I never thought that I would ever say this...

July 27, 2011

but I have just about reached the point where I am going to stop sending out geocoins into the wild

Too many people - mostly newbies, but certainly not only them - seem unwilling to play the game with courtesy and respect for other people. Not sure if they refuse to read the information provided, or if they just can't do so; considering the state of Education in this country (too many administrators, pointless rules and "Goals", and not enough good teachers), the inability to read could be the problem. Maybe that's why so many people don't even post "TFTC", anymore, but just leave things blank.

Whatever the reason, I've about had it with people who now pick up Travelers and then put them in other caches without logging them at all. It's happening more and more; at least three that we dropped of last week are apparently in this boat. When I write to the cachers who have done this, they get all snotty and chide me with, "Chill out; it's just a game," as if that excuses their bad behavior. Games have Rules, and for good reason. Please follow them, or find a different game to play.

Anyway, I needed to vent. I've been able to handle the occasional muggling of a geocoin or TB, or the acts of Mother Nature, or even the geocoin thieves that plague us. I can understand all of those, but this last bit of disdain for Fair Play and Decency has really gotten to me :angry:

I've not posted to this forum much in the past year or so, and I really hate for this attitude of mine to be the reason for breaking my silence; I'd rather it was over something really neat But I bet I'm not alone in my disgruntlement.

Jim, the other half of chaosmanor

Edited July 27, 2011 by Eartha

4.2k · July 27, 2011

that didn't quite work the way it was intended

4.2k · July 27, 2011

Games have Rules, and for good reason. Please follow them, or find a different game to play.

well actually its guidelines, not rules...but i know what you mean

Anyway, I needed to vent. I've been able to handle the occasional muggling of a geocoin or TB, or the acts of Mother Nature, or even the geocoin thieves that plague us. I can understand all of those, but this last bit of disdain for Fair Play and Decency has really gotten to me

yes, been there...the excitement at first, followed by disappointment...some from logging mistakes, some from the trinket i originally attached being substituted with something totally unrelated and the list goes on

however a bit more excitement followed when a couple of trackables that i thought were missing, suddenly appeared after 2 years

but i never released any more

July 27, 2011

but I have just about reached the point where I am going to stop sending out geocoins into the wild

Too many people - mostly newbies, but certainly not only them - seem unwilling to play the game with courtesy and respect for other people. Not sure if they refuse to read the information provided, or if they just can't do so; considering the state of Education in this country (too many administrators, pointless rules and "Goals", and not enough good teachers), the inability to read could be the problem. Maybe that's why so many people don't even post "TFTC", anymore, but just leave things blank.

Whatever the reason, I've about had it with people who now pick up Travelers and then put them in other caches without logging them at all. It's happening more and more; at least three that we dropped of last week are apparently in this boat. When I write to the cachers who have done this, they get all snotty and chide me with, "Chill out; it's just a game," as if that excuses their bad behavior. Games have Rules, and for good reason. Please follow them, or find a different game to play.

Anyway, I needed to vent. I've been able to handle the occasional muggling of a geocoin or TB, or the acts of Mother Nature, or even the geocoin thieves that plague us. I can understand all of those, but this last bit of disdain for Fair Play and Decency has really gotten to me

I've not posted to this forum much in the past year or so, and I really hate for this attitude of mine to be the reason for breaking my silence; I'd rather it was over something really neat But I bet I'm not alone in my disgruntlement.

Jim, the other half of chaosmanor

<Sorry to spoil your vent, but even though I feel your pain, I had to edit the subtitle - Eartha -Volunteer Groundspeak Forum Moderator>

Jim,

I totally understand... I put a lot of coins into the wild and too many end up in peoples caching bags...

Eartha actually marked one of my travelers missing this week... so I guess its time to put that "Stolen Geocoin" banner on its trackable page.

Feeling your pain!!

