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Challenges Counting as Finds


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I honestly thought that Challenges were going to involve geocaching in some way. As mentioned, I figured one might "log 5 types of geocaches in a day" or "find a cache 100 straight days" Boy was I wrong! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

 

The way Challenges currently work is ridiculous. How about "pet a cat and take a picture" or "show your neighbor your surgery scar"????? Yeah, I think that should count toward one's finds <dripping with sarcasm!!!!!>

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I ran a little test and increased our find count by one with this Challenge Cache: Kiss a Frog

 

If the challenge caches are not going to be reviewed we will probably see a lot more of these. I'd say review and make them appropriate or don't count them as finds.

 

P.S. I tried to flag the cache as ‘inappropriate’ but there is no flag for that sort of thing. Options are: Prohibited, Offensive, Spam, and Unplayable

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I ran a little test and increased our find count by one with this Challenge Cache: Kiss a Frog

 

If the challenge caches are not going to be reviewed we will probably see a lot more of these. I'd say review and make them appropriate or don't count them as finds.

 

P.S. I tried to flag the cache as ‘inappropriate’ but there is no flag for that sort of thing. Options are: Prohibited, Offensive, Spam, and Unplayable

 

Well, I found it Offensive. :laughing:

My first thought was "This is just going to start another war between P&G LPC number whores Vs "traditional" cachers"

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The whole challenge thing is making a total complete farce of our wonderful game. Groundspeak should be ashamed of themselves for even attempting something so lame. Most cachers biggest bug-a-boo is that they go into the cache find totals. Remove that aspect and then who cares about the lame challenges of kissing frogs and eating ice cream cones upside down. Let people who want to do that go right ahead and have fun with it but.....get them out of our cache totals !

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Challenges could, in theory, be very interesting and "virtual-like" if there was some sort of vague review process. But there's not, so for now Groundspeak will be deleting 50 challenge caches an hour so that joey phonecacher doesn't have a 1000 find count because he found a picture of a cat sleeping on google.

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Allright, I'll bite. I've tried about 3 challenges so far... They don't add into my profile page count or on my public profile page count (the main page). The only place (so far anyway) that I've seen it added is when you click on someone's "geocache" tab in their public profile.

 

UPDATE: Ah, I see it's in the log entries as well...

 

So I guess my questions are:

 

1. If people are so concerned about other people's find counts, why don't they just view the breakout count on the main summary view of that person's public profile page? Besides, if someone wants to claim they have 20,000 finds only have someone view their profile and find 19,000 are geocaching challenges, that's going to be their embarrassment problem, right?

 

2. We've had armchair loggers for years with CO's not verifying logs. Now suddenly people are outraged with their inability to verify logs and being held to their honor and those logs being added to counts?

 

Confused.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying there aren't silly challenges and the whole thing doesn't need to improve dramatically (not being able to delete archived "accepted challenges" from my profile, REALLY?) I'm just curious about the particular outrage on the count stuff.

Edited by Cryptosporidium-623
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I honestly thought that Challenges were going to involve geocaching in some way. As mentioned, I figured one might "log 5 types of geocaches in a day" or "find a cache 100 straight days" Boy was I wrong! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

 

The way Challenges currently work is ridiculous. How about "pet a cat and take a picture" or "show your neighbor your surgery scar"????? Yeah, I think that should count toward one's finds <dripping with sarcasm!!!!!>

 

Agree, I almost wanted to post a challenge for anyone who would make me a PB&J, but figured why add to the stupidness, heck this is a C.P.D Couch potatoes delight!

 

Challenges could, in theory, be very interesting and "virtual-like" if there was some sort of vague review process. But there's not, so for now Groundspeak will be deleting 50 challenge caches an hour so that joey phonecacher doesn't have a 1000 find count because he found a picture of a cat sleeping on google.

 

Yep..I hope there is a review process, and also hope it sticks around, but not the way it is now, gotta have a gps, and not just an old pic lying around or just tweet away. Sure improvements gotta be on the way!

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It's like a watered-down, silly attempt at reinstating Virtuals. No owner, no review process, no rules, no coordinates, NOTHING that makes a cache a cache!

 

Which is why they aren't called caches. They are Challenges.

