Scam warning

[+drsolly]

I don't usually give out advice about computer security, but I now know of this happening twice - once recently to me, and once very recently to another geocacher. That probably means it's commoner than I'd thought. Here's what happens.

 

You get a phone call, and the caller tells you that your computer has something nasty on it. My call was, allegedly, from Microsoft; the other cacher's caller was from another company. They make up some lie about how they got your number. And they're also lying about who they work for. Of course.

 

Actually, it's a cold call, they're just calling numbers at random, and chances are, you've got a computer and it's running Windows. Because that's true of most people.

 

He then proceeded to talk me through starting up my computer, getting on the internet, and accessing their web site, all of which I pretended to do, while making suitable clicking noises to lend verisimilitude to the fiction I was playing for him. When he asked me what I saw on the screen, I asked him what I should be seeing, and then I played that back to him.

 

This went on for a while, until he asked me what serial number I was seeing, and the number I made up for him didn't leave him a happy bunny, but I stuck to my number, and eventually, we parted, with him wishing me luck, and me thanking him for his time.

 

What's actually happening here, is either:

 

Accessing his web site installs malicious software on your computer (yes, just accessing a web site is all it takes, if you're running an operating system and browser with one of the vulnerabilities that they're using). That malicious software might be a keylogger, which would report every keystroke you make back to the bad guys. That includes your paypal password. And your credit card number. And so on. Or it might Zombifie your computer, so that now they can use your computer for anything they want, such as sending out masses of spam.

 

Or

 

He was going to talk me through installing something that would let him fix my "problem". And that would have been malicious software, see above.

 

So, what do you do if someone phones you up and tells you there's a problem with your computer? The easy thing to do is, hang up. Microsoft don't know your phone number. And if they did, they wouldn't waste their money on phoning you. And no-one else is going to care enough about your computer to phone you up. Not Microsoft, not British Telecom, not your ISP, not even me.

 

A more subtle thing to do is like I did; pretend you're doing what they want, but actually you're not even at your computer. Wasting their time makes this scam less profitable. And it's fun to see how long you can keep them going.

 

By the way, I don't use Windows.

[+Planet]

Thanks for the heads up, but I don't take any calls from anyone that isn't a friend or relation, except companies I do business with and pay bills to on a regular basis. I thank them for the call and politely say good bye and hang up.

 

But at work, that's a different story in one situation we had. I get spam phone calls all day long. If it doesn't speak, I start pressing buttons on the phone and sometimes someone comes on, and I press the ol' Shave and a Haircut, Two Bits! and hang up. If a human talks to me, I thank them and always say "Take me off your calling list!". By law, they are supposed to. Sometimes, pressing the buttons gets me a recording saying "You have been removed from our calling list" I don't start with 1, or 0. I use the middle of the keypad so I don't inadvertently agree to something by pressing 1. I hope that always works right.

Well, one day, this guy kept calling trying to sell my boss Viagra. Probably because one day my boss was shopping for a new car lease (a Hummer) and a new front end loader (a Trojan) and he locked up his computer so fast it would make your head spin. So, this calls to sell my boss Viagra and Cialis one too many times and I was read for him. This time I told him my boss did want to speak to him personally, and he could he please call my boss' direct line. I gave him a phone number and thanked him. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when he heard them pick up at that number. "You've reached the Federal Drug Enforcement Agency. How may I direct your call?"

We still get calls from people like that and I have a whole list of phone numbers on a post it note by my desk to give them. The Postal Fraud reporting center, the Local Police Dept, etc... I just chose a lot of numbers from the blue pages that looked good. It's so much fun! We still chuckle about it.

