Challenges Counting as Finds

[+JL_HSTRE]

Before Challenges were released, I thought it was good they would count toward Total Finds.

 

Having seen what they actually are now that they are out, I really would like them to not count toward Finds. I'd feel much better about completing some of the silly ones that way.

 

Also, getting a "smiley" for kissing a frog but not for finding a benchmark seems unfair.

 

Jeremy has made it clear Challenges are here to stay (too much interest and investment). IMO the best course of action is not to just complain how they suck, but to figure out two things:

 

1) How to make them better.

 

2) How to make them not annoy the hell out of people who don't like them.

 

Not counting as Finds seems to me the best way to deal with #2. It also decreases the incentive to post lame/bogus Challenges, thus helping with #1.

[+De Wijngemachtigde]

....

There is another place where the TOTAL includes the challenges but I forgot where that was.

...

 

I think the stat bar.

[+jaylous1]

Groundspeak! YOU ARE RUINUNG THE GAME BY COUNTING CHALLENEGES AS A FIND.

BOOOOOOO! HISSSSSSSS!

[+jaylous1]

i AGREE 100% WITH JOSHISM

[Mushtang]

Groundspeak! YOU ARE RUINUNG THE GAME BY COUNTING CHALLENEGES AS A FIND.

BOOOOOOO! HISSSSSSSS!

 

How?? Help me to understand this concept please. If I decide that I love Challenges and I do 2000 of them (either legit or bogus), and my find count increases by 2000, I don't see how that changes the game you play - at all.

 

How does this "ruin the game" for anyone???

[+northernpenguin]

Personally, I don't care about the numbers.

 

I would like the Challenges logged to be separate from Geocaching finds, for only one reason: So those that don't like Challenges would go away and let the rest of us enjoy them in peace.

[+t4e]

 

Also, getting a "smiley" for kissing a frog but not for finding a benchmark seems unfair.

 

 

benchmarks are a US thing only, until they are recognized all around the world it will be unfair to count them as finds

 

so meanwhile find a frog and kiss it while standing on a benchmark

[+Frankie & Johnny]

Sometimes the BEST move you make is the move you don't make ! Combining challenges with geocache finds was a dumb move. If people want to do challenges, good for them - I hope they have lots of fun. We want no part of them and we just want to find geocaches. Just keep them TOTALLY separate (never adding the 2 totals to-gether because they are so different) and all is well !!!

[+jaylous1]

I agree. They are more compatible with Waymarking.com

Combine those two and leave them out of geocaching

[+sbell111]

I'm happy enough for the frog-kissers to have their own game, but really don't like the challenge count being included in 'total finds'. It's as ridiculous as including trackable finds in there. More ridiculous in fact, seeing as you usually have to leave your sofa to bag a trackable.

Two thoughts:

1. Trackable finds do not increment your find count.
   
2. If you aren't interested in 'frog kissing', then you won't log those challenges and they won't increment your count. Therefore, what's your beef?
   

Kissing a frog has nothing to do with geocaching. Keep challenges separate.

I think that many people who are keying in on the 'kiss a frog' challenge are missing that it is a worldwide challenge. Worldwide challenges are not meant to be analogous to virtual caches. They are locationless cache analogues. If you did not enjoy LC caches, you should probably not bother with worldwide challenges.

[+sbell111]

I agree. They are more compatible with Waymarking.com

Combine those two and leave them out of geocaching

That's amusing since the very reason that challenges exist is because people were unhappy that virts, webcams and LCs were moved to Waymarking.

[+northernpenguin]

I agree. They are more compatible with Waymarking.com

Combine those two and leave them out of geocaching

That's amusing since the very reason that challenges exist is because people were unhappy that virts, webcams and LCs were moved to Waymarking.

 

Yup. In fact, the Photo Challenges is a (fun) category on Waymarking that came back.

