Are containers history?

[+Vater_Araignee]

Finding the container is #1 for me.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

TAR, if it turns out to be true, then it's been nice knowing you and meeting you in person at the Great Northern Tier Geocaching Tournament. But I prefer the container to find at the end of my journey, the online log, owning my caches and cache pages myself, having control over them, what the pages look like, being able to edit my finds, add a bunch of photos, etc.... I would hate to see it turn into a container-less game, and I would have to kiss the hobby goodbye, and take up something else. Sad, but true. I don't think it will happen though. Trackables are part of the revenue base, are they not? Hardly anyone likes proxies, so what happens to TBs and geocoins? Virtual won't work there.

Hearsay is just that, hearsay. But have you ever played "telephone"?

Sure, I totally understand the value and issues with rumor, but this whole thread is predicated on one. If Challenges are in fact only 50% of what they will become and the community has input into that remaining 50% then I can see the things that you (and I) like about geocaching will come to Challenges.

[knowschad]

Seems to me that Challenges are a good way to fill in the gaps. We have areas like National parks that don't want Geocaches in them.

One thing that really surprised me about the move to bring virtuals back is that it has been said that one of the reasons behind banning them was that land managers were saying that they didn't weren't going to allow physical caches because virtual caches were available as an option, and did not require a physical container on their land.

[+tozainamboku]

What if you could get a guidebook that is always current and ever-changing?

 

That would be a PQ of Challenges Waymarking!

Perhaps. If Waymarking had PQs

 

When Waymarking first came out I recall posting something much like TARs post here. I didn't say it would be the end of the container but I did predict that there would be a whole group of people who whould find it more enjoyable to visit interesting places and find different activites beside looking for tupperware or nano capsules hidden in parking lots. I thought there were be all sorts of ways that this user provided database of locations would be used.

 

Well, that didn't happen. And I don't think that challenges will be any different.

 

Challenges are meant to address the strong interest by a segment of the geocaching community to include a game for places where geocaches couldn't be placed (or would be difficult to maintain). Many of these people didn't find going to a separate Waymarking.com website appealing, or they found that use of Waymarking to catalog all sorts of locations, even those that appear to be mundane, made it difficult to find the "wow" places that virtual caches brought them to.

 

I suspect that challenges will appeal to exactly this segment of the geocaching community. Those premium members who find places where the can't place a cache for some reason, will now have the option to create a challenge that will take people to that place. And those who want to visit places where there might not be a geocache to find, might be able to find a challenge there, or even a worldwide challenge that can be done there.

 

It may cause a few fewer physical cacche to be placed. Why spend money on a container that you have to maintain when you can just create a challenge? But the ownership of a real cache will still be appealing to many.

 

We'll also have to wait and see what effect the tools to flag and rate challenges will have. Will this limit some of the "lamer" ideas, or will only a basic set of challenges types that appeal to a larger cross-section of geocachers be able to avoid archiving? Some people my find the hassle of dealing with peer review too much and end up finding was to hide a physical cache instead. Or they may yet discover Waymarking and list the spot in a creative category that supports these less popular types of challenges.

[+Avernar]

Perhaps. If Waymarking had PQs

 

When Waymarking first came out I recall posting something much like TARs post here. I didn't say it would be the end of the container but I did predict that there would be a whole group of people who whould find it more enjoyable to visit interesting places and find different activites beside looking for tupperware or nano capsules hidden in parking lots. I thought there were be all sorts of ways that this user provided database of locations would be used.

 

Well, that didn't happen. And I don't think that challenges will be any different.

It probably didn't happen partly because of the lack of PQs. An iPhone app would have helped a lot too. I definitely would find way more Waymarks if there was an app. I really enjoy going to a location, finding something there and just taking a picture of it.

 

Challenges are meant to address the strong interest by a segment of the geocaching community to include a game for places where geocaches couldn't be placed (or would be difficult to maintain). Many of these people didn't find going to a separate Waymarking.com website appealing, or they found that use of Waymarking to catalog all sorts of locations, even those that appear to be mundane, made it difficult to find the "wow" places that virtual caches brought them to.

