detailed in my area. They also acquired trail data from regional forest service offices (and give them credit inside the packaging). They did not get the majority of trail data from Navteq.

 

 

I ran your comments about where they get the data from by Garmin and below is their response. I was wondering what you based your response on since it is doesn't appear to match Garmin's.

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I would be happy to help

you with this. Garmin doesn't produce the TOPO mapping software, the

maps are produced by NAVTEQ. If you would like more information about

the mapping detail and coding, please contact our cartography department

at the email below they may have immediate information for you or will

be able to contact NAVTEQ for more information.

[yogazoo]

I ran your comments about where they get the data from by Garmin and below is their response. I was wondering what you based your response on since it is doesn't appear to match Garmin's.

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I would be happy to help

you with this. Garmin doesn't produce the TOPO mapping software, the

maps are produced by NAVTEQ. If you would like more information about

the mapping detail and coding, please contact our cartography department

at the email below they may have immediate information for you or will

be able to contact NAVTEQ for more information.

 

Since the maps are a Garmin product, I referred to Garmin as the ones who acquired the data. Semantics. Whomever acquired the data, Navteq, Garmin, they used data from various agencies as well as county and local GIS departments for most of the trails and some roads. They added trails as trails and until recently had the firmware color coding them incorrectly.

 

Garmin/Navteq even contacted local GIS departments to request trail data that was available. Example below. Two screenshots of Helena, MT. The trails data in the hills south of town was generated by the City of Helena's GIS department. The only place to get this trail data is to contact the city or to go on their website to download the shapefiles. Also, inside the jacket of the product Garmin/Navteq gives credit to various specific USFS ranger districts across Montana and also the County of Lewis & Clark for providing data. Alot of this data has been gathered and didn't come from Navteq's data pool. The trail data below is found nowhere else, not in any another GPS mapset, nor any USGS quad. Only two places you can find this trail data is the City website and Garmins 24k series (and in the NW trails map on GPSfiledepot because I sent him the shapefile).

 

Image from the City of Helena (Lewis & Clark County) GIS viewer:

 

Image From Garmin 24K Topo Product:

 

To a keen eye you can see some trail segments missing from the current Helena GIS viewer compared with the Garmin 24k map. That's because the city cleaned up some of the trails that didn't really exist since Navteq got the shapefiles a few years ago.

 

If you'd like more examples I can provide them. I've juxtaposed alot of USFS trail shapefile data with Garmins 24k maps and it jives. I suppose where Navteq couldn't find more specific trail data they just used 100k data or perhaps their own shallow pool of trails but the effort to acquire comprehensive data is apparent and one would assume that they didn't just do it for the 27 people who live in Montana.

 

Added: I think the larger case the DVD came in has been reduced to a smaller jacket these days. But if you can find one in the larger case look inside and read the fine print and see what agecies are given credit for providing data. I'd be curious to know about regions other than North Central.

Edited September 1, 2011 by yogazoo

[kb6ooc]

 

If any of you still do not see trails as red dashed lines after software v3.2...

 

I fixed this problem after uninstalling my original installation of Topo 24k and reinstalling a fresh copy onto my PC. I then generated a new .IMG from the fresh installation and vwalla, red trails!

 

I'm in California and I had a look at various trails leading out of Yosemite Valley. None are red for me, unfortunately.

 

I wonder why the uninstall/reinstall would fix it? The .IMG file you generate should be identical to the .IMG file you had before. Your computer doesn't know anything about the firmware version in the Montana, so I would expect it to generate an identical .IMG file.

 

Odd. I'll give it a try. It's gonna take HOURS to do it though. Map generation is sooooo slowwwwwww.

[yogazoo]

I'm in California and I had a look at various trails leading out of Yosemite Valley. None are red for me, unfortunately.

 

I wonder why the uninstall/reinstall would fix it? The .IMG file you generate should be identical to the .IMG file you had before. Your computer doesn't know anything about the firmware version in the Montana, so I would expect it to generate an identical .IMG file.

 

Odd. I'll give it a try. It's gonna take HOURS to do it though. Map generation is sooooo slowwwwwww.

 

I've been experimenting a bit and while you MUST perform a reinstall of the mapset on your PC you DON'T have to reinstall an entire .IMG. Keep your existing .IMG on the unit (or SD card) and rename the extension (simply remove the ".IMG" at the end). Now load a single tile from the fresh install onto the unit and start it up. You'll now see the trails as red. Turn your unit off, delete the single tile mapset and give your original .IMG it's extansion back. Vwalla! Red trails.

 

Indeed the behavior is strange, I don't understand it at all but it works! My theory is that somewhere inside the unit is a log of map settings and colorations and until you refresh that with something altogether new, you may not get it to change or the new parameters to be recognized. Who knows.

[kb6ooc]

 

I've been experimenting a bit and while you MUST perform a reinstall of the mapset on your PC you DON'T have to reinstall an entire .IMG. Keep your existing .IMG on the unit (or SD card) and rename the extension (simply remove the ".IMG" at the end). Now load a single tile from the fresh install onto the unit and start it up. You'll now see the trails as red. Turn your unit off, delete the single tile mapset and give your original .IMG it's extansion back. Vwalla! Red trails.

 

 

I just did a re-install, but I did it by just installing the Topo 24K right on top of the existing MapSource installation. I don't know if there is a way to remove the existing 24K map or not. Either way, I installed the Topo 24K over the existing one. Went back into Mapsource, zoomed into the Yosemite, selected 4 map squares, installed them into the Montana and the trails are still the same old color (white/gray) - not red. Will fiddle more. Maybe a v3.30 firmware will fix this.

[yogazoo]

I just did a re-install, but I did it by just installing the Topo 24K right on top of the existing MapSource installation. I don't know if there is a way to remove the existing 24K map or not. Either way, I installed the Topo 24K over the existing one. Went back into Mapsource, zoomed into the Yosemite, selected 4 map squares, installed them into the Montana and the trails are still the same old color (white/gray) - not red. Will fiddle more. Maybe a v3.30 firmware will fix this.

 

Hmm, you might have to completely uninstall your current installation or load 24k onto a new computer and load the .img from there. Sorry to hear your having problems. I know how frustrating it can be.

[kb6ooc]

I just did a re-install, but I did it by just installing the Topo 24K right on top of the existing MapSource installation. I don't know if there is a way to remove the existing 24K map or not. Either way, I installed the Topo 24K over the existing one. Went back into Mapsource, zoomed into the Yosemite, selected 4 map squares, installed them into the Montana and the trails are still the same old color (white/gray) - not red. Will fiddle more. Maybe a v3.30 firmware will fix this.

 

Hmm, you might have to completely uninstall your current installation or load 24k onto a new computer and load the .img from there. Sorry to hear your having problems. I know how frustrating it can be.

 

I got it working now. I had several maps (.IMG files) on the device. I went to the USB drive and renamed all of them from .IMG to .SAV - except for the 24K map. Now it shows dashed red & white lines for the trails. After that, one-by-one I renamed each .SAV back to .IMG and restarted the unit. Trails stayed red & white all the way until the last file was renamed back to its original .IMG name. Weird.