[+FCStech]

I got the same call. The guy told me he was from the Windows Operating System Service Center. So I asked him if he was from Microsoft. No he say he was from the center again. I told him windows was a Microsoft product. This didn't seem to change things for him. Then he went on to explain that my IP address was put out that i had virus or malware going on. I couldn't get him to explain how he linked my IP and phone number together. TO make matters worse for him, his phone had a losey skype connection from India or Pakistan. I hung up on him and he called me back. I kept him on the line for a little while longer but i soon tired of this. It was obvious that the man knew nothing about computers and didn't want to go off of his script. Again I hung up and he didn't call back

[+Original A1]

All well and good but I get called almost daily (sometimes more) by "Microsoft Services" and other companies, asking to speak to someone who had my phone number when I was out of the country for a year between 2002/03 and BT weren't prepared to hold my number until my return. She was kind enough to offer me my number back, since when approximately 50% of my calls are for her. I assume this is because lists have been sold on and bred.

 

It's a major nuisance for me and as I'm both unlisted and ex-directory, I usually ask that they remove her name from their list ("yes, no problem") and point out that they are breaking the law by cold-calling me. Despite swearing blind that they are in Glasgow, the line is too poor to be a mere 50 miles away, and there's not a single Glasgwegian accent amongst them.

 

A couple of weeks ago, I played the Dr Solly game and strung the guy along. He got quite excited when I allegedly did all he said. Then he asked what I saw and I said "Nothing much" and let rip at him. Now, I have taken to answering their "Is that Mrs...?" with "No" and putting the phone down.

 

Seriously though, what on earth can I do, short of changing numbers? That would be an inconvenience I'd rather do without (naturally). I'm half-seriously debating investing in a referee's whistle, but being this country, I'd probably get sued...

 

Ideas?

 

[7rxc]

I had that one last night. They claimed to know all about my computer flaws etc... despite the fact that I'm not listed as having a phone at all. The number is someone else's property and line. Flaws in their argument abounded, but the big problem was that weird echo ( I see above that that was part of Skype? or at least something similar, didn't think it sounded telephone at all). The other big thing was that the very confused caller couldn't decide if she? was talking with me or her coach/trainer. Or in which language. I got them way of track by asking who they were and just how and why they were poking around in my computer to get such information.

And so on. I have warned the owner of the line about the call and to ignore it should she get another. Doesn't know that much about computers, but loves to sidetrack telemarketers... nothing of interest, just small talk that is costing their company money, but enough to hopefully get the poor operator paid for the call... Just finish with "I never do anything or buy anything over the phone or Internet".

 

Any telephone company security staff reading these? My one contribution to this would be... The line this time was not anything to do with me... I have the GC account. She is invisible there. So if it is getting out via some link or other it would be about me and I don't think I have a phone number listed anywhere by me. I just say I don't have one (the truth). There are only one or two places that have the number of hers, and they claim not to release that data. There will be only a narrow window of opportunity for a phone list of any sort. Thus, I agree with the cold calling aspect. Also just because North America has basically banned auto dialing of blocks of numbers, there is no reason to believe it applies to the rest of the world. One possible solution or at least feel good idea... call your phone provider and ask them why, since you have a non business line and pay well for it, do they allow business calls that you did not solicit. Calls you request is one thing, but unsolicited calls is another.

 

Guessing this isn't cache related though... but since there might be a link it may stay. Anyone for FTF on the source?

Doug 7rxc

[+speakers-corner]

All well and good but I get called almost daily (sometimes more) by "Microsoft Services" and other companies, asking to speak to someone who had my phone number when I was out of the country for a year between 2002/03 and BT weren't prepared to hold my number until my return. She was kind enough to offer me my number back, since when approximately 50% of my calls are for her. I assume this is because lists have been sold on and bred.

 

It's a major nuisance for me and as I'm both unlisted and ex-directory, I usually ask that they remove her name from their list ("yes, no problem") and point out that they are breaking the law by cold-calling me. Despite swearing blind that they are in Glasgow, the line is too poor to be a mere 50 miles away, and there's not a single Glasgwegian accent amongst them.

 

A couple of weeks ago, I played the Dr Solly game and strung the guy along. He got quite excited when I allegedly did all he said. Then he asked what I saw and I said "Nothing much" and let rip at him. Now, I have taken to answering their "Is that Mrs...?" with "No" and putting the phone down.

 

Seriously though, what on earth can I do, short of changing numbers? That would be an inconvenience I'd rather do without (naturally). I'm half-seriously debating investing in a referee's whistle, but being this country, I'd probably get sued...

