Challenges = "I Dare You?"

August 23, 2011

Is it me or am I missing something..

It would appear that geo-challenges are nothing more than a kids game of 'I Dare You..."

Was this created from user demand or is this some weird permutation of a virtual cache and if so, why have the separation?

August 23, 2011

What is the game "i dare you"

haven't ever heard about it,

i would quess i'm on wrong continent for that game

20.7k · August 23, 2011

I'm not really sure what the OP is referring to, but in my mind, Challenges are a very good plan to bring back virts, ALRs, webcam caches, and LCs.

2.1k · August 23, 2011

I'm not really sure what the OP is referring to, but in my mind, Challenges are a very good plan to bring back virts, ALRs, webcam caches, and LCs.

I feel like we need to have folks define what they think makes a good Challenge and then see what they've got in common.

11.2k · August 23, 2011

I agree. Challenges are similar to the "I Dare You" game!

August 23, 2011

How so? A Challenge Cache requires you to visit a location, just like a traditional cache, but instead of finding a box and signing a log, they ask you to either complete a fun task at the site or take a photo at the site.

Why all the negative drama over this great new concept? You're all welcome to NOT complete any Challenge Caches, ya know.

1.4k · August 23, 2011

I agree. Challenges are similar to the "I Dare You" game!

Unfortunately all the "I Dare You" games I've witnessed or participated in almost always ended up with someone getting hurt. The other times a parent noticed and quickly put a stop to it.

7k · August 23, 2011

I agree. Challenges are similar to the "I Dare You" game!

Yup, but location-based. If you keep the "dare" simple (e.g. just take a picture), then you get something very similar to a virtual

3.1k · August 23, 2011

Was this created from user demand or is this some weird permutation of a virtual cache and if so, why have the separation?

Both. The implementation of Challenges makes something resembling virtuals possible. The results are from geocachers using the implementation to do pretty much what they want (at least initially).

1.4k · August 23, 2011

What is the game "i dare you"

haven't ever heard about it,

i would quess i'm on wrong continent for that game

You never played "dare, double dare, torture, kiss, truth or promise?"

Your poor, deprived continent! :laughing:

1.4k · August 23, 2011

How so? A Challenge Cache requires you to visit a location, just like a traditional cache, but instead of finding a box and signing a log, they ask you to either complete a fun task at the site or take a photo at the site.

Because "completing fun tasks" is not finding something at a location. Finding something at a location is the core of geocaching.

The similarity with the I Dare You game is people just make up silly tasks just to find out how willing others are to do silly or dangerous tasks. The location becomes irrelevant other than providing a suitable setting: "I dare you to climb that flag pole" does not depend on which flagpole it is.

2.7k · August 23, 2011

Geocaches = "I Dare You" to find the tupperware I hid in the woods ....

August 23, 2011

Because "completing fun tasks" is not finding something at a location. Finding something at a location is the core of geocaching.

No, going to the location is the core of geocaching. It ain't about the box. It's about the place.

7k · August 23, 2011

No, going to the location is the core of geocaching. It ain't about the box. It's about the place.

Sorry, but no. Geocaching is about finding geocaches (or hiding them). If you just go to a certain location without finding a cache, then you're just "geoing" or whatever. :rolleyes:

August 23, 2011

I guess my concern is the following

- Challenges are not moderated.

- Challenges can be ridiculous, malicious etc, while geocaching is "finding a box and a log"

- The two shouldn't cross... Two different games, and perhaps audiences.

- Challenges are manual while GC's are automated.. I can find a cache, and upload it all automatically from a gps, where in the most extreme of challenges, you take a picture and upload it, putting manual requirements on the owner for validation, while GC's, you sign the log and have an audit trail.

I can see examples of good challenges:

- Go to the sign, tell me what word 1 7 19 21 and 30 is then go there, and take a picture.

And bad ones.

- Kiss a frog

- toilet paper someones house

- Drive 55 on the 101 freeway.

