Jump to content

Challenges should be Challenging


ATXTracker

Recommended Posts

One beef I have is I don't think taking a picture is challenging. I wish it weren't one of the two types. The picture could maybe be the proof, but it shouldn't be the whole objective.

 

After thinking about it, one of my dis-likes of the challenges I've seen so far is that many are not at all challenging. I propose that when they revise the Challenge Guidelines, they add the subjective rule that 'Challenges should be challenging.' To elaborate, a Challenge should have some challenging element beyond simply being in a location. Taking a picture in a location is not a challenge, it is simply proof that you were in the location.

 

Examples:

Hard to get to (roads are confusing, the terrain is hard)

Activity at the location is challenging (physically difficult, embarrassing, requiring stealth)

Something to learn at the location

Draw a picture of the location

Find something somehow hidden or disguised

 

This is controversial because it is entirely subjective. But if you're going to let the community decide, then the community would have to work this out.

Link to comment

The description is:

 

"Go somewhere, do something."

 

I think the problem with 'Take a Photo Challenges' is that you didn't really do something. Yes you took a photo, but I don't think that qualifies, unless something about taking the photo is actually challenging. If the photo is simply proof that you were there, then IMO that is more like:

 

"Go somewhere, and prove that you were there."

 

Most of the photo Challenges I've seen don't require any challenge except being there, and most are not challenging to get to.

Edited by ATXTracker
Link to comment

I agree. I am alright with the photo as proof of the act happening, but there needs to be some type of actual CHALLENGE. Or its not fun/ there is no point. While I'm not happy with the new changes, I am open to new Geocaching avenues. I have tried 3 of the challenges and none of them required me to do anything out of the ordinary. I am going to keep an open mind, but as it stands, I would rather do without. They need to be moderated and require the person to physically achieve something. Isn't that the point of Geocaching? Spending time outdoors and (re)connecting with the world outside? My favorite caches are the ones that require a physical effort (usually a hike or maybe a difficult puzzle) to get to. I guess what I'm saying is...I WANT TO BE CHALLENGED BY CHALLENGES! :)

Link to comment

I made a challenge called, "Florida Sunset Over The Gulf Of Mexico" where the seeker needs to take a picture of themselves and their GPS with the sunset and ocean behind them.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXB2C

 

Thoughts?

 

To me that at least minimally meets the requirement. 1) you have to be at a specific location (Englewood beach in your case). 2) I guess the challenge is to be there at the right time of day to see the sunset. The photo, in my opinion is just proof that you were at the beach for the sunset.

 

I would rather this be worded, "Enjoy the sunset at Englewood beach, and take a picture to prove you were there."

 

I appreciate the example, so please don't think I'm trying to be mean, but IMO this just barely meets the criteria and is not very challenging or creative. I bet the sunset is nice, so that's cool. Maybe you could add an additional twist like, during a rainstorm, or with a pink and orange sunset, or with the moon out as well. Something to make it more of a challenge rather than just simply driving by on any old day.

 

Thanks again for the example!

Link to comment

I made a challenge called, "Florida Sunset Over The Gulf Of Mexico" where the seeker needs to take a picture of themselves and their GPS with the sunset and ocean behind them.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXB2C

 

Thoughts?

 

To me that at least minimally meets the requirement. 1) you have to be at a specific location (Englewood beach in your case). 2) I guess the challenge is to be there at the right time of day to see the sunset. The photo, in my opinion is just proof that you were at the beach for the sunset.

 

I would rather this be worded, "Enjoy the sunset at Englewood beach, and take a picture to prove you were there."

 

I appreciate the example, so please don't think I'm trying to be mean, but IMO this just barely meets the criteria and is not very challenging or creative. I bet the sunset is nice, so that's cool. Maybe you could add an additional twist like, during a rainstorm, or with a pink and orange sunset, or with the moon out as well. Something to make it more of a challenge rather than just simply driving by on any old day.