 

Ideas?

 

 

Just put the handset down beside the phone, then every now and then listen in to see if they are still there. Its thier call, its thier money, let them spend it. I do it lots of times.

[I!]

The missus answered a call like that with "I'm sorry but I don't have windows: we live in a cave". The caller started laughing. She stuck to her story. He gave up.

[+Original A1]

The missus answered a call like that with "I'm sorry but I don't have windows: we live in a cave". The caller started laughing. She stuck to her story. He gave up.

Ah yes - I've had the conservatory people trying to sell me one to install on the 2nd floor before.

 

But if I mentioned this story here before, apologies: Years ago (before I'd have been out caching at such an hour) I was cold-called one Sunday at noon, to be informed I'd won a new kitchen. The upshot was I had a guy in here for 2 hours the following Tuesday, having informed him and the company that I had no money. He tried every trick in the book, but for me it's quite easy. If I have no money, I don't buy something, simple as that. I don't possess a credit card. He asked to call his manager and I got all sorts of special deals if I signed up that day. Of course, the real deal was you were to spend £5k on a new kitchen, which, if photographed for a magazine which wasn't in general circulation, might put you in for winning £1k off the overall cost.

 

Some competition. I got a lot of pleasure about sending the guy on his way, having told him and his boss about 10 times that I had no money!

 

[+Original A1]

P.S. Just had them on again.

[+BigBlueEyes]

I got a call yesterday afternoon about a problem on my computer. I listened to what they had to say and then informed them that I work in IT and know that there is no possible way that they could know that there is a problem on my computer. The man still tried to convince me until I said that it is my job to know these things and there is no way they could know, at which point he hung up on me. I don't work in IT and don't know a lot about computers, but it seemed to work! It worked in the evening when they called a second time too!

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

Had the same call... had jolly good fun winding him up and asking how it all worked on a Linux based PC.. he gave up and hung up...

 

However, I've just repaired a machine for a local family who's son has Cerebral Palsy - his Mum was taken in by the exact same scam call. It cost them a small fortune and they ended up with a non booting PC.

 

I work in IT and spotted the scam - however it must be said they do sound very convincing - until you think about what they are saying...

[+t4e]

caller ID works wonders!

[team tisri]

So, what do you do if someone phones you up and tells you there's a problem with your computer? The easy thing to do is, hang up. Microsoft don't know your phone number. And if they did, they wouldn't waste their money on phoning you. And no-one else is going to care enough about your computer to phone you up. Not Microsoft, not British Telecom, not your ISP, not even me.

 

A more subtle thing to do is like I did; pretend you're doing what they want, but actually you're not even at your computer. Wasting their time makes this scam less profitable. And it's fun to see how long you can keep them going.

 

By the way, I don't use Windows.

 

I take a slightly different approach with them. I just let them explain how my computer has been uploading whatever it is, and let them describe the problems in detail while I make the appropriate sounds about how worrying it all is. Usually they ask if I had any idea that it was happening so I tell them I had no idea it was happening and no idea how it could have happened. Sometimes I'll throw in a slightly technical question about the problem just to draw them out a little longer.

 

After a while they ask if I'd like some help solving the problem, and I always say that would be great. So they ask me to go to my computer and make sure it's switched on, at which point I tell them how difficult it will be to do that (this process strings them along for a few more minutes).

 

Sooner or later they ask why it's so difficult to turn my computer on, and then I tell them that I don't actually have a computer. Then there's usually a complete silence for a few seconds, a disbelieving "You don't have a computer?" and they hang up.

[+CathyLesleyMichael]

We've had three of these calls so far. I was almost taken in the first time as we were waiting for a call from PCWorld about a faulty computer. It's fun to play along when you realise what the call is about. I told the second caller they had fixed the computer and I needed to speak to his supervisor as I was very grateful and would like to send him a very generous amount of money. I told the third caller we didn't have a computer but we did have a calculator that was showing 2+2=5 and asked him to put me through to his technical department to see if they could help. Once you veer off their set question/answer list they don't seem to be able to handle the problem.

