Puzzle Cache Help Please

[Dinoprophet]

I could be wrong, but I think the phrase that's confusing the OP:

The information needed to solve a puzzle cache (sometimes called a mystery cache) must be available to the general community and the puzzle should be solvable from the information provided on the cache page

harkens back to when GS banned using downloadables. Obviously most puzzles require outside information that isn't on the listing.

[+dfx]

Going by the OP's question:

 

I thought that the first set of coordinates would point to some clue that would assist, such as a sign or numbers written in marker. Or is that a different type of cache?

 

and the fact that all the info needed is on the cache page, I'm pretty certain that the OP is confusing puzzle caches with multicaches.

 

That was my impression as well. If you look at the one "?" he did, it's more of a multi than a puzzle cache.

 

Generally, in most most cases, the posted coords are irrelevant to the puzzle and to finding the cache. The cases where the coords actually mean something are rare. Even rarer are the cases where there's actually something at that location. In most of those rare cases, the description will tell you so.

Edited August 11, 2011 by dfx

[+niraD]

Others have addressed the issues of publishing solutions, spoilers, etc. online, and some of your basic misconceptions about the nature of puzzle caches. Here are some general tips for solving puzzle caches:

 

A while back, The Rat offered a puzzle-solving class as an event cache. His slides are available here:

http://thegba.net/resources/general_information.php

 

Among the tips he offered:

 

Identify the theme. Check the cache title, the hint, the HTML source, the graphics (including names/URLs), any links (including URLs), whatever is at the posted coordinates, etc. If you can figure out the theme, then you should look for numbering systems that are associated with that theme (zip codes, area codes, telephone keypads, episode numbers, etc.).

 

Around here, coordinates will have 15 digits, and will look like "N 37° xx.xxx W 122° xx.xxx". So when I'm solving a nearby puzzle, I look for a group of 15 things, and then I look for ways to get the digits 37xxxxx122xxxxx from them. In general, I look for ways to get the number 37 (or the digits 3 and 7) from something near the beginning of the puzzle, and the number 122 (or the digits 1, 2, and 2) from something near the middle of the puzzle. (Of course, you'll need to adjust this for the coordinates near you.)

 

Other useful resources include:

Puzzle Solving 101 Series (bookmark list)

Puzzle Shortcuts Series (bookmark list)

Solving Puzzle Caches (online article)

How Do I Solve All These $@! Puzzle Caches? (tutorial-style puzzle cache)

Puzzle FUNdamentals (archived event cache) and the Puzzle FUNdamentals resources on the GeocacheAlaska! education page

The GBA's Puzzle Cache FAQ (for puzzle designers, but useful for understanding how puzzle caches work)

[+niraD]

I could be wrong, but I think the phrase that's confusing the OP:

The information needed to solve a puzzle cache (sometimes called a mystery cache) must be available to the general community and the puzzle should be solvable from the information provided on the cache page

harkens back to when GS banned using downloadables. Obviously most puzzles require outside information that isn't on the listing.

Yep. It says that the puzzle must be solvable from the information provided on the cache page. It does not say that the puzzle must be solvable from ONLY the information provided on the cache page. For some of my favorite puzzle caches, the information on the cache page is just a starting point.

[+The 10/14 Club]

Okay, to be clear, I can create a new puzzle cache, and the only thing in the description is a bunch of names. When you go on a computer, you realize these are football players. So then, you find out each persons jersey numbers. When lined up, they show coordinates. This is acceptable?

[+NeverSummer]

Well done, niraD! That's some help for unknown/mystery caches anyone can take.

[+Panther&Pine]

Okay, to be clear, I can create a new puzzle cache, and the only thing in the description is a bunch of names. When you go on a computer, you realize these are football players. So then, you find out each persons jersey numbers. When lined up, they show coordinates. This is acceptable?

Sure, although you might need to make sure that the players choosen have never used another number.

[+NeverSummer]

Okay, to be clear, I can create a new puzzle cache, and the only thing in the description is a bunch of names. When you go on a computer, you realize these are football players. So then, you find out each persons jersey numbers. When lined up, they show coordinates. This is acceptable?

You bet!

[Pup Patrol]

Okay, to be clear, I can create a new puzzle cache, and the only thing in the description is a bunch of names. When you go on a computer, you realize these are football players. So then, you find out each persons jersey numbers. When lined up, they show coordinates. This is acceptable?

