Reviewers

[The Stragglers]

Just wondering as I have got off on the wrong foot with mine.

This was my first cache and I did everything by the book, but the reviewer picked up on something, which wasn't an issue.

She went off on one and gave me a lecture and suspended the cache.

I replied as best as I could, to explain what was really there and not what she thought.

My cache has now been published but also got a snotty e mail, saying that there was no need for me to be angry with her etc etc (another lecture)

and I had changed wording, when SHE hadn't asked me too

I feel well and truly told off, for no reason.

If I have to deal with this person everytime I want to hide a cache, I feel its no fun and whats the point.

 

Yes I know perhaps some people don't get it right first time, but my experience of this has now put me off doing anymore.

[+palmetto]

Hello masoner,

 

I think you've gotten off on a bit of wrong foot. I'm going to gently restate what happened, as I see it, from a reviewer perspective, after reading the notes.

 

1) you submitted a cache, it had some language that cache caused the reviewer concern.

 

2) she posted a note, using something that I'd guess is a "cut-and-paste" bit, because she uses it often enough to save it. She wasn't meaning to lecture, but to explain why the language she questioned matters.

 

3) she disabled ("suspended") the cache, telling you how to respond to her question. This is a standard procedure for reviewer, not something punitive directed at you personally.

 

4) you responded briefly and clarified

 

5) then you realized you needed to enable the cache (well done, by the way, VERY often this part is overlooked)

 

6) then you responded again at more length

 

7) she read your explanations and posted a new reviewer log, requesting that you keep down your anger directed at her

 

8) she published your cache.

 

You can keep on submitting caches. It's quite unlikely that she remembers this exchange, it's one among many in a month's work. Please, try not to take things quite so personally.

 

Thank you for adding to the fun with a new geocache!

Edited July 30, 2011 by palmetto

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

I think being a reviewer would be a bit stressful at times. They have to interact with cachers, new and veteran, and make sure all guidelines are followed. I have had great experiences with my local reviewer, and had to correct issues before my caches were published. She knows her stuff and provides awesome feedback and advice. Don't take it as a lecture but as the reviewer doing their job and informing you of the rules. There's no reason to get angry or say unkind words to anyone.

 

Yes, it can be frustrating trying to get a cache published. But after a few you'll get to understand the guidelines, and get to know your reviewer. It's team work to get a cache published.

 

As Palmetto stated, the reviewer probably doesn't hold any grudge as they deal with so many cachers. I'm sure even Palmetto doesn't remember rejecting my first cache (with good reason)!

[+Markwell]

The hardest part about the written language is that it's so easy to misunderstand tone. I think that may have been the issue here.

I usually make this point in communication classes by considering the phrase "I didn't say you were stupid" (mind you that phrase is NOT directed at the poster. That phrase can take on very different meanings depending on the vocal inflection of any of the words:

 

I didn't say you were stupid. (But someone else did)

I didn't say you were stupid. (But I might now)

I didn't say you were stupid. (But I might have thought it)

I didn't say you were stupid. (But I might have said someone else is)

I didn't say you were stupid. (But I might have said you ARE)

I didn't say you were stupid. (But there's a whole lot of other adjectives in the language)

Edited July 30, 2011 by Markwell

[+briansnat]

I see nothing in the reviewer notes to you that is snotty or could be considered a "lecture". Granted notes from the reviewer can seem curt and impersonal because they need to write dozens of them in a evening of work, and often resort to cut and paste templates. The notes you received were probably little different from the ones that reviewer and every other reviewer sends every day. If anything you seemed a little defensive and she responded to that. I think you could be reading something into the correspondence that isn't there.

Edited July 30, 2011 by briansnat

[+Ike 13]

The reviewers are there to help. They really do want to see caches published on the first attempt (that makes their job easier). Don't take any remarks they make as rude or directed at you. Instead realize they are trying to educate you on some finer point of the guidelines that may have been overlooked. They do this in hopes to minimize that in the future (which again saves them and you time). Treat them with respect, thank them for their time, and feel free to ask as many questions as you need.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I had a loonngg response drawn up. But, as I am getting smart(er) in my old age... I re-read and deleted it before posting.

In a nutshell, the finished post WOULD HAVE torn the OP apart sentence by quoted sentence. I did not want to do that. Although it was intended to be educational to all, it didn't read that way.

 

I must thank palmetto for filling us in on "the rest of the story"... It points out in no uncertain manner that EVERY coin has two sides. The story told by side 'A' is nearly never the same as side 'B' -- even though it is the same story! Funny how that works!

