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Challenges - the good points so far.


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Moving on from the obvious debate about should these be included in stats etc. Here is an opportunity for those who want to contribute to the discussion without focusing on the negative.

 

Once silly season is over (legitimate armchair completing) then what do you think Challenges will bring to the hobby?

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Another domain name... When they get spun off like the original virtuals and locationless ones.

who cares there are no good points to them they are ridiculous and need to be put away just like they did virtuals except virtuals were actually good and need to be brought back in their original form

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Ok well here goes,I like:

 

:smile: You can rate, I like favourites for searching where to go in preference but has a strong impact.

:smile: If written well they bring back virtuals but then what I like about virtuals are that they were finite.

:smile: A true locationless action challenge is better than a souvenir as you select what you want (e.g. http://coord.info/CX246).

:grin: Challenges can be made fun and silly with only imagination.

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Moving on from the obvious debate about should these be included in stats etc. Here is an opportunity for those who want to contribute to the discussion without focusing on the negative.

 

Once silly season is over (legitimate armchair completing) then what do you think Challenges will bring to the hobby?

 

Geocaches take you to places you wouldn't have visited otherwise.

 

Challenges get you doing things you wouldn't have done otherwise.

 

If it weren't for Amersham Frog, would you have visited Amersham station and kissed a frog? Of course not.

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I'm up for doing new things. I tend to be very structured and routine. Geocaching earthcaches and virtual caches have helped me do things I normally wouldn't. For example, yesterday I walked to the middle of a suspension bridge over a gorge in Tallulah Gorge State Park to complete an earthcache. I NEVER would have done that otherwise. I'm terrified of heights!

 

Challenges will do the same for me. With a little prodding and an offer to take up a challenge, I push myself beyond what I think I can do.

 

Tallulah Gorge: A Product of Rock and Water Earthcache

Edited by SeekerOfTheWay
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Challenges will of course be more than likely be inundated with "Show a picture of you eating a burger outside McD's" / "Show a picture of you stood outside a railway station" / "Show a picture of you holding a Tesco receipt worth over £50" etc etc, ie the virtual equivalent of the "Burger Me" / "Sidetracked" / "Off Your Trolley" bilge!

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Ok well here goes,I like:

 

:smile: You can rate, I like favourites for searching where to go in preference but has a strong impact.

:smile: If written well they bring back virtuals but then what I like about virtuals are that they were finite.

:smile: A true locationless action challenge is better than a souvenir as you select what you want (e.g. http://coord.info/CX246).

:grin: Challenges can be made fun and silly with only imagination.

 

All the above +

No reviewer (sorry guys)

No more trying to find out who owns what bit of land .. If it has legal public access put a challenge there.

Peer review if you don't like it it gets a thumbs down if you don't think it is in the spirit of the 'game' flag it and of course the good ones gut lots of thumbs up

Challenges don't have Rules/ GAGB guidelines only common sense/peer review

It makes setters think about where they are taking us .. they have to sell it to us, you don't have to accept

Urban challenges don't have the same 'terrorist' problems... you only need a pic with the flower box, but would you bother to go if was only a flower box.. again self policing... again raising standards

As above but it would open up all the London parks again... no box no problem

We had church micros.... now we have CMs where you search in 30 ft of ivy covered walls and can't even see the church Why not church challenges where the church is the reason not the micro

The chance to take people to a great place without them destroying it to find the nano hidden in the ivy

People keep saying its the location that matters so why do we need a box and a logbook to prove we've been there just a simple ,sometimes fun, picture and if people claim it so what it's them they are cheating not us

We all complain about the standard of caches and the fact that if it meets guidelines it has to be published, so now we have the chance to 'review'... if a challenge gets enough thumbs down no one visits it simple.

On here people are saying its not geocaching.. well let's be honest at the moment geocaching isn't geocaching any more unless you like searching in another hedge for another film pot. Challenges have the potential to take us back to where the location mattered not the box.

No more soggy logs.. leaking boxes... slug filled carrier bags

 

OK GS made a mess of their launch with the kiss a frog but I think it was meant as a fun introduction (remember fun) But it is cachers who are placing the stupid challenges now and if they had read a bit first they would have realised their error instead of trying to be clever and creating locationless challenges.

