Rustproofing Altoid Tins

[+niraD]

My experience with beach safes is that the more expensive name-brand ones can hold up very well for years as geocaches, but that the cheap ones break easily, and often don't seal well even when new. And of course, like any other plastic container, they will deteriorate if left exposed to direct sunlight.

[GOF and Bacall]

[+Dgwphotos]

Since I was the one who mentioned that you can use rust resistant primers to rust proof containers, I ought to clarify. I was never implying that Altoid containers could be improved. I was simply saying that you can rust proof something with paint. I have seen ammo cans that rusted, and were difficult to open. A coating of rust resistant primer would likely help protect the can.

[+addisonbr]

For me, if I'm going to guide someone to a container deep in the swamp, I want to avoid, at least as much as possible, any chance of them finding a moldy log. That's why I prefer to set my standards a little higher than splash proof.

I think that makes a lot of sense.

[+Too Tall John]

So, did this come from the avatar suggestion thread in OT? Where'd that go?

[knowschad]

These water wallets can do a decent job at keeping the water out. My mom uses them all the time for scuba. However I have seen them fail in those cases too. But usually the only thing that happens is a few dollars get soaked. As long as they are closed properly and the seal isn't compromised it should hold off rain and other moisture. Once water gets in though its over for anything inside. Which is true for any waterproof or watertight container.

 

As for the altoids tin, I found a bunch on a day of hunting that had varied results. All had a bit of rust, but it really is about the location of the hide that keeps the water out of them and the contents from getting ruined. Perhaps it is time to come up with a small container that has that added "room" inside that a hide-a-key doesn't offer that is great for urban hides.

 

I wonder if they actually work better while diving. Wouldn't the water pressure keep the seal tighter?

 

Normally they are fine while diving and i have worn them up to 80 feet down. Usually they start to leek when the seal gets compromised in some way.

 

That is my point... the water pressure will actually improve the seal (up to a point, anyway).

[+dfx]

That is my point... the water pressure will actually improve the seal (up to a point, anyway).

 

It doesn't work that way, that's what I tried to explain above. If you have a leaky seal, you'll already have water entering the container before the pressure can make any difference.

[knowschad]

That is my point... the water pressure will actually improve the seal (up to a point, anyway).

 

It doesn't work that way, that's what I tried to explain above. If you have a leaky seal, you'll already have water entering the container before the pressure can make any difference.

 

It depends on why the seal is leaky, I'd think. If it is leaky simply because the latch isn't putting enough pressure on the seal to deform it at atmospheric pressure, the water pressure may put more pressure on it. Anyway... not an important enough point to belabor.

[+GeoBain]

The SR-71 leaked fuel on the ground but expanded to become waterproof at supersonic speeds.

 

Not sure how relevant that is, but always thought that was some interesting engineering.

[knowschad]

The SR-71 leaked fuel on the ground but expanded to become waterproof at supersonic speeds.

 

Not sure how relevant that is, but always thought that was some interesting engineering.

When a thread comes up about how to hide a supersonic cache, we will know who to contact. Thank you.

[+John in Valley Forge]

The SR-71 leaked fuel on the ground but expanded to become waterproof at supersonic speeds.

 

Not sure how relevant that is, but always thought that was some interesting engineering.

When a thread comes up about how to hide a supersonic cache, we will know who to contact. Thank you.

 

Given the side debate about water pressure on seals, it seems pretty relevant. And very interesting engineering.

Can you imagine the designer trying to explain it? "Don't worry if it leaks now boss, in a few years, when we get this off the drawing board and into the air, it will expand and stop leaking".

 

 

As far as those "Beach Safes", I have seen them in dollar stores and marine supply houses. The quality of the hinges, seals and latches improves once you leave the dollar store.

I use one of the better ones for the registration paperwork on my boat, something I really want to keep dry.

[GOF and Bacall]

So, did this come from the avatar suggestion thread in OT? Where'd that go?

 

People seem to have lost interest in it. If it had been there I probably would have used it.