 

That being said, rather than to carve up the OP (as I had started to), I would simply allow all to read it as they see fit.

 

Is a reviewer's "job" stressful? I think not. I think what people READ INTO what a reviewer's job could be stressful. The job of reviewing/publishing would probably be satisfying -- the help and assistance provided others, while at the same time continuing this recreation that we all enjoy. Easy? No bet on that. No, I would never guess it would be easy or smooth-sailing, either.

 

EDIT: typo

Edited July 30, 2011 by Gitchee-Gummee

[The Stragglers]

I see nothing in the reviewer notes to you that is snotty or could be considered a "lecture". Granted notes from the reviewer can seem curt and impersonal because they need to write dozens of them in a evening of work, and often resort to cut and paste templates. The notes you received were probably little different from the ones that reviewer and every other reviewer sends every day. If anything you seemed a little defensive and she responded to that. I think you could be reading something into the correspondence that isn't there.

[The Stragglers]

Errrm , well actually, I was sent an email saying my replies were angry at her,and I also should not have changed the wording (one word). I did this as this seemed to be causing the confusion. She was pretty rude about this and said that she hadn't told me to change it.

Do I need permission to edit?

She really didn't need to mention it, (well perhaps a thank you)as it was done to help her.

there was nothing wrong with the cache.

Does anyone else know what a camo bag is?

 

Respect works both ways, and I am nothing but polite.

she made the mistake by presuming that all bags are plastic.

Them she went on to quote the rules and regs about bags.

She was wrong, the rules state non use of plastic bags.

If she had just ask me what the bag was made off and left it at that fine.but she didn't she suspended the cache until I was to go and retrieve it, and also did the lecture thing on bags.

It is a fabric bag by the way.

So much confusion because I presumed everyone would know what a camo bag is.

So my fault then I am new

Edited July 30, 2011 by masoner

[+briansnat]

Sorry, but I read her correspondence several times and I don't see it as rude. She was a bit taken aback by your defensive response and said there was no need for your anger and also said that there was no need for you to edit your page because she didn't request it.

 

As far as her disabling the cache, that is a common practice for reivewers. It removes the cache from the queue while any issues are worked out.

 

I'd say if you lighten up and don't get so defensive any future dealings will go smoothly. The reviewer is there to make sure the cache complies with the guidelines and to help. Don't take questions from the reviewer so personally.

[+Chokecherry]

Errrm , well actually, I was sent an email saying my replies were angry at her,and I also should not have changed the wording (one word). I did this as this seemed to be causing the confusion. She was pretty rude about this and said that she hadn't told me to change it.

Do I need permission to edit?

She really didn't need to mention it, (well perhaps a thank you)as it was done to help her.

there was nothing wrong with the cache.

Does anyone else know what a camo bag is?

 

Respect works both ways, and I am nothing but polite.

she made the mistake by presuming that all bags are plastic.

Them she went on to quote the rules and regs about bags.

She was wrong, the rules state non use of plastic bags.

If she had just ask me what the bag was made off and left it at that fine.but she didn't she suspended the cache until I was to go and retrieve it, and also did the lecture thing on bags.

It is a fabric bag by the way.

So much confusion because I presumed everyone would know what a camo bag is.

So my fault then I am new

 

You have to remember that you are just one of many issues she is dealing with. At any point in time she's dealing with numerous new cache submissions as well NA logs and if she's one of hte ones that keeps track of the NM logs on caches or caches that have been disabled over so many months.

 

I don't know what a camo bag is. The handful of caches I've seen that have been in bags of any sort (and the hot mess they become) have led me to blatantly ignore any cache that states it's in a bag. Yours would be no different as a finder to me. It says bag and it's off of my list. Her asking for some more explanation there was hardly rude.

 

If you put out more caches and have to reply back and forth to her just re-read what you wrote before you send it. Make sure it doesn't appear angry. I tend to write in a way that comes off sounding snippy. I'm aware of that and if I'm going to have a conversation that may involve miscommunication I note that on the front end.

 

Reviewers have a bunch of work on their plates and redundant problems between caches. They likely will cut and paste or write shorter and direct notes to you. Easiest way to fix a problem is to come right out and state it.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Errrm , well actually, I was sent an email saying my replies were angry at her,and I also should not have changed the wording (one word). I did this as this seemed to be causing the confusion. She was pretty rude about this and said that she hadn't told me to change it.

Do I need permission to edit?

She really didn't need to mention it, (well perhaps a thank you)as it was done to help her.

there was nothing wrong with the cache.