Not having a go just using as an example.. Dr Solly's Amersham series is an example of challeges which will stand or fall by cachers thumbs up/thumbs down... if enough people like them then they will become a legend in their own lifetime if not I would hope that they would be archived by the setter.. again peer review

 

Their is potential there if WE use it and not just dismiss it because it is new.. don't complain about the 'stupid' challenges set good ones that return us to where the location mattered not the box

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fuzzybears, I hear what you say on all (most) of that. But I still don't understand why you want challenges to be listed on a geocache listing site instead of a challenge listing site?

 

Rgds, Andy

 

Because if we're honest how many of the new caches published recently have been 'Geocaches' as we used to know them.. Geocaching is being killed by over population of caches which meet review guidelines but are not worthy of the name Geocache. Challanges could be as much a smiley as an earthcache is but it is up to us, the cachers, to make them worthy. If they're not worth a smiley then we don't do them and give them a thumbs down.

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All the above +

No reviewer (sorry guys)

No more trying to find out who owns what bit of land .. If it has legal public access put a challenge there.

Peer review if you don't like it it gets a thumbs down if you don't think it is in the spirit of the 'game' flag it and of course the good ones gut lots of thumbs up

Challenges don't have Rules/ GAGB guidelines only common sense/peer review

It makes setters think about where they are taking us .. they have to sell it to us, you don't have to accept

Urban challenges don't have the same 'terrorist' problems... you only need a pic with the flower box, but would you bother to go if was only a flower box.. again self policing... again raising standards

As above but it would open up all the London parks again... no box no problem

We had church micros.... now we have CMs where you search in 30 ft of ivy covered walls and can't even see the church Why not church challenges where the church is the reason not the micro

The chance to take people to a great place without them destroying it to find the nano hidden in the ivy

People keep saying its the location that matters so why do we need a box and a logbook to prove we've been there just a simple ,sometimes fun, picture and if people claim it so what it's them they are cheating not us

We all complain about the standard of caches and the fact that if it meets guidelines it has to be published, so now we have the chance to 'review'... if a challenge gets enough thumbs down no one visits it simple.

On here people are saying its not geocaching.. well let's be honest at the moment geocaching isn't geocaching any more unless you like searching in another hedge for another film pot. Challenges have the potential to take us back to where the location mattered not the box.

No more soggy logs.. leaking boxes... slug filled carrier bags

 

OK GS made a mess of their launch with the kiss a frog but I think it was meant as a fun introduction (remember fun) But it is cachers who are placing the stupid challenges now and if they had read a bit first they would have realised their error instead of trying to be clever and creating locationless challenges.

Not having a go just using as an example.. Dr Solly's Amersham series is an example of challeges which will stand or fall by cachers thumbs up/thumbs down... if enough people like them then they will become a legend in their own lifetime if not I would hope that they would be archived by the setter.. again peer review

 

Their is potential there if WE use it and not just dismiss it because it is new.. don't complain about the 'stupid' challenges set good ones that return us to where the location mattered not the box

 

Thank goodness! Somebody else "gets it".

 

This is where I could do with a "Like" button.

 

And to Amberel, I don't really mind where they're listed as long as they're all conveniently listed on one site. Ideally, eventually, I'd like to be able to do one Search that would pull up all the nearby types of geocache, waymarks, challenges... and anything else that gets "invented" by Groundspeak. That way I get to see the whole box of chocolates and can choose which I like, which I might bite into (and possibly spit out) and which I'll ignore totally.

 

MrsB :)

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Thank goodness! Somebody else "gets it".

 

This is where I could do with a "Like" button.

 

And to Amberel, I don't really mind where they're listed as long as they're all conveniently listed on one site. Ideally, eventually, I'd like to be able to do one Search that would pull up all the nearby types of geocache, waymarks, challenges... and anything else that gets "invented" by Groundspeak. That way I get to see the whole box of chocolates and can choose which I like, which I might bite into (and possibly spit out) and which I'll ignore totally.

 

MrsB :)

 

Pretty much my view as well.

Caching will always exist as the game of find a box with a gps, hence the other examplecaching.com websites.

Geocaching will always keep Caching at it's core, but is expanding it's brandname to cover other "outdoor with a GPS" activities.

 

I don't want to have to consult a multitude of websites to plan my families fun day out, exploring the country with a GPS. I would much prefer they all be listed under one banner, with a method of filtering out the aspects of Geocaching that I have no interest in.