[Clan Riffster]

I use one of the better ones for the registration paperwork on my boat

A side note;

I used to have a motor boat, then my sister convinced me to try fishing from some little plastic thing that you gotta paddle everywhere you want to go. From the first redfish I hooked that morning, I was addicted to kayak fishing. My motor boat sat beside the house gathering dust for two years. I told my son I was going to sell it to buy a couple more kayaks, and he got a puppy dog look on his face, so I gave him the title and said "Happy Early Christmas". I kept my registration in a waterproof match container, which hadn't been opened since I stuck it in there 30 months prior. When I opened it up, the registration was wet & icky. Never did figure that one out, as the O-ring looked fine. It just struck me as humorous.

 

On a side, side note;

Now that my son fishes from a kayak, the motor boat in question is gathering dust at his house.

[4wheelin_fool]

It's much cheaper to buy a container designed to be waterproof, rather than spending the time to modify one, or the gas to maintain it.

[knowschad]

It's much cheaper to buy a container designed to be waterproof, rather than spending the time to modify one, or the gas to maintain it.

Every hobby I can think of costs money. Some cost a lot of money. After 7 years, I still haven't figured out why so many people feel that geocaching containers can and should cost nothing or next to nothing!

 

(I am a fan of well-washed peanut butter jars, but that's because they're good, not because they're free).

[4wheelin_fool]

It's much cheaper to buy a container designed to be waterproof, rather than spending the time to modify one, or the gas to maintain it.

Every hobby I can think of costs money. Some cost a lot of money. After 7 years, I still haven't figured out why so many people feel that geocaching containers can and should cost nothing or next to nothing!

 

(I am a fan of well-washed peanut butter jars, but that's because they're good, not because they're free).

So if I fill a Chinese food container with cement and pop a waterproof match container or a small lock n lock in the center, then you won't laugh at it?

[knowschad]

It's much cheaper to buy a container designed to be waterproof, rather than spending the time to modify one, or the gas to maintain it.

Every hobby I can think of costs money. Some cost a lot of money. After 7 years, I still haven't figured out why so many people feel that geocaching containers can and should cost nothing or next to nothing!

 

(I am a fan of well-washed peanut butter jars, but that's because they're good, not because they're free).

So if I fill a Chinese food container with cement and pop a waterproof match container or a small lock n lock in the center, then you won't laugh at it?

 

I won't.

 

However, I will laugh at you until my belly hurts.

[+GrateBear]

Failure from the start! Edited August 5, 2011 by GrateBear

[+GeoBain]

Oh noooooooos. He didn't go there?

[knowschad]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

[+GeoBain]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

 

Oh come on. It's a little funny.

[cb82]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

 

Oh come on. It's a little funny.

 

Not really....

[+Vater_Araignee]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

 

Oh come on. It's a little funny.

 

Not really....

I'm sure that if someone could they would change to that container thinking it was better than Altoids. It doesn't appear to have hinges.

[+GrateBear]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

Ah, come on! It's teflon--can't rust! Great container. And, as someone else pointed out, no hinges.

[+sword fern]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

Ah, come on! It's teflon--can't rust! Great container. And, as someone else pointed out, no hinges.

I think I see one. On the top.

[Clan Riffster]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

 

Oh come on. It's a little funny.

 

Not really....

Sorry. It got a chuckle out of me.

But then, I'm not politically hypersensitive.

I have no qualms against poking fun at the kooks I vote for.

[knowschad]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

 

Oh come on. It's a little funny.

 

Not really....

Sorry. It got a chuckle out of me.

But then, I'm not politically hypersensitive.

I have no qualms against poking fun at the kooks I vote for.

I don't know... perhaps it was just an innocent little poke, and maybe I am too sensitive about such things, but it sure struck me as a way off topic opportunistic political jab.

[+GeoBain]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

 

Oh come on. It's a little funny.

 

Not really....

Sorry. It got a chuckle out of me.

But then, I'm not politically hypersensitive.

I have no qualms against poking fun at the kooks I vote for.

I don't know... perhaps it was just an innocent little poke, and maybe I am too sensitive about such things, but it sure struck me as a way off topic opportunistic political jab.

I think you may have fractured your funny bone. You've put a lot of strain on it lately.

[4wheelin_fool]

Please do NOT make obama hides a FAVORITE!

Edited August 7, 2011 by 4wheelin_fool

[+WRASTRO]

Failure from the start!

 

I am very disappointed that you chose to use this thread for your political agenda. Not funny.

 

Oh come on. It's a little funny.

