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cincol

PT's - Yay or Nay

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Cape Doc's comment made in another thread made me think of this. There is so much debate, mudslinging, winging, crying, shouting - call it what you will - flying around since the GPS was created I thought I would create this thread to formulate a "poll" on the subject.

 

If you post please start with "YAY" or "NAY" and elaborate a little on your answer. Let's be a bit lighthearted about it - if we can! :ph34r:

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Nay - PTs devalue my smileys.

 

(I say Nay to hides contrived for the purpose of getting records - setting out long series to enable many finds in a day - placing 9 cache types in a 'hood to be able to log 9 cache types in a day - placing a cache in your bathtub so your buddy can log a diving cache, etc)

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If you post please start with "YAY" or "NAY" and elaborate a little on your answer. Let's be a bit lighthearted about it - if we can! :ph34r:

 

Another "Nay".

 

<rant>

 

It may be all about numbers, but a group of 5 or more finding umpteen micros 161 m apart is not the way to do it (and yes, it is legal).

 

Being able to log hundreds of finds like that in one day is I feel totally contrary to the original spirit of geocaching.

 

Caches 161 m apart on a walking or cycling trail in nature are IMHO completely different and this sort of "power" trail is to be encouraged.

 

</rant>

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I am deleting my comment. I don't believe this forum topic should continue. Please refer to my post in the Power Trail topic.

Edited by Cape Geckos

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Nay!

 

If some geocachers get a kick out of boosting their cache totals thro' a PT so be it, but I cannot see any great sense of satisfaction or achievement in that. I would rather spend a whole day or even 8 days as we did recently on finding a really quality cache than pick up 100s of throw-aways.

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Nay.

 

Get a 1000 cachers together and you will hear 1000 ways to do geocaching. PTs may be legal but..... It's like giving your mother-in-law a good old French kiss. It's legal, but eish, it just doesn't feel right. :yikes:

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NAY

 

Utter drivel, and in my opinion, the only issue that winds me up with enough emotion to get me banned from this Forum..... which might still happen.

 

But, this ridiculous power-trail is within the guidelines, so I have to respect that it is "legal" and "the will of the people", and the "will of the people" will always prevail despite those who don't like it.

 

Fortunately, I can play the game how I want to, totally independant to anyone else, and nobody other than Groundspeak will tell me how to play it, not GoSA, nor power-trail creators, nor any other self-appointed, opionated authority (but I do respect their bona-fides in doing what they are trying to which comes from a passion for the game).

 

Being an optomistic sort of person (normally), I hope for some good to come from this current wave of "whatever" is happening now, but I have my doubts. It's the same path every "bigger" geo-country has walked already as part of their evolution. Some players love it, some hate it. In case you're unsure (LOL), I'm part of the "hate it" contingent.

 

I liked it back in the good old days when a smiley had some real value, and if you have more smileys than fond memories, then you're playing the game backwards.... (a quote from a wise old-school player - you know who you are).

 

My own personal viewpoint, as mentioned in another thread - I'll try to look for some "good" and "fun" in this ridiculous power-trail next time we're in Gauteng - maybe, but no big deal either way. I think that it could be fun trying to walk the western trail in two days - which for me, at 30 kms a day and many caches to take time logging, could make it a memorable challenge. But, I need to look at the route first - does it have any allure at all or will it just be a two-day walk along an uninteresting Gauteng road? Being out in the country, it might be nice, and could be fun to walk it with some good mates, but I'm not convinced yet....

 

Stop/start driving every 200m to log an inane micro - you gotta be dadgum joking unless someone can enlighten me about what's fun about that.

"Dadgum" used intentionally knowing that the Forum software would change what I wanted to write to "dadgum" anyway.

 

My greatest respect to the current Groundspeak volunteers.

I'm very pleased that I've "been there, and done that" before this happened.....

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Nay - PTs devalue my smileys.

 

(I say Nay to hides contrived for the purpose of getting records - setting out long series to enable many finds in a day - placing 9 cache types in a 'hood to be able to log 9 cache types in a day - placing a cache in your bathtub so your buddy can log a diving cache, etc)

Nay - I fully agree with Besem's sentiment and as a persons that ownes (21) of the PT caches, If I knew beforehand that I would be subjected to so many negative comments (some close to verbal abuse) and not only in the forums, but also Facebook, email and now also in the logs received from cachers finding them, I would never have been part of this.... On the verge of disabling, archiving all of them.... :huh:

Edited by B and C Inc

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Definitely a NAY.

