Personal attack in cache log...

[+Lorri-Ann & Kev]

Well Paul all I can say is we love your trails and our dog Abbey loves them too

So please keep doing them and they are not just chucked in the hedge they are pleasant walks.

So thank you

[+spindlewood]

Some like numbers, some like good walks, we happen to like both and the numerous 'poshrule' series have provided us with just that! Keep up the good work Paul, take notice of the number of cachers that are completing your series and the positive things they have said about them. You will never be able please every cacher whatever you do, so don’t feel that you have to. Unfortunately criticism often weighs heavier than praise.

[+bones1]

Poshrule, his caches are a breath of fresh air to the countryside, superb walks,well thought out placements and well prepared caches, what more could cachers ever want.it cant be about the numbers as far as im concerned any more just the pure enjoyment of caching that poshrule has reawakened in many cachers thay i have spoken to,a top cache setter as far as we are concerned. patandjeff=bones1,and alot of time accompanied by the corgis,sali and george.

[+TelemachusGB]

This has certainly been instructive. As well as the thread drift into issues of RoW, I have seen a broad spectrum of interest and participation in the geocaching experience. It is clear that many of you do enjoy these high density trails (let's avoid "power trails") and so posh is clearly doing a work you value.

 

It does not deal with the issue of saturation and homogoneity that I and others have alluded to. Thankfully the potential concern about maintenance has not yet raised its head and I take my hat off to posh for keeping on top of them.

 

My cache note was borne out of frustration that personal communication had not changed a behaviour I percieved to be irresponsible. However, the charge levelled at me by OMUK is that it was a personal attack made without personal communication. On both counts he is wrong and the title of this thread is particularly aggressive. He could have expressed his concern to me in a PM after all...

[+Happy Humphrey]

My cache note was borne out of frustration that personal communication had not changed a behaviour I percieved to be irresponsible.

Perhaps now you know that a lot (perhaps even the majority) of cachers find such trails far from "irresponsible", but enjoy them quite a bit, you'll be less inclined to put forward your own opinion in such an arrogant manner. Obviously you don't like long countryside walks that take in a number of caches, and that's fine, but many people do. That's just your personal preference and shouldn't be enforced on others.

 

If there are cache series that are truly dull and repetitive then they'll eventually die out through lack of enthusiasm. Just let it happen naturally. Considering the amount of support given to poshrule in this thread, I don't believe that the cache series you picked out is genuinely one of these dull and repetitive trails anyway so I'm not sure why you've highlighted it like this. Mind you, it's publicised the CO and his cache trails very well!

[+Icenians]

Obviously you don't like long countryside walks that take in a number of caches, and that's fine, but many people do. That's just your personal preference and shouldn't be enforced on others.

 

And yet we must have these endless trails forced upon us it seems.

[+drdick&vick]

Obviously you don't like long countryside walks that take in a number of caches, and that's fine, but many people do. That's just your personal preference and shouldn't be enforced on others.

 

And yet we must have these endless trails forced upon us it seems.

 

Nothing in the rules that forces you do go out and do them though.

I don't like walks over 4 miles due to my knees but I don't have a moan becasue someone makes their series a 6 mile circular, I just don't do the series.

Same goes if there is a single cache at the end of a 3 mile walk out and then 3 miles back, I simply don't go out and do it.

It seems that these days there is just no way of pleasing everybody, so why don't we all just go and find the caches that we want to and stop moaning about the ones we don't want to find.

[+Fianccetto]

<snip>

 

It does not deal with the issue of saturation and homogoneity that I and others have alluded to.

 

Earlier, I did start writing a long reply which included a bit about this, but edited it out in case the drift off topic had put you off. In terms of saturation, this cache has been put in an area where only one cache has been placed so far, and poshrule incorporates it in his Buckworth series and suggests people go to it on the way to the second cache of the series.