 

The Guardian has an article at http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/18/phone-scam-india-call-centres

[+drsolly]

I'd guess that the people making these calls are paid *extremely* low per-hour amounts, I'd guess a lot less than $1. And I'm wondering if the seven digit code he wanted me to read out, is something that he uses to claim a bonus.

 

I'd guess that these callers know absolutely nothing about computers, they're just following a script, and if you go off-script, they're lost.

[+NickandAliandEliza]

...........but we did have a calculator that was showing 2+2=5 .....

 

On here making 2 plus 2 equal 5 is quite common.

[+GAZ]

Strange......I've never had one of these calls........mind you, we never answer the 'phone if we don't recognise the number :laughing:

[+sTeamTraen]

Just put the handset down beside the phone, then every now and then listen in to see if they are still there. Its thier call, its thier money, let them spend it. I do it lots of times.

Let me tell you a couple of little secrets:

- They are calling over the Internet. It's not costing them anything.

- Each operator is calling multiple people at once. After all, they don't have to worry about customer satisfaction.

 

The best way to avoid getting this kind of call is to use a call screening device. There are a couple of good ones on the market, in the £80 range IIRC.

[team tisri]

Just put the handset down beside the phone, then every now and then listen in to see if they are still there. Its thier call, its thier money, let them spend it. I do it lots of times.

Let me tell you a couple of little secrets:

- They are calling over the Internet. It's not costing them anything.

- Each operator is calling multiple people at once. After all, they don't have to worry about customer satisfaction.

 

The best way to avoid getting this kind of call is to use a call screening device. There are a couple of good ones on the market, in the £80 range IIRC.

 

I don't really care one way or the other if it costs the calling company. I just figure that for as long as the guy is talking to me and I'm wasting his time (if I've got other things to do I'll either hang up or put the phone on speaker and carry on with what I was doing while letting him rabbit on) then he's not talking to someone who might fall for his scam.

[+The Brat Pack]

Tell them you have an Apple - a Grannie Smith!

[+The Brat Pack]

Tell them you have an Apple - a Grannie Smith!

[+The Brat Pack]

I must be infected too - a double posting!

[+Haggis Hunter]

I've just had one of these calls a few minutes ago. I have reported it to the police and they have asked me to log a complaint on this website - http://actionfraud.org.uk/

[Jamwoo]

I have had a couple of these calls in the past and for the fun of it allow them to talk rubbish at me over the phone, After they have finished reeling off the script sat in front of them I tell the I'm actually a computer science Graduate (which is true) to which there reply is "what, sorry sir I don't understand you" to which I will reply "I'm a computer science graduate I think I would know is something is wrong with my computer" At which point they go on talking rubbish.

Anybody who has ever had a problem with their computer will realise how difficult and expensive it can be to fix so why on earth would "Microsoft" or any other company phone you up and offer to help you out for free!

[+Fianccetto]

Got a call earlier and needed to head out, so interrupted the caller and said that "I object very strongly to these kinds of calls" to "make sure I am on no kind of list" and "make sure that you didn't call here again because as I say I object very strongly" (pause while she starts to say thank you - I interrupt) "I object very strongly and next time I WILL be involving the police." Whatever she's paid, it's not enough to make her want to call me back.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Fianccetto

[+Simply Paul]

Answer any call you don't recognise the number of by saying "Hello" with a bit of an accent. If it's someone you want to talk to, make the noise of clearing your throat and carry on in your own voice. If the person starts giving spiel, launch into an angry reply in a made-up foreign language of your own devising. They hang up on you; must be refreshing for them.

[+drsolly]

I hope everyone knows about the Telephone Preference Service? It's free, and it might stop some calls from legitimate marketing companies. But it doesn't stop unscrupulous types, and apparently surveys are exempt too.

 

http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/

 

Last time I got called by a (genuine) survey company, I complained all the way up to the managing director, who told me that survey companies legally didn't have to use that do-not-call list. So I explained to him that every time a survey company calls me on a do-not-call number, I give deliberately wrong answers, and then explain to the managing director why it's a bad idea, from their point of view, to cold-call people who have expressed a preference for not being cold-called. And that since they don't keep track of what phone number gave what responses (according to their spiel), he won't be able to eliminate my spurious response from his survey.

