Question about a Mystery cache and I do mean a Mystery!

July 11, 2011

If a cache was submitted and rejected is it possible that cache info would still exist on this site? I found an unpublished cache last year that was either part of a multi or a mystery cache. Whoever placed the cache took enough time to paint and camo the 35mm film container. The container included another set of coordinates and a 4 of diamonds. I could not find another container at the other listed coordinates. It also included the geocaching welcome sheet with this site's web address, which is why I am positve the hider at least submitted the cache info to this site. I would love to know what cache I found. I have the set of coordinates where I found the 35mm container and I have the set of coordinates to the next stage/final? Any good ideas? Could a reviewer research those coordinates if the cache was never published? Nothing like a good caching mystery to solve :rolleyes: Thanks for any help.

19k · July 11, 2011

Can you provide coordinates? If it is/was only a few years old, a reviewer reading this may be able to identify it from those child coordinates (which have not always been available in the database). Otherwise, they may still be able to guess what cache is was.

9.2k · July 11, 2011

Can you provide coordinates? If it is/was only a few years old, a reviewer reading this may be able to identify it from those child coordinates (which have not always been available in the database). Otherwise, they may still be able to guess what cache is was.

Ahh, but.

If the cache found was one of the stages... Posting the co-ords here may give the game away, for one of the stages of the cache!

However, yes, one of the reviewers may be able to help.

And, I do realize it may be an archived cache.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Bear and Ragged

19k · July 11, 2011

Can you provide coordinates? If it is/was only a few years old, a reviewer reading this may be able to identify it from those child coordinates (which have not always been available in the database). Otherwise, they may still be able to guess what cache is was.

Ahh, but.

If the cache found was one of the stages... Posting the co-ords here may give the game away, for one of the stages of the cache!

However, yes, one of the reviewers may be able to help.

And, I do realize it may be an archived cache.

True. Just because " I could not find another container at the other listed coordinates." does not at all imply that the found stage is part of an archived or never published cache!

July 11, 2011

I am certain this is an archived or unpublished cache from some time ago. The coordinates are within 40ft of an existing active cache published on this site. The coordinates I found the cache/stage at are N44 41.995 / W073 26.957. The next set of coordinates were N44 41.952 / W073 26.771. The cache was in excellent condition including the contents. It was intended to be at that spot because there was an obvious small pile of rocks concealing the 35mm container. A welcome to geocaching sheet was also in the container but the verbage differs considerably from the current version. I wonder if that piece of info would give an indication of how old this cache is?

July 11, 2011

Sounds like it could have been part of a Poker Run at an event. I've never been to an event but I'm pretty sure many of them do temp caches that are only available to event attendees that aren't published online.

14k · July 11, 2011

I am certain this is an archived or unpublished cache from some time ago. The coordinates are within 40ft of an existing active cache published on this site. The coordinates I found the cache/stage at are N44 41.995 / W073 26.957. The next set of coordinates were N44 41.952 / W073 26.771. The cache was in excellent condition including the contents. It was intended to be at that spot because there was an obvious small pile of rocks concealing the 35mm container. A welcome to geocaching sheet was also in the container but the verbage differs considerably from the current version. I wonder if that piece of info would give an indication of how old this cache is?

I love a good mystery. Since there was a playing card in the cache, and you did not say that it contained a log sheet, it sounds very much like this was a physical stage in a mystery cache, where one must find several (probably six) caches, each containing a playing card to determine the coordinates for a finale.

As Knowschad said, if the cache was place more than a couple of years ago, a CO was not required to provide coordinates for "additional waypoints", thus it may not be easy to figure out. The closest cache to the coordinates you provided was placed in December 2010, so it's possible that someone tried to place a multi/puzzle cache before the "Exploring Lake Champlain" cache was placed. Of course, there may have been a cache there before, that is now archived that caused proximity issues.

I may be that the CO was planning on placing a series of caches, a week or so apart, encountered a proximity issue with that one, and decided to give up on the series (and never removed the container).

I'm not saying this is the case, it may have been placed by a newbie that didn't take the time to read all the guidelines and knowledge book entries about saturation, encountered a proximity issue, and rather than adjust the puzzle by moving that cache they just gave up. I have noticed that quite a few new geocachers that are placing their first hide, try to create some sort elaborate, often confusing multi or puzzle caches, I suppose in an attempt to bring something thing new to the game. I imagine that they'll often run into guideline issues, a greater chance of proximity conflicts, and generally more trouble than if they'd just tried to hide an ammo can in the woods.

July 12, 2011

I love a good mystery. Since there was a playing card in the cache, and you did not say that it contained a log sheet, it sounds very much like this was a physical stage in a mystery cache, where one must find several (probably six) caches, each containing a playing card to determine the coordinates for a finale.