 

If you look at other cache circuits he's placed previously, where there were more caches already in place, you can see how saturation isn't really an issue. For instance, look at the Nassington Nobble, about 18 miles north. That one incorporates caches in a 'Thomas and Friends' series which could take you off on a train ride instead of caching, a level 5 difficulty cache which some cachers spot while on poshrule's trail and do because he brought them to the area and they could see what it was like, a Nene Way cache (with the option of leaving the Nassington Nobble walk and following the river instead) a Just Northamptonshire cache (one of many set as park and grabs on the border of the county) and it is set near/around the site of an old WWII air base, so has some historic interest and significance. My husband was particularly interested in the structures that remain around there. Then there are also puzzle caches, woodland caches, some of the Northant's Alphanumeric series, off yer trolley and phone box park and grab caches and village caches with historic interest. Something for everyone, given the landscape is almost as flat as the fens!

 

I don't know the area around Buckworth as well, but I should imagine there will be just as many interesting features to highlight with a cache if someone takes the trouble. (We also used to live in St Ives near Bar Hill and I'm pleasantly surprised at the variety of caches around there, given the most 'interesting' events usually reported were the accidents on the A14.) It just needs a few more cachers in the area to set the caches, and perhaps having poshrule's walk highlighted will encourage a few more cache setters to have a go at doing things their own way, or go ahead with something they've had planned for a while. Hope so!

Edited August 4, 2011 by Fianccetto

[+Mad H@ter]

Obviously you don't like long countryside walks that take in a number of caches, and that's fine, but many people do. That's just your personal preference and shouldn't be enforced on others.

 

And yet we must have these endless trails forced upon us it seems.

Just walk to the furthest cache on the trail and back again, missing out the rest, perfect solution and now everyone is happy

[+Happy Humphrey]

Obviously you don't like long countryside walks that take in a number of caches, and that's fine, but many people do. That's just your personal preference and shouldn't be enforced on others.

 

And yet we must have these endless trails forced upon us it seems.

As the more logical have pointed out, such trails are not "forced" on you. They exist where before there was blank space. If you ignore them there's still blank space there.

 

There's a very weak argument that you might have wanted to place a cache near one of the trail caches and now you have to arrange this with the cache owner. There's a feeble complaint that it's difficult to ignore such trails. That's all it amounts to; a little potential inconvenience.

 

There's a very strong argument that a lot of people find these trails a very enjoyable and valuable part of the geocaching experience. In view of this imbalance why not agree to live and let live?

 

Perhaps you have an example of a genuine "power trail" that I might agree is taking it too far? The poshrule example seems to have been counter-productive in this debate.

[+Icenians]

I'm really starting to think people simply cannot read on these forums. This is about 500 caches of the same type in a small area. It isn't about me not wanting to walk short distances, long distances, do 1 cahe or 100 caches.

 

I give up!

[+dfx]

Without having read the entire thread (and without being from the UK), I can reply to the OP only that Groundspeak, despite what's written in their own guidelines and despite "quality" supposedly being their focus for this year, doesn't only seem to sanction mindless mega-powertrails, but even seems to encourage them. So in light of this, I think it's a lost cause.

[+OMUK]

Without having read the entire thread (and without being from the UK), I can reply to the OP only that Groundspeak, despite what's written in their own guidelines and despite "quality" supposedly being their focus for this year, doesn't only seem to sanction mindless mega-powertrails, but even seems to encourage them. So in light of this, I think it's a lost cause.

 

I think we've established that the caches in question are not "Power Trails".

[+Fianccetto]

I'm really starting to think people simply cannot read on these forums. This is about 500 caches of the same type in a small area. It isn't about me not wanting to walk short distances, long distances, do 1 cahe or 100 caches.

 

I give up!

 

Not all the same type:

not all the same size, not all of the caches are in circuits, he's placed a wide variety of traditional caches. (traditional caches are most popular to hide, and most popular to find, you'll have to do better if you want to change that overall statistic.)

 

Not in a small area:

 

I've already mentioned that Nassington Nobble is over 18 miles north of Buckworth, these cache rings are fairly spread out, and there are others, set by other cachers or groups of cachers, as well as many more different types of caches of varied types and styles. The area is still not saturated.

 

So what if he hasn't set a puzzle cache, or a multi or an Event? If he wants to leave that for others, there is no harm in it, and there is plenty of room for more caches in and around these cache circles.