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I think a well-thought-out challenge (get a picture of you pushing the trolley through the wall on Platform 9 3/4) has a *whole* lot more going for it that 'here's a sodden box of rusty rubbish hidden somewhere you'd rather not have visited'. Once things have 'settled down' and you can see the quality amongst the silly ones, I think (hope) people will find location-linked Challenges a worthwhile addition to caching. Being able to use your imagination without having to jump through lots of GS hoops will attract creative setters as well as the disruptive ones :ph34r:

 

Other plus points: No bomb scares, you can set them in pay-to-enter locations (as far as I can see) and permission not required. I've a list of ideas of things to do and places to place them, but I'm not a Premium Member :(

 

Bad points: PMO setters (which makes them look like a revenue-raising 'ploy' to some degree), little-or-no quality control, inability to amend logs. Nothing that can't be fixed :)

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fuzzybears, I hear what you say on all (most) of that. But I still don't understand why you want challenges to be listed on a geocache listing site instead of a challenge listing site?

 

Rgds, Andy

 

Because if we're honest how many of the new caches published recently have been 'Geocaches' as we used to know them.. Geocaching is being killed by over population of caches which meet review guidelines but are not worthy of the name Geocache. Challanges could be as much a smiley as an earthcache is but it is up to us, the cachers, to make them worthy. If they're not worth a smiley then we don't do them and give them a thumbs down.

That doesn't answer the question at all. Your list gave 20 reasons why they were NOT geocaches.

 

Many people know that I'm a fervent and active proponent of quality caches, but even a micro at the base of a tree on a pleasant walk in the country is a lot closer to being a geocache than are any of these challenges. And in any case, if we agree that micros in ivy, or at the base of trees, represent a drop in caching standards from where they used to be, that is no reason to argue that we should move even further away from what represents a high quality cache.

 

Challenges are a completely different game - they belong on their own site.

 

Rgds, Andy

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It would seem to make sense to merge all three (geocaches, waymarks and challenges) into a single site with different sections for each. That way we could have a stats bar that showed geocaches found and hidden, waymarks found and set, challenges found and set. People who wanted to focus on physical geocaches could do so and ignore the others, people who wanted to focus exclusively on any other element could do so, and people who wanted to do a few of each could also do it.

 

Premium members could have pocket queries set up to download geocaches, waymarks and challenges that met their own criteria (possibly having different PQs for each, as long as the 5-a-day limit could be raised).

 

I'm starting to think that challenges could be an interesting variation on the theme and the biggest issue isn't so much that they exist but that Groundspeak royally screwed up their introduction with stupid tasks that were the challenge equivalent of a micro behind a fire hydrant surrounded by dog poo and smelling of dog pee. From there it's hardly surprising that so many challenges of a comparable quality sprung up - if the first few geocaches were micros behind posts I can see geocaching being a distant memory for a few geeks.

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Challenge caches will allow me to gain a cache find in loads of other counties. Ha ....I'll have stats to match my Geo friends who have spent time, effort and hard earned income attempting this. All I'll have to do is cuddle a dog, drink a beer, kiss a hog.

 

Challenges completely eleiminates the underground reputation to this hobby, it makes it more open and mainstream. We can all play now :D so when Hubby refuses to loosen his grip on the GPSr it won't matter 'cause I can find the Eiffel Tower and London Eye.

 

Challenges will take me to places that Geocaching never allowed. I can now book our DisneyLand holiday and cancel Mr. Reds walking holiday in the Peaks.

 

:rolleyes::)

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This is something I just don't get.

 

I have friends who don't like puzzles, I have friends who hate series, or certain types of caches (Off Your Trolley, Sidetracked, etc.) And what they do is ignore those, only do the ones they want. How is this any different? And before you say "there's no cache in a challenge cache", there's no cache in an earthcache, or an old virtual, yet I see those actively supported being listed on GC.com. I don't see people deleting their old virtual and locationless logs because those aren't 'proper' caches.

 

Surely variety is the spice of life. Challenges take nothing away and are the opportunity to open something new. If you don't like them, don't do them.