 

Thanks again for the example!

 

Thanks for Tue feedback, I appreciate it! I may reword it. I suppose it is an easy challenge! But it's a tourist town and sunset is a great thing to do here. Usually large groups come out and applaud when the sun sets.

 

I just want to make sure the vistors get out and see it. The sky is amazing!

Link to comment

I made a challenge called, "Florida Sunset Over The Gulf Of Mexico" where the seeker needs to take a picture of themselves and their GPS with the sunset and ocean behind them.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXB2C

 

Thoughts?

 

To me that at least minimally meets the requirement. 1) you have to be at a specific location (Englewood beach in your case). 2) I guess the challenge is to be there at the right time of day to see the sunset. The photo, in my opinion is just proof that you were at the beach for the sunset.

 

I would rather this be worded, "Enjoy the sunset at Englewood beach, and take a picture to prove you were there."

 

I appreciate the example, so please don't think I'm trying to be mean, but IMO this just barely meets the criteria and is not very challenging or creative. I bet the sunset is nice, so that's cool. Maybe you could add an additional twist like, during a rainstorm, or with a pink and orange sunset, or with the moon out as well. Something to make it more of a challenge rather than just simply driving by on any old day.

 

Thanks again for the example!

 

Thanks for Tue feedback, I appreciate it! I may reword it. I suppose it is an easy challenge! But it's a tourist town and sunset is a great thing to do here. Usually large groups come out and applaud when the sun sets.

 

I just want to make sure the vistors get out and see it. The sky is amazing!

 

That's cool. How about, "Applaud the sunset with locals at Englewood beach?"

Link to comment

I propose that when they revise the Challenge Guidelines, they add the subjective rule that 'Challenges should be challenging.'

Wow.

 

What I would propose is that they added a terrain and difficulty rating to the challenge. Have it work like geocaches where the challenge creator give the ratings.

 

Agreed. The terrain and difficulty are needed for sure. Those are subjective also, but they are metrics, not guidelines. Metrics measure a quality, while guidelines define what is acceptable. Both are needed. This thread was just trying to speak to the guidelines for what a Challenge should be.

Edited by ATXTracker
Link to comment

I regret posting my challenge on the forums! It's getting votes from folks who didn't even do the chalenge! Booo!

Yep, I mentioned mine here and 25 people had down-voted it within the hour. I suspect that a lot of nay-sayers are spending a lot of time voting down everything they see listed. They can't stand for us to enjoy something they don't. :rolleyes:

 

Haters gonna hate.

 

:) I like my challenge. It fits with my nature driven geocaches.

Link to comment

I'm sorry people voted yours down. Especially without an explanation. I'm not a fan of the thumbs up/down voting system. I personally think that if you have to do up/down voting you should only allow up voting. Down voting does two things: 1) creates negative sentiment in what is suppose to be a amiable community. 2) encourages users to abandon Challenges and create new ones to zero-out their negative rating.

 

Happy Caching (and challenge-completing) to you!

Link to comment

I made a challenge called, "Florida Sunset Over The Gulf Of Mexico" where the seeker needs to take a picture of themselves and their GPS with the sunset and ocean behind them.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXB2C

 

Thoughts?

 

To me that at least minimally meets the requirement. 1) you have to be at a specific location (Englewood beach in your case). 2) I guess the challenge is to be there at the right time of day to see the sunset. The photo, in my opinion is just proof that you were at the beach for the sunset.

 

I would rather this be worded, "Enjoy the sunset at Englewood beach, and take a picture to prove you were there."

 

I appreciate the example, so please don't think I'm trying to be mean, but IMO this just barely meets the criteria and is not very challenging or creative. I bet the sunset is nice, so that's cool. Maybe you could add an additional twist like, during a rainstorm, or with a pink and orange sunset, or with the moon out as well. Something to make it more of a challenge rather than just simply driving by on any old day.

 

Thanks again for the example!