[+terrkan78]

There's one group of people that play this game, and they LOVE having a large find count. They LOVE that other people see their find count. They LOVE to pretend the find count actually means something. They're very concerned about other people's find count too. They want to make sure that everyone else has an "honest" find count, because it would be a shame if too many people's find count passed their own. These people use their find count to compare themselves with other cachers. Ironically these are the same people that are most vocal in the forums shouting "The numbers don't matter" and referring to people that enjoy finding LPCs as "numbers whores". These people claim that they don't care about the numbers, but in reality they are the ones that care the most.

 

Those people are the ones that are complaining about the Challenges adding to the find count.

 

There is another group of people that don't care about other people's find count. They like their own, and they know what their own find count means and doesn't mean, but they don't use find counts to compare themselves with others. These are the people that don't care what does and doesn't count towards someone else's find count, because it doesn't matter. These are the people that realize there's no cheating possible in this game because there isn't a meaningful score kept. These people probably enjoy geocaching more than those that care about the numbers.

 

And there is another group of people who don't care about the find counts of others, or even their own. They cache for the pure joy of discovery, but think the numbers hounds are screwing up the game.

 

Some in this group would rather that challenge not be in the find count, but aren't going to scream bloody murder over the subject.

 

+1 to all of the above.

 

My gut reaction yesterday to challenges was, "Dang, this shouldn't be in people's find counts - it dilutes the meaning of the find count." But I wonder if maybe that's precisely the point of it being in the find count? If the find count becomes meaningless, it'll have an impact on the way a lot of people view the game. Myself included. If I'm no longer trying to get my find count over a certain number, if I'm no longer comparing my "score" to someone else's, then I'll probably quit going for those two park & grabs on my way to the hiking cache. I'll just get the caches I really want to get - caching just for the joy of geocaching. It has interesting implications.

[+sbell111]

I agree. They are more compatible with Waymarking.com

Combine those two and leave them out of geocaching

That's amusing since the very reason that challenges exist is because people were unhappy that virts, webcams and LCs were moved to Waymarking.

 

Yup. In fact, the Photo Challenges is a (fun) category on Waymarking that came back.

Happily, waymarkers can still play that game. Similarly, caches are listed on other sites. That doesn't mean that they can't be listed over here, also.

[+sbell111]

My gut reaction yesterday to challenges was, "Dang, this shouldn't be in people's find counts - it dilutes the meaning of the find count." But I wonder if maybe that's precisely the point of it being in the find count? If the find count becomes meaningless, it'll have an impact on the way a lot of people view the game. Myself included. If I'm no longer trying to get my find count over a certain number, if I'm no longer comparing my "score" to someone else's, then I'll probably quit going for those two park & grabs on my way to the hiking cache. I'll just get the caches I really want to get - caching just for the joy of geocaching. It has interesting implications.

In order for something like this to render find counts meaningless, they must have been meaningful. That has never been the case with find counts.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I am not wishing to compare myself to anyone else. I just do not want to have litter collecting mixed up with geocaching. I am not taking part in CITOs either and would wish that participation in events does not count towards my find count while still being able to note an attended.

 

This data is readily available:

 

Available yes, also in my memory - I do not need a website for that purpose. I do not like however what the website displays. I am mathematician and correct numbers are important for me whereever I encounter them. When someone encounters one of my logs on a cache page, the overall find count is displayed and I do not want to have a wrong number there.

 

Maybe an idea would be to create a second account just for challenges.

Apparently some cachers are trying to experiment with challenges without getting their own account dirty.

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=f9d71027-d26b-4740-afa9-01858e21d2d7

 

Cezanne

 

And we can see how that worked out..

 

Member Since:

Thursday, August 18, 2011

Last Visit:

Friday, August 19, 2011

Status:

Locked Member

 

Actually, creating a separate account for challenges (but not for the purpose of arm chair completions) might not be a bad idea if you want to completely separate your stats. You'll still need a PM account to create challenges but a basic membership account could be used just for accepting and completing challenges.

[+sillygirl & jrr]

Before Challenges were released, I thought it was good they would count toward Total Finds.

