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Rubbertoe

Embeded MIDI (music) on Cache Pages

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What do you think about the use of auto-playing embedded MIDI music on a cache's description page?

 

- Toe.

 

(edited to reflect preference towards midi use ONLY on geocaching.com pages)

 

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[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on September 02, 2002 at 09:12 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on September 02, 2002 at 09:12 PM.]

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I'm not saying this because I'm expecting anyone to change their pages for me, nor do I expect them to really care how I feel about it...

 

NOTHING makes me click away from a page quicker than being forced to hear a song that I have no interest in hearing. I don't care if it is a cache page, an eBay auction, or someone's personal homepage.

 

Personally, I am usually playing my OWN music on my PC while I'm browsing around the web and reading my e-mails. These unwanted MIDI files on people's pages just glom up my otherwise potentially enjoyable experience with their page.

 

Like I said, I don't expect anyone to change anything based on my single voice. But I do want those people to understand that I'm not the only one that feels this way. Many, MANY people are very irritated when they're smacked in the ears by some annoying MIDI file when they click to view a web page.

 

By placing auto-playing MIDI music in your web pages, there is a good chance that you are alienating a large portion of your potential audience. People who might otherwise be very happy to read what you have to say, or to visit your cache - had it not been for some music that you forced upon them.

 

Stepping off my soapbox now... icon_wink.gif

 

( Oh, if you reply here - don't forget to cast your 'official' vote in the poll above. )

 

- Toe.

 

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I'm not saying this because I'm expecting anyone to change their pages for me, nor do I expect them to really care how I feel about it...

 

NOTHING makes me click away from a page quicker than being forced to hear a song that I have no interest in hearing. I don't care if it is a cache page, an eBay auction, or someone's personal homepage.

 

Personally, I am usually playing my OWN music on my PC while I'm browsing around the web and reading my e-mails. These unwanted MIDI files on people's pages just glom up my otherwise potentially enjoyable experience with their page.

 

Like I said, I don't expect anyone to change anything based on my single voice. But I do want those people to understand that I'm not the only one that feels this way. Many, MANY people are very irritated when they're smacked in the ears by some annoying MIDI file when they click to view a web page.

 

By placing auto-playing MIDI music in your web pages, there is a good chance that you are alienating a large portion of your potential audience. People who might otherwise be very happy to read what you have to say, or to visit your cache - had it not been for some music that you forced upon them.

 

Stepping off my soapbox now... icon_wink.gif

 

( Oh, if you reply here - don't forget to cast your 'official' vote in the poll above. )

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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I voted prematurely for 5, and should have chosen 3. I failed to take in the concept of "shouldn't be allowed" and "banned" in options 4 and 5.

 

When I first started driving, and had the typical "20 speaker, 400 megawatt teenager system - grunt grunt", I actually got stopped by a local policeman once in a rural town for playing my car stereo too loud. I remember the words from the officer clearly, "In this day and age everyone has a radio in their own car, if they want to listen to music they will use their own."

 

I was quite annoyed at the time, but time changes our thinking. The concept seems fitting for this subject as well!

 

I do not think there should be a rule banning it, but I don't care to listen to it and will often exit the page if there is music - I have my own to listen to if and when I want.

 

Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Just go away, your blocking my GPS signal!

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quote:
Originally posted by Team 5-oh!:

...and the music will stop!


Only in most cases, but not all.

 

Jamie

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I have not voted in this poll, but I offer my two cents.

 

I use music (not MIDI) on several of my cache and travel bug Web pages. I view it as personal expression ... something the masses have tended not to put restrictions on, at least in most Western countries. Consider motorcyles for example. Most motorists might consider them a nuisance, but we do not outlaw them because we believe in individual rights in this country. I myself have a fast as hell zuki crotch rocket, but I absolutely HATE harleys because they almost burst my eardrums when they go by ... #$%%%@!! But I believe in the right that those guys have to do that even though I find it annoying.

 

So....I guess maybe I should start a poll to eliminate number 4 and 5 from your poll... they annoy me too much. ((( just kidding!!!)))

 

Cache on.

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I realize that the "free speech" folks will be upset that I suggest that something be banned... but every web site will have things it will allow and not allow.

 

If someone has a web site with a forum for postings, but they turn off javascript in it... it isn't so much that they are taking away your right to free speech, they've just decided what they want and don't want on their pages.

 

That would be the same thing here on geocaching.com - if it ever happened that they banned MIDI on cache pages, it wouldn't be a free speech issue, imho. They wouldn't be banning you from doing it anywhere else - only on the site that they own. Of course I don't believe it would ever be banned... but if it was, I'd just consider it a new rule of the site and deal with it.