I still think virtuals is the way this should have gone. The current implementation seems wildly v1.0 and shows no value from the Groundspeak organization other than hosting a web page and tracking 'did its', rather than the careful inspection and dedication to geocaching.

1.9k · August 23, 2011

I understand what you mean. The 'do something' part, depending on what it is, may very likely make me skip the challenge.

I'm all for the go somewhere part. If the do something is reasonable (take a picture), then no problem. If the do something is silly/stupid/dangerous/outrageous/etc (do a phoon), then I'm not going to do that challenge.

1.4k · August 23, 2011

Geocaches = "I Dare You" to find the tupperware I hid in the woods ....

Not the same. Nice try. You could extend that line of reasoning to everything in life: "I dare you to go buy groceries".

The "I Dare You" game is about arbitrary tasks that a sane person would not normally do. The expectation is that something silly or bad will happen. Not so with finding tupperware in the woods.

1.4k · August 23, 2011

No, going to the location is the core of geocaching. It ain't about the box. It's about the place.

No, finding something at a location is the core of geocaching. Without the something it's called walking, hiking, running, driving, swimming, etc.

It doesn't have to be a box. For ECs it's something geological. For virtuals it was a little more flexible but there was still something there (information, geological or natural objects, etc).

The one thing it wasn't originally was actions. Then people tried adding actions and ALRs were invented. They were removed because they were not considered geocaching.

Go to a place. Find something at that place.

August 23, 2011

Here is another issue..

Repetition..

I bet you there are going to be 100's of these:

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX515

1.9k · August 23, 2011

Here is another issue..

Repetition..

I bet you there are going to be 100's of these:

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX515

In that case, there should not be. That is a worldwide challenge and can only be created by Groundspeak (at this point).

However, lots of players could use the same 'do something' part for their favorite location.

Additionally, a single location could have lots of different actions at it.

So yes, duplication is a concern that has not yet been addressed.

Edited August 23, 2011 by fuzziebear3

1.5k · August 23, 2011

Here is another issue..

Repetition..

I bet you there are going to be 100's of these:

http://www.geocachin...w.aspx?cx=CX515

Don't see any evidence of that but doesn't sound like a bad thing. "Gosh darn, there they go cleaning up the place again!"

2.7k · August 23, 2011

Geocaches = "I Dare You" to find the tupperware I hid in the woods ....

Not the same. Nice try. You could extend that line of reasoning to everything in life: "I dare you to go buy groceries".

The "I Dare You" game is about arbitrary tasks that a sane person would not normally do. The expectation is that something silly or bad will happen. Not so with finding tupperware in the woods.

Most people who are not geocachers do not normally go out into the woods and look for hidden objects. It's all a matter of perspective.

7k · August 23, 2011

Geocaches = "I Dare You" to find the tupperware I hid in the woods ....

Not the same. Nice try. You could extend that line of reasoning to everything in life: "I dare you to go buy groceries".

The "I Dare You" game is about arbitrary tasks that a sane person would not normally do. The expectation is that something silly or bad will happen. Not so with finding tupperware in the woods.

Most people who are not geocachers do not normally go out into the woods and look for hidden objects. It's all a matter of perspective.

I think it's quite accurate. Hiding a geocache is daring someone to go and find it. After all, that's the only reason why you put it out there in the first place...

1.4k · August 23, 2011

Most people who are not geocachers do not normally go out into the woods and look for hidden objects. It's all a matter of perspective.

Most people don't go scuba diving but it's still not the same as "I Dare You". Scuba diving, mountain climbing, geocaching, etc. are activities. Yes, you can dare someone to go diving, climbing, caching but that does not make that activity the same as "I Dare You".

Challenges however are the very definition of the "I Dare You" game. You're making up arbitrary tasks and trying to get people to do them.

7k · August 23, 2011

Challenges however are the very definition of the "I Dare You" game. You're making up arbitrary tasks and trying to get people to do them.