 

Really, I just don't get all the hand-wringing here. I'll agree that they haven't been implemented very well--better instructions *before* they went active would have been helpful, but there is still potential. They aren't even 24 hours old yet, why not wait a few weeks and see what shakes out? If you don't like the challenges, don't do them. Why is everybody so concerned with other peoples' find count? Do what's right for you, ignore everybody else. I doubt that I'll be rushing out to do any, but I can't imagine that my regular caching experience will be impacted greatly because of a few new links on the website and a few new stats on my profile. I've never found a benchmark, or a Wherigo, or a Waymark, or completed a challenge cache. I don't really care about any of those. Yet somehow I manage to enjoy caching despite knowing that these other entities exist. :rolleyes: The mere fact that there were hundreds, if not thousands, of geocachers sitting in front of their computers today, ready to submit a challenge as soon as they went live, proves that there are more than a few cachers interested in the concept. Give it a chance to work, or else just ignore it completely. Don't try to scuttle it the first day. I just can't imagine anybody actually quitting geocaching because of this! :rolleyes: Get a grip!

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It's like a watered-down, silly attempt at reinstating Virtuals. No owner, no review process, no rules, no coordinates, NOTHING that makes a cache a cache!

 

Which is why they aren't called caches. They are Challenges.

 

Really, I just don't get all the hand-wringing here. I'll agree that they haven't been implemented very well--better instructions *before* they went active would have been helpful, but there is still potential. They aren't even 24 hours old yet, why not wait a few weeks and see what shakes out? If you don't like the challenges, don't do them. Why is everybody so concerned with other peoples' find count? Do what's right for you, ignore everybody else. I doubt that I'll be rushing out to do any, but I can't imagine that my regular caching experience will be impacted greatly because of a few new links on the website and a few new stats on my profile. I've never found a benchmark, or a Wherigo, or a Waymark, or completed a challenge cache. I don't really care about any of those. Yet somehow I manage to enjoy caching despite knowing that these other entities exist. :rolleyes: The mere fact that there were hundreds, if not thousands, of geocachers sitting in front of their computers today, ready to submit a challenge as soon as they went live, proves that there are more than a few cachers interested in the concept. Give it a chance to work, or else just ignore it completely. Don't try to scuttle it the first day. I just can't imagine anybody actually quitting geocaching because of this! :rolleyes: Get a grip!

 

Well, in case you haven't read the forums, I'll just let you know that the majority of people are "scuttling" I don't care about other's numbers, I don't care if people abuse this. What I think sucks is that this has nothing in common with geocaching. With no owners and no review process, there will be stupid and meaningless Challenges cluttering up the pile with a few well-thought Challenges. I would not mind them if they at least got you out of the house. But when I see pictures of people kissing frogs I have to ask myself how this has anything to do with geocaching.

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For starters, they definately should not count unless the challenge is completed AFTER it is published!

Even then all I have to do is draw a picture of a frog, take a pic of me kissing it and get a smilie.!

Rediculious in my opinion!......Hoots!

I agree, but if you make your challange correctly it can't be fake logged with an old photo. :anibad: There are no finds to count, but challanges to complete. :laughing:

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Guys keep up the negative reviews on this STUPID attempt at Groundspeak attempt to make themselves a Google of Geocaching and keep adding things that are actually Worse to the game itself or the visual appearance of their site...

Oh, P.S. the logs that people post now show everyone as Found it,mmm about 9 months ago ...but, you expect me to then click further into that to see the exact date. TEEEDDDIIIIOUUUSSS. Thanks for your attempts Groundspeak but you guys have got to stop trying to change things so much. Challenges? Here's one: Leave the site alone for more than 2 months..plx thx k bye..

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It's like a watered-down, silly attempt at reinstating Virtuals. No owner, no review process, no rules, no coordinates, NOTHING that makes a cache a cache!

 

Which is why they aren't called caches. They are Challenges.

 

Really, I just don't get all the hand-wringing here. I'll agree that they haven't been implemented very well--better instructions *before* they went active would have been helpful, but there is still potential. They aren't even 24 hours old yet, why not wait a few weeks and see what shakes out? If you don't like the challenges, don't do them. Why is everybody so concerned with other peoples' find count? Do what's right for you, ignore everybody else. I doubt that I'll be rushing out to do any, but I can't imagine that my regular caching experience will be impacted greatly because of a few new links on the website and a few new stats on my profile. I've never found a benchmark, or a Wherigo, or a Waymark, or completed a challenge cache. I don't really care about any of those. Yet somehow I manage to enjoy caching despite knowing that these other entities exist. :rolleyes: The mere fact that there were hundreds, if not thousands, of geocachers sitting in front of their computers today, ready to submit a challenge as soon as they went live, proves that there are more than a few cachers interested in the concept. Give it a chance to work, or else just ignore it completely. Don't try to scuttle it the first day. I just can't imagine anybody actually quitting geocaching because of this! :rolleyes: Get a grip!