[+Happy Humphrey]

I'm really starting to think people simply cannot read on these forums. This is about 500 caches of the same type in a small area. It isn't about me not wanting to walk short distances, long distances, do 1 cahe or 100 caches.

 

I give up!

If you'd taken the trouble to read my post, you'd see that I asked for an example of a power trail. We've established that the poshrule caches are nothing like power trails.

But I guess you just want to moan, so you'd rather ignore what I said. I give up!

[+mcwomble]

Isn't that why there are other listing sites? So the heavy concentrations of one become the empty wilderness of the other.

 

As for quality vs quantity - isn't that why Terracaching came into being - for those hearkening back to the good old days of caching being a semi-secretive and geeky hobby before it became mainstream.

Certainly the website interface is suitably geeky and unintuitive enough to scare off the casual user.

 

But then we all play the game to our own set of rules don't we?

[+Geocass&Andy750x]

If you'd taken the trouble to read my post, you'd see that I asked for an example of a power trail. We've established that the poshrule caches are nothing like power trails.

But I guess you just want to moan, so you'd rather ignore what I said. I give up!

 

Totally agree...

 

I really do think that "Power trails" are a US thing and a US term. I don't think it applies to the UK and some are confusing "Long circular Geocache walks" with power trails. The ET highway was and will be a power trail. The organisers admit it. ~1500 caches over ~90 miles driving. That is a TRUE power trail. 20 caches over 4 miles walking is not! Until the original ET series was archived, it also brought great tourism and money to the empty area where it was placed (along a highway in the Nevada desert). Many businesses (motels, restaurants, etc.) noticed a raise in profits when the series was created and slump in profits when the series was archived. The organisers are re-creating the series and the businesses are delighted. A fine example of Geocaching helping an area.

 

Posh's trails are all in an area where there was pretty much nothing. When doing them we've stopped off at local shops, drunk and eaten at local pubs and I'm sure many other cachers have done too. I know of some cachers who have pitched tent or stayed for a few days in the area to do the caches. It's all good and the local businesses benefit from them in the area!

[+Foinavon]

I don't like big trails (whether you precede them with the word "power" or not is completely irrelevant). Those of you who know me know that its a subject I have debated quite a lot (in the early days on here, and quite lot on my local regional forum). What I am talking about now is in general. I don't know the caches that are referred to in the first post. I don't even know what part of the country they are in. As I say its a topic that has been well discussed down the years and if I placed a cache for every "If you don't like them don't do them" or "Everyone plays the game in their own way" response that I have had then I could set the mother of all power trails!

 

Despite all this I have never advocated that people don't set them or don't do them because I know that many people like them. The problem I have is that I can't ignore them. Its not a feeble complaint at all (as one previous poster said). A figure of 500 was mentioned. That's a half a pocket query! Your PQ's are clogged up with caches you will never do. If you don't like puzzles, multis etc simple ignore them. You can't do that with trails. If you are not a numbers person who goes and gets every cache regardless then all you want to do is target caches on the maps that you think you will like. Its particularly true for me because I don't have much time to go caching. With so many crammed into a small space its hard to pick out the ones you like. It takes time. Its more than a "little inconvenience".

 

As I say though I have never asked (as some people have done on the feedback system) for a "no power trail" rule to be introduced. What I really really would like is for an attribute to identify them. Then I can filter them out. But of course its a win win situation because those of you who like them can filter them in exclusively. You can go off and whack up those numbers to your hearts content. Regrettably its been suggested and rejected. But if anyone from Groundspeak had a change of heart then you'd never hear a word of complaint from me on this subject again.

 

There's another somewhat annoying thing about some of them (which I gather doesn't apply to the caches in question as they were placed in a "blank space"). But imagine you have had a cache that you placed years ago. Its gets found about once a month but usually gets good logs. Suddenly a big trail appears nearby. Now you get emails every day saying "found 17/43 on the such and such trail". But its not part of the trail and never has been. Its rather annoying. There's not much you can do about it apart from asking people not to log individual caches as though they were part of the trail, it doesn't have to be a long log, just something different, otherwise the trail becomes the Borg of Geocaching world! I know one well respected cacher (someone who likes trails and has frequently disagreed with myself in the great trail debate) who is considering archiving a great many of his caches for this very reason.