3.6k · July 27, 2011

Hey Jim, to hear this rant from you means things have gotten really bad out there. You're right, you're the last person I'd expect to hear this rant from as you've been the most tolerant and easy going coiner I've been acquainted with. I stopped dropping coins a couple of years ago after a few too many of those rude emails from folks who didn't give a darn about the coin they picked up with such enthusiasm. I guess it was entitlement more than enthusiasm. Anyway I was amused to hear your rant. Hope all is otherwise honky dory with you guys down there. Sorry to hear one of the nicest and most prolific coin releasers debating or choosing to hang it up.

July 27, 2011

Not really glad to read this but a little relieved......here in Europe it's the same unfortunally.

Not only trackable disappointments but also the (new) cache quality disappointments.

But geocaching is like the real world....some day the system might collapse.

Dollar, Euro, geocoin.....nothing is save anymore :unsure:

Good news.....in a few days I go on holiday......geocaching of course :anibad:

July 27, 2011

I know of what you speak (or rant) about! I too have given up sending out TB's & Geocoins, after losing them in their maiden caches. I also try to contact the cacher who was the next to visit the cache, and most of the time they don't respond, so that pretty much enforces, to me, they probably took it. I make proxies of some of my Geocoins and only place them in caches that have a unique theme or are a challenging puzzle or multi cache. I don't understand why people want an activated geocoin. They are not worth anything and they'll probably just end up in a drawer someplace. I never keep people's trackables, I'm happy when I find one and quickly move it on. I make sure to research a cache, before I place someone else's traveler in it, in case it has a coin thief watching it. If I see a bunch of missing coins in the Trackables History, of a cache, I won't drop a traveler there. It does take extra time, but I'd hope someone else will show me the same courtesy.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Untied_ShoeLaces

July 27, 2011

I hear you, and feel your pain, man. Of the 7 coins I set out, 6 appear to have gone missing, and most didn't move at all.

Not tossing any more money out the window. I'd sell the coins I've collected, if I hadn't been dumb, and activated them already

1.7k · July 27, 2011

I hear you, and feel your pain, man. Of the 7 coins I set out, 6 appear to have gone missing, and most didn't move at all.

Not tossing any more money out the window. I'd sell the coins I've collected, if I hadn't been dumb, and activated them already

You can take the activated coins to events for people to discover. Lots of people enjoy this and it is a win/win. They get to see your coins and collect the icon in their stats, you get to show off your coins and keep them safe.

Just be on alert at events and stay close to them, I have heard of coins being swiped at events though it is - thankfully - rare.

July 27, 2011

On the brighter side...

I released a "Butterfly Kisses" Stained glass in July 2009 and its just made it to Germany. Its traveled over 11000 miles now Butterfly Kisses Geocoin

~J

Edited July 27, 2011 by GeocoinGuy

July 27, 2011

I hear you, and feel your pain, man. Of the 7 coins I set out, 6 appear to have gone missing, and most didn't move at all.

Not tossing any more money out the window. I'd sell the coins I've collected, if I hadn't been dumb, and activated them already

There are people that will still buy activated coins. Usually they're a little cheaper but if it's a coin they want they will still buy it. You just have to adopt it over once it's sold. I have several activated ones that I've collected because I liked the coin. If I have the choice between activated or not I would obviously go unactivated, but in the end Doesn't matter to me if it's activated or not if I like the coin.

8.1k · July 27, 2011

ever the reason, I've about had it with people who now pick up Travelers and then put them in other caches without logging them at all. It's happening more and more; at least three that we dropped of last week are apparently in this boat.

Cup half full, bright side... your coins are moving and not being taken outright. I understand the misery though. We have a travel bug \ coin hoarder (thief) in our area who has by best estimates over 4,000 bugs and coins in his possession... kinda a big, dark, black hole... there is just no reasoning with some people.

7.7k · July 27, 2011

...considering the state of Education in this country (too many administrators, pointless rules and "Goals", and not enough good teachers)...

Games have Rules, and for good reason. Please follow them, or find a different game to play.

Some unintended irony there. My guess is that some of those who moved your coins consider the rules (guidelines) pointless, and others are ignorant.