 

Thanks for Tue feedback, I appreciate it! I may reword it. I suppose it is an easy challenge! But it's a tourist town and sunset is a great thing to do here. Usually large groups come out and applaud when the sun sets.

 

I just want to make sure the vistors get out and see it. The sky is amazing!

 

That's cool. How about, "Applaud the sunset with locals at Englewood beach?"

 

I agree--adding a little more info about the beach, and how groups come out and applaud, would make the listing a little more interesting. Nobody has accepted it yet, so you still have time to edit! :)

Link to comment

I made a challenge called, "Florida Sunset Over The Gulf Of Mexico" where the seeker needs to take a picture of themselves and their GPS with the sunset and ocean behind them.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXB2C

 

Thoughts?

Your challenge is nice not great but I would do it if I was in the area. If it was a cache it would get a nice log but not a favorite point.

Link to comment

I'm sorry people voted yours down. Especially without an explanation. I'm not a fan of the thumbs up/down voting system. I personally think that if you have to do up/down voting you should only allow up voting. Down voting does two things: 1) creates negative sentiment in what is suppose to be a amiable community. 2) encourages users to abandon Challenges and create new ones to zero-out their negative rating.

 

Happy Caching (and challenge-completing) to you!

I like down voting IF it tells me what they didn't like. I can learn from that. Down votes and flags should therefore require a log explaining why they voted it down.

Link to comment

I made a challenge called, "Florida Sunset Over The Gulf Of Mexico" where the seeker needs to take a picture of themselves and their GPS with the sunset and ocean behind them.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXB2C

 

Thoughts?

Your challenge is nice not great but I would do it if I was in the area. If it was a cache it would get a nice log but not a favorite point.

 

Thanks for the feedback! Maybe once you saw the sunset you couldn't help but favor it! :)

Link to comment

I propose that when they revise the Challenge Guidelines, they add the subjective rule that 'Challenges should be challenging.'

Wow.

 

What I would propose is that they added a terrain and difficulty rating to the challenge. Have it work like geocaches where the challenge creator give the ratings.

 

Agreed. The terrain and difficulty are needed for sure. Those are subjective also, but they are metrics, not guidelines. Metrics measure a quality, while guidelines define what is acceptable. Both are needed. This thread was just trying to speak to the guidelines for what a Challenge should be.

But the guidelines already say what a challenge should be: "Go somewhere, do something". You're asking for a guideline that say this must be challenging. That is so totally subjective that it makes the old "wow" requirement for virtuals look sensible. That's why my response was "wow".

 

If you are only interested in challenges that you find challenging, that's the point of adding terrain and difficulty rating. The terrain will tell you how challenging it is to go somewhere, and the difficulty will tell how challenging the thing you have to do is. Then you can select the ones that are challenging to you. Yes, the ratings are subjective but they seem to work pretty well for geocaches. Since a cache owner can change the ratings if they see that people are having difficulty finding their cache (or that it appears to be easier than they thought it would be), I'd be willing if the ratings on challenges could be voted up or down by those completing the challenge, to ultimately reflect what the average finder thinks they should be.

Link to comment

I actually issued my first challenge today (I haven't completed any yet because none of the worldwide ones are good imo, and my area didn;t have any). My challenge is to go to a lake in the woods (Heart Lake) and take a pic of you taking a swim - it's a strenuous hike and the water is cold.

I think that is a worthy challenge

Link to comment

I just found a new world wide challenge, one that I think is kinda nice and a learning experience if completed properly...My link

 

It at least gets you out.. but still who does not have a pic on their PC this moment with out any flora? I mean it still is a C.P.D, if you wanted to "cheat" your way thru.

 

Well I heard via the feedback site (Really wish they could get all the sites under an umbrella!) that it's being reviewed internally, so soon we shall see the changes.. up the roller coaster, back down...now up we go into a triple loop!