 

Not really....

Sorry. It got a chuckle out of me.

But then, I'm not politically hypersensitive.

I have no qualms against poking fun at the kooks I vote for.

I don't know... perhaps it was just an innocent little poke, and maybe I am too sensitive about such things, but it sure struck me as a way off topic opportunistic political jab.

I think you may have fractured your funny bone. You've put a lot of strain on it lately.

Well I thought it was funny. But then I do think that most political humour is funny. At least the stuff I see. How can you NOT find stuff about politicians funny? In a sad way of course. The current administration and congress seem to be especially easy targets for humour. Bring it on!

[+Too Tall John]

I heard, that in an effort to revitalize geocaching, Groundspeak is going to be hiring a whole new division to begin waterproofing Altoids Tins. Next, they are going to bail out the film divisions of Kodak and Fuji, another major supplier of cache containers.

[knowschad]

I heard, that in an effort to revitalize geocaching, Groundspeak is going to be hiring a whole new division to begin waterproofing Altoids Tins. Next, they are going to bail out the film divisions of Kodak and Fuji, another major supplier of cache containers.

Funny... I just heard that Garmin has purchased Altoids!

 

 

PS: From the Altoids website FAQ (I'm not making this up):

 

Q: Are Altoids® tins recyclable? A: The tins we use for ALTOIDS® are made from tin plate, which is one of the most recyclable materials used in the manufacturing of packaged goods. The good news about these tins is that they also come in handy as small storage containers for things like nails, coins, paper clips, and buttons to name a few - the possibilities are endless. We've even learned that the tins have been used for more curious purposes - as hand-held works of art, even as an emergency wilderness stove.

 

[+Too Tall John]

I heard, that in an effort to revitalize geocaching, Groundspeak is going to be hiring a whole new division to begin waterproofing Altoids Tins. Next, they are going to bail out the film divisions of Kodak and Fuji, another major supplier of cache containers.

Funny... I just heard that Garmin has purchased Altoids!

 

 

PS: From the Altoids website FAQ (I'm not making this up):

 

Q: Are Altoids® tins recyclable? A: The tins we use for ALTOIDS® are made from tin plate, which is one of the most recyclable materials used in the manufacturing of packaged goods. The good news about these tins is that they also come in handy as small storage containers for things like nails, coins, paper clips, and buttons to name a few - the possibilities are endless. We've even learned that the tins have been used for more curious purposes - as hand-held works of art, even as an emergency wilderness stove.

That's nothin'. How about an Altoids Tin Radio:

[+GeoGeeBee]

I can't find the link right now, but I have seen an entire Amateur Radio station -- transmitter, receiver, antenna matcher, milliwatt meter, audio amplifier -- built in Altoids tins.

[+the4dirtydogs]

Failure from the start!

Had a good laugh when I saw this, but rustproofing an altiods container is even funnier.

Edited August 11, 2011 by the4dirtydogs

[+Ambrosia]

I heard, that in an effort to revitalize geocaching, Groundspeak is going to be hiring a whole new division to begin waterproofing Altoids Tins. Next, they are going to bail out the film divisions of Kodak and Fuji, another major supplier of cache containers.

Funny... I just heard that Garmin has purchased Altoids!

 

 

PS: From the Altoids website FAQ (I'm not making this up):

 

Q: Are Altoids® tins recyclable? A: The tins we use for ALTOIDS® are made from tin plate, which is one of the most recyclable materials used in the manufacturing of packaged goods. The good news about these tins is that they also come in handy as small storage containers for things like nails, coins, paper clips, and buttons to name a few - the possibilities are endless. We've even learned that the tins have been used for more curious purposes - as hand-held works of art, even as an emergency wilderness stove.

What? They haven't found out about caching yet?

[knowschad]

I heard, that in an effort to revitalize geocaching, Groundspeak is going to be hiring a whole new division to begin waterproofing Altoids Tins. Next, they are going to bail out the film divisions of Kodak and Fuji, another major supplier of cache containers.

Funny... I just heard that Garmin has purchased Altoids!

