Placing a Cache with Android

[Master Shifu]

Me and my girlfriend have recently started geocaching and are really getting into it. We both have a health condition so at first we weren’t sure how much we would be able to get around and be a part of all the fun. Things have been going pretty good so far and we love the sport. We only have about 16 caches so far but plan on getting a lot more. Due to our health issues we can only get about 5 a day max before we have to call it quits. We use our Android phones to go caching with. We are about to get the full GS membership and start looking at some locations to place our own caches.

 

My question is how can I find and place the coordinates of a cache with my android phone? I know with traditional GPS units it will tell you the correct location you are at, but I’ not sure about the Android software programs. I use a few different ones… GeoBeagle and GeoHunter.

 

Can someone give me a little help on how to find the correct coordinates of a cache we place? I’m not asking how to send the info to GS to get it published, but how to make sure we are sending the correct location once we place one.

 

Sorry for the noobie question,

 

Thanks for the help

[Master Shifu]

You know, I think I see it now... when using the compass on one of the programs it shows the coordinates on the bottom of page. At first I thought this was the location of the cache I was currently looking for, but it looks like it's changing as I move around. If any Android users know of the best program or way to determine a super accurate location to place caches I would really appreciate it. The GPS on my phone is super dead on most of the time.... which is why I've been using it. If it wasn't I would have bought a real GPS by now.

[+Themundies]

We use an iPhone and the GPS is notoriously spotty for it, not sure how much better the Droid is. What we do for placing a cache is we pull up a near by cache and set up to view on a satellite map. Then make a new waypoint for where the phone thinks we are. Then we use terrain or structural points that are visible around us on the map to tweak until we are sure the waypoint is where we put the cache and then we record those coordinates. It is a little labor intensive, but we are poor and can't afford the GPS unit we would like, so it is the best we can do. So far each of our caches have been found with no mention on coords being off.

[+AndyT1]

Perhaps try downloading an app like GPS Averaging - http://www.appbrain.com/app/gps-averaging/org.destil.gpsaveraging

[Master Shifu]

Perhaps try downloading an app like GPS Averaging - http://www.appbrain.com/app/gps-averaging/org.destil.gpsaveraging

 

This looks real nice... read the reviews and it seems like it's just what i'm looking for. Downloading it now!

 

Thanks

[+northernpenguin]

Frankly, if you have to ask .... I would say please don't.

 

Smartphones can technically provide accurate co-ordinates if the person using the device knows what they are doing. 90% of the time you'll end up providing co-ordinates that are 20-50 feet out. Take one reading and post it is a recipe for bad co-ords on any device ... especially a smartphone. Do not use Google Maps satellite view to "verify" the position either.

 

Think how you feel when a cache is placed and you find it 50 feet off.

Bare minimum please be prepared to average the co-ordinates, and come back multiple days to do so. Environmental effects - rain, leaves, canyons tend to affect smartphones with more intensity than dedicated GPSr units.

[Master Shifu]

Frankly, if you have to ask .... I would say please don't.

 

Smartphones can technically provide accurate co-ordinates if the person using the device knows what they are doing. 90% of the time you'll end up providing co-ordinates that are 20-50 feet out. Take one reading and post it is a recipe for bad co-ords on any device ... especially a smartphone. Do not use Google Maps satellite view to "verify" the position either.

 

Think how you feel when a cache is placed and you find it 50 feet off.

Bare minimum please be prepared to average the co-ordinates, and come back multiple days to do so. Environmental effects - rain, leaves, canyons tend to affect smartphones with more intensity than dedicated GPSr units.

 

Believe me, my phone's GPS is spot on. In a satellite view it can tell me were in my house I am. It can even tell me what corner of the room I’m sitting it. I have friends with smart phones that their GPS doesn't work worth a crap (Galaxy-S for starters), but I’ve been more than shocked at how good mine is.