 

Having seen what they actually are now that they are out, I really would like them to not count toward Finds. I'd feel much better about completing some of the silly ones that way.

 

Also, getting a "smiley" for kissing a frog but not for finding a benchmark seems unfair.

 

Jeremy has made it clear Challenges are here to stay (too much interest and investment). IMO the best course of action is not to just complain how they suck, but to figure out two things:

 

1) How to make them better.

 

2) How to make them not annoy the hell out of people who don't like them.

 

Not counting as Finds seems to me the best way to deal with #2. It also decreases the incentive to post lame/bogus Challenges, thus helping with #1.

+1

 

As for how to make them better

1. Make it easy to find your note/picture for challenges you completed. It seem the pictures for completed challenges don't even show up in our "gallery."

2. Let us see which challenges other users have completed, now you can see a number but it's not a link the way caches are.

3. Some sort of notification/watch system. It would be nice to know when someone completed or voted on a challenge you published, or commented on your log. (As a side note why can the "publisher" of a challenge delete that note? I realize we don't "own" the challenge, but I like to see who submitted it.)

 

jrr

PS: If there are related topics in the feedback forum, I'll be happy to vote for them, but I can't stand looking for stuff over there...so I need a link.

[+Thrak]

I don't care about other people's numbers at all. However, I do care about MY numbers. My numbers are for ME and not for anybody else but I certainly don't want to puff them using challenges. I like to know the actual number of caches I've found. I'm glad that I discovered challenges add to the total find count before I checked them out for myself. I have no desire to add bogus "finds" to my numbers. Like I said, my numbers are just for me (ok for my wife as well ) and I want them to reflect reality.

[+mamoreb]

Yes, please count challenges and caches separately!

 

If challenges clutter my number of finds, I won't do any. If they are counted separately, I might do the most interesting ones...

[+Tryllast]

I have to agree with the overall opinion here, it just makes a joke out of what I love about geocaching. I have no issue with people doing things like these challenges if its what they really want to do, but give them their own platform to accomplish them on. This unfortunately has left a sour taste in my mouth and in my personal opinion a real poor decision making process that went on in the high up offices...

[+northernpenguin]

I agree. They are more compatible with Waymarking.com

Combine those two and leave them out of geocaching

That's amusing since the very reason that challenges exist is because people were unhappy that virts, webcams and LCs were moved to Waymarking.

 

Yup. In fact, the Photo Challenges is a (fun) category on Waymarking that came back.

Happily, waymarkers can still play that game. Similarly, caches are listed on other sites. That doesn't mean that they can't be listed over here, also.

 

Sure thing. I'm actually HAPPY they are over here as Challenges, as I can now look them up on my iPhone in the field where I could NOT do that with Waymarking

[cezanne]

 

Actually, creating a separate account for challenges (but not for the purpose of arm chair completions) might not be a bad idea if you want to completely separate your stats. You'll still need a PM account to create challenges but a basic membership account could be used just for accepting and completing challenges.

 

Of course I only had non armchair ones in mind.

There are a few challenges that are not that bad, but unless they do not change the way they are counted, I do not want to use my normal account.

 

I do not know however whether Groundspeak feels it acceptable that one opens up a second account just for doing challenges.

 

Cezanne

[sdarken]

I stopped caring about my find count and my friend's find counts some time ago. Things changed quite a lot when I got to that point. Now I do geocaches that seem interesting or are convenient at that particular moment. Geocaching challenges have the potential to provide additional enjoyable activities in my life. G.S is going to need to be some tweaks to ensure they don't get completely out of hand (and continue to produce worthwhile activities) but I'm willing to wait and see how things play out.

 

Lots of people here are way too serious about the whole thing.

 

More specifically on topic, one of the major reasons Waymarking never took off was that the Waymarking activities didn't contribute to people's find counts. It's pretty understandable why G.S made the decision to include them. I'm glad they did so that challenges would actually get some adoption and we can at least give them a chance to see where this takes us.