 

Well, in case you haven't read the forums, I'll just let you know that the majority of people are "scuttling" I don't care about other's numbers, I don't care if people abuse this. What I think sucks is that this has nothing in common with geocaching. With no owners and no review process, there will be stupid and meaningless Challenges cluttering up the pile with a few well-thought Challenges. I would not mind them if they at least got you out of the house. But when I see pictures of people kissing frogs I have to ask myself how this has anything to do with geocaching.

 

I read the forums quite a bit, I know very well what people are saying. If people don't like the challenges, then the best thing for them to do is simply not do them. No, it isn't geocaching. Some would also argue that events, earthcaches, virtuals, etc. aren't geocaching either. This is just supposed to be a fun, alternate way for people to share certain locations with others. It is purposely designed to NOT be geocaching. Groundspeak did a poor job explaining these things beforehand, and a lot of carp got listed in the first few hours. It appears that TPTB are archiving those listings, and leaving only true location-based challenges (other than their own worldwide challenges). I'm just saying that people are condemning the whole thing without really waiting to see how things might change. The good news is, since they aren't geocaches, they don't affect actual geocaching in any way--no proximity issues, no abandoned cache issues, no inactive owner issues, etc. You can completely ignore challenges, and it won't affect your game at all. The only thing affected is other people's find count--but that doesn't matter, right?

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Earlier today I changed my challenges accomplished count back from one to zero and intend to keep it that way.

 

I think the ZERO count on challenges will come to signify one as a true geocacher! laugh.gif

 

I'm gonna create a challenge that you have to have 0 completed challenges to log it.

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' timestamp='1313733024' post='4814645']

Earlier today I changed my challenges accomplished count back from one to zero and intend to keep it that way.

 

I think the ZERO count on challenges will come to signify one as a true geocacher! laugh.gif

 

I'm gonna create a challenge that you have to have 0 completed challenges to log it.

 

Well I think that would suck because i along with many other people tried it one time and now it arcihved and cant get it off their page. So i know for me a true cacher and trail lover that one "completed" that is now stuck on my page:( is a real bummer. I really hope they just get rid of it all an all the "finds" that people think they are getting. I hope so for my sake.

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' timestamp='1313733024' post='4814645']

Earlier today I changed my challenges accomplished count back from one to zero and intend to keep it that way.

 

I think the ZERO count on challenges will come to signify one as a true geocacher! laugh.gif

 

I'm gonna create a challenge that you have to have 0 completed challenges to log it.

 

Well I think that would suck because i along with many other people tried it one time and now it arcihved and cant get it off their page. So i know for me a true cacher and trail lover that one "completed" that is now stuck on my page:( is a real bummer. I really hope they just get rid of it all an all the "finds" that people think they are getting. I hope so for my sake.

 

I feel for you, I actually did log one but unlogged it soon after while I still could so I didn't lose my virginity. I hope they change it and you can de log it soon too.

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' timestamp='1313738442' post='4814739']
' timestamp='1313733024' post='4814645']

Earlier today I changed my challenges accomplished count back from one to zero and intend to keep it that way.

 

I think the ZERO count on challenges will come to signify one as a true geocacher! laugh.gif

 

I'm gonna create a challenge that you have to have 0 completed challenges to log it.

 

Well I think that would suck because i along with many other people tried it one time and now it arcihved and cant get it off their page. So i know for me a true cacher and trail lover that one "completed" that is now stuck on my page:( is a real bummer. I really hope they just get rid of it all an all the "finds" that people think they are getting. I hope so for my sake.

 

I feel for you, I actually did log one but unlogged it soon after while I still could so I didn't lose my virginity. I hope they change it and you can de log it soon too.

 

I am so happy I didn't log one today before I left to >gasp< actually geocache. I did however make a challenge, CX22, first in Washington (Other than official Groundspeak ones). I had assumed you would be able to edit the text after publish. I would have spent more time wording it better if I had known. As long as Challenges counts toward the final tally I won't be logging them.

 

It seems to me that the simple solution is treat them similar to benchmarks. Just my two cents and no reason to elaborate as it's all been said.