No, that's only one way of doing them. Granted, the examples proposed by Groundspeak were of this kind and were not the best, but that's not how all challenges have to be. Unless you think that "take a picture of yourself at that location" is a purely arbitrary task. :huh:

Edited August 23, 2011 by dfx

2.7k · August 23, 2011

Most people who are not geocachers do not normally go out into the woods and look for hidden objects. It's all a matter of perspective.

Most people don't go scuba diving but it's still not the same as "I Dare You". Scuba diving, mountain climbing, geocaching, etc. are activities. Yes, you can dare someone to go diving, climbing, caching but that does not make that activity the same as "I Dare You".

Challenges however are the very definition of the "I Dare You" game. You're making up arbitrary tasks and trying to get people to do them.

Nope. Not all the Challenges are expecting silly results or bodily harm. There are straight forward go here, have your photo taken with this interesting thing Challenges.

There are lot of physical geocaches where bodily harm is expected, or something silly is expected too. Like those caches placed on islands in urban parks where canoes are not normally used.

1.4k · August 23, 2011

I think it's quite accurate. Hiding a geocache is daring someone to go and find it. After all, that's the only reason why you put it out there in the first place...

I dare you to go to a movie. I dare you to eat at a restaurant. I dare you to go for a walk. We're starting to play word games again and you know how much I just like those.

If you two want to debate the semantics of the word dare, go right ahead. But please stop derailing threads with stuff like that.

1.4k · August 23, 2011

Challenges however are the very definition of the "I Dare You" game. You're making up arbitrary tasks and trying to get people to do them.

No, that's only one way of doing them. Granted, the examples proposed by Groundspeak were of this kind and were not the best, but that's not how all challenges have to be.

All action challenges are. And a lot of photo challenges are too since they're action challenges in disguise.

Unless you think that "take a picture of yourself at that location" is a purely arbitrary task.

No, because it's the nature of a photo challenge. Take a picture of the location or you at the location is the purpose of the photo challenge. It's not arbitrary since it's the same idea for all photo challenges.

1.4k · August 23, 2011

Nope. Not all the Challenges are expecting silly results or bodily harm. There are straight forward go here, have your photo taken with this interesting thing Challenges.

Yes, the proper use of a photo challenge. Too bad they're rare and getting voted down by people who think they're not "challenges".

There are lot of physical geocaches where bodily harm is expected, or something silly is expected too. Like those caches placed on islands in urban parks where canoes are not normally used.

Yes, there are a few bad COs out there but that's the exeption not the rule.

7k · August 23, 2011

Challenges however are the very definition of the "I Dare You" game. You're making up arbitrary tasks and trying to get people to do them.

No, that's only one way of doing them. Granted, the examples proposed by Groundspeak were of this kind and were not the best, but that's not how all challenges have to be.

All action challenges are. And a lot of photo challenges are too since they're action challenges in disguise.

Unless you think that "take a picture of yourself at that location" is a purely arbitrary task.

No, because it's the nature of a photo challenge. Take a picture of the location or you at the location is the purpose of the photo challenge. It's not arbitrary since it's the same idea for all photo challenges.

Right, so where's the problem? Challenges were designed to be a superset of virtuals. You can do all (well, not all, but eventually you may be able to) that you used to be able to do with virtuals, and more. Groundspeak even says so. If you don't like to do something silly somewhere, then don't do it. You can even vote the challenge down if you'd like. That's the whole point of the system, the community gets to decide what's good and what isn't. Look for the challenges that don't have arbitrary tasks linked to the according to your standards, do them if you like, vote them up if you like. Or create some of your own if you like. Or, if you like, ignore everything about them altogether.

1.7k · August 23, 2011

"If you do not join the dancing you will feel foolish. So why not dance? And i will tell you a secret: If you do not join the dance, we will know you are a fool. But if you dance, we will think well of you for trying. if you dance badly to begin and we laugh, what is the sin in that? We will begin there."

— Robert Fulghum (What On Earth Have I Done?: Stories, Observations, and Affirmations)

No one forces me to play, nor do I force anyone else to play. I will play for as long as I can enjoy the game.