Does anyone else know what a camo bag is?

 

Respect works both ways, and I am nothing but polite.

she made the mistake by presuming that all bags are plastic.

Them she went on to quote the rules and regs about bags.

She was wrong, the rules state non use of plastic bags.

If she had just ask me what the bag was made off and left it at that fine.but she didn't she suspended the cache until I was to go and retrieve it, and also did the lecture thing on bags.

It is a fabric bag by the way.

So much confusion because I presumed everyone would know what a camo bag is.

So my fault then I am new

 

OK, you made up my mind. I believe everything you say (especially the highlighted item). Not!

[The Stragglers]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

I, as a newbie to this game, have to not take it personally, after all my hard work and expense,and musn't point out any short comings, because I am new, what do I know?

Well I thought I new the difference between a plastic bag and a camo bag.

 

I bow down.

 

I have no issues with being asked a proper question, when trying to get a cache published, but

the way it was done, leaves a lot to be desired.

I am not here to be lectured at.

Pehaps I had better take up knitting.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

This is getting old. I think you should re-evaluate your "perfect-ness".

[+Sapience Trek]

I never heard of a cache bag before, so I would have thought the cache was in a plastic bag as well.

 

I see nothing rude or lecturing in the notes posted on your cache from the reviewer. Cache owners often read things into a note that aren't there. That's perfectly understandable because their cache may be their "baby" and nobody wants their baby called ugly. In this case, the reviewer was just getting some clarifications on the cache.

 

The standard practice many reviewers use after initially reviewing a cache is to disable the cache while waiting for more information or a change to be made. I almost always disable a cache so it no longer appears in the active queue while issues are getting resolved. This isn't a judgement of any sort on your cache, it's just moving it to a different holding area.

 

Please try not to read between the lines, as there often is nothing there. It's just the impersonal nature of the internet that causes some misunderstandings like this.

[The Stragglers]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

This is getting old. I think you should re-evaluate your "perfect-ness".

 

That makes two of us then

Edited July 30, 2011 by masoner

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

...Pehaps I had better take up knitting.

You came here looking for opinions, you got them, both from Reviewers and non.

 

Knitting is usually a solitary affair so it might be, as you suggest, better for you, since social interaction doesn't appear to be your forte.

 

One thing I can tell you is that Groundspeak is very aware of and sensitive to its corporate image, and those who are selected to volunteer as Reviewers are therefore among the nicest and most helpful people you will ever meet.

[The Stragglers]

...Pehaps I had better take up knitting.

You came here looking for opinions, you got them, both from Reviewers and non.

 

Knitting is usually a solitary affair so it might be, as you suggest, better for you, since social interaction doesn't appear to be your forte.

 

One thing I can tell you is that Groundspeak is very aware of and sensitive to its corporate image, and those who are selected to volunteer as Reviewers are therefore among the nicest and most helpful people you will ever meet.

 

really?

[The Stragglers]

...Pehaps I had better take up knitting.

You came here looking for opinions, you got them, both from Reviewers and non.

 

Knitting is usually a solitary affair so it might be, as you suggest, better for you, since social interaction doesn't appear to be your forte.

 

One thing I can tell you is that Groundspeak is very aware of and sensitive to its corporate image, and those who are selected to volunteer as Reviewers are therefore among the nicest and most helpful people you will ever meet.

 

really?

[+zoltig]

I noticed a mild mistake on your cache page. I am sure it is just a typo. It is called "Quiet Ramby" but in the description you have "Ranby". I don't know if that is intentional or not but just wondered.

The reviewers have a lot on their plate and the pay is horrible. Don't take it personally.

[+Too Tall John]

I am not here to be lectured at.

Pehaps I had better take up knitting.

You are not being lectured at. You came into this forum wondering if you got off on the wrong foot with your reviewer. People have offered an opinion, some of them reviewers who have the ability to look at the reviewer notes on your cache page, so they have greater insight into the conversation than others. If you really wanted opinions, take them and use them. If you think that asking for opinions and then getting them is being lectured at, perhaps you would be happier with knitting. Just don't ever ask anyone for any advice on that, or you might have to find yet another hobby.

[+Too Tall John]

...Pehaps I had better take up knitting.

You came here looking for opinions, you got them, both from Reviewers and non.

 

Knitting is usually a solitary affair so it might be, as you suggest, better for you, since social interaction doesn't appear to be your forte.

 

One thing I can tell you is that Groundspeak is very aware of and sensitive to its corporate image, and those who are selected to volunteer as Reviewers are therefore among the nicest and most helpful people you will ever meet.

really?