 

Geocaching has always been fun and a challenge and that's how we would prefer it to be - we love a good hunt and clever hides that take us a while to find and then value that 'smiley' we get, so very much!

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On the verge of disabling, archiving all of them....

Now that would make a strong statement and take a bit of guts.

 

NAY

 

IMHO:

 

Pros of PTs:

 

- push up my numbers

- getting together with a bunch of mates to see how many we could find in a day, could be fun. I see the planning, meeting at 12am, the padkos and coffee, shouting abuse at the guy who's turn it is to find one 'cos he's too slow, sharing the petrol. Finishing at 12am. Good fun, Good comradery. Others have done......similar.... in Bloemfontein.

 

Cons of PTS:

 

- push up my numbers. I agree with Besem above.

- they are so against the founding principles of Geocaching that they USED to be banned. I agree with CapeGekos. Founding principles were against encouraging number chasing and for creating unique experiences for each cache.

- they have devided our Geocaching community and represent a change in direction and ethos of Geocaching in South Africa. I liked the fact that South African Geocaching did not follow the overseas trends and that there was more emphasis on QUALITY over QUANTITY. We seem to have drifted from that emphasis and that saddens me.

- they foster competitive behavior, which in turn leads to petty arguments, often in a public domain. This too saddens me.

 

I appologise to the OP as I cannot "keep it light" when mostly I feel sad about this issue.

There are geocachers who are involved with the PT that I really LIKE and I feel my opinions on this matter may damage my chances at future friendships with those cachers. How can that not sadden me too?

 

For me, these are heavy Cons when counterweighted with the light, self centered Pros.

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@ B and C Inc

I commend you on your post and vote. That must have been hard. I am sorry that you have received such a hard time. I know that it was born out of passion and love of the game.

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I too vote nay.

 

I don't have very strong feelings either way, and if it lasts, I might just fly up and do it. To keep up with numbers if nothing else. But this isn't why I started caching. Getting lots of caches in a day is fun. The shipwreck series for example was amazing, but each location was carefully researched, each hide clever, each listing considered...

 

I'm all for filling out SA with appropriate caches allowing us to achieve some of the 'numbers game' awards. Like the fizzy chart for example. It would be silly to place a hide and give it a rating of 4.5/3 to be able to fill in a missing square, but having a 'real' 4.5/3 in town to do would be awesome. (I just pulled that number from nowhere, there are missing combos in cpt, but I don't remember what they are off hand, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now). I'd personally vote for more whereigos, more letterboxes, a cito, and working on the Mega. These are great goals. A single PT in SA... ok, but I'd hate to see a lot of them, even if they were on cool paths. I'm haunted by an image in my mind of a PT ringing Table Mtn along the contour path ... that doesn't seem like a lot of fun to me. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't go find them.

 

I've yet to use my ignore list in SA, and I hope I never have to. I'm sad the issue has caused such ... disgruntledness. I ended up leaving the FB group, as I saw little point in getting an inbox full of venom. We have amazing places to go, fantastic scenery, wonderful heritage, and a lot to learn from each other. That is why I love caching in SA. in my brief experience of caching in the US, I don't think I'd have taken up the hobby had I started there. I'm not sure I'd continue it if I moved there either.

 

What got me hooked was cism's hurling swaai cache (http://coord.info/GC1PVK6), it was my first. I'd driven past the landmark every day, but didn't know its history. Geocaching opened up a new window on reality for me, and continues to with *most* caches I do. It is an interactive guide book, history lesson, geology lesson, friend pointing out that cool flower on a hike, etc.. That is what I love, and what I try to provide with my hides.

 

That said, if others got hooked on caching for different reasons, I'm all for letting them play the game their way too.

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I appologise to the OP as I cannot "keep it light" when mostly I feel sad about this issue. ........................................

 

 

CapeDoc - Basically what I was aiming at in my original post was that the comments do NOT turn into dragon's breath. Although I do not live in SA I have very deep connections and will, one day, return home.