 

I think I'm on their blacklist now, they haven't called me since.

 

Oh, and I also got blacklisted by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

[+electronflux]

I get these spam/marketing calls every once in a while and when I do I just tell them to hold on a minute. Then I put the phone down and leave it there. The longest time that they've waited is about 20 minutes before they hang up. I've never been called a 2nd time by the same company/spammer number.

[+The Bongtwashes]

 

Oh, and I also got blacklisted by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

How did you manage that? Does it stop them coming to your door?

[+keehotee]

 

Oh, and I also got blacklisted by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

How did you manage that? Does it stop them coming to your door?

 

I've found the mummified goats head hanging from the lintel and the pentagram scrawled on the doorstep do that well enough

 

p.s. also works for double glazing and power company salesmen.

Edited August 11, 2011 by keehotee

[+drsolly]

 

Oh, and I also got blacklisted by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

How did you manage that? Does it stop them coming to your door?

 

I invited him in, and suggested that we study the bible together, because I was puzzled about some aspects of the Noah incident. A careful reading of the text shows that the animals didn't go in two by two, there was fourteen of each type of clean animal. And although it rained for forty days and forty nights, the ark was actually floating around for about 400 days. That's what it says. Read it. Most people don't bother.

 

So next, we calculated the amount of fodder needed for fourteen elephants for 400 days, and got a large number, which made the ark pretty large. And Noah built it, just him and his three sons.

 

So the Jehovahs Witness suggested that maybe this wasn't all *literally* true, maybe it was a bit allegorical or metaphorical. "Ah, I see," I said, "that's very helpful, thanks."

 

The next day, three of them turned up. You see, they *have* to believe that the entire bible is literally true. And I can see why - once you admit that some of it isn't literally true, you're left with having to decide which bits are true and which aren't, and that means that fallible humans have to decide on what is the truth. It destroys the entire foundation of several religions. So, three of them turned up. "We want to study the Noah incident some more."

 

So we did. We all sat down round a table, and got our bibles out, and some pencils, and paper, and this time we debated whether elephants were clean (in which case you need 14) or not (in which case 2 is sufficient). And I introduced hippopotamuses, and giraffes, and horses, and there was much writing of numbers and calculation of fodder, and daily work rates for men building ships, and concern about the provision of provisions for lions and tigers, because they didn't have refrigeration (we assumed) so you'll have to carry live animals for the carnivores, and then fodder for those animals. And we came out of that meeting pretty much split down the middle, half of us (including me) sticking with the view that it had to be literally true because it was in the bible, although a bit worrying about how it could be, but God must have done something miraculous, although it's odd that it wasn't recorded in the bible, and half of us worried that there might have been a bit of stretching going on here.

 

I was expecting that next I'd get a *major* visitation from the full Committee, or whatever it is they have. But no. Sadly, I've been Blacklisted by the jehovah's Witnesses, and I've not seen them since.

[+MartyBartfast]

 

... fourteen elephants ... hippopotamuses, and giraffes, and horses, ... lions and tigers

 

Yeah, but what about the slugs ?

[+Pharisee]

... fourteen elephants ... hippopotamuses, and giraffes, and horses, ... lions and tigers

 

Yeah, but what about the slugs ?

 

Are slugs clean....? if not how long do they live....? If it's less than 400 days what's a viable breeding population to maintain 14 live examples...?

These are all questions that need answering.

[+Fianccetto]

 

... fourteen elephants ... hippopotamuses, and giraffes, and horses, ... lions and tigers

 

Yeah, but what about the slugs ?

I don't think elephants will eat slugs.

[Dave from Glanton]

drsolly - Love that story.

 

On the subject of cold calls, here's a YouTube link that people might enjoy...

[+Fianccetto]

Scam warning.

If somebody knocks on your door today claiming to be a government official and then proceeds to tell you to dance on your doorstep naked. Don't do it! Its a scam!

THEY JUST WANT TO SEE YOU NAKED!