Winding "wow" places using challenges will be harder than with Waymarking. Waymarking has well defined categories.

 

Virtuals are good at bringing you to "wow" places mostly because the best survive. I belive a well defined rule set like ECs for virtuals would have been a better idea.

 

I suspect that challenges will appeal to exactly this segment of the geocaching community. Those premium members who find places where the can't place a cache for some reason, will now have the option to create a challenge that will take people to that place. And those who want to visit places where there might not be a geocache to find, might be able to find a challenge there, or even a worldwide challenge that can be done there.

 

It may cause a few fewer physical cacche to be placed. Why spend money on a container that you have to maintain when you can just create a challenge? But the ownership of a real cache will still be appealing to many.

 

We'll also have to wait and see what effect the tools to flag and rate challenges will have. Will this limit some of the "lamer" ideas, or will only a basic set of challenges types that appeal to a larger cross-section of geocachers be able to avoid archiving? Some people my find the hassle of dealing with peer review too much and end up finding was to hide a physical cache instead. Or they may yet discover Waymarking and list the spot in a creative category that supports these less popular types of challenges.

I don't mind people having fun with the new challenges. I just wish it were a little more distinct from geocaching.

[+niraD]

I love geocaching for all the location/experience factors but actually finding the cache has always been secondary to the overall experience. I could hunt location-based Challenges and be perfectly happy with the game...after all the silliness of stupid Challenges dies down they are just like virts and locationless and waymarks and benchmarks, none of which have containers either.

I think there are some like you, for whom the container is purely secondary, for whom the location/experience would be the same with or without the container.

 

But there are others for whom happiness is an ammo can in the woods, complete with trinkets and baubles and knickknacks.

 

And there are others for whom happiness is the challenge finding something extremely well hidden, which requires something to be extremely well hidden.

 

And there are others for whom happiness is a multi-stage adventure, and for whom the cache is the exclamation point at the end of the sentence that makes it all worthwhile. Can you imagine Benjamin Franklin Gates without a treasure room full of gold? Or Indiana Jones without some rare artifact? Or Jim Hawkins without Captain Flint's treasure? As grand as the adventure was, sometimes the "treasure" at the end is what makes it all worthwhile.

[+Rckhnd]

I think I just found the world's first geocide note. Apparently the writer wanted to to create containerless caches, but others in the group ridiculed the idea.

 

here's the link

 

+10 dave.

 

Yeah, and I love to drive, but all the cars on the road are ruining it for me!

[GOF and Bacall]

I decided early that it was the locations that were most important to me. But there is also that sense that you know a secret that those walking past never even suspect. That is the hidden containers draw. I hope they never leave the game. But that doesn't mean they have to be the only focus.

[karkess]

The fun of geocaching for myself is seeing what kind of interesting containers people devise when they put their minds to it. Seeing something cool is always a bonus, but finding the container is my goal.

[+DanOCan]

I agree with what some others have said -- Groundspeak has already shown us what Geocaching without containers would be and it is called Waymarking.

 

And, yes, it is very much like a guidebook that is always being updated. Perhaps that is why I tend to use Waymarking the most when I am traveling and never look at it when I am in my local area.

 

Want to locate a specific fast food restaurant? Waymarking will show you that.

Want to locate the grave of a famous person? Waymarking will show you that.

Want to see historic fire halls? Waymarking will show you that.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

The majority of the challenges I have seen (maybe all) do not require a GPSr at all. If you take the container out of the picture, there is no need to zero in on a 12' radius. WOW, if a website wanted to stick it to a greedy GPSr manufacturer, they could just heavily promote challenges. No, that's just crazy talk.

[jholly]

The majority of the challenges I have seen (maybe all) do not require a GPSr at all. If you take the container out of the picture, there is no need to zero in on a 12' radius. WOW, if a website wanted to stick it to a greedy GPSr manufacturer, they could just heavily promote challenges. No, that's just crazy talk.

Ever think there might be some non-greedy GPS manufacturers that would feel the pinch. One in particular provides lots of support for Groundspeak. Somehow that does not sound like a good idea. But I have noted that lately one manufacturer does seem to conspicuously absent at Groundspeak events.