 

 

PS: From the Altoids website FAQ (I'm not making this up):

 

Q: Are Altoids® tins recyclable? A: The tins we use for ALTOIDS® are made from tin plate, which is one of the most recyclable materials used in the manufacturing of packaged goods. The good news about these tins is that they also come in handy as small storage containers for things like nails, coins, paper clips, and buttons to name a few - the possibilities are endless. We've even learned that the tins have been used for more curious purposes - as hand-held works of art, even as an emergency wilderness stove.

What? They haven't found out about caching yet?

 

Its OK... I notified them. They just haven't gotten around to updating their website yet. These things take time.

[knowschad]

Oh oh!

 

http://www.wikihow.c...pty-Altoids-Tin

 

See #8 in the Miscellaneous section.

 

 

 

 

While you are there, scroll down to #25 in that same section:

 

Place a portion of the ashes of a deceased pet into a decorated tin and keep it on display for the memories. You may wish to glue the lid shut in this case, since people are naturally curious about what is in closed boxes.

Edited August 11, 2011 by knowschad

[+addisonbr]

I can't vouch for what the local surf shop stocks, but I order mine from The Waterproof Store. They rate them as "3" on their scale, which is "Waterproof so tight it floats or can handle quick submersions..

That may very well be the difference. I don't know what brand the one my son bought is. It could be a cheap version, or it could be top end. When he bought it, he removed the label. I haven't really checked to see if it has any embossings on it which might indicate a brand. If i remember, i'll check when i get home. I just know it's yellow, constructed of thick plastic, has a rubber gasket, a plastic latch and stainless hinge/latch pins.

 

I would say the rating from the Waterproof Store is pretty accurate, as, in my viewpoint, a container which can only handle quick submissions is splash proof, not waterproof. For me, if I'm going to guide someone to a container deep in the swamp, I want to avoid, at least as much as possible, any chance of them finding a moldy log. That's why I prefer to set my standards a little higher than splash proof. If I were hiding P&Gs, I would be OK with using something like that, if a better container was not available.

As a follow-up, I recently did a round of cache maintenance and visited one of the above-mentioned containers that I've had in place for a while. The insides were far from bone-dry. It was definitely a bit musty-ish. Not damp and wet like a truly compromised container, but neither did it inspire complete confidence. I'll probably continue to use them - they're fine for what I use them for - but they definitely occupy a spot on the ladder below "waterproof".

[+Wes_and_Tara]

Check out GC36M1C

 

The pictures in the logs don't even do it justice. It's hand-painted and super-detailed, with automotive paint.

[knowschad]

Check out GC36M1C

 

The pictures in the logs don't even do it justice. It's hand-painted and super-detailed, with automotive paint.

 

Fun! Worth checking out. Go to the gallery.

[+JohnnyVegas]

Every time this topic comes up, I'm wondering... what's the point in putting time, money and effort into trying to make a container that's not good to begin with better, when it's still not good when you're done with it?

Because many people like me don't like larger caches, and Altoids tins allow for an alternative to Nano's, and Bison Tubes. The only Altoids Tin I found was hidden in a tree, and it was so soaked I didn't want to open it let alone sign it. Disgusting, maybe with rust proof paint that won't happen?

you can get small plastic container at Taps plastics that are larger than nanos but smaller than film canisters. I have never seen an altoids container that has protected a log from getting soaked even when it was in a plastic bag. There are lots of waterproof containers many of them are on e-bay. I just don't see the advantage spending money and time trying to waterproof an altoids tin when a person cah just buy a ready made container.

Edited January 1, 2012 by JohnnyVegas

[+hzoi]

 

I have yet to find one of these in the field that wasn't at least musty and moldy inside, if not full of water.

 

To keep on topic: At least Altoids tins breathe, so if it hasn't rained in the last couple days, they're dry. Rusty as all heck, but dry.

[+Ladybug Kids]

I've owned exactly one Altoids tin cache. I painted it with Rustoleum before setting it out and it lasted quite a few years. When I archived it and retrieved the container it was quite rusty, but it never got wet inside. That's because it was totally sheltered from the elements.

Briansnat's final statement is key. I have three magnetic altoids tins still holding their own in Fairbanks after five to six years of service. One is sheltered by a building overhang and the other two are sheltered by bridge hardware. I didn't hide different containers for the latter because I wanted them to be accessible from the pedestrian walkway since the area under the bridges becomes unaccessible during high ice times of the year.