[MisterEFQ]

I feel the opposite of the people who feel that challanges will cheapen find counts. It actually makes people who find quality caches look better. Its like driving a porche on a freeway of full of Kias.

[+anniebananie]

How do they count Challenge finds in the cache count, but Challenge caches placed are not listed in caches owned.

 

At least be consistent and count finds seperate from physical cache finds.

 

Anniebananie

Edited August 19, 2011 by anniebananie

[+Cache Raiders]

I deleted the only challenge we did after seeing that it added to my count. I like that the count on the website actually matches the count on my GPSr. Maybe if these counted differently, like say Trackables, then everyone would be happy. Maybe then have new souvenirs associated with challenges will make it better?

 

Speaking of souvenirs, why not create some for moving/ discovering trackables?

[+ATXTracker]

The more I think about it, the more I think my dislike for the counting of challenges has to do with the loose rules around the challenges. If challenges made up 1%, and are truly challenging, then I think they are just like any other minor cache type and should count. As they are now, it seems like there will be so many crummy 'take a picture here' challenges that they overwhelm more traditional container caches.

 

Ironically, it is not very challenging, by the traditional definition of the word, to take a picture. They should maybe just be called 'Doings'.

[+JL_HSTRE]

Starting up a thread for this issue specifically. How should they be counted?

 

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/2170499-don-t-make-completions-the-same-as-finds-

 

Now the 4th most requested item on the Feedback Forums, trailing only:

-Bringing back the exact date on logs

-being able to mark a Mystery cache as solved but not found

-Bring Back Virtuals

 

How ironic will it be when 500 more people vote for this and "Challenges shouldn't count as Finds" has more votes than "Bring Back Virtuals"?

[+Doctroid]

This is one place that comes to mind. Your total here includes your 4 challenges. Yes, I know you can hover over it to get details.

 

Huh. I didn't.

 

How very special.

 

How come it doesn't show how many benchmark finds you have? Oh, right, because TPTB would like everyone to forget the site's benchmark features exist.

 

 

[+Doctroid]

Also, getting a "smiley" for kissing a frog but not for finding a benchmark seems unfair.

 

 

benchmarks are a US thing only, until they are recognized all around the world it will be unfair to count them as finds

 

What? That's like saying until there are as many geocaches per square mile in Uzbekistan as there are in Seattle, it will be unfair to count geocaches as finds.

 

 

[+JL_HSTRE]

Feedback topic for "Challenges should not count as Finds" has been set to "Status = Under Review".

[+edscott]

Before Challenges were released, I thought it was good they would count toward Total Finds.

 

Having seen what they actually are now that they are out, I really would like them to not count toward Finds. I'd feel much better about completing some of the silly ones that way.

 

Also, getting a "smiley" for kissing a frog but not for finding a benchmark seems unfair.

 

Jeremy has made it clear Challenges are here to stay (too much interest and investment). IMO the best course of action is not to just complain how they suck, but to figure out two things:

 

1) How to make them better.

 

2) How to make them not annoy the hell out of people who don't like them.

 

Not counting as Finds seems to me the best way to deal with #2. It also decreases the incentive to post lame/bogus Challenges, thus helping with #1.

 

Better than the frog one is the one for sitting on a toilet (misspelled on the page) in Hazleton PA. Great Middle School stuff, but has no place in Geocaching

[+dfx]

Feedback topic for "Challenges should not count as Finds" has been set to "Status = Under Review".

 

That should be interesting. Let's say they give in and take them out of the find count. You know what's gonna happen? "Bring back virtuals!"

[+ChileHead]

If challenges didn't count as finds, then we would have seen about 20 challenge submissions, and perhaps a single thread discussing it. Waymarking doesn't get a lot of attention because it doesn't count in people's stats. There is a balance somewhere ...

[+SSO JOAT]

Ironically, it is not very challenging, by the traditional definition of the word, to take a picture.