 

What I have read so far is EXACTLY the sort of comments I was looking for in the thread. So far all answers have been relatively objective and nobody has breathed any fire on fellow cachers - yet!

 

Keep it up cachers - keep it clean and friendly. BTW, so far not one "YAY" has been recorded. Interesting. :o

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I have to respect that it is "legal" and "the will of the people", and the "will of the people" will always prevail

 

 

(my emphasis)

 

Seems that the "will of the people" in favour of PTs is not very apparent .....

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:sad: Why? I'll be the first: YAY

 

Herewith my reasons:

 

1. Your smileys are YOUR smileys. My smileys are my smileys. Yours aren't mine and mine aren't yours. Therefore, if you did 30 caches a year for the last 10 years, you would have 10 years worth of memories, and that increases the value of your smileys. If you did 1 power series, and have 600 odd smileys, then the group represents an experience only other cachers that did it can appreciate. Therefore, whether you are yay or nay, the power series only has an effect on the value of your finds if you let it be. The same with every other geocache in the world.

 

2. A quite blind geocacher had an FTF on a few of the series, something that he wouldn't have had if it wasn't for the series. Oh, and he was alone, not with the group that did the GPS series on 23/7/2011. He found it "old school geocaching"

 

3. I am doing a personal challenge of a daily cache, something that many other cachers also did/do. I am an auditors' clerck, and that means my working days are quite often very long. Therefore, for those days that I can't go climbing some mountain to log a find I find it convenient to find another cache. This is Gauteng, and caching at night is more dangerous here than anywhere else in the country. That makes the GPS a safety attribute...

 

4. I know of some geocachers that was openly against the GPS series from the moment they were published. These cachers, however, did the series over the weekend. But, since they were so openly against it, they would not admit logging the finds (finds that I know is not possible as the cache itself was muggled and the CO was on it's way to replace it). They were intrigued, and gave in to their curiosity. I'll bet every find I have thus far that they had at least had a few good ideas for their own caches, or a few good laughs doing it.

 

5. Geocaching is to me what it is to me. It is what I make it. FUN. I MAKE it fun. I have no problem with the series. To each his own. And for those wondering, no, I have not yet done the series as a whole, but I have found some. One here, one there, but I am planning to do the series with another team. However, as I have already found some of them, I would have to go caching afterwards if I want to get the "record", and I'll decide then if am going to.

 

6. The GPS wasn't created with the idea of causing division between the community. It was done backed with the idea that it would be enjoyed by the community, not cause everybody who didn't think of it first to react violently. If you can't see it, no problem. But don't make a problem out of an idea that was born out of love for the game! There were a lot of teams involved, and I appreciate their effort, even if some of the caches were placed in a cliche manner. They placed the GPS series where it is for a reason... What exactly that reason is, I have no idea. I would find out when (not if) I get around to do the caches.

 

@ B & C Inc, please do not archive your listings. Most of the GPS series caches I have found so far were innovative, creative, and well done. I have found about half as many different styles of hides than the amount of caches I have found. In trees, under rocks, cleverly hidden in plain sight where nobody who wasn't looking for would ignore it, behind signs on fences, etc. It would be a shame that the community bullies a CO and denies him his right to hide a cache. You did a lot of planning and organising to have you caches ready for the D-day. Please ignore anybody that sends you negative critisism, especially those in their logs that take on an agressive manner. Remember, you are the CO, your caches was published.

 

I think this poll is meaningless, because I think those pro-PT or part of the planning and executing of the GPS series would be silent in the background, being sad, feeling betrayed by the community. I am. And the sad part is that it only a part of the community that has this effect.

:cry:

Edited by Black James Cash

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I think this poll is meaningless, because I think those pro-PT or part of the planning and executing of the GPS series would be silent in the background, being sad, feeling betrayed by the community. I am. And the sad part is that it only a part of the community that has this effect.

:cry:

 

 

We all have our opinions and the right to air them - or not. Thanks for the input. It was interesting to read the only "YAY" so far. I am sure there will be a few more. :unsure:

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Just seen this.