 

The only conclusion I can come to about the furore is that it's about numbers. It's that worry that somehow someone will armchair log, 'find' more than you and it mean 'something'. Now don't get me wrong, I am a numbers cacher, but really... number of finds means nothing more than a bit of banter down the pub. It gives things a competitive edge and motivates me to go out and do them. I'm proud of the finds I've got but if someone armchair logged more, I don't see how it takes away from my accomplishment. I'd be slightly annoyed to be pushed down the league table but that kinda happens now with people who cache in ways I don't feel that are in the spirit of the game. But I don't sit there and moan, I use that time to go out there and play the game my way and find more caches.

 

It's all about having a bit of fun, isn't it (and heaven knows, these days we all need a bit of fun in our lives). It's not like geocaching actually means anything more than a fun hobby / sport.

 

I agree that Geocaching Challenges was poorly launched, but that's happened now. The important thing is to set challenges you feel are worthy. If you think the "take a photo with X" isn't challenging enough... put one out there you feel is worthy. Get creative and let's see what sort of fun and mayhem (in a positive way) we can create.

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No more shelling our for cache containers/ammo cans. I'm cured and can now walk passed tupperware in the supermarket. :lol:

 

No more missing TBs and GCs

 

No more money setting caches coming from my pocket at all. :D

 

I'm thinking I now like Challenge Caches. Now ....where can I buy a frog? :laughing:

 

Debs

When you've acquired your frog, don't forget to go to Amersham station.

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No worrying about having a pen/pencil to sign the log.

 

No more purchasing trades for caches.

 

If a cache box gets muggled ....simples...turn it into a Challenge site.

 

A whole new Challenge Stats leader board. I bet someone will have fun with that and why not! :)

 

No maintenance issues.

 

I feel a revolution starting......lets grandfather caches with a container to find, this is much more convenient. :D:ph34r::D

 

Debs.

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No more shelling our for cache containers/ammo cans. I'm cured and can now walk passed tupperware in the supermarket. :lol:

 

No more missing TBs and GCs

 

No more money setting caches coming from my pocket at all. :D

 

I'm thinking I now like Challenge Caches. Now ....where can I buy a frog? :laughing:

 

Debs

When you've acquired your frog, don't forget to go to Amersham station.

 

I'm waiting for the Amersham station power trail drsolly. Has Amersham station FTF been claimed? Can I stop doing this silly walk yet? :lol:

 

D

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And before you say "there's no cache in a challenge cache", there's no cache in an earthcache, or an old virtual, yet I see those actively supported being listed on GC.com.
It may not surprise you to hear that I would much prefer not to see virtuals and earth"caches" listed on a geocaching site either. I have done a handful, but none of them added anything to my experience of visiting the location, to the extent that when I knew I was going within 5 feet of an earth"cache" last Sunday, I didn't even look at it, let alone log it. So at least I am consistent :lol: .

 

And personally I would not refer to them as "challenge caches"; even Groundspeak don't use that term :lol: .

 

On the plus side, the "challenges" are now becoming slightly less inane. There is no-one but Groundspeak to blame for the absurdity of the initial challenges, but they now do at least seem to be working on the principle of "do as I say, not as I do" when it comes to setting them. But I have yet to see even one that I would regard as "challenging". Unless they improve a LOT from what they are now it seems highly unlikely I will ever be tempted to do one.

 

So I am marginally less "anti" than when they first came out, though I still think it would be far more sensible for them to be on a separate "challenge" site, that way each can develop as best suits the genre rather than be forced together in a very strange partnership.

 

Rgds, Andy

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I don't really mind where they're listed as long as they're all conveniently listed on one site. Ideally, eventually, I'd like to be able to do one Search that would pull up all the nearby types of geocache, waymarks, challenges... and anything else that gets "invented" by Groundspeak. That way I get to see the whole box of chocolates and can choose which I like, which I might bite into (and possibly spit out) and which I'll ignore totally.

 

MrsB :)

 

Yes, I would very much like them to stay on the same site, be searchable on the same phone app, and to be able to search for any (including the Waymarks, now I am starting to get a better idea of what they are.)

 

It is easy enough to add things to your ignore list, it is just a click away. I doubt I will ever learn to scuba dive or get climbing equipment to do the cliff face caches, and I have a file of puzzle print-offs we never seem to have time to look at. My heart always sinks when I see algebra on a cache page, but I don't let it bother me. I save those for the maths geeks in the family. We will probably not hide many caches either.