7k · August 23, 2011

Nope. Not all the Challenges are expecting silly results or bodily harm. There are straight forward go here, have your photo taken with this interesting thing Challenges.

Yes, the proper use of a photo challenge. Too bad they're rare and getting voted down by people who think they're not "challenges".

I don't see that. Around here, the opposite is happening. Challenges with simple "go and take a picture" tasks are getting voted up, the ones with silly tasks are getting voted down. Maybe you need to set some good examples in your area?

Edited August 23, 2011 by dfx

2.7k · August 23, 2011

Nope. Not all the Challenges are expecting silly results or bodily harm. There are straight forward go here, have your photo taken with this interesting thing Challenges.

Yes, the proper use of a photo challenge. Too bad they're rare and getting voted down by people who think they're not "challenges".

And hopefully in time the ridiculous down-voting will calm down. There are people down voting just because it is a "challenge" or because it isn't a "challenge" or because it's Tuesday.

There are lot of physical geocaches where bodily harm is expected, or something silly is expected too. Like those caches placed on islands in urban parks where canoes are not normally used.

Yes, there are a few bad COs out there but that's the exeption not the rule.

It's a trend. I tend to see more of the "I dare you" type caches when some local gets mad at a reviewer over something. There may be more Challenges structured as "Dares" due to the nature of things, but it does occur on both sides.

And yes, there are people who think I am insane because I spend my weekends roaming around looking for Tupperware.

1.4k · August 23, 2011

Right, so where's the problem?

Because some people consider "I Dare You?" to be a childish game which mirrors Action Challenges being a childish game. Whether that's a problem or not is up to debate and the topic of this thread.

Challenges were designed to be a superset of virtuals. You can do all (well, not all, but eventually you may be able to) that you used to be able to do with virtuals, and more.

Being able to do more is not always better. ECs are a prime example. They have rules and restrictions which raises the quality of the caches. There's too much anarchy currently. I'm waiting to see if things calm down or not.

Groundspeak even says so.

Groundspeak has said a lot of things in the past...

If you don't like to do something silly somewhere, then don't do it. You can even vote the challenge down if you'd like. That's the whole point of the system, the community gets to decide what's good and what isn't.

That system falls apart when the community is fragmented in what they want. Groundspeak should do a little enforcement in categorizing things. Then let the community decide based on those categories. The people who want to do silly challenges can vote on the silly challenges. The people who just like taking pictures can vote on the picture ones. Etc.

Look for the challenges that don't have arbitrary tasks linked to the according to your standards, do them if you like, vote them up if you like.

There's no system in place for me to easily filter things and mark challenges to ignore.

Or create some of your own if you like.

I might when things settle down. I don't like the fact that I'm not really the owner though.

Or, if you like, ignore everything about them altogether.

I am ignoring them in the sense I'm not participating. Doesn't mean I can't point out the flaws in the system in hopes that it will evolve into something I want to participate in.

1.4k · August 23, 2011

I don't see that. Around here, the opposite is happening. Challenges with simple "go and take a picture" tasks are getting voted up, the ones with silly tasks are getting voted down. Maybe you need to set some good examples in your area?

Then there's hope! :lol:

As I wrote already, a few things need to change before I start posting challenges.

7k · August 23, 2011

Right, so where's the problem?

Because some people consider "I Dare You?" to be a childish game which mirrors Action Challenges being a childish game. Whether that's a problem or not is up to debate and the topic of this thread.

Well, since we've established that not all challenges fall into the "I dare you" category, it's safe to say that challenges per se can't be considered as childish games. You can say that those challenges which are set up in the same manner as an "I dare you" kinda thing (which doesn't even apply to all action challenges) are childish, and I may even agree with you on that. But since not all challenges are like that (which is what the OP implies), you can't say that challenges are childish.

1.4k · August 23, 2011

Because "completing fun tasks" is not finding something at a location. Finding something at a location is the core of geocaching.