 

With that being said, this is the exact reason I asked this question. When I do something, I do it all the way... no half a** for me. I'll be dammed if my cache location isn't going to be as perfect as it can be. I have a lot of respect for this game. Me and my girlfriend are new to the whole thing, but we always bring log books, pens, new containers, tape, and whatever else is needed to fix and upkeep other peoples caches when we go hunting. I’d say about half of the ones we’ve found we left in better condition then we got there.

 

That’s why I was asking about possible ways and programs that could help me with this. I plan on setting a few random location and going back a few days later and seeing how accurate it is and how I can perfect it before placing my first cache. We may be new, but we are kind of perfectionist when it comes to these things. If after some reassure we find that my phone can’t hack it, then we will be purchasing a GPS unit. From what I’ve seen so far I think my phone can handle it, but only time will tell.

 

I also hear that you should place the GPS unit on top of the cache for 5-10mins to insure a better lock on the location, is this true? My phone has a program that will give me a graphic readout of all the satellites orbiting space and how many of them your phone is currently locked onto. I will also be using this to insure that I have as many as possible locked on when I place my cache. Some days when it’s cloudy it doesn’t lock onto as many as normal.

 

I’m also a bit of a phone geek. I have my android phone rooted (hacked) and can flash the software to run different “radios”…. Radios are what control the GPS of the phone. Some work better than others depending on your kind of phone and the location of the country you live in. I have flashed many of the radios that are out there and tested them fully to insure the best one for my phone.

[+Team Four Paw]

I used the GPS Averaging app, a 60cs, and a 62s. I hung all three from a tree and stepped away to let them avg for 5 or so minutes.

Surprisingly the two Garmins avg'd identical coordinates. The phone was one digit different.

 

If you let it average long enough you should be able to get reasonably accurate coordinates.

 

Really though.. the phones just don't have good GPS antennas in them. Should only be a problem under heavy cover.

 

btw, I have a Galaxy S, the Fascinate actually. The GPS is quite fine on it but I'm also running a custom ROM which has fixed most of the issues with the GPSr. It's more a software issue than a hardware issue.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Team Four Paw

[Andronicus]

The accuracy question is all in the phone's hardware. Some phones are good, others, not so much. So far, my two smart phones are not very good. My new LG Optimus 7, I would never even consider hiding a cache with it. My old HTC Touch Vogue, I have hid some with care to avoid the static navigation feature from messing up the readings. Mostly I use my bluetooth GPS. It produces bang on results every time. My average when benchmarking with it is 2-3m accuracy.

[+CacheFreakTim]

If your are placing a cache with a phone you really need to go back to it several times over several days to verify accuracy. This might be a pain over the long run so it might just be easier to get a cheap GPS with waypoint averaging for hides.

[Master Shifu]

If you use your GPS on android you should check out "GPS Status & Toolbox" in the market. It's free and works great. It displays your GPS and sensor data: position and signal strength of satellites, accuracy, speed, acceleration, and bearing. You can also reset your GPS and download A-GPS date for faster fixes.

 

It shows where and how many satellites you're currently locked on to.

 

Now that I’m looking at it more, I could prob use this to see my current location to place a cache. I think I'll use this and "GPS Averaging" to see if they differ at all for the same location. I'm gonna try to use the GPS Status & Toolbox to fix a location (leaving it there for 5mins) then come back the next few days and do the same... see how much it differs day to day.

 

Edited July 19, 2011 by Master Shifu

[+Genoist]

I can generally tell when someone hid a cache with a smartphone instead of a real GPSr. The coords usually suck. It would be nice if someone could create an atribute for smartphone-placed caches so I could filter them out.

[+Panther&Pine]

Use your phone to call some one with a GPS?

[Master Shifu]

I can generally tell when someone hid a cache with a smartphone instead of a real GPSr. The coords usually suck. It would be nice if someone could create an atribute for smartphone-placed caches so I could filter them out.

 

That's funny... so if the cordanace is a little off, it means it was done with a smart phone. I guess before smart phones were around every cache location was exactly correct.