Link to comment

I'm a little disheartened over the enormity of the flaws that challenges present... :mad: for example, the inability to prove completion of any given challenge; the inclusion of challenge-completions in your total finds; zero accountability in a self-scoring system & :mad: the lack of any solid means of quality control... :mad: My initial reaction is to just personally boycott the challenges by refusing to accept or complete any of them until the mess has been mopped up a bit. From another perspective, suppose that there are actually some challenges worthy of attaining- All it takes is a certain number of anonymous naysayers to strike it down and have it archived? :mad::mad:

 

How can the emphasis on quality and creativity in geocaching be promoted while simultaneously opening the floodgates for mediocrity to spill over into every avenue? :mad:

Link to comment

I propose that when they revise the Challenge Guidelines, they add the subjective rule that 'Challenges should be challenging.'

 

It depends of course on how someone defines "challenge". Personally, I think that the concept of old virtuals was not to offer challenges as the main target. So either the term challenge is not the best one, or challenges are not even close to what people asked for when they asked for the return of virtuals.

 

It is certainly more challenging to have to visit an interesting location and perform a handstand there than just go there and proof that you have been there, but the audience for both type of products is a different one. I am interested in certain types of virtual caches, but life is posing with me sufficient challenges.

 

I had some hope that the return of virtuals would allow for sharing locations with others where one cannot place a container or does not want to do so, but not to be challenged to perform handstands, run twenty times around a park, visit a train station exactly at 2:00 in the night etc

If people enjoy that sort of game, it's fine with me. The result then should however not be sold as return of virtuals.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
Link to comment

I think that the Challenge description should not name the place or give explicit directions about how to get there.

 

Give me a set of coordinates and a vague or obfuscated idea of what I am supposed to find when I get there. It's more challenging to try and figure it out than to be told "Go to JimmyJoBobs Pizza on Main Street and take a picture of the green thing on the sidewalk."

Link to comment

I propose that when they revise the Challenge Guidelines, they add the subjective rule that 'Challenges should be challenging.'

 

It depends of course on how someone defines "challenge". Personally, I think that the concept of old virtuals was not to offer challenges as the main target. So either the term challenge is not the best one, or challenges are not even close to what people asked for when they asked for the return of virtuals.

 

It is certainly more challenging to have to visit an interesting location and perform a handstand there than just go there and proof that you have been there, but the audience for both type of products is a different one. I am interested in certain types of virtual caches, but life is posing with me sufficient challenges.

 

I had some hope that the return of virtuals would allow for sharing locations with others where one cannot place a container or does not want to do so, but not to be challenged to perform handstands, run twenty times around a park, visit a train station exactly at 2:00 in the night etc

If people enjoy that sort of game, it's fine with me. The result then should however not be sold as return of virtuals.

 

Cezanne

I'm hoping for more thought in the future challenge types that Groundspeak has promised. I suppose they began with a catchall action type because people would want to create challenges instead of waiting till a challenge type fitting for their activity was created. Waymarking had this problem early on. Eventually there will be some other types of challenges and the silly actions will account for only a small percentage.

 

I have started a feedback request for a learn challenge type modeled on the EarthCache idea but without the Earth science restriction. I think some more types of challenges that direct the activity to something more appropriate to an area will improve challenges.

 

I think that the Challenge description should not name the place or give explicit directions about how to get there.

 

Give me a set of coordinates and a vague or obfuscated idea of what I am supposed to find when I get there. It's more challenging to try and figure it out than to be told "Go to JimmyJoBobs Pizza on Main Street and take a picture of the green thing on the sidewalk."

 

Jeremy actually hinted that this might be one of the future challenge types in the podcacher interview.

Link to comment

That's cool. How about, "Applaud the sunset with locals at Englewood beach?"

That's the one thing I hate about most photo challenges, an ACTION attached to them. There's already a category for that, not surprisingly called Action Challenges.

 

I think Challenges was a poor choice of words for this new activity. It should have been called Tasks or something similar. Now a lot of people are crying because they're not challenging. The idea was to do something at a location. That something didn't have to be difficult.