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Sounds like someone at Groundspeak had the original idea, possibly someone at a very high level, and there was agreement, possibly by subordinates, and then the groupthink got way out of control. Don't get me wrong, I like finding old virtual caches, but this idea -- as currently implemented -- has lots of problems. [Please wait a second, I have to go out and take a photo of myself kissing a frog.] It COULD be an interesting facet of the game but will have to be monitored by someone. If this remains a part of Geocaching.com, I assume that the reviewers will get some new job responsibilities. With no commensurate increase in their compensation.

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I think that it is a bad idea that challenges count as finds for several reasons.

 

I have already come across a number of challenges where the challenge consists in finding and logging a specific cache. In that manner finding a cache counts as two finds. The next step would be to come along with a challenge that requires the completion of the first challenge that asked for finding a cache. In that manner one gets three finds for one cache etc.

 

Personally, I do not want that actions like collecting litter count towards my find count and that's why I will not take part in the litter collecting challenge which is at least useful. I'd like a way to participate without effect on the find count.

 

Cezanne

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I believe I have not seen one post here of someone who is in favor of having the challenge count within the total found counts. I believe Jeremy does not want to change everything on the first day of the challenges-release. But I'm fine when he changes it on the second day, which is about now.

 

GS, please remove the addition of 'challenges completed' in the total count!!

 

Luckily I have not completed any challenge yet (although I was very tempted to kiss the frog next to the pond that I drove by this morning...), and will not do so until it is clear that it will not be counted up in my total found cache numbers.

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It's like a watered-down, silly attempt at reinstating Virtuals. No owner, no review process, no rules, no coordinates, NOTHING that makes a cache a cache!

 

It's not a cache. It's (or is intended to be) a location based game running integrated into the existing geocaching.com web site.

 

But getting back to the topic of this thread. Before challenges were release I thought that they *should* count towards ones find count. That was partly for selfish reasons as I often find myself traveling in places where I might not have time to complete an elaborate multi but I might have time to complete a challenge. I didn't envision how abusive others would be of the gaping loopholes which have allowed the creation of meaningless location non-specific challenges and arm chair completions.

 

If GS decided to pull the plug on counting challenges as finds I wouldn't complain, but I still would like to see them counted in some way.

 

That said, at the end of the day, each of us has the choice in which challenge we accept and log as complete. Nobody is forcing you to accept a challenge you find meaningless. Someone was complaining in another thread about a "Take a Hike" challenge showing up in their find count because the only thing they found was a picture on their computer of them hiking. I've seen numerous challenges which I have completed...retroactively. For example there's a "Take a picture with Mickey Mouse" challenge. I've got a photo of my son and I with Mickey Mouse but it was taken a year ago, and I've decided not to accept any challenges that I've completed retroactively so I don't have to worry about any of them adding to my find count.

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That said, at the end of the day, each of us has the choice in which challenge we accept and log as complete. Nobody is forcing you to accept a challenge you find meaningless.

 

Agreed, but as long as the completion counts towards my find count, I will not complete any challenge at all, also not those rare ones that I regard as nice and/or meaningful. I can live with that, but I think it is unfortunate as it means that many of those who are not totally negative about challenges by principle will not participate.

Things like leading by example will not be possible along these lines, except by not participating at all.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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Sounds like someone at Groundspeak had the original idea, possibly someone at a very high level, and there was agreement, possibly by subordinates, and then the groupthink got way out of control. Don't get me wrong, I like finding old virtual caches, but this idea -- as currently implemented -- has lots of problems. [Please wait a second, I have to go out and take a photo of myself kissing a frog.]

 

 

In a discussion a couple of weeks ago Jeremy indicated that he was against counting challenges in the total find count but other lackey twisted his arm enough until he reluctantly allowed them as finds.

 

It COULD be an interesting facet of the game but will have to be monitored by someone. If this remains a part of Geocaching.com, I assume that the reviewers will get some new job responsibilities. With no commensurate increase in their compensation.

 

Or, GS could solicit volunteers to be Challenge Moderators rather than add to the burden for existing reviewers. Challenges don't have the complexity of guidelines regarding permission, proximity, and other guidelines which reviewers have to consider when determining if a listing should be published. A challenge moderator would mostly just have to look over a listing to make sure that it's location specific and click an approve or deny button. They might also have the power to delete inappropriate comments but the task set would be much different than what reviewers are doing.