 

A cheap smart phone is like a cheap anything... you get what you pay for. If you buy quality, you get quality. Not all smart phones & not all GPS units are the same. To say all smart phones GPS suck would be a false statement. But... it is a convenient thing to blame; I’ll give you that.

[+JTWill]

Try GPS Test and/or GPS essentials.

[Andronicus]

I can generally tell when someone hid a cache with a smartphone instead of a real GPSr. The coords usually suck. It would be nice if someone could create an atribute for smartphone-placed caches so I could filter them out.

Before WAAS, what was GPS accuracy? 15m if I recall. I don't know of any phone that is worse than 15m if used correctly. So maybe those poorly listed caches were set with non WAAS GPSrs. Or maybe a smartphone user that does not understand their GPSr.

 

PS. Funny how people complain if a cache is even 9m off now. Back in the day (before WAAS) 9m would have been good. Now we expect the 3m accuracy that WAAS can provide.

[John E Cache]

If you use your GPS on android you should check out "GPS Status & Toolbox" in the market. It's free and works great. It displays your GPS and sensor data: position and signal strength of satellites, accuracy, speed, acceleration, and bearing. You can also reset your GPS and download A-GPS date for faster fixes.

 

It shows where and how many satellites you're currently locked on to.

 

Now that I'm looking at it more, I could prob use this to see my current location to place a cache. I think I'll use this and "GPS Averaging" to see if they differ at all for the same location. I'm gonna try to use the GPS Status & Toolbox to fix a location (leaving it there for 5mins) then come back the next few days and do the same... see how much it differs day to day.

 

To get the coordinates from that app, do menu->share->e-mail. I don't see why these coordinates would be any less accurate than a standalone GPS. If someone wants to say his GPS is more accurate, you have to consider that maybe he wants to justify spending a lot of money for his GPS. Errors come from atmospheric conditions and obstructions, common to both GPS and phone.

[Andronicus]

If you use your GPS on android you should check out "GPS Status & Toolbox" in the market. It's free and works great. It displays your GPS and sensor data: position and signal strength of satellites, accuracy, speed, acceleration, and bearing. You can also reset your GPS and download A-GPS date for faster fixes.

 

It shows where and how many satellites you're currently locked on to.

 

Now that I'm looking at it more, I could prob use this to see my current location to place a cache. I think I'll use this and "GPS Averaging" to see if they differ at all for the same location. I'm gonna try to use the GPS Status & Toolbox to fix a location (leaving it there for 5mins) then come back the next few days and do the same... see how much it differs day to day.

 

To get the coordinates from that app, do menu->share->e-mail. I don't see why these coordinates would be any less accurate than a standalone GPS. If someone wants to say his GPS is more accurate, you have to consider that maybe he wants to justify spending a lot of money for his GPS. Errors come from atmospheric conditions and obstructions, common to both GPS and phone.

The thing with phones is that a lot of them have "Static Navigation" to save battery life. If the user does not understand the consiquenses of this, they can get wildly off coordinates. I also think that phones are just as capable of accuriate reading especialy on a clear day in the open. But the user needs to understand thier individual phone and its quarks.

 

Edit: another common sourse of error on cellphones is when the user does not understand the triangulaiton vs. GPS. I just fired up my LG Optimus, and I got coordinates. However after digging more, I can see that they are not GPS generated, but GSM triangulation, and the error is ±3000m. If I used that to place a geocache, people would be cheesed off. But again, when a user understands his/her phone, this error can be avoided.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Andronicus

[Master Shifu]

If you use your GPS on android you should check out "GPS Status & Toolbox" in the market. It's free and works great. It displays your GPS and sensor data: position and signal strength of satellites, accuracy, speed, acceleration, and bearing. You can also reset your GPS and download A-GPS date for faster fixes.

 

It shows where and how many satellites you're currently locked on to.