 

This is funny stuff, and yet very sad. Ironically, it's not very challenging to open a Hide-A-Key and scratch your initials on a damp strip of paper at Wal-Mart. Yet ya'll readily count that number as a "find".

 

Traditional Geocaching... go to published coordinates, open box, sign log, go home and spend 3 seconds entering "TFTC" on the cache page.

 

Action Challenge Caching... go to published coordinates, perform a specfic task and take a picture, go home, download/crop/resize photo, and enter a log describing what task you performed at the location and upload your photo.

 

Photo Challenge Caching... go to published coordinates, take a specific picture of something at the location, go home, download/crop/resize photo, enter log describing your experience and upload your photo.

 

Maybe the challenge-haters dislike the challenges because they involve more work to complete than a traditional geocache? Seems the only logical conclusion as they are otherwise the same activity of "location".

 

Seems to me that the only difference between a challenge cache and a traditional cache is that the cacher doesn't have to mess around with your stinking wet logsheet and the CO doesn't have to deal with inconsiderate cachers trashing their hide.

 

As for all the "number hunters" complaining about challenges "ruining" their stats... well, since they just started counting challenge stats, are we not all starting from zero at the same time? Perhaps if you get off your computer for a few minutes, go outside and hunt down these virtual caches, your silly numbers would grow just like the rest of the cachers who are/will embrace these challenge caches as the "better mousetrap" over that silly tupperware under the bush which doesn't even require you to look up at the scenery while you quickly scribble the log and head on to the next stupid box.

 

Here's how to keep the "numbers" right... add a new flippin' column to your self-promoting stat sheet, knucklehead. Stop being such stagnant "sticks in the mud". Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

 

The more I think about it, the more I feel that Challenge caches should count DOUBLE what a traditional cache does.

 

Challenges refocus us on locations rather than meaningless micro containers every 528 feet. I welcome this concept with open arms.

[+edscott]

Notice that the extra "work" described above is behind a desk with a computer, not actively participating in anything. Caching was not supposed to be a video game, but that's where it is headed.

[+briansnat]

The more I think about it, the more I think my dislike for the counting of challenges has to do with the loose rules around the challenges. If challenges made up 1%, and are truly challenging, then I think they are just like any other minor cache type and should count. As they are now, it seems like there will be so many crummy 'take a picture here' challenges that they overwhelm more traditional container caches.

 

Ironically, it is not very challenging, by the traditional definition of the word, to take a picture. They should maybe just be called 'Doings'.

 

Which is similar to virtuals, but they count and nobody seems to have a problem with that.

[+Ecylram]

Ironically, it is not very challenging, by the traditional definition of the word, to take a picture.

...

Traditional Geocaching... go to published coordinates, open box, sign log, go home and spend 3 seconds entering "TFTC" on the cache page.

 

Action Challenge Caching... go to published coordinates, perform a specfic task and take a picture, go home, download/crop/resize photo, and enter a log describing what task you performed at the location and upload your photo.

 

Photo Challenge Caching... go to published coordinates, take a specific picture of something at the location, go home, download/crop/resize photo, enter log describing your experience and upload your photo.

....

As I understand the arugments:

• Virtuals should count, even those without a verification process.
• Webcams should count.
• LPC's should count.
• 1/1 traditionals should count.
• A six-mile hike shouldn't count because it's called a challenge.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Ecylram

[+nikcap]

Starting up a thread for this issue specifically. How should they be counted?

 

http://feedback.geoc...-same-as-finds-

 

Now the 4th most requested item on the Feedback Forums, trailing only:

-Bringing back the exact date on logs

-being able to mark a Mystery cache as solved but not found

-Bring Back Virtuals

 

How ironic will it be when 500 more people vote for this and "Challenges shouldn't count as Finds" has more votes than "Bring Back Virtuals"?

 

Oddly enough "Don't Bring Back Virtuals" is on the same page.

 

There is also a feedback post (between Don't Bring Back Virtuals" and "Bring Back Virtuals") to create a check box "I dont want to play challenges" to my personal profiles" I think this is probable the best solution.