Link to comment

That's cool. How about, "Applaud the sunset with locals at Englewood beach?"

That's the one thing I hate about most photo challenges, an ACTION attached to them. There's already a category for that, not surprisingly called Action Challenges.

 

I think Challenges was a poor choice of words for this new activity. It should have been called Tasks or something similar. Now a lot of people are crying because they're not challenging. The idea was to do something at a location. That something didn't have to be difficult.

 

While I appreciate the suggestions I received, I disagreed with them ultimately. For me, it is about the sun setting, not doing some mundane action.

 

I added to my challenge write up, but there is nothing to be done except take a pic while the sun sets over the gulf. That's the treasure.

Edited by SeekerOfTheWay
Link to comment

Submitting the picture for the Landmarks Challenge was a desk based endeavor but where the picture was taken was not a desktop folly. The picture was taken near GCGE9T which has a Terrain Rating greater that 4 stars. So the same principle of D's & T's should be applied to the challenges also. Its not how the picture is submitted or what it shows but the aspect of the terrain should be utilized.

79294_600.jpg

79294_700.jpg

Link to comment
I like down voting IF it tells me what they didn't like. I can learn from that. Down votes and flags should therefore require a log explaining why they voted it down.

That would be good. Some people don't like tough challenges, some the easy ones, and so between the two of them, it gets the No votes. Never mind the spoil-sport "oh yah well then take THAT" votes (likely a larger percentage than you may hope). A "Down" vote would be best used like a "Needs Archived" (cache/challenge is no longer possible), rather than a protest that "I Don't Like Micros". I guess it's the nature of the Net to have vindictive judgemental people voting down everything that doesn't precisely suit them.

 

If I place a challenge like "wiggle your toes", there may be a valuable reason. Like if a friend's son has an operation where now he may be able to wiggle his toes for the first time. For you, maybe it's way too easy. For him, it's the challenge of his life.

Edited by kunarion
Link to comment

 

I think Challenges was a poor choice of words for this new activity. It should have been called Tasks or something similar. Now a lot of people are crying because they're not challenging. The idea was to do something at a location. That something didn't have to be difficult.

 

While I appreciate the suggestions I received, I disagreed with them ultimately. For me, it is about the sun setting, not doing some mundane action.

 

I added to my challenge write up, but there is nothing to be done except take a pic while the sun sets over the gulf. That's the treasure.

 

I also think that calling them challenges was a poor choice if the idea was to come close to the old virtuals. Challenge makes people think that the main idea is about asking people to do something that is not easy to do.

Activity or Geoactivity or something like that would have been a better choice and it also would have avoided the confusion with challenge caches.

 

Cezanne

Link to comment

A "Down" vote would be best used like a "Needs Archived" (cache/challenge is no longer possible), rather than a protest that "I Don't Like Micros". I guess it's the nature of the Net to have vindictive judgemental people voting down everything that doesn't precisely suit them.

 

There is the flag command for the "needs archived" function. Why not interpret the thumbs down exactly as to mean "does not suit me".

 

If I place a challenge like "wiggle your toes", there may be a valuable reason. Like if a friend's son has an operation where now he may be able to wiggle his toes for the first time. For you, maybe it's way too easy. For him, it's the challenge of his life.

 

Certainly. That also happens often with caches. I like Hemingway's the Old Man and the Sea while I do not like his other works I read. Many Hemingway fans do not like The Old Man and the Sea at all. I'd no issue to vote thumbs up on The Old Man and the Sea and thumbs down on his other works without meaning that this other works are bad or worse than the one I like.

 

For example,

it is not surprising that those who are looking for a replacement of the old virtuals will be disappointed by a challenge sending them to a location where there exists already a cache they have found and enjoyed.

Many of the challenges that show up either are intended to ask others to perform things someone regards as funny or they are more Waymarking like than like a virtual cache or which they pass everyday.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...