 

Now that I'm looking at it more, I could prob use this to see my current location to place a cache. I think I'll use this and "GPS Averaging" to see if they differ at all for the same location. I'm gonna try to use the GPS Status & Toolbox to fix a location (leaving it there for 5mins) then come back the next few days and do the same... see how much it differs day to day.

 

To get the coordinates from that app, do menu->share->e-mail. I don't see why these coordinates would be any less accurate than a standalone GPS. If someone wants to say his GPS is more accurate, you have to consider that maybe he wants to justify spending a lot of money for his GPS. Errors come from atmospheric conditions and obstructions, common to both GPS and phone.

The thing with phones is that a lot of them have "Static Navigation" to save battery life. If the user does not understand the consiquenses of this, they can get wildly off coordinates. I also think that phones are just as capable of accuriate reading especialy on a clear day in the open. But the user needs to understand thier individual phone and its quarks.

 

Edit: another common sourse of error on cellphones is when the user does not understand the triangulaiton vs. GPS. I just fired up my LG Optimus, and I got coordinates. However after digging more, I can see that they are not GPS generated, but GSM triangulation, and the error is ±3000m. If I used that to place a geocache, people would be cheesed off. But again, when a user understands his/her phone, this error can be avoided.

 

I believe if you disable your "mobile phone data sync" and also turn off your WIFI connection this will insure that your phone get's the coordinates from the GPS only, not from near by cell towers and WIFI locations. Most Android phones will allow you to place a tool bar on your desk top so turning these options off is just one click away.

 

[+ace862]

If you use your GPS on android you should check out "GPS Status & Toolbox" in the market. It's free and works great. It displays your GPS and sensor data: position and signal strength of satellites, accuracy, speed, acceleration, and bearing. You can also reset your GPS and download A-GPS date for faster fixes.

 

It shows where and how many satellites you're currently locked on to.

 

Now that I’m looking at it more, I could prob use this to see my current location to place a cache. I think I'll use this and "GPS Averaging" to see if they differ at all for the same location. I'm gonna try to use the GPS Status & Toolbox to fix a location (leaving it there for 5mins) then come back the next few days and do the same... see how much it differs day to day.

 

 

Yes it does tell you how many satellites you're locked on to. But did you happen to notice the display on the opposite side of the display? The one that says Error? It shows your coordinates are accurate up to 24 meters. That's a possible error of just over 78ft. A little more than what is considered acceptable when placing a cache. My handheld GPS regularly has a lock of at least 10 out of 12 satellites and an accuracy of 3 to 5 meters. That's a considerable difference between devices if you ask me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my Android phone. I'm on my third one. When I'm caching it's always with me. It has all my cache info on it. But it stays in my pocket. As good as it is, it's no replacement for my dedicated handheld GPS.

[+BrixingtonPaddler]

If you use your GPS on android you should check out "GPS Status & Toolbox" in the market. It's free and works great. It displays your GPS and sensor data: position and signal strength of satellites, accuracy, speed, acceleration, and bearing. You can also reset your GPS and download A-GPS date for faster fixes.

 

It shows where and how many satellites you're currently locked on to.

 

Now that I’m looking at it more, I could prob use this to see my current location to place a cache. I think I'll use this and "GPS Averaging" to see if they differ at all for the same location. I'm gonna try to use the GPS Status & Toolbox to fix a location (leaving it there for 5mins) then come back the next few days and do the same... see how much it differs day to day.

 

 

Yes it does tell you how many satellites you're locked on to. But did you happen to notice the display on the opposite side of the display? The one that says Error? It shows your coordinates are accurate up to 24 meters. That's a possible error of just over 78ft. A little more than what is considered acceptable when placing a cache. My handheld GPS regularly has a lock of at least 10 out of 12 satellites and an accuracy of 3 to 5 meters. That's a considerable difference between devices if you ask me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my Android phone. I'm on my third one. When I'm caching it's always with me. It has all my cache info on it. But it stays in my pocket. As good as it is, it's no replacement for my dedicated handheld GPS.