July 30, 2011

Awww. I'm new to geocaching and was looking at some caches that have slews of TBs listed on their page with none in the cache. I'd wondered why people dont bother to log them.

Found a geocoin in the first cache we found via gps(we've stumbled upon a few before jut out and about in the woods or park). I took pics of it and made sure to look up how to log the coin on the site when I got home. Logged it and then moved it a week or so later and made sure to log that as well.

But its a big downer when there's people that could care less about the "rules/guidelines" knowingly.

7.7k · July 31, 2011

But its a big downer when there's people that could care less about the "rules/guidelines" knowingly.

Not as much as a downer when there's people who would steal the coins. That's the main reason why the travel bug inventory of a cache is usually inaccurate.

Welcome to geocaching (and the forums). Many people have remarked that this (the forums) is the most hostile aspect of geocaching

Edited July 31, 2011 by Chrysalides

July 31, 2011

But its a big downer when there's people that could care less about the "rules/guidelines" knowingly.

Not as much as a downer when there's people who would steal the coins. That's the main reason why the travel bug inventory of a cache is usually inaccurate.

Welcome to geocaching (and the forums). Many people have remarked that this (the forums) is the most hostile aspect of geocaching

Heh thanks. Yeah, the outright stealing is an even bigger downer.

I'm used to all sorts of forums so it's all good.

1.8k · July 31, 2011

If I drop a geocoin in a cache, it is unactivated and meant as a gift. Even so, I've found that people take them and don't even bother to say in their log that they found it.

I should have written down the tracking number and see who activated it (if ever), but I never thought of that.

2.6k · July 31, 2011

If I drop a geocoin in a cache, it is unactivated and meant as a gift. Even so, I've found that people take them and don't even bother to say in their log that they found it.

I should have written down the tracking number and see who activated it (if ever), but I never thought of that.

That's the problem, a lot of inexperienced cachers think those coins are just cool souvenirs that you can trade for...I don't think it's always a case of outright theft, I think some folks just don't know...

3.1k · July 31, 2011

If I drop a geocoin in a cache, it is unactivated and meant as a gift. Even so, I've found that people take them and don't even bother to say in their log that they found it.

I should have written down the tracking number and see who activated it (if ever), but I never thought of that.

That's the problem, a lot of inexperienced cachers think those coins are just cool souvenirs that you can trade for...I don't think it's always a case of outright theft, I think some folks just don't know...

It is the same here in the forums - people don't bother to learn about what they are taking part in and what the rules are - they jump right in without a care in the world. When I first started caching, I read all the stuff you were meant to read on the geocaching.com site. I learnt about the do's and don'ts. And the same with these forums - I read the items pinned at the top (and other documents) to learn what I could and couldn't post about, when I should use an existing thread and when I could/should start a new one.

But these days, many of the new people just rush right in with out reading a word of the guidelines or on etiquette - and many just don't care about it either. And it not just within geocaching/geocoins - I see it everywhere these days. People are getting too used to having everything handed to them on a plate that they won't/don't lift a finger for themselves.

August 1, 2011

I have enjoyed all the responses to my rant, and appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments. There are a few to which I want to reply directly...

Not really glad to read this but a little relieved......here in Europe it's the same unfortunally.

Not only trackable disappointments but also the (new) cache quality disappointments...

FWIW, we have found Europe to be a very friendly place for geocoins and TBs. To my recollection, only two or three have vanished in Europe, and one of those was certainly due to Mother Nature. Every time I see one of our travelers heading to Europe, I smile

As for the quality of many new caches, I can't argue with you. But it's our own fault, really. We don't have to look for urban micro-spew if we hate it. Remember the movie, "Field of Dreams"? This is the opposite tack: "If we don't look for them, they won't hide them anymore."

Hey Jim, to hear this rant from you means things have gotten really bad out there. You're right, you're the last person I'd expect to hear this rant from as you've been the most tolerant and easy going coiner I've been acquainted with...