 

I'm completely indifferent about whether or not Challenges count as finds. As long as Virtuals, EarthCaches, Events and Grandfathered Locationless caches count as finds, the Total find count number is a completely bogus stat. Not to mention "group finds", how the heck does signing the log of a cache that was found by another person in a group or four or five count as a "find" Seriously, you we're just along for the ride on that one. Well, maybe I'm not completely indifferent, if all of those count as finds, I see no reason way Challenges should not count as finds.

 

What I would love to see is the find count of players completely removed from the cache page logs. If you want to know how many finds a player has, you can browse to their profile.

There you'll get a break down of exactly what the players skills are.

[+nikcap]

Notice that the extra "work" described above is behind a desk with a computer, not actively participating in anything. Caching was not supposed to be a video game, but that's where it is headed.

 

Those Challenges are being weeded out of the system. The community is policing itself. So I don't think this is really a concern.

 

It's taking time, but the bogus Challenges are being removed. Now, if we can only do that with the bogus Virtuals and physical caches that are out there now, instead of leaving them there as "Freebies" for cachers to log.

[+cx1]

 

Which is similar to virtuals, but they count and nobody seems to have a problem with that.

 

All sorts of people have had problems for years with virtual caches 'counting'. This uproar over Challenges adding to a find count is just more of the same. When you get down to the core there is little difference.

 

Example:

Virtual cache - Go to X location, view the interesting 'something' and either e-mail the CO answers to questions or post a photo of your visit to the location.

 

Photo challenge - Go to X location and post a photo of your visit to the location.

 

Really not much difference on what the 'finder' needs to do to claim a 'find'. And people have been complaining about the virtual cache 'counting' due to no 'container' for years and years.

 

Personally what I feel has gotten most some of the new complainers in a twist is not actually that they count as finds but because of the 'ALR' type component to many of them. They just don't want to admit it.

 

Right now many of the challenges are not very good.

Some are actually quite good replacements for virtual caches though. A little tweaking and they could be almost perfect replacements.

I would rather have more energy spent on trying to improve the quality of them before changing that they 'count'. Give the rating system a chance to correct some of the problems and then see where we are at. It could be they need to be more restrictive on placing them as in bump the 24-hour restriction to 7 days.

[+SSO JOAT]

Example:

Virtual cache - Go to X location, view the interesting 'something' and either e-mail the CO answers to questions or post a photo of your visit to the location.

 

Photo challenge - Go to X location and post a photo of your visit to the location.

 

Really not much difference on what the 'finder' needs to do to claim a 'find'.

 

You forgot the "gold standard"...

Traditional cache - Go to X location and post "TFTC" to claim a 'find'.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

I don't care if they do count or don't count. Get rid of the numbers altogether for all I care. It does nothing for me. I enjoy getting out, seeing stuff, learning, doing things. So, whatever.

 

Why does it matter to know if I've found 500 caches or 5000 caches? It doesn't matter AT ALL. I enjoyed myself and that's all that counts.

 

I agree with the poster that observed the "numbers don't matter" crowd is very vocal about challenges jot being included in find count. How hypocritical.

 

I've looked at many of the profiles in this thread and all of them had either virtual, earthcaches, web cam, or an event logged as a find.

 

That's also contradictory.

Edited August 21, 2011 by SeekerOfTheWay

[Tahosa and Sons]

* excludes benchmarks on the bottom of your profile should also have * excludes challenges

These so called challenges lack even the merits of a lame virtual and will never hold a candle up to a quality virtual.

I really wonder what the Lily Pad was thinking if they were even thinking. And we thought waymarks were different, these new things are totally defunct.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

* excludes benchmarks on the bottom of your profile should also have * excludes challenges

These so called challenges lack even the merits of a lame virtual and will never hold a candle up to a quality virtual.

I really wonder what the Lily Pad was thinking if they were even thinking. And we thought waymarks were different, these new things are totally defunct.