 

I think that image is a bad example, in full view of the sky my Desire HD usually gets down to about 2m error quite quickly. The number you get on there though is still going to be a little out, when looking for a cache I find I have to walk around the area in a circle as it says im 4m's away even when i have walked 5 m's in that direction

 

For placing though I use the GPS averaging software you mentioned, then test by walking 30m's away then trying to go back to it. Many cache's I place have had comments that the Co-ords were spot on, so I'll stick with that.

 

Buying a 3rd spare battery though, as a days caching is pushing it with 2

[Master Shifu]

If you use your GPS on android you should check out "GPS Status & Toolbox" in the market. It's free and works great. It displays your GPS and sensor data: position and signal strength of satellites, accuracy, speed, acceleration, and bearing. You can also reset your GPS and download A-GPS date for faster fixes.

 

It shows where and how many satellites you're currently locked on to.

 

Now that I’m looking at it more, I could prob use this to see my current location to place a cache. I think I'll use this and "GPS Averaging" to see if they differ at all for the same location. I'm gonna try to use the GPS Status & Toolbox to fix a location (leaving it there for 5mins) then come back the next few days and do the same... see how much it differs day to day.

 

 

Yes it does tell you how many satellites you're locked on to. But did you happen to notice the display on the opposite side of the display? The one that says Error? It shows your coordinates are accurate up to 24 meters. That's a possible error of just over 78ft. A little more than what is considered acceptable when placing a cache. My handheld GPS regularly has a lock of at least 10 out of 12 satellites and an accuracy of 3 to 5 meters. That's a considerable difference between devices if you ask me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my Android phone. I'm on my third one. When I'm caching it's always with me. It has all my cache info on it. But it stays in my pocket. As good as it is, it's no replacement for my dedicated handheld GPS.

 

I think that image is a bad example, in full view of the sky my Desire HD usually gets down to about 2m error quite quickly. The number you get on there though is still going to be a little out, when looking for a cache I find I have to walk around the area in a circle as it says im 4m's away even when i have walked 5 m's in that direction

 

For placing though I use the GPS averaging software you mentioned, then test by walking 30m's away then trying to go back to it. Many cache's I place have had comments that the Co-ords were spot on, so I'll stick with that.

 

Buying a 3rd spare battery though, as a days caching is pushing it with 2

 

Yea, that most certainly a bad example of an android phone GPS specs. I just took a random image off of Google to show people the program. I’ve never seen mine anywhere near that many errors. It’s almost like the person posting the picture just did a screen shot of their phone wile they were in their house next to their computer. That’s the only way I can get that kind of errors… when I'm inside of an office building.

 

I’ll download a screen capture program for my phone and post a picture of my GPS specs so people can see the difference between a good phone with GPS and a bad phone (or bad location example).

[+dfx]

Yea, that most certainly a bad example of an android phone GPS specs. I just took a random image off of Google to show people the program. I've never seen mine anywhere near that many errors. It's almost like the person posting the picture just did a screen shot of their phone wile they were in their house next to their computer. That's the only way I can get that kind of errors… when I'm inside of an office building.

 

That sounds like you believe number you see for the GPS error is a count, or is an otherwise measurable value. It is not. The error given is an estimate, an educated guess, nothing more. It's not even a "maximum possible error" kinda thing. It's only a "probably ..." kinda thing.

[+TXHooligans]

I used my droid x and gps averaging to average coords to hide our first cache.. a few finders said the coords were off so i went back out and averaged them again and it was about 50' off.

 

this supprises me since i have provided great coords to other caches in the past. there was treee cover but i let it average over 50 readings. the app told me i had accuracy to about 4'. i did the same thing for the second set of coords to get the 50' difference. I'm waiting on the next few finders to tell me what they think. in a few days i'll go back out and see how the coords are.

 

with any gpsr, i think it's good to either step away a good distance and check again or come back later when differnet satelites are overhead.

 

i have seen bad coords from lots of gpsr's.. lots from phones, but standard gpsr's as well.