No, going to the location is the core of geocaching. It ain't about the box. It's about the place.

This may be part of the problem. Some think it is about the place, and some of us think it is about the box.

I love it when Geocaching takes me to a great spot I haven't been to before. However, I am quite happy to just find a well hid box at a random spot in the woods. The location has always been second to the cache. Without a cache, you are just Geo-ing.

That is not to say challenges wouldn't be fun, just that they are a different game, not GeoCACHing.

August 23, 2011

This is an interesting thread and seems to mirror my own internal ambivalence! I have completed two challenges, created one challenge (all in the spirit of making a positive contribution) – but I am left thinking – what the heck is this thing called a challenge? Where did this come from? Why? (What’s wrong with Tupperware in the woods?)

I’m not too insistent on finding a container with a log (earthcaches are my favourite and there is no such requirement) but I can’t quite generate any real enthusiasm for challenges either. Somehow it doesn’t feel right. (Existential issues!)

For me – the challenges are so varied (almost arbitrary) – I can’t quite see how they fit well with geocaching! (I know this is my own limitation – before I am shot down in flames).

I guess I will just maintain a respectable distance from challenges for now (now that I have dipped my toe and found it quite unsatisfactory); respect the right of others to enjoy them and just wait and see what this turns into!

For now I am cross-eyed with bemusement!

8k · August 23, 2011

Virtual caches were grandfathered because there were several issues with them. You can look at

I made that discusses some of these and how Grounspeak came up with the Waymarking.com site to address these. But Waymarking did not work satisfactorily for some geocachers who still wanted something like virtual caches on the Geocaching.com site. Challenges are an attempt to provide an option on Geocaching.com that still addresses most of the issues that virtual caches had.

The challenge aspect of challenges is an attempt to move away from the "wow" aspect that plagued virtual caches. "Wow" was a difficult thing to define. Many geocachers enjoyed virtuals not because the location was particular beautiful or historic but instead because there was a moment of discovery or accomplishment when then arrived at the virtual cache location and completed the task the virtual owner has set out. Jeremy calls this the "Eureka" moment. The challenge part of challenges is supposed to give you that same feeling.

I guess my concern is the following

- Challenges are not moderated.

- Challenges can be ridiculous, malicious etc, while geocaching is "finding a box and a log"

- The two shouldn't cross... Two different games, and perhaps audiences.

- Challenges are manual while GC's are automated.. I can find a cache, and upload it all automatically from a gps, where in the most extreme of challenges, you take a picture and upload it, putting manual requirements on the owner for validation, while GC's, you sign the log and have an audit trail.

It's true challenges are not reviewed like virtual caches. One issue with the "wow" requirement was the burden it put on the volunteer reviewers. Instead of burdening them with deciding what challenges are "good" and which are "bad", they have come up with a system where anyone can flag an inapproriate challenges. If a challenge is flagged often enough it will automatically be archived.

Ridiculuous malicious challenges should probably be flagged, but what is ridiculous to one person may be fun for someone else. In addtion to flagging challenges you can vote thumbs up or down to indicate which ones you think are worth doing.

Challenges may be a different game than searching for a physical cache. This is why they are separate. But clearly from the number of geocachers who have asked for a virtual caching option, there is some crossover appeal. My guess is that as features get added, the similarity or difference of caches and challenges will become clearer.

Not sure what you mean by challenges be manual and caches being automatic. One issue is that there is no PQ for challenges yet. Once the GPX file definition is enhanced to account for them, there may be ways added to automate down loading of coordinates and uploading of completion logs. For those with smartphones, there are already free apps for challenges, so if you use an iPhone or android phone they're already pretty well automated.

Validation of logs will be an issue for some. With cache ownership there is a responsibility on the owner to maintain quality control of post to their cache pages. Since challenge have no owner the responsiblity falls to the community to flag questionable logs. However since not all challenges will be verifiable from the logs, it's obvious that some bogus logging will take place. We'll have to see how well the honor system works and what effect, if any, bogus logging has on the ability of honest people to enjoy challenges.