 

And, fwiw - I don't like midi, but I don't think it should necessarily be banned. I posted this poll more so the midi usin' folks could see that there is a large portion of folks who really really don't like midi though. icon_biggrin.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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I realize that the "free speech" folks will be upset that I suggest that something be banned... but every web site will have things it will allow and not allow.

 

If someone has a web site with a forum for postings, but they turn off javascript in it... it isn't so much that they are taking away your right to free speech, they've just decided what they want and don't want on their pages.

 

That would be the same thing here on geocaching.com - if it ever happened that they banned MIDI on cache pages, it wouldn't be a free speech issue, imho. They wouldn't be banning you from doing it anywhere else - only on the site that they own. Of course I don't believe it would ever be banned... but if it was, I'd just consider it a new rule of the site and deal with it.

 

And, fwiw - I don't like midi, but I don't think it should necessarily be banned. I posted this poll more so the midi usin' folks could see that there is a large portion of folks who really really don't like midi though. icon_biggrin.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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I do have to agree that midi without a good reason (yes I realize that is totally subjective) is a bad thing. However I think there are times that midi really adds to the ambiance of a cache.

 

Of my 5 caches only 1 has music, but it is a quest style cache based on a story. I wanted to lure people into the adventure with the music and I really do beleive that the music helps set the cache up and really does help set the tone of the cache hunt.

Similiarly I've done caches where I fell the music really helped make the cache better (usually by setting the tone, ie epic, spooky, themed (didn't do the mission impossible one but it definately comes to mind). I do have to agree that midi is starting to be overused. Another reason I added midi to mine (though not the most important) was to help set it apart.

 

I will admit though that, If I new html better I would include an off button, but I honestly have no idea how.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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I've also been tempted by the evil that is MIDI...

 

I was *this close* to adding The Monster Mash midi to this cache that I've placed in town here.

 

I've decided not to, because I want EVERYONE to enjoy that cache. I know that if I put an embedded midi on that page, there is a good chance I'd chase off a few people that would otherwise have a good time with that cache. icon_smile.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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I've also been tempted by the evil that is MIDI...

 

I was *this close* to adding The Monster Mash midi to this cache that I've placed in town here.

 

I've decided not to, because I want EVERYONE to enjoy that cache. I know that if I put an embedded midi on that page, there is a good chance I'd chase off a few people that would otherwise have a good time with that cache. icon_smile.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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Hey Toe. I realize this is your poll but you already posted three responses to your own poll - sort of like stuffing the ballot boxes. Next time it might be helpful if you just posed the question and give everyone else a chance to get their two cents in first. Plenty of time afterwards to let everyone know how you feel about it. I think you might get a more balanced response.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Alan

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

I realize this is your poll but you already posted three responses to your own poll - sort of like stuffing the ballot boxes. Next time it might be helpful if you just posed the question and give everyone else a chance to get their two cents in first. Plenty of time afterwards to let everyone know how you feel about it. I think you might get a more balanced response.


 

If my replies to people in this thread cause people to change how they would vote, then they evidently weren't that sure of themselves in the first place.

 

I made the first reply to clear up any confusion about what I meant by the word "ban" and then I just replied to a couple of folks who added their opinions here. If that sways opinion, well - I'm glad my thoughts were effective enough to do so. icon_smile.gif

 

Besides, the replies don't count towards anything in the poll results - you have to actually click your choice and submit it, so everyone gets only one 'official' vote anyway.

 

Feel free to sing the praises of MIDI on cache pages though, if you wanna help level the playing field. icon_wink.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

I realize this is your poll but you already posted three responses to your own poll - sort of like stuffing the ballot boxes. Next time it might be helpful if you just posed the question and give everyone else a chance to get their two cents in first. Plenty of time afterwards to let everyone know how you feel about it. I think you might get a more balanced response.


 

If my replies to people in this thread cause people to change how they would vote, then they evidently weren't that sure of themselves in the first place.

 

I made the first reply to clear up any confusion about what I meant by the word "ban" and then I just replied to a couple of folks who added their opinions here. If that sways opinion, well - I'm glad my thoughts were effective enough to do so. icon_smile.gif

 

Besides, the replies don't count towards anything in the poll results - you have to actually click your choice and submit it, so everyone gets only one 'official' vote anyway.

 

Feel free to sing the praises of MIDI on cache pages though, if you wanna help level the playing field. icon_wink.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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Actually the wording of the poll itself as well as the wording of the response choices can have a very very large effect. So much so that the design of a survey, test, poll used for scientific research goes through a gruelling process (or at least it should) that often takes as long if not longer then the survey, poll, test does. The way wording can swing a poll is really quite impressive. I'm not talking a few percent I'm talking very large percentages. Just thought I'd let everyone know, and while were on the topic can anyone tell email me how to add a stop button so my page (which I say again definately gains from the midi) can be "safely" enjoyed by all.