 

I also have a fourth magnetic altoid tin just outside Denali National Park that has held up for more than six years and is one of the most logged caches in Alaska. Like the others, it is sheltered from the weather and stays dry.

 

All tins received no special treatment except to perhaps paint them flat black or rust brown for camo.

 

I posted the above not to defend the use of altoid tins, but to illustrate that each container should be assessed for its suitability for deployment to a given location. The right container in the right location will last indefinitely.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Ladybug Kids

[Clan Riffster]

I've owned exactly one Altoids tin cache. I painted it with Rustoleum before setting it out and it lasted quite a few years. When I archived it and retrieved the container it was quite rusty, but it never got wet inside. That's because it was totally sheltered from the elements.

Briansnat's final statement is key.

I tested Brian's theory, but my results were less than stellar. I had heard the mantra of, "You can use a crappy container if it is in a place not directly impacted by the elements" repeated numerous times in these forums, but the mantra did not match my own observations in the field. Thinking I must have missed something about all those crappy containers, in protected areas, which had soggy, moldy logs, I decided to see for myself if the theory were true.

 

When I hid my Always Lame cache, i intentionally utilized the poster child of crappy containers, the much maligned black & gray film can, as my container. My local Wally World has lamp posts with skirts that have very little tolerance between the skirt and the pole. The gap is thin enough that a credit card will not fit between them. Add to that the fact that the bolt platform is elevated, and even in a downpour, running water does not touch the bolt platform. What little bit of water does seep through the gap between the skirt and the pole drifts downward, exiting under the bolt platform and under the shirt.

 

After a year, the log was a moldy mess. I replaced it. After another year, the replacement was a moldy mess. I archived it. I've been out at the cache during Tropical Storm Fay. Up until I yanked the skirt up, the bolt platform where the film can rested was dry. Which demonstrates that it was a location protected from the elements. That being the case, why did two logs get wet? Florida does have a butt load of humidity, which could be the culprit... Maybe?

 

Either way, the theory of crappy containers in "protected" areas isn't as flawless as some would like to believe. A crappy container in a protected environment is still crappy. If I were to recreate this hide, I would use a container that has stood the test of time, rather than hoping that the area's protected status would keep things dry.

[+t4e]

 

I have yet to find one of these in the field that wasn't at least musty and moldy inside, if not full of water.

 

 

allow me to not believe that, it is a waterproof container that you can take swimming etc...

 

maybe you found the "fakes" without a seal

 

altoid tins only make good containers in the desert

Edited January 4, 2012 by t4e

[+Ladybug Kids]

why did two logs get wet? Florida does have a butt load of humidity, which could be the culprit...

Cachers opening the container in the rain?

 

A problem we have up here with ammo cans is cachers will open the can while it's snowing, leave the can open while they sign the log, trade swag, etc., and then seal it up, snow and all. That, or they knock snow off the off hanging branches. Come springtime, the snow melts and dampens everything in the container.

[+timothy585]

Edited to add - Nevermind, I just noticed you can only buy these items in bulk, oh well.

 

Various models...the threaded aluminum ones at the bottom look pretty interesting...

 

Link to various small metal tins...

 

Edited January 4, 2012 by timothy585

[NEwhere]

Groundspeak should be listening to what Coldgear said. There is a need for a quality container of about the size of an Altoid tin.

 

You mean like those?

 

 

And what does Groundspeak have to do with that?

 

Those are bigger than an Altoids. In fact, they are big enough to fit an Altoids container in them.

 

Knowschad was suggesting that Groundspeak could sell such a container at ShopGroundspeak.

The pictured container will not contain an altoids tin, they hold ID's the size of credit cards, and can hold about 10 credit cards.

[+addisonbr]

Those are bigger than an Altoids. In fact, they are big enough to fit an Altoids container in them.

 

Knowschad was suggesting that Groundspeak could sell such a container at ShopGroundspeak.

The pictured container will not contain an altoids tin, they hold ID's the size of credit cards, and can hold about 10 credit cards.

Some of the confusion comes from the fact that the same general style is available in two sizes. The size pictured indeed can accommodate a few credit cards. There is also a similar container that is big enough to accommodate a small wallet. I use the wallet-size containers often, because their transparency makes them a bit more appropriate for urban settings than decon containers.