I can see examples of good challenges:

- Go to the sign, tell me what word 1 7 19 21 and 30 is then go there, and take a picture.

And bad ones.

- Kiss a frog

- toilet paper someones house

- Drive 55 on the 101 freeway.

I still think virtuals is the way this should have gone. The current implementation seems wildly v1.0 and shows no value from the Groundspeak organization other than hosting a web page and tracking 'did its', rather than the careful inspection and dedication to geocaching.

As stated above you can vote up or down what challenges you like or dislike. Ultimately, higer rated challenge should find their way to the top and the really bad ones will be hidden.

Bringing back virtuals would be a much more difficult task because of all the issues that still needed to be addressed. But challenges do seem to be a work in progress. Groundspeak has used this method before when rolling out new feature. The suggestions made in the feedback forum are all read, and for the next few iterations, you can expect to see some of these ideas from the community implemented. As I said above challenges will either become more similar to geocaches or the differences will become clearer, but this will depend on the community input.

Here is another issue..

Repetition..

I bet you there are going to be 100's of these:

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX515

Won't be 100's of these, as only Groundspeak can publish these worldwide (locationless) challenges. There may be hundred of different locations where someone thinks you can help out by picking up litter and challenges get created for each of these, but I hope there are more challenges placed with unique kinds of tasks that are specific to the location.

2.3k · August 23, 2011

I don't know all the games of truth or dare or just dare ended up in much much worse and more compromising scenarios than any of the challenges I've seen.

38.2k · August 24, 2011

I guess my concern is the following

- Challenges are not moderated.

- Challenges can be ridiculous, malicious etc, while geocaching is "finding a box and a log"

- The two shouldn't cross... Two different games, and perhaps audiences.

- Challenges are manual while GC's are automated.. I can find a cache, and upload it all automatically from a gps, where in the most extreme of challenges, you take a picture and upload it, putting manual requirements on the owner for validation, while GC's, you sign the log and have an audit trail.

I can see examples of good challenges:

- Go to the sign, tell me what word 1 7 19 21 and 30 is then go there, and take a picture.

And bad ones.

- Kiss a frog

- toilet paper someones house

- Drive 55 on the 101 freeway.

I still think virtuals is the way this should have gone. The current implementation seems wildly v1.0 and shows no value from the Groundspeak organization other than hosting a web page and tracking 'did its', rather than the careful inspection and dedication to geocaching.

You're mixing local challenges and worldwide challenges. Local challenges are all location based, like your example of going to a sign and taking a photo. I've set up several challenges that highlight local museums and require that those who accept have their photo or a photo of their GPS taken in front of the museums. That is nearly identical to the virtuals of old. Go to a specific location find what's there and do something.

I also have a challenge that requires acceptors to visit a very unique rock formation. It has a fun element as well. In order to complete it visitors must be photographed "phooning" on or in front of the formation. Go there, find it, do something. Just like virtuals.

Challenges are far more than just a game of "I dare you". Sure someone can add an "I dare you" element to a local challenge but it still involves going somewhere and finding something.

Your examples you use of driving 55 or toilet papering someones house would not be appropriate local challenges. Groundspeak is deleting those challenges as fast as they can identify them.

Edited August 24, 2011 by briansnat

1k · August 24, 2011

And bad ones.

- Kiss a frog

- toilet paper someones house

- Drive 55 on the 101 freeway.

People already do that in my area. If they're feeling particularly daredevilish that is. Most of the time it's around 40.

August 24, 2011

You never played "dare, double dare, torture, kiss, truth or promise?"

Your poor, deprived continent!

Sounds pretty sexy.

9.3k · August 24, 2011

Because "completing fun tasks" is not finding something at a location. Finding something at a location is the core of geocaching.