Thanks

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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quote:
Originally posted by mikechim:

Actually the wording of the poll itself as well as the wording of the response choices can have a very very large effect.


 

I agree... which brings me to answers 4 and 5. They are basically the same answer, just worded a bit differently - and with different 'emotion' to them. I find it interesting that more people have been choosing the ALL CAPS answer - imho, it shows that they are very passionate about their dislike for midi. icon_smile.gif

 

quote:
Just thought I'd let everyone know, and while were on the topic can anyone tell email me how to add a stop button so my page (which I say again definately gains from the midi) can be "safely" enjoyed by all.

 

I've wondered that myself... sometimes I'll go to a page that just has music playing, with nothing I can apparently do about it - then other times, you can actually see the tiny player application embedded in the web page, with a little stop/play button on it. I'd kinda like to know the answer to that question as well.

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by mikechim:

Actually the wording of the poll itself as well as the wording of the response choices can have a very very large effect.


 

I agree... which brings me to answers 4 and 5. They are basically the same answer, just worded a bit differently - and with different 'emotion' to them. I find it interesting that more people have been choosing the ALL CAPS answer - imho, it shows that they are very passionate about their dislike for midi. icon_smile.gif

 

quote:
Just thought I'd let everyone know, and while were on the topic can anyone tell email me how to add a stop button so my page (which I say again definately gains from the midi) can be "safely" enjoyed by all.

 

I've wondered that myself... sometimes I'll go to a page that just has music playing, with nothing I can apparently do about it - then other times, you can actually see the tiny player application embedded in the web page, with a little stop/play button on it. I'd kinda like to know the answer to that question as well.

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by The Artful Dodger:

I think my http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=27102 cache BEGS to have music on it ! icon_biggrin.gif


 

Great googily moogily... that's quite a page. icon_smile.gif

 

Nice idea - I hope your area remains fairly free of looters. I know I'd never attempt a cache like that around here at this time... too many missing caches. icon_smile.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by The Artful Dodger:

I think my http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=27102 cache BEGS to have music on it ! icon_biggrin.gif


 

Great googily moogily... that's quite a page. icon_smile.gif

 

Nice idea - I hope your area remains fairly free of looters. I know I'd never attempt a cache like that around here at this time... too many missing caches. icon_smile.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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Hey I know! Let's bring back the tag too!

 

[Edit]

Oh yeah, just for the record "BOO!" is my opinion of any page anywhere that has midi music. I'd rather have a .wav of fingernails on chalkboards than .midi music. icon_smile.gif

 

--------

trippy1976

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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Hey I know! Let's bring back the tag too!

 

[Edit]

Oh yeah, just for the record "BOO!" is my opinion of any page anywhere that has midi music. I'd rather have a .wav of fingernails on chalkboards than .midi music. icon_smile.gif

 

--------

trippy1976

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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WAV is much more preferable to MIDI but a mother-of-a-***** to download anything of significance whereas MIDIs are small files.

 

Nevertheless, I have Homer singing away on my Rapture of the Deep cache.

 

..and for followers of both MIDI and WAV, I have both on my Video Shop cache.

 

I know that sounds may piss off some people who view my cache pages but I like 'em and, as Rhett Butler once said... "Frankly my dear,...."

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quote:
I know that sounds may piss off some people who view my cache pages but I like 'em and, as Rhett Butler once said... "Frankly my dear,...."

 

Upinyachit has checked out all of your caches and we love them! We wish we could go and find them! We have been on the watch list for the one you hid in the Bahamas for a while now. This is one of our favorite caches to open.

 

Some people have a dial up modem and it may take a little longer to open a cache that has music or animated pictures. We have road runner, a cable connection that makes opening up any type of cache way easy. Cable modems are worth every penny!

 

When we went on vacation and checked out our own caches that we hid on someone else's computer, we were shocked. They had a dial up connection and no posible way to have any other type. The area they live in doesn't offer it. The amount of time it spent to open our own caches was about tripled. It was somewhat fustrating.

 

So with this being said, we understand how music or pictures would frustrate someone.

 

Duane

Upinyachit

icon_smile.gif

 

Our feet go where the caches are! feet.gif

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quote:
I know that sounds may piss off some people who view my cache pages but I like 'em and, as Rhett Butler once said... "Frankly my dear,...."

 

Upinyachit has checked out all of your caches and we love them! We wish we could go and find them! We have been on the watch list for the one you hid in the Bahamas for a while now. This is one of our favorite caches to open.

 

Some people have a dial up modem and it may take a little longer to open a cache that has music or animated pictures. We have road runner, a cable connection that makes opening up any type of cache way easy. Cable modems are worth every penny!