 

Yes, that's right.

 

Sounds like a puzzle even I could solve, using Google or something like it.

[Dinoprophet]

Hey, the cache in question is only about ten miles from me! If it wouldn't take a half hour on these roads, I'd go grab it.

[Pup Patrol]

Going by the OP's question:

 

I thought that the first set of coordinates would point to some clue that would assist, such as a sign or numbers written in marker. Or is that a different type of cache?

 

and the fact that all the info needed is on the cache page, I'm pretty certain that the OP is confusing puzzle caches with multicaches.

 

That was my impression as well. If you look at the one "?" he did, it's more of a multi than a puzzle cache.

 

Generally, in most most cases, the posted coords are irrelevant to the puzzle and to finding the cache. The cases where the coords actually mean something are rare. Even rarer are the cases where there's actually something at that location. In most of those rare cases, the description will tell you so.

 

Yes, I agree that that cache is more of a multicache than a puzzle.

 

Sort of like one of my favourite caches, which is correctly listed a multicache, not a puzzle:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=c51dc93f-bc20-45bf-a40d-7e79e6c563c4

[+niraD]

Okay, to be clear, I can create a new puzzle cache, and the only thing in the description is a bunch of names. When you go on a computer, you realize these are football players. So then, you find out each persons jersey numbers. When lined up, they show coordinates. This is acceptable?

As others have said, yes, this would be perfectly acceptable for a puzzle cache. I've found a number of caches that just had a list of names, or a series of photos, or something like that. The puzzle is to figure out what they have in common, and how you can derive the final coordinates from them.

 

(Or they can be a red herring, and the puzzle can be elsewhere.)

[+Borst68]

Okay, to be clear, I can create a new puzzle cache, and the only thing in the description is a bunch of names. When you go on a computer, you realize these are football players. So then, you find out each persons jersey numbers. When lined up, they show coordinates. This is acceptable?

 

Absolutely!

[+t4e]

According to the rules, a puzzle cache needs to have everything you need to solve it in the description.

 

wrong...it says:

 

Puzzle Caches The cache page provides a puzzle to be solved to generate coordinates for the cache. The information to proceed to solve the puzzle must be on the page.

 

the puzzle itself is the information you need, its your job to figure out what to do with it

 

you expect the CO to give you the tools to solve it?...it wouldn't be a mystery cache in that case

 

have a go at this one

 

Swine Flu - Bacon's Revenge

[+Michaelcycle]

Okay, to be clear, I can create a new puzzle cache, and the only thing in the description is a bunch of names. When you go on a computer, you realize these are football players. So then, you find out each persons jersey numbers. When lined up, they show coordinates. This is acceptable?

 

One of my recent FTFs was exactly that kind of puzzle (E-A-G-L-E-S, EAGLES!!)

[+Bing-GTX]

 

As I said in my previous post, I think you are confusing "puzzle" caches with "multicaches".

 

Multicaches often have the starting coordinates where you will find a clue to the next set of coords, and on and on, etc.

 

Some times, the stages of a multicache will be some information you will need from a signpost or a plaque or perhaps a headstone.

 

Puzzle caches generally need to be solved at home.

 

A common first line of a puzzle cache page is "the cache is not at the posted coordinates".

I am not trying to start an argument but I think that the point made by Pup Patrol quoted above needs to be commented on. While it may or may not be true that the OP was "confusing" "puzzle" caches with "multicaches", it should be noted that they are not necessarily mutually exclusive, a "puzzle" cache can also be a "multicache". For example, Father's Day Series 2008 #2 - Park Art is listed as a "mystery cache" and the description also indicates that it is a "multicache" which requires solving a puzzle in the field to obtain the final coordinates. As others have pointed out the "mystery cache" category allows the creation of a wide range of caches. So rather than being a confusion of two types of caches it may have been merely a misunderstanding of the broad scope that the category mystery caches entails. I have seen mystery caches where the coordinates were correct with no indication of the size of the cache as the mystery (barely a mystery to my way of thinking, but that may be just me), mystery caches with bogus coordinates where any one or more of a number of ciphers, or riddles, or encoding are used to hide the true coordinates, mystery caches where one of the coordinates was correct and the other had to be deduced. In summary, with apologies to the movie "Forrest Gump", Mystery caches are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.