Hey, Droo, good to hear from you :smile: Thanks for the egoboo; it's nice to know that some people think of me as "tolerant". I try to be, but I'm not as successful as I would like, or even as I was 15-20 years ago. C'est la vie. Speaking of which, things are going well enough, if one ignores most of them :laughing: :rolleyes: Hope you're hanging in there.

On the brighter side...

I released a "Butterfly Kisses" Stained glass in July 2009 and its just made it to Germany. Its traveled over 11000 miles now Butterfly Kisses Geocoin

Don't get me wrong! We have a number of travelers that have been out there for many years and are still moving. At least a couple of dozen have over 20,000 kilometers on them, and at least one has over 70,000 km. One of our geocoins served a "tour of duty" in Iraq and Afghanistan. One was in Japan during that horrendous earthquake earlier this year, and it is still moving around. Overall, things are much better than the bad things, but the bad things have gotten worse over the past couple of years, and I don't see this trend changing, as far too many people either can't be bothered to read the... guidelines, or refuse to follow them.

Let me point out an incident that just happened a few days ago. We took a week's vacation in an area that is fairly cache-rich, with caches in all types of situations: urbans, parks, roadsides, paved and dirt trails, back roads and 4WD "roads". Truly something for everyone. We dropped off about a dozen travelers, three of which were picked up by the same people. Several days after they logged their cache Finds, the travelers were still listed in the caches, so I wrote a note to them, explaining that they should retrieve them when they log the Find. They wrote back a nice reply, saying that they didn't know that, but were happy to comply, and they did. Two of them have since been dropped off. All in all, it was a pleasant experience, but the bottom line is, with over 100 Finds, they didn't know how to handle travelers, because they had not read the guidelines on them, which are very easily accessed. I have no problem with explaining how things work, but I know that this one incident is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, and that worries and bothers me.

ever the reason, I've about had it with people who now pick up Travelers and then put them in other caches without logging them at all. It's happening more and more; at least three that we dropped of last week are apparently in this boat.

Cup half full, bright side... your coins are moving and not being taken outright. I understand the misery though. We have a travel bug \ coin hoarder (thief) in our area who has by best estimates over 4,000 bugs and coins in his possession... kinda a big, dark, black hole... there is just no reasoning with some people.

Well, we have to assume that they are moving. Actually, the case that I mentioned, which you quoted, is the one which I discussed directly above, so it is all working out But there are many cases where the outcome has not been as positive. OTOH, when one of these lost travelers suddenly shows up after months or years of being in Limbo, it's pretty cool. But it would be nice if they never disappeared in the first place.

As for your hoarder, there is one of those about 80 miles from us. Fortunately, we rarely have to deal with him, but a couple of good caching friends of ours in that area have had geocoins vanish from his caches. He loves to set up TB "prisons", then raids them. I have no direct knowledge, but someone I trust says that he has several dozen of the Jeeps in his possession. But he is High-and-Mighty about others following the rules. Not much to do about the guy, except avoid his caches when possible, and never put anything in them if you *do* Find them. He has a terrible reputation, but he's the only one who doesn't realize it.

...considering the state of Education in this country (too many administrators, pointless rules and "Goals", and not enough good teachers)...

Games have Rules, and for good reason. Please follow them, or find a different game to play.

Some unintended irony there. My guess is that some of those who moved your coins consider the rules (guidelines) pointless, and others are ignorant.

Oh, it wasn't unintended. I knew exactly what I was writing. I'm glad that you picked up on it :grin: And I think you are right; there are those who think that the rules/guidelines are pointless, or that they only apply to others, so they ignore those guidelines. If everyone did that, it would be anarchy.

Anyway, thank you to all who responded (you, too, Eartha! I appreciate you cleaning up my act without getting ticked at me); it's good to know that we aren't alone. I suppose that I'll keep sending out geocoins, but I'm not going to be as profligate as I was two or three years ago. We don't have the free cash that we did back then, so I can't buy as many, and many of the newer ones don't have the appeal for me that many of the ones three-four years ago did.

1.2k · August 1, 2011

I think I'm accepting that my Lotus Compass coin is missing. I got it as a present.

I never thought that I would ever say this...

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