 

When we went on vacation and checked out our own caches that we hid on someone else's computer, we were shocked. They had a dial up connection and no posible way to have any other type. The area they live in doesn't offer it. The amount of time it spent to open our own caches was about tripled. It was somewhat fustrating.

 

So with this being said, we understand how music or pictures would frustrate someone.

 

Duane

Upinyachit

icon_smile.gif

 

Our feet go where the caches are! feet.gif

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I have dialup and I can attest that I dislike pages with wav files because they take so freakin long to load. I had wanted to include a clip of Tolkien reciting the "one ring to rule them all" verse's for DX's and My Tolkien quilt project, but eventually I gave up because no matter how much I cut the clip or dropped the audio quality it still took way to long to load and it also didn't load smoothly. Fortunately most midi files don't take to long.

Man I wish I had my high speed access back.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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<embed src=http://img.Groundspeak.com/track/232_400.midAutostart=TRUE Width=144 Height=56 Loop=false>

 

Set the Autostart to FALSE and the people have to click the play button to hear it.

 

Midi Enhanced Page with controller prominently displayed on top.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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thanks, so all your doing is making it big enough for the media player to show up, hmmm simple enough, sometimes I know so little about computers it amazes me.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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quote:
Originally posted by Markwell:

<embed src=http://img.Groundspeak.com/track/232_400.midAutostart=TRUE Width=144 Height=56 Loop=false>

 

Set the Autostart to FALSE and the people have to click the play button to hear it.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=232 with controller prominently displayed on top.

 

http://www.markwell.us

http://www.chicagogeocaching.com

 

Hmmm. Thanks Markwell. I will set it to false for the HOMER wav. Good idea. icon_wink.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Markwell:

<embed src=http://img.Groundspeak.com/track/232_400.midAutostart=TRUE Width=144 Height=56 Loop=false>

 

Set the Autostart to FALSE and the people have to click the play button to hear it.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=232 with controller prominently displayed on top.

 

http://www.markwell.us

http://www.chicagogeocaching.com

 

Hmmm. Thanks Markwell. I will set it to false for the HOMER wav. Good idea. icon_wink.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by The Artful Dodger:

WAV is much more preferable to MIDI but a mother-of-a-***** to download anything of significance whereas MIDIs are small files.


 

Yeah, I think there is a travel bug that has a wav of Beavis saying FIRE!!!! FIIIRRRRE!! - and I actually enjoyed that.

 

It went along with the theme of his bug, it played ONCE when the page loaded - and then the page was nice and quiet after that. icon_smile.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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quote:
Originally posted by The Artful Dodger:

WAV is much more preferable to MIDI but a mother-of-a-***** to download anything of significance whereas MIDIs are small files.


 

Yeah, I think there is a travel bug that has a wav of Beavis saying FIRE!!!! FIIIRRRRE!! - and I actually enjoyed that.

 

It went along with the theme of his bug, it played ONCE when the page loaded - and then the page was nice and quiet after that. icon_smile.gif

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's Webcam, Photo Albums, and Homepage >==--

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When I go to a cache page, it's to get INFORMATION about a cache.

I don't want to be ENTERTAINED by it.

That means no music, no funny backgrounds, nobody's interpretation of what font and/or colors I should be seeing, etc...if it doesn't contribute to me finding out what I need to know about your cache, don't put it on the @#$#@#$#@#!!! cache page.

9 times out of 10 when someone messes with the pre-defined format, the page looks like crap.

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but I have heeded advice and tweaked my new cache page a tad. It has two sources for 'sound' Music is defaulted off and, if selected, the soundtrack changes constantly, depending on the time within the hour you select it.

 

Tell me what you think? Constructive criticism is always appreciated - At times icon_wink.gif

 

Phantasmagoria

 

[This message was edited by The Artful Dodger on September 09, 2002 at 10:17 AM.]

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but I have heeded advice and tweaked my new cache page a tad. It has two sources for 'sound' Music is defaulted off and, if selected, the soundtrack changes constantly, depending on the time within the hour you select it.

 

Tell me what you think? Constructive criticism is always appreciated - At times icon_wink.gif

 

Phantasmagoria

 

[This message was edited by The Artful Dodger on September 09, 2002 at 10:17 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by The Artful Dodger:

Tell me what you think? Constructive criticism is always appreciated - At times icon_wink.gif

 

(Phantasmagoria)


 

I think it caused IE 6 on Windows XP to lock up, forcing me to kill it.

 

warm.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by The Artful Dodger:

Tell me what you think? Constructive criticism is always appreciated - At times icon_wink.gif

 

(Phantasmagoria)


 

I think it caused IE 6 on Windows XP to lock up, forcing me to kill it.

 

warm.gif

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