Yes, really.

[+Panther&Pine]

The Reviewers (at least in my opinion) are right to question something that they don't understand.

It is our responisibility as cachers to make sure that we are making it easy for them to reveiw our caches (give them info upfront, and respond when needed).

 

It is also important to remember that you are not the center of the reveiwer's attention- for good or bad- they are just working their way through the list of caches and as questions come up they ask them. I get the impression that most of them don't pay much attention to the name of the CO when they publish caches (or at least I don't think that AlpineReveiwer or HighCountryAdmin know who I am and I kind of rather it stay that way- at least until I can make sure it is a positive introduction )

 

So, OP my suggestion is sit back, have a beer (if you are old enough to have a beer if not have an ice cream) and wait a day or so before responding. Is geocaching really something to get worked up about?

[4wheelin_fool]

Just wondering as I have got off on the wrong foot with mine.

 

Try the other foot and you'll be fine.

[+GeoBain]

Some people tend to be overly sensitive.

 

I'd suggest the OP go find some caches and perhaps she'll gain a different perspective and realize the reviewer was just doing her job.

[+tozainamboku]

OkayI am getting how it works.Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.I, as a newbie to this game, have to not take it personally, after all my hard work and expense,and musn't point out any short comings, because I am new, what do I know?Well I thought I new the difference between a plastic bag and a camo bag.I bow down.I have no issues with being asked a proper question, when trying to get a cache published, butthe way it was done, leaves a lot to be desired.I am not here to be lectured at.Pehaps I had better take up knitting.

I supposed you can decide to be offended if you like. The reviewers deal with many caches. They have to review what you write in the cache description and determine whether a cache meets the guidelines or not. Often they will see something that isn't certain so the will ask for a clarification. In doing so, they will often disable the cache page. This allows the cache owner to fix the issue on the page or add a reviewer note and then reenable the listing so it shows up back in the reviewer queue. Seems this is what happened. However you may have said something in the reviewer note that the reviewer felt was a personal attack for doing her job. Most reviewers would probably have ignored this and let it go. I don't know why your reviewer decided to send you a separate email.

 

I would say that if you treat your reviewer with respect they will return the favor. Remember that reviewers are human and they may make mistakes. Even if you feel the cache page was clear as to what kind of container you were using, the reviewer may not see this and may ask you to clarify. Simply do so politely instead of attacking the reviewer for not understanding your initial description and you wouldn't have gotten the separate email.

 

If you feel a reviewer is treating you improperly, you can contact Groundspeak to request an appeal. Posting in this forum is likely just going get you a lecture like this one.

[+sword fern]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

I, as a newbie to this game, have to not take it personally, after all my hard work and expense,and musn't point out any short comings, because I am new, what do I know?

Well I thought I new the difference between a plastic bag and a camo bag.

 

I bow down.

 

I have no issues with being asked a proper question, when trying to get a cache published, but

the way it was done, leaves a lot to be desired.

I am not here to be lectured at.

Pehaps I had better take up knitting.

 

Try be in the reviewers shoes. How do you feel?

[+GeoBain]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

I, as a newbie to this game, have to not take it personally, after all my hard work and expense,and musn't point out any short comings, because I am new, what do I know?

Well I thought I new the difference between a plastic bag and a camo bag.

 

I bow down.

 

I have no issues with being asked a proper question, when trying to get a cache published, but

the way it was done, leaves a lot to be desired.

I am not here to be lectured at.

Pehaps I had better take up knitting.

 

Try be in the reviewers shoes. How do you feel?

 

If I were in the reviewer's shoes I'd be holding off publishing the OP's cache until the very last minute. I'd also be posting some snarky response in the forums.

 

Fortunately, Groundspeak chooses more level headed people to be reviewers. These reviewers tend to publish caches without regard to personal feelings. Good thing too. Seems like the reviewer published the OP's cache once the issues were resolved.

 

But isn't it more fun to come to the forums and complain about things? And it's even more fun to complain about people not agreeing with you.

[+RoandJoe]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

This is getting old. I think you should re-evaluate your "perfect-ness".

 

That makes two of us then

 

I've learned this isn't the most welcoming place to post questions. Some of the people here are really nice and some can be downright rude especially if you're a newbie. Some people here are extremely informative but if you feel you're being talked down to, you aren't alone--I actually see it a lot on here. Most of these people have been doing this for a long time and clearly have no patience for someone who is new and not completely understanding of ALL of the rules. I've learned to just do my best to find the answer on my own.