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There's one group of people that play this game, and they LOVE having a large find count. They LOVE that other people see their find count. They LOVE to pretend the find count actually means something. They're very concerned about other people's find count too. They want to make sure that everyone else has an "honest" find count, because it would be a shame if too many people's find count passed their own. These people use their find count to compare themselves with other cachers. Ironically these are the same people that are most vocal in the forums shouting "The numbers don't matter" and referring to people that enjoy finding LPCs as "numbers whores". These people claim that they don't care about the numbers, but in reality they are the ones that care the most.

 

Those people are the ones that are complaining about the Challenges adding to the find count.

 

There is another group of people that don't care about other people's find count. They like their own, and they know what their own find count means and doesn't mean, but they don't use find counts to compare themselves with others. These are the people that don't care what does and doesn't count towards someone else's find count, because it doesn't matter. These are the people that realize there's no cheating possible in this game because there isn't a meaningful score kept. These people probably enjoy geocaching more than those that care about the numbers.

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There is another group of people that don't care about other people's find count. They like their own, and they know what their own find count means and doesn't mean, but they don't use find counts to compare themselves with others. These are the people that don't care what does and doesn't count towards someone else's find count, because it doesn't matter.

 

You black-white classification is way too simplistic.

 

As I have mentioned before I am mainly concerned about what counts for my find count. I decided not to take part in the litter collecting challenge because I do not want to add this to my find count. I am not wishing to compare myself to anyone else. I just do not want to have litter collecting mixed up with geocaching. I am not taking part in CITOs either and would wish that participation in events does not count towards my find count while still being able to note an attended.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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Before the release, I thought that I would want them to count.

 

But now that I see what the challenges are like, I want them to be kept separate, like the benchmarks. They can still count for themselves, but I acknowledge that many of them have nothing to do with geocaching or location based games.

 

I haven't done any yet. I understand why they did kiss a frog, but generally I think it is stupid, and was a bad example to set. There are two that are a reasonable distance from me, and they are both good challenges (one I actually created). I will get out and do them when time permits (but I'm not rushing to be FTC on them).

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It COULD be an interesting facet of the game but will have to be monitored by someone. If this remains a part of Geocaching.com, I assume that the reviewers will get some new job responsibilities. With no commensurate increase in their compensation.

I wouldn't assume that. Many reviewers, myself included, have made it quite clear that we have no interest in returning to anything like the 2001-2005 era when we were reviewing virtual and locationless caches. The pressures of that failed review system factored into the new design. So, what you are seeing with the flow of challenge submissions should give you a taste of what it was like for a reviewer back when people could submit those types of geocaches. I hope that any non-believers now believe what the reviewers have been saying on this subject for many years. It is no fun spending a disproportionate amount of one's volunteer time trying to explain to an angry virtual or locationless cache submitter why their listing doesn't meet the rules.

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I am not wishing to compare myself to anyone else. I just do not want to have litter collecting mixed up with geocaching. I am not taking part in CITOs either and would wish that participation in events does not count towards my find count while still being able to note an attended.

 

This data is readily available:

 

Suggestion 1. View your profile. The challenge counts are separate from your "find" counts.

 

Suggestion 2. View your public profile. The challenge counts are separate from your "find" counts.

 

In the case of CITOs and other things you don't believe count as finds, go to your public profile, click the "Geocaches" tab, subtract anything out you don't want to count.

 

Easy.

Edited by Cryptosporidium-623
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I am not wishing to compare myself to anyone else. I just do not want to have litter collecting mixed up with geocaching. I am not taking part in CITOs either and would wish that participation in events does not count towards my find count while still being able to note an attended.

 

This data is readily available:

 

Available yes, also in my memory - I do not need a website for that purpose. I do not like however what the website displays. I am mathematician and correct numbers are important for me whereever I encounter them. When someone encounters one of my logs on a cache page, the overall find count is displayed and I do not want to have a wrong number there.

 

Maybe an idea would be to create a second account just for challenges.

Apparently some cachers are trying to experiment with challenges without getting their own account dirty.

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=f9d71027-d26b-4740-afa9-01858e21d2d7

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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Yesterday I kissed a frog. Later in the day I realized what affect that had on my geocaching stats and decided it was time to bail out while I had a chance. Fortunately I was able to undo the kiss, as opposed to some who have had belated misgivings and can't remove their stats due to archived challenges.

 

Until there is a revision in how these things affect my stats I won't be logging any of these challenges as accomplished.