 

Anyway that's my two penneth worth!

[+eusty]

First up I love trails, I did the first of poshrule's last weekend, and plan to do another one this weekend A nice walk with some caches on the way...it's that the way it's supposed to be?

 

It's the first time I've had an email from a CO to say thank you, plus we couldn't find the last one of the series, but neither did the next couple of cachers...there was a log from Paul a day or so later stating that the cache was still there...well looked after

 

I think there maybe more to this than TelemachusGB's supposed hatred of trails...if you check his found caches he has done quite a few of them...so why complain about poshrule's?

 

[+Bear and Ragged]

 

There's another somewhat annoying thing about some of them (which I gather doesn't apply to the caches in question as they were placed in a "blank space"). But imagine you have had a cache that you placed years ago. Its gets found about once a month but usually gets good logs. Suddenly a big trail appears nearby. Now you get emails every day saying "found 17/43 on the such and such trail". But its not part of the trail and never has been. Its rather annoying. There's not much you can do about it apart from asking people not to log individual caches as though they were part of the trail, it doesn't have to be a long log, just something different, otherwise the trail becomes the Borg of Geocaching world! I know one well respected cacher (someone who likes trails and has frequently disagreed with myself in the great trail debate) who is considering archiving a great many of his caches for this very reason.

 

 

"Hide the type of cache you like to find"

 

... Then have someone come along and change it.

[+Icenians]

I'm really starting to think people simply cannot read on these forums. This is about 500 caches of the same type in a small area. It isn't about me not wanting to walk short distances, long distances, do 1 cahe or 100 caches.

 

I give up!

If you'd taken the trouble to read my post, you'd see that I asked for an example of a power trail. We've established that the poshrule caches are nothing like power trails.

But I guess you just want to moan, so you'd rather ignore what I said. I give up!

 

I had taken the trouble to read your post,nand then choose to ignore it. My reply was more in general to the numerous suggestions I should simply ignore the caches or skip every other one as if that was a solution to 500 caches from one cacher.. I'm not going to do the caches because they are not what I enjoy so whether they sit on my map or not, something I simply don't look at, is neither here nor there.

 

I feel that 500 caches that are not particularly good, that of course being subjective, in on area by one cacher is simply greedy and selfish.

[+Legochugglers]

I'm really starting to think people simply cannot read on these forums. This is about 500 caches of the same type in a small area. It isn't about me not wanting to walk short distances, long distances, do 1 cahe or 100 caches.

 

I give up!

If you'd taken the trouble to read my post, you'd see that I asked for an example of a power trail. We've established that the poshrule caches are nothing like power trails.

But I guess you just want to moan, so you'd rather ignore what I said. I give up!

 

I had taken the trouble to read your post,nand then choose to ignore it. My reply was more in general to the numerous suggestions I should simply ignore the caches or skip every other one as if that was a solution to 500 caches from one cacher.. I'm not going to do the caches because they are not what I enjoy so whether they sit on my map or not, something I simply don't look at, is neither here nor there.

 

I feel that 500 caches that are not particularly good, that of course being subjective, in on area by one cacher is simply greedy and selfish.

[+Legochugglers]

I am not sure that you can even take a subjective view because I am not sure that you have even done any of the caches in question.

 

Why say they are no good when you dont appear to have done them yourself and a large amount of feedback on this forum suggests that the majority enjoy them.

 

You are claiming that the CO is selfish and greedy - a bold statement about a CO who seems to really care about the caches he puts out and clearly puts a lot of work into maintaining them. I would love to hear from a cacher in that area who feels put out and upset that the CO has set up these series because they wanted to do it themselves specifically in that area.

[+NattyBooshka]

I have several local circulars that I save for my personal challenges... Next is 100 days of caching. I plan to do these trails one cache at a time on days when real life gets in the way, so I'm pleased that they are there.

 

On a regular day I'd prefer a multi... But not enough cachers out there do them, so they're not placed too often.

 

I remember when we had to justify a virtual in that we had to explain why it couldn't have a physical cache. Maybe GS could listen to those masses that hate trails ane set a limit for caches in a trail before justification is needed to not place a multi?