I'll be the 2nd YAY

 

It's the adventure, to do something like that with a few orhr people will hold great memories and photos. In the pipe line for the future is a great adventure, to do the ET highway and route 66 series. Numbers smumbers I don't care. It's the trip, the photos the adventure for me. And last but not least the people I might meet along the way.

If you don't like a PT THEN, like said before you don't do it.

 

That's the beauty of this lovely game everybody plays it as they see fit. Don't close this trail because you getting flak, just ignor them and bask in the glory that you have created something that some people will enjoy

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Cons of PTS:

 

...

 

- they foster competitive behavior, which in turn leads to petty arguments, often in a public domain. This too saddens me.

 

 

CapeDoc, this is not directed at you, but towards those who make the petty arguments you observe.

 

I know of a geocacher that found almost 2000 caches in a year (his first year geocaching), being close to breaking iPajero's record for the fastest 1000 finds. Yes, he did the GPS series, but that only contains some 600 caches. He has found at least 1 cache everyday for a year now. Is he going to be flamed for being such an active geocacher? Geocaching is not a competitive sport, if it was, what are losers like me even trying for? If there are cachers that are competing, they should, in my opinion, compete silently, or form teams that compete against each other. I geocache because I like it. The referred geocacher is competitive, but you don't see him flaunting his achievements in everybody's faces. I have 114 finds, 1 hide. My hide was placed June 2011, and it isn't even a popular hide. I have been caching daily for 54 days now, and found 70 in that 54 days. In the same time-frame, some cachers have planted 60+ caches, found more than 1000. If they want to be competitive, I have no problem. If they beat you, and you don't like it, beat them at their own game. If you don't care about competing (like me), please don't make geocaching a sad experience?

 

PS. The following is from Danie's stats topic:

 

Gauteng Power Series statistics:

Up to this morning (17 August 2011) there have been 10252 finds of the 655 GPS caches, for an average of 15.6 finds per cache.

There have been 337 DNFs on 138 caches.

The most found cache is GPS - Solidarity, with 55 finds.

There are 5 unfound caches, of which one has been archived.

 

20 cachers have found more than 100.

58 cachers have found more than 10.

142 cachers have found at least one.

From the above numbers it is clear that most of the cachers do not try to do large numbers in a single outing.

 

May this serve as an answer from many of those Pro-PT's, as many of them aren't on the forums.

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Nay also for me.

 

I have huge satisfaction that the great majority of my smileys are very worthy caches and do not just boost the numbers. Having said that though - if I lived in Gauteng - I would definitely do the PT - "to clear the area" knowing however that I would not experience the same feeling of doing one cache that has taken considerable time, taken me to a place I have never seen and provided me with interesting history or background.

 

I do not judge those involved in the PT - its just not how I personally love the game.

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Nay also for all the good reasons given above - but also not condemning the trail as it is a case of different stokes for different folk.

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Nay from RedGlobe

 

We are still old school and like to cache in interesting places. We don’t worry about numbers and will do a long hike even if it ends with a DNF. We like doing nature caches.

 

Maybe it’s that “resistance to change” factor.

 

Even if we personally don’t like PT’s, it does not mean we want to offend or attack other people for their view.

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.....and as we quoted on another thread:

 

You Can Please Some of The People All of The Time, And All of the People Some of The Time, But You Cannot Please All of The People All of the Time

 

But personally it is not something we would welcome in Cape Town as we have so many beautiful spots to place interesting and memorable caches.

Edited by cownchicken

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Definitely a NAY from me.

 

When I started out in the game is was quickly apparent to me who the "greybeards" were by their find counts. So those were the people I looked up to as a newbie, asked for advice and valued their logs. With a PT a newbie can rack up a high find count in a very short time, so devaluing smilies as a gauge of experience.

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Nay from my side as well.

 

However, it does intrigue me to know can I do 600 caches in a day.

I might join a team one weekend and attempt all 650, but I wont log it under DamhuisClan. Maybe I'll create a second caching name such as "DamhuisClan-GPS",. Maybe I wont log them at all.

 

The caches are on my doorstep, and I am considering ways it might be acceptable for me (me not anybody else) to log them. Maybe I do them on a bicycle with the kids. Maybe I'll walk them like FE is thinking of doing. Doing 30 km in a day though would be very tough for me. At least then I feel like I have worked for it. But I still don't know if or when I'll be doing them

 

I suppose the game / sport has evolved from a single cache in an area, to one in almost every park, and now to a power trail.