[+Frank Broughton]

I decided early that it was the locations that were most important to me. But there is also that sense that you know a secret that those walking past never even suspect. That is the hidden containers draw. I hope they never leave the game. But that doesn't mean they have to be the only focus.

 

exactly how I see it and feel!

[+Cache Raiders]

Well, if this were the case then after all the major landmarks have been claimed as "challenges" then what will the future hold? Go to these coordinates and find this tree/ rock/ wall/ billboard/ sign/ bush/ statue/ etc. and take your pic. That would be ridiculously stupid.

[+dfx]

Well, if this were the case then after all the major landmarks have been claimed as "challenges" then what will the future hold? Go to these coordinates and find this tree/ rock/ wall/ billboard/ sign/ bush/ statue/ etc. and take your pic. That would be ridiculously stupid.

 

It wouldn't be stupid, but it wouldn't be geocaching. You wanna go geocaching? Put a container there.

[+kunarion]

The majority of the challenges I have seen (maybe all) do not require a GPSr at all. If you take the container out of the picture, there is no need to zero in on a 12' radius. WOW, if a website wanted to stick it to a greedy GPSr manufacturer, they could just heavily promote challenges. No, that's just crazy talk.

I got the official "Challenges" Android App today, and the first thing I thought about it is:

Challenges are perfect for Smartphones. A lack of GPS accuracy is probably no big deal.

 

And another thing about the App is, it's got no containers. You see no "Geocaching" at all, only Challenges, a separate game. I really prefer it that way, not co-mingled. You can find Challenges (okay, you can't find any, but in theory you could), and there's a nav display to get you there. Completing Challenges will do, you know, unexpected things to your Geocaching Stats, but that's one of the few ways it's connected to that "other game". Groundspeak could drop the old-fashioned "container" part of the hobby, and you'd never notice by looking at the App. But that's probably... not likely...

Edited August 24, 2011 by kunarion

[+Nature Kids]

It seems GC could make millions, selling PQ's, Get geocachers to record coords for all kinds of stuff, POi's of everything in a city. When you go to a city, or anywhere, another country, state, county...You could pick requirements for a PQ of your interest, download, to your GPSr & it would direct you to the locations/coords. Not just caches, or interesting locations...but everything else too! Imagine the Poi directories that come installed on your GPSr times a thousand...

[+The Fall Guy]

I will always prefer searching for tupperware in the woods over a "challenge".

[+EdrickV]

If virtuals didn't take over, then challenges haven't got a chance. Geocaches I think are better then virtuals, and virtuals are a lot better then challenges. (To me, challenges are no substitute/replacement for virtual caches. There's really no comparison between the two.)

[+GeoBlank]

The good thing about virtuals is the current ratio to to physical caches is very low. This is what keeps the sport great.

Virtuals at a cruise ship port in another country where there is some sort of historical statue of significants is awesome.

The risk of the current challenge implementation is that the ratio of challenges to physical caches could start to go the other direction.

 

If I want to log all sort of random things I will play with Foursquare on my phone. I want to have a good experience on the site and in the wild to go on a high tech treasure hunt.

 

So extending the rules, guidance, and schema of challenges (and then finding the right name for them) might not impact the current sport if we really look at them in context of when and why virtuals today are good and what the risk of them could have been.

[+caro y alf]

Seeing it as a business, it wouldn't be a smart move considering that they commercialize the containers and TB tags that would decline as well if there weren't containers to hold them between cachers.

 

They can, and probably will, do both. I see scenarios where a cache is not a possibility (inside museums, above a desert dune, under water, etc.), and challenges may work there. The pirate in me loves the thrill of the find and the expectation while I open a cache, even if I am the TNLN type. That's where the beach grotto and the trail side containers will continue to excel, because most of the community seems to like those. Even the cleverly hidden nano in plain sight to thousands of muggles is exciting in its own way, more than simply going to the place with my gps and snapping a photo standing there to check a challenge.

[+kunarion]

The pirate in me loves the thrill of the find

Yes. It can be like the difference between going to a museum to see an arrowhead, and discovering one.