[The Stragglers]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

This is getting old. I think you should re-evaluate your "perfect-ness".

 

That makes two of us then

 

I've learned this isn't the most welcoming place to post questions. Some of the people here are really nice and some can be downright rude especially if you're a newbie. Some people here are extremely informative but if you feel you're being talked down to, you aren't alone--I actually see it a lot on here. Most of these people have been doing this for a long time and clearly have no patience for someone who is new and not completely understanding of ALL of the rules. I've learned to just do my best to find the answer on my own.

[The Stragglers]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

This is getting old. I think you should re-evaluate your "perfect-ness".

 

That makes two of us then

 

I've learned this isn't the most welcoming place to post questions. Some of the people here are really nice and some can be downright rude especially if you're a newbie. Some people here are extremely informative but if you feel you're being talked down to, you aren't alone--I actually see it a lot on here. Most of these people have been doing this for a long time and clearly have no patience for someone who is new and not completely understanding of ALL of the rules. I've learned to just do my best to find the answer on my own.

 

Thank you ROand Joe,

I have realised that I have jumped into a pit of snakes.

I was thinking of asking a moderator to take the post off.

I am a 60 something year old lady who has got very upset today with all of this.

Not because I am not clearly winning the agument, but because the site is so very very rude.In fact it is bordering on bullying.

Yes, am thinking again about the whole idea of geo- caching, good idea but some very wrong people in so many ways.

Anyway, pleased to report a successful find and praise for my cache today, so am happy with that.

If a mod reads this please take the post off...thanks

[+GeoBain]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

This is getting old. I think you should re-evaluate your "perfect-ness".

 

That makes two of us then

 

I've learned this isn't the most welcoming place to post questions. Some of the people here are really nice and some can be downright rude especially if you're a newbie. Some people here are extremely informative but if you feel you're being talked down to, you aren't alone--I actually see it a lot on here. Most of these people have been doing this for a long time and clearly have no patience for someone who is new and not completely understanding of ALL of the rules. I've learned to just do my best to find the answer on my own.

 

And some people get really polite, informative responses and still act offended and defensive and pout and cry.

[jholly]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

This is getting old. I think you should re-evaluate your "perfect-ness".

 

That makes two of us then

 

I've learned this isn't the most welcoming place to post questions. Some of the people here are really nice and some can be downright rude especially if you're a newbie. Some people here are extremely informative but if you feel you're being talked down to, you aren't alone--I actually see it a lot on here. Most of these people have been doing this for a long time and clearly have no patience for someone who is new and not completely understanding of ALL of the rules. I've learned to just do my best to find the answer on my own.

I find it largely depends on the question and how it is asked. There have been countless questions on how long does it take to get my cache approved. Most are answered in a friendly matter-of-fact way, even posting links to the knowledge book articles. If on the other hand if the OP comes here with a major blast about reviewers in general and his in particular and how his cache was not published in 35 seconds, the response tends to be quite a bit different. Probably if I think about it for while I could come up with other examples. If you come here wanting to talk about religion on pieces of paper you better be wearing you nomex undies. Or logging practices. There are some hot button issues and if your initial post is snarky or argumentative your going to get blasted.

[The Stragglers]

Okay

 

I am getting how it works.

Reviewers can be as unhelpful and as rude as they like, even when they have got things totally wrong.

 

This is getting old. I think you should re-evaluate your "perfect-ness".

 

That makes two of us then

 

I've learned this isn't the most welcoming place to post questions. Some of the people here are really nice and some can be downright rude especially if you're a newbie. Some people here are extremely informative but if you feel you're being talked down to, you aren't alone--I actually see it a lot on here. Most of these people have been doing this for a long time and clearly have no patience for someone who is new and not completely understanding of ALL of the rules. I've learned to just do my best to find the answer on my own.

 

Thank you ROand Joe,

I have realised that I have jumped into a pit of snakes.

I was thinking of asking a moderator to take the post off.

I am a 60 something year old lady who has got very upset today with all of this.

Not because I am not clearly winning the agument, but because the site is so very very rude.In fact it is bordering on bullying.

Yes, am thinking again about the whole idea of geo- caching, good idea but some very wrong people in so many ways.

Anyway, pleased to report a successful find and praise for my cache today, so am happy with that.

If a mod reads this please take the topic off...thanks

[+GeoBain]

If a mod reads this please take the topic off...thanks

 

They will not remove it, but if you click the Report button at the bottom of any of the posts and request it be closed, they will lock it so no further comments can be made.

[+BruceS]

Locked at OP's request.