 

Some like it. Some don't

Some will come around to liking it. Some wont.

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I pride myself on being open-minded and have read the thread... But still I feel cannot see the community as a whole liking the idea - I feel for the minority who promote the idea. But if the overwhelming majority don't dig it and it impacts their playing the game I would respect the masses and not make any more power trails. If it did not effect the community in any way it would be a different story.

 

Nay.

Edited by Pappa-G

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As a South African I had two choices, either visit the USA to attempt the E.T. series, or plan one in South Africa, close to home.

Or, the third choice, which for me is the obvious one.....

To accept that geocaching should be a non-competitive pastime, and not try to make a life-and-death competition out of it.

Every time a coconut - whenever there's any stress within the geocaching community, it's to do with being competitive.

 

If you have a passion to compete with someone else, then go orienteering, or trail running, or play golf, or any other of the myriad highly competitive sports which were designed to be competitive, and have extensive rulebooks which makes them competition compatible. Try to compete at anything which doesn't have very specific and enforcable rules, and you'll have a disaster.....and that, in my opinion, is exactly what's happening here.

 

Wonder what would happen if we turned game viewing in the Kruger Park into a big competition, and awarded silly badges for rushing around as fast as we can trying to do more, bigger or better than the next game viewer.....?? Wonder how the authorities and other park visitors would like that...??

 

Again, I say NAY to powertrails, and I also say NAY to the silly badges and anything else that promotes competition between geocachers.

 

Edited to add:

Why am I so passionate about opposing this drivel...?? Because I've invested a lot of time, effort, and love for the game into the growth of geocaching in SA, and it breaks my heart to think that newbies will see this as the premier example of how the game works.

 

Maybe I should move to the Western Cape. They've got it all figured out right - the shipwreck series, and the Simonsberg/Swartkop series are in my opinion perfect examples of powertrails.

Edited by Fish Eagle

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It is the only way to achieve the diamond badge for number of caches found per day i.e. 400

 

Interesting ....

 

Neil, I was wondering how you will achieve Diamond Badges for the following:-

 

Head-in-the-clouds Award: You need to find a cache at 4500 m.

Wherigo Award: You need to find 60.

Geocacher Award: For this one you need to find 18000 caches.

Traditional Award: Here the target is 15000.

Virtual Award: Target is 180.

Letterboxer Award: 50 needed.

Adventurous Cacher Award (for finding 5/5 caches): You only need 30 of these 5/5 caches.

Head-in-the-Ground Award: You need to find a cache at 400 below sea level (but only one)

 

There are of course many other Diamond badges, but lets start with these ...

 

According to my GSAK Database with the latest PQs loaded, all of Africa has 7432 active caches, of which 6236 are Traditonal and 25 are Virtual. There are only 5 Wherigo caches, and only 16 D/T 5/5 caches. The lowest cache is in Djibouti at -158 m below seal level. The highest cache in Africa is naturally in Tanzania, at 5848 m (but you have 8 others you can do to get over 4500 m).

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TechnoNut: The same way I have been caching so far, one day at a time... and that is now 330 days in a row, of at least one cache a day.

 

And if I do not, so what?

 

As a South African I had two choices, either visit the USA to attempt the E.T. series, or plan one in South Africa, close to home. The latter seemed the most affordable, and it would give my friends the same opportunity, that is to be able to try for a diamond badge.

 

I think you missed my point. As a South African, how will you achieve the badges I mentioned?

 

I look forward to seeing about 13000 new caches in SA, some of them 5/5, and some more Wherigo, as well as a very deep hole close to the sea, and a very tall tower or mountain.

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ahem.... still don't know what diamond badges are. Who presents them and to whom?

I saw it on the profile of other cachers, when I started out. I am not sure where it came from, by it is generated through GSAK, I suppose.

 

It is my understanding that nobody presents it to anybody.

 

Your question and Fish Eagle's remarks now makes me wonder why Groundspeak is keeping track of any statistics at all...

 

So sorry, I wasn't trying to be funny, I genuinely did not know what a diamond badge was. We do not use GSAK at all and are not really concerned about statistics now that you mention it.