 

That does not prevent me from still using the Challenge concept to find cool locations or cool things to do. I am only taking a portion of Jeremy's advice, "If you don't like challenges then don't participate" (paraphrase). I may participate but I won't muck up MY numbers by logging them.

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I'm not interested but i can see why many would find challenges as being fun. I think that, with some tweaking, they may have a place somewhere on the web. That somewhere is NOT on gc.com since the majority of these things, that i've seen so far, have nothing to do with geocaching. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this...

 

Seems simple enough, offer it on Waymarking.com or on it's own site, most any where but on gc.com. <_<

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Yesterday I kissed a frog. Later in the day I realized what affect that had on my geocaching stats and decided it was time to bail out while I had a chance. Fortunately I was able to undo the kiss, as opposed to some who have had belated misgivings and can't remove their stats due to archived challenges.

 

I'm confused by your statement above. My stats were regenerated overnight and I don't see any impact from the Geocaching Challenges. Did you mean to say your "find count"? If not, which stats did you see impacted by logging the Geocaching Challenge?

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I'm happy enough for the frog-kissers to have their own game, but really don't like the challenge count being included in 'total finds'. It's as ridiculous as including trackable finds in there. More ridiculous in fact, seeing as you usually have to leave your sofa to bag a trackable.

 

Kissing a frog has nothing to do with geocaching. Keep challenges separate.

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Yesterday I kissed a frog. Later in the day I realized what affect that had on my geocaching stats and decided it was time to bail out while I had a chance. Fortunately I was able to undo the kiss, as opposed to some who have had belated misgivings and can't remove their stats due to archived challenges.

 

I'm confused by your statement above. My stats were regenerated overnight and I don't see any impact from the Geocaching Challenges. Did you mean to say your "find count"? If not, which stats did you see impacted by logging the Geocaching Challenge?

 

"Stats" may have been the wrong choice of words.

 

This is one place that comes to mind. Your total here includes your 4 challenges. Yes, I know you can hover over it to get details. I just don't personally care for it. You may. To each his own.

 

There is another place where the TOTAL includes the challenges but I forgot where that was.

 

ed692713-759f-4a28-9d2d-14fe293ca8bf.jpg

Edited by cheech gang
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There's one group of people that play this game, and they LOVE having a large find count. They LOVE that other people see their find count. They LOVE to pretend the find count actually means something. They're very concerned about other people's find count too. They want to make sure that everyone else has an "honest" find count, because it would be a shame if too many people's find count passed their own. These people use their find count to compare themselves with other cachers. Ironically these are the same people that are most vocal in the forums shouting "The numbers don't matter" and referring to people that enjoy finding LPCs as "numbers whores". These people claim that they don't care about the numbers, but in reality they are the ones that care the most.

 

Those people are the ones that are complaining about the Challenges adding to the find count.

 

There is another group of people that don't care about other people's find count. They like their own, and they know what their own find count means and doesn't mean, but they don't use find counts to compare themselves with others. These are the people that don't care what does and doesn't count towards someone else's find count, because it doesn't matter. These are the people that realize there's no cheating possible in this game because there isn't a meaningful score kept. These people probably enjoy geocaching more than those that care about the numbers.

 

And there is another group of people who don't care about the find counts of others, or even their own. They cache for the pure joy of discovery, but think the numbers hounds are screwing up the game.

 

Some in this group would rather that challenge not be in the find count, but aren't going to scream bloody murder over the subject.

Edited by briansnat
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There's one group of people that play this game, and they LOVE having a large find count. They LOVE that other people see their find count. They LOVE to pretend the find count actually means something. They're very concerned about other people's find count too. They want to make sure that everyone else has an "honest" find count, because it would be a shame if too many people's find count passed their own. These people use their find count to compare themselves with other cachers. Ironically these are the same people that are most vocal in the forums shouting "The numbers don't matter" and referring to people that enjoy finding LPCs as "numbers whores". These people claim that they don't care about the numbers, but in reality they are the ones that care the most.

 

Those people are the ones that are complaining about the Challenges adding to the find count.

 

There is another group of people that don't care about other people's find count. They like their own, and they know what their own find count means and doesn't mean, but they don't use find counts to compare themselves with others. These are the people that don't care what does and doesn't count towards someone else's find count, because it doesn't matter. These are the people that realize there's no cheating possible in this game because there isn't a meaningful score kept. These people probably enjoy geocaching more than those that care about the numbers.

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