Please pass this on as I don't want anyone else to be a victim of this underhand tactic. I've already fallen for it twice!

Also:

Don't use the new topless car wash in town! You might think those scantily clad women wearing just thongs and heels are good, but they charge a tenner for a shockingly poor clean! My husband went twice on sat, three times on sun and three times since and they have still yet to do a decent job of cleaning the car!

[+firestars]

Unless you regularly call overseas, I am perplexed as to why people bother to have home telephones any more.

 

I have not had one for eight years now due to the cost of having a mobile and the fact it's so cheap.

[+Amberel]

Unless you regularly call overseas, I am perplexed as to why people bother to have home telephones any more.

 

I have not had one for eight years now due to the cost of having a mobile and the fact it's so cheap.

Lots of reasons.

 

Because I'm not certain that putting such relatively high doses of radiation so close to the brain, so often, is a good idea. It may be fine, it may not. I'm not paranoid about it, I just don't see the point of taking an easily avoidable risk. So I use a mobile when a mobile is necessary, a land line when it's not.

 

Because the audio quality on a mobile connection is not consistently high.

 

Because mobile network coverage is patchy - I have coverage in my house most of the time, but it's not very reliable and I have to move the phone away from the computers in my computer room.

 

Because 0845 and similar numbers are very expensive on most mobiles - I try to avoid using such numbers but it's not always possible.

 

Because I can't believe you get unlimited broadband at 16MBPS on your phone at the same price I get it on a landline?

 

Because I run servers at home so I need a decent uplink speed and a fixed IP address.

 

Rgds, Andy

[caffeine1983]

i work in computer security sounds like a pretty common scam ... be careful use your own common sense

[jadenrich2101]

I just answer the phone to these numbers and just leave the phone on the side!....The most annoying thing is when they ring asking for someone else and then when i say "these people dont live here" then there like ohhh well ill talk to you.........I DONT THINK SOOOO bang! phone straight down

[tony and carina]

I usually answer with the words "Duty Officer How can I help?"

When asked who I am I ask how they got this number as it is a secure line in to GCHQ.

They usually hang up pretty quickly.

 

Tony

Edited August 17, 2011 by tony and carina

[+t.a.folk]

A lady has just phoned us to inform us that they had noticed that we had downloaded a virus which was slowing down our hard drive .

She slammed the phone down on us when told we didn't have a computor.

 

We hadn't even told an untruth because, we don't have a computor ,we have three .

[+drsolly]

i work in computer security sounds like a pretty common scam ... be careful use your own common sense

 

What antivirus would you recommend?

[+Pharisee]

i work in computer security sounds like a pretty common scam ... be careful use your own common sense

 

What antivirus would you recommend?

 

AVG

[+MartyBartfast]

i work in computer security sounds like a pretty common scam ... be careful use your own common sense

 

What antivirus would you recommend?

 

Linux

[+t.a.folk]

i work in computer security sounds like a pretty common scam ... be careful use your own common sense

 

What antivirus would you recommend?

 

AVG

and since a spot of bother earlier this year SUPERAntispyware free edition sat in the background .

[team tisri]

i work in computer security sounds like a pretty common scam ... be careful use your own common sense

 

What antivirus would you recommend?

 

AVG

 

Even that won't protect against the fearsome AMISH.F32 virus (see my signature)

[+squirtchy]

And that's why i moved to Apple, My macbook pro does me the job fine

[+Palujia]

I use a similar line to the GCHQ response :-

(in a loud and "official" type voice) "How did you get this number ?" - "This is a secure line" Then partially muffled aside "I'll keep them talking while you start the trace" - then "Got it?" "Good - you can stop talking now as shortly there will be some armed officers calling on you to ascertain how you obtained a classified secure number" Then put the phone down. Seems to work !!!

[+lefthanded99]

For years my response to all cold calls has been the same. At the first opportunity I say "I'm glad you called, I was just thinking about that very problem (subject, whatever). Hold on while I get a pen". Then I go back to watching the TV. How long does it take them to realise I am not coming back? Tying up their time and effort for no return makes this kind of thing less profitable to them.

 

lefthanded99