We go out and do caches simply for the joy of it, not to become a statistic.

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I do have the best interest of geocaching, and the geocaching comminity, in mind.

Hey Neil, I don't question your bona-fides or passion for the game at all. I have the greatest respect for you.

 

I think we've both been around the block a few times, and understand that we can disagree vehemently about something without losing respect for each other.

 

If I appeared to be "playing the man" instead of "playing the ball" - I apologise, that wasn't my intention.

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But these subjects actually only divides us if we want to force our own opinion on the next person

 

Is not the PT a way of forcing your opinion of how to cache, onto the rest of the geocaching community? One cannot deny it's impact on the community is more than just about whether the rest of the community wants to go out and find the caches. Finding the caches is not an issue for me at all. Yet here I sit, in Cape Town, affected and saddened by the effect of the PT.

 

It appears to me that the reasons FOR the trail mostly appear to be concerned with individuals meeting personal goals. It appears to me that all the reasons AGAINST the power trail are to do with community and maintaining an ethos that has been around for 10 years. At what expense then do those individual goals really come? If someones "style" of geocaching affects the whole community is it wrong for the community to voice their discontent? Must the wind of change that IS being forced on the community, be met, lying down, just because "It's in the rules"?

 

I know the PT was created out of passion for the game and truly meant as a contribution to the geocaching community. It was not placed with any foresight of the discontent that it would create. I cannot condemn those that placed it, for placing it. It is within the rules. However, the actions of those who now own the caches in the PT (now that the discontent is clear to see) will reflect their sense of community. The community has not affected the way they cache but the way they cache....although not intending to do so....is affecting the community.

 

I say it again. I dislike PTs because the create division. They create division by forcing change.

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I understand what CapeDoc is saying. But all I've seen comes down to this:

 

The persons for PT's, are selfish because they disregard the community.

 

Those against are selfish because PT's changes the way they experience the game, and sometimes devalue their own smileys (or is it ego's?).

 

My question: Is it impossible to compromise? Those that are against, don't do it. Those that are for, do it.

 

Why can we not continue the way we did? I see many who are against it say that they are against it because it devalues their smileys. Many who are for it have different reasons, but yes, it does seem to be personal/selfish-driven. I keep statistics, as a measurement to MYSELF of what I did, and for interest sake. In 15 years or so I would like to see how I progressed, where I have been, when I did what, etc. If someone is interested in my statistics, please, you know where to get my profile. Help yourself.

 

An example of smileys being devalued is the challenges that was enabled yesterday. MOST of them don't regard finding a cache, but still it counts as a measure of achievement. Also, the beloved Earthcaches (I know I'm treading on hallowed ground here) can be manipulated to be logged as a find if you have the nesessary knowledge. That means I can log all the EC's in the Kruger N Park, KZN, GP, and the rest of Africa all in one day, since they are not allowed to request proof of me actually being at the listed coordinates. Does this mean my smileys mean more, or less than anothers?

 

So what if there are competitive geocachers? If they feel they are the best, then let them. If you are not competitive, why does number-chasing bother you so much?! It doesn't bother ME!

 

Edited to add: I have no problem with the Earthcaches, I have actually been researching a few recently, and I would love to maybe someday place one!

Edited by Black James Cash

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To accept that geocaching should be a non-competitive pastime, and not try to make a life-and-death competition out of it.

Every time a coconut - whenever there's any stress within the geocaching community, it's to do with being competitive.

 

If you have a passion to compete with someone else, then go orienteering, or trail running, or play golf, or any other of the myriad highly competitive sports which were designed to be competitive, and have extensive rulebooks which makes them competition compatible. Try to compete at anything which doesn't have very specific and enforcable rules, and you'll have a disaster.....and that, in my opinion, is exactly what's happening here.

 

Wonder what would happen if we turned game viewing in the Kruger Park into a big competition, and awarded silly badges for rushing around as fast as we can trying to do more, bigger or better than the next game viewer.....?? Wonder how the authorities and other park visitors would like that...??

 

Again, I say NAY to powertrails, and I also say NAY to the silly badges and anything else that promotes competition between geocachers.