 

Perhaps these challenges will bring families together in unexpected ways. Where there's just one or two geocachers, they can have their photos taken by the ones who don't like hiking or getting mud under their nails! We had a very laid back family walk today with a cache and instead of me trying to get pics of the children while they whined and hid and ran away, I was asking them to take photos of us adults (for a challenge). It was a lot of fun, and the usual teenager moans and groans were absent because they were too busy laughing at us. :)

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I thought I would not like this challenge thing but after reading some of the wise threads above I think this could be a good thing but it really depends on the quality of challenges really. but again its about choice. As we choose the type and quality of the caches we find so then we can choose the type and quality of the challenges. It has the opportunity to open or integrate many other aspects of peoples other interests into it, and I’m thinking integrating a challenge around a game of golf! Collecting the cords for all 18 flags for instance. Then Lilian would have me out caching 7 days a week.

 

Regards

 

Tony

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And before you say "there's no cache in a challenge cache", there's no cache in an earthcache, or an old virtual, yet I see those actively supported being listed on GC.com.
It may not surprise you to hear that I would much prefer not to see virtuals and earth"caches" listed on a geocaching site either. I have done a handful, but none of them added anything to my experience of visiting the location, to the extent that when I knew I was going within 5 feet of an earth"cache" last Sunday, I didn't even look at it, let alone log it. So at least I am consistent :lol: .

 

Now where is the Like button when you need it.

 

Some of the Earthcaches are informative but I've yet to find one worth going through the logging rigmarole for.

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Another domain name... When they get spun off like the original virtuals and locationless ones.

who cares there are no good points to them they are ridiculous and need to be put away just like they did virtuals except virtuals were actually good and need to be brought back in their original form

+1

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Bad points: PMO setters (which makes them look like a revenue-raising 'ploy' to some degree

I know, isn't it terrible how marketing people create products that you want and then reveal that you have to pay to get them? Evil, evil capitalists. :D

 

On a more practical note: Premium Members are at least fairly unlikely to be sock puppets. Maybe one or two people with a major anti-Groundspeak agenda will fork out $10 to upgrade a sock for a couple of "shots" at the site, but it's going to be limited in number by the need to pay.

 

One of my favourite laws of economics is: if something's free, it will be abused. The Internet version is: if something with even the most remotely marginal economic value is made available for free anonymous access, bots will move in within hours.

Edited by sTeamTraen
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And before you say "there's no cache in a challenge cache", there's no cache in an earthcache, or an old virtual, yet I see those actively supported being listed on GC.com.
It may not surprise you to hear that I would much prefer not to see virtuals and earth"caches" listed on a geocaching site either. I have done a handful, but none of them added anything to my experience of visiting the location, to the extent that when I knew I was going within 5 feet of an earth"cache" last Sunday, I didn't even look at it, let alone log it. So at least I am consistent :lol: .

 

Now where is the Like button when you need it.

 

Some of the Earthcaches are informative but I've yet to find one worth going through the logging rigmarole for.

+1 Sometimes it's like being back at school again: "geo"s they are, caches they ain't ;)

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I actually thing Challenges are a fine idea. Gets people out doing things they wouldn't have otherwise done.

 

But they are a game in their own right and have nothing in common with Geocaching, so counting them as a 'find' is just offensive IMO.

 

In fact challenges are diluted by being associated so closely with geocaching, just as geocaching is diluted by being associated with challenges.

Edited by Mark+Karen
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Good to see some positive posts at last rather than the usual 'why change anything' culprits. I too am prepared to give it a chance.

 

One point I don't think that has been made is that, in my view, the old glory days of having a goody box with trades have gone - like it or not. There used to be a point in having a container with goodies as it made it fun getting the occasional swap and it kept cacher's kids happy. Now with the increased popularity it's impossible to find trades of any worth, they are all taken with either no trade left or just a pebble or used bus ticket left in exchange. The log book has probably also had its day as its often wet, full or falling to pieces. I personally put hardly anything there and rely on the cache page log.

 

A good challenge is just as likely to get me out as a good cache - it's a quality trip out I'm after not a box or a number count.

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A good challenge is just as likely to get me out as a good cache - it's a quality trip out I'm after not a box or a number count.

 

Yes it should have been set up so only quality challenges were set. B)

 

We've all seen what happens when the masses are given an open canvas. :ph34r:

 

Why too, if you view someone's profile, can you not see what challenge they have fulfilled? :huh:

 

Once you've allowed a down-trend its difficult to regain level standards. :(

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