My last virtual, (I think?), was a B-52 Bomber, set up as a memorial. Not exactly a tough find. The thing is as big as several houses. The task required to claim credit for that virtual is, "Take a picture of you showing the nose cone". That sure does sound like a photo challenge to me. The first virtual I did was at a major theme park. (If memory serves, it it the most favorited cache on the planet) The task? Post a picture of yourself. Again, sounds like a photo challenge.

If someone were to create photo challenges at both sites, wouldn't finding each site be an intrinsic part of the challenge? If the answer to that is "Yes", then wouldn't they also fit with the "core of geocaching"?

5.7k · August 24, 2011

And bad ones.

- Kiss a frog

- toilet paper someones house

- Drive 55 on the 101 freeway.

People already do that in my area. If they're feeling particularly daredevilish that is. Most of the time it's around 40.

So, what kind of challange would this place be good for? For a skateborder? :anitongue:

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WM4Y5K_Scott_Adams_Memorial_Skate_Park_Kingsport_TN :lol: :lol: :lol:

August 24, 2011

I don't mind the new twist on the game. To me it does sound a lot like I dare you and I don't mind that, I really wish they weren't called challenges though because that's confusing with the challenge caches that were already out there. We were wanting those to be there own category/icon so finding them would be easier but now that these are challenges it will be very confusing.

1.4k · August 24, 2011

You never played "dare, double dare, torture, kiss, truth or promise?"

Your poor, deprived continent!

Sounds pretty sexy.

Not to me. 'Chinese burns' on the arm? ('Indian rug burn') a worm dropped down your back? Kiss your friend's little brother (if you could catch him)? We played it until the first of our group actually wanted to kiss a boy and then somehow the game stopped, as if overnight.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Fianccetto

1.4k · August 24, 2011

The challenge aspect of challenges is an attempt to move away from the "wow" aspect that plagued virtual caches. "Wow" was a difficult thing to define. Many geocachers enjoyed virtuals not because the location was particular beautiful or historic but instead because there was a moment of discovery or accomplishment when then arrived at the virtual cache location and completed the task the virtual owner has set out. Jeremy calls this the "Eureka" moment. The challenge part of challenges is supposed to give you that same feeling.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Most challenges are missing that "Eureka" moment. That's probably why I dislike them so much. Wearing a funny hat, high fiving in the air, or some other silly task just doesn't give me that discovery feeling I get with virtuals.

1.4k · August 24, 2011

I also have a challenge that requires acceptors to visit a very unique rock formation. It has a fun element as well. In order to complete it visitors must be photographed "phooning" on or in front of the formation. Go there, find it, do something. Just like virtuals.

The only caches I've done that required me to phoon, jump or do some other silly task were traditionals/puzzles with ALRs and not virtuals.

38.2k · August 24, 2011

The challenge aspect of challenges is an attempt to move away from the "wow" aspect that plagued virtual caches. "Wow" was a difficult thing to define. Many geocachers enjoyed virtuals not because the location was particular beautiful or historic but instead because there was a moment of discovery or accomplishment when then arrived at the virtual cache location and completed the task the virtual owner has set out. Jeremy calls this the "Eureka" moment. The challenge part of challenges is supposed to give you that same feeling.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Most challenges are missing that "Eureka" moment. That's probably why I dislike them so much. Wearing a funny hat, high fiving in the air, or some other silly task just doesn't give me that discovery feeling I get with virtuals.

Not all virtuals had an "eureka moment". About half of the virtuals I've encountered told you up front what you were expected to find. Heck, some even have photos of the object on the page.

Similarly not every challenge will have an eureka moment, but many certainly will. Here is one that was posted near me that will certainly have as much an eureka moment as any virtual I've found http://coord.info/CX1018

Just as with virtuals and real caches, the creativity of the person who submitted it will have a direct relationship to the quality of the challenge. Some people place guardrail micros and some place imaginative caches that test mind, vision and body. Some people will submit silly challenges and some will submit outstanding challenges.

Edited August 24, 2011 by briansnat

Challenges = "I Dare You?"

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