 

How are lame challenges any different than lame caches? You can't tell me you have never logged an uncreative cache, a lamp post hide.

 

Why are challenges different than the virtuals and events you logged AS GEOCACHES?

 

Why not exclude those too?

[cezanne]

 

Why does it matter to know if I've found 500 caches or 5000 caches? It doesn't matter AT ALL.

 

If someone fails at one of my caches or asks me which caches are recommendable, the caches he has found (not only the numbers, but also which ones) does have an influence on how I react.

 

 

I've looked at many of the profiles in this thread and all of them had either virtual, earthcaches, web cam, or an event logged as a find.

 

That's also contradictory.

 

No, it is not for me. For virtuals and Earthcaches there is a quality control.

They will never pop up in huge numbers and out of a moment of boredom.

For hiding a lame lamp post people need at least leave their house. For setting up challenges and for completed challenges this

is not required and that creates a problem.

 

Cezanne

[knowschad]

I can't currently get onto the feedback site to vote or comment, so I guess this is the best I can do right now. Let me propose a possible compromise:

 

Some here have stated that they believe (or at least hope) that soon the cream will float to the top, and people will tire of creating stupid challenges. Perhaps challenge completions should not be added to the count until that time (exactly when "that time" would be would, of course, be a very subjective call). At such time that the challenges really are challenging, keep the count visible, but separate from the total, like benchmarks.

[+dfx]

* excludes benchmarks on the bottom of your profile should also have * excludes challenges

These so called challenges lack even the merits of a lame virtual and will never hold a candle up to a quality virtual.

I really wonder what the Lily Pad was thinking if they were even thinking. And we thought waymarks were different, these new things are totally defunct.

They were thinking: virtuals count towards your find count. Challenges are the replacement for virtuals. So, challenges need to count towards your find count as well. Quite logical really.

 

The perceived quality difference is not a problem of the new system, it's a core problem of virtuals themselves. You think virtuals are better because there's only so many of them and all the lame ones are long gone. Now everyone's creating challenges just because they can. They'd have done the same if they had been able to create virtuals.

Edited August 21, 2011 by dfx

[+ChileHead]

I fail to see how this is a problem but thousands of people fly across the country and the world to log 1000+ caches thrown every 0.10mi along a highway. Why is counting those "better"?

 

A count is just a count - not a score (yeah I know some view it as a score.)

[+BuckeyeClan]

 

Why does it matter to know if I've found 500 caches or 5000 caches? It doesn't matter AT ALL.

 

If someone fails at one of my caches or asks me which caches are recommendable, the caches he has found (not only the numbers, but also which ones) does have an influence on how I react.

 

 

I've looked at many of the profiles in this thread and all of them had either virtual, earthcaches, web cam, or an event logged as a find.

 

That's also contradictory.

 

No, it is not for me. For virtuals and Earthcaches there is a quality control.

They will never pop up in huge numbers and out of a moment of boredom.

For hiding a lame lamp post people need at least leave their house. For setting up challenges and for completed challenges this

is not required and that creates a problem.

 

Cezanne

 

1. If someone fails at one of your caches, or asks which are recommendable, then the grand total of finds still doesn't mean anything. You still have to click their profile and look at their individual breakdown. At that point you would be able to easily see how many challenges vs. caches someone has done.

 

2. I keep hearing about the "quality control" of virtuals because they were reviewed. I think I've found two, and while they were both at nice locations, neither one required strict gps use. The first was a formation in Carlsbad Caverns--uh, gpsr's don't even work that far underground, the coordinates were for the entrance at the surface. And the second one was an information sign at a scenic pull-out. Wow. Yes, the view was nice, but that is no better than a lot of the challenges I am seeing appear.

 

I really don't care if they count as a find or not. At this point I'm inclined to say just go ahead and make them separate. They can still list "challenges completed" where ever they currently combine the total, just make what is now 1 line into 2. That will still highlight challenges, without upsetting the cachers who want to remain "pure".