 

Edited to add:

Why am I so passionate about opposing this drivel...?? Because I've invested a lot of time, effort, and love for the game into the growth of geocaching in SA, and it breaks my heart to think that newbies will see this as the premier example of how the game works.

 

Maybe I should move to the Western Cape. They've got it all figured out right - the shipwreck series, and the Simonsberg/Swartkop series are in my opinion perfect examples of powertrails.

I think Fish Eagle sums this whole PT thing up the best.

 

I think this poll is meaningless, because I think those pro-PT or part of the planning and executing of the GPS series would be silent in the background, being sad, feeling betrayed by the community. I am. And the sad part is that it only a part of the community that has this effect.

The poll is not meaningless. It should be a eye opener. Why would you feel betrayed. This is a open forum, forums as per the english dictionary is as follows: a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest

So what you see happing here is a nice forum discussion! :laughing:

 

Also, the beloved Earthcaches (I know I'm treading on hallowed ground here) can be manipulated to be logged as a find if you have the nesessary knowledge. That means I can log all the EC's in the Kruger N Park, KZN, GP, and the rest of Africa all in one day, since they are not allowed to request proof of me actually being at the listed coordinates. Does this mean my smileys mean more, or less than anothers?

Not true, most earth caches needs some proof that you where at the actual cache location.

Edited by geocacher_coza

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I do NOT like posting here

I do NOT like conflict

I do NOT like seeing individuals who have made years of DEEP contributions to the game feeling forced to post here.

I do not feel that this is a case of selfish = selfish therefore score = 0

If you feel that, then I can only feel sad for you. Then you are missing the point. These scales are WAY out of balance. That's what I am trying to say.

I would LOVE to compromise, but the scale is SO offset. I cannot see how I can tip it to even.

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The PT is for me like a bottle store, earlier or later you will go there (some people make use of it everyday, other people go only there once a year) and you are glad that you can get what you want, but you do not want a bottle store next to your house!

 

Nay, I don't like them, Yay, I would do at least one cache if I could.

 

BTW, a few months ago I was overseas and had the chance to do a "power trail" which consisted of 12 caches nicely spaced not more than 200 meters apart. At that stage I thought it was quite an achievement to do them and I grabbed the "challenge" :-)

I had excellent company, the weather was perfect, the landscape was beautiful, but after the 5th cache I was getting bored, by the 9th cache I was "gatvol" and it became a matter of "vasbyt ou boet" until the 12th cache.

After signing the last log, I just thought:"Luckily we don't have something like that in SA!".....(famous last words)

 

(and now I am sitting at work and a lot of Fynbos finders are powering up a trail above Houtbay by perfect weather without me, life is not fair!)

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NAY

I have yet to come across a such a divisive subject in my brief geocaching lifetime. As has been commented on before, it boils down to competitiveness, trying to be one up on the next person. The scores are manipulated and norms twisted to score one up on someone else. Even the quest for FTFs has become a farce. Just because you attended an event and there was a cache published to coincide with the event everybody chalks up a FTF on it even if they only get to it the next day! To many cachers badges are irrelevant or don't even know what they are.

Likewise, I am sure if you asked the majority of Western Cape and other regional cachers on the importance and imperativeness of staging and attending a Mega event in South Africa they could not care a brass farthing. But this too is forcing geocaching into a mould because in order to host a Mega event you have to have a local organising committee which in turn has to be legally constituted to comply with the FIAS act and hence the statutory formation and legalisation of a GOSA. Geocaching was meant to be a fun, carefree pastime where you could go for a walk as a family and learn something about the environment that you may or may not have known. In the process you find a container, sign a log and possible trade something small. Now others are almost dictating how you will play the game and with whom. Is it imperative that we host a Mega, belong to a legal entity or participate in a power trail? I feel it should be up to the community as a whole to decide and cognisance taken of the will of the majority.

Did I participate in the PT? Yes, I did but after 115 caches I could see no further point in pushing myself to drive out any more fuel to get more of the same caches. Do I regret doing it, no, because at least I can say I gave it a try and it gave me 11 more favourite points to give to more deserving caches.

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YAY - we think it is great to be able to offer a Power Trail for those that wish to do it. I love the fact that we have a little of everything to offer!

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