As Knowschad said, if the cache was place more than a couple of years ago, a CO was not required to provide coordinates for "additional waypoints", thus it may not be easy to figure out. The closest cache to the coordinates you provided was placed in December 2010, so it's possible that someone tried to place a multi/puzzle cache before the "Exploring Lake Champlain" cache was placed. Of course, there may have been a cache there before, that is now archived that caused proximity issues.

I may be that the CO was planning on placing a series of caches, a week or so apart, encountered a proximity issue with that one, and decided to give up on the series (and never removed the container).

I'm not saying this is the case, it may have been placed by a newbie that didn't take the time to read all the guidelines and knowledge book entries about saturation, encountered a proximity issue, and rather than adjust the puzzle by moving that cache they just gave up. I have noticed that quite a few new geocachers that are placing their first hide, try to create some sort elaborate, often confusing multi or puzzle caches, I suppose in an attempt to bring something thing new to the game. I imagine that they'll often run into guideline issues, a greater chance of proximity conflicts, and generally more trouble than if they'd just tried to hide an ammo can in the woods.

The cache did not contain a log book. The cache was in such good shape I thought it was a newer placement. What makes me wonder how "new" the placement was is the welcome to geocaching sheet. The wording differs quite a bit from the current one. If I knew when that particular welcome to geocaching slogan stopped I may at least know how old this cache is. I have the whole slogan but here is the last paragraph.

And let us know you found this by visiting the website below. The GPS Stash Hunt is for everyone with a sense of adventure. There are several thousands of them around the world. Visit our website if you want to learn more, or have any comment: www.geocaching.com

19k · July 12, 2011

And let us know you found this by visiting the website below. The GPS Stash Hunt is for everyone with a sense of adventure. There are several thousands of them around the world. Visit our website if you want to learn more, or have any comment: www.geocaching.com

Wow! "Stash Hunt", "thousands"? I think you may have found a very very old cache piece! The word "Stash" hasn't officially been used since the early years. The plot thickens!

July 12, 2011

And let us know you found this by visiting the website below. The GPS Stash Hunt is for everyone with a sense of adventure. There are several thousands of them around the world. Visit our website if you want to learn more, or have any comment: www.geocaching.com

Wow! "Stash Hunt", "thousands"? I think you may have found a very very old cache piece! The word "Stash" hasn't officially been used since the early years. The plot thickens!

Thickens is right. If the contents (paper) showed more wear ie. wet,faded,blurred ink I'd agree 100%. The 35mm container was under a rock exposed to the air. I have never and I repeat never found an older (say over a year)film container that had perfect contents unless maintenace was done recently. It's just a plain jane 35mm container with no special waterproofing. To top it all off it's within 10ft of the lakeshore.

7.3k · July 12, 2011

And let us know you found this by visiting the website below. The GPS Stash Hunt is for everyone with a sense of adventure. There are several thousands of them around the world. Visit our website if you want to learn more, or have any comment: www.geocaching.com

If you do a Google search for that phrase, you will find sites where you can download log sheets that include it.

For example: http://www.techblazer.com/geocaching-log-sheets/

I could print it out right now and put it in a cache.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Pup Patrol

July 12, 2011

The cache did not contain a log book. The cache was in such good shape I thought it was a newer placement. What makes me wonder how "new" the placement was is the welcome to geocaching sheet. The wording differs quite a bit from the current one. If I knew when that particular welcome to geocaching slogan stopped I may at least know how old this cache is. I have the whole slogan but here is the last paragraph.

And let us know you found this by visiting the website below. The GPS Stash Hunt is for everyone with a sense of adventure. There are several thousands of them around the world. Visit our website if you want to learn more, or have any comment: www.geocaching.com

Ummm, I have hidden two caches withing the last month whose cache sheet contained that exact verbage. Groundspeak is not the only place to download log sheets and stash notes in various formats, I'm just sayin...

July 12, 2011

The cache did not contain a log book. The cache was in such good shape I thought it was a newer placement. What makes me wonder how "new" the placement was is the welcome to geocaching sheet. The wording differs quite a bit from the current one. If I knew when that particular welcome to geocaching slogan stopped I may at least know how old this cache is. I have the whole slogan but here is the last paragraph.

And let us know you found this by visiting the website below. The GPS Stash Hunt is for everyone with a sense of adventure. There are several thousands of them around the world. Visit our website if you want to learn more, or have any comment: www.geocaching.com

Ummm, I have hidden two caches withing the last month whose cache sheet contained that exact verbage. Groundspeak is not the only place to download log sheets and stash notes in various formats, I'm just sayin...

And there we go. The plot thickens 3rd party...

July 12, 2011

Nice detective work!! You are right that is the exact verbage used. With the info that you came up with and the fact that the contents of the cache are mint, I believe this was a fairly recent hide. I surmise that the cache was hidden in the April,May,June, timeframe of 2010. This cache was approved in June 2010. My guess is the hider placed this multi/mystery around that time frame and submitted it after 6/4/2010. It was rejected due to the proximity of this other cache (within 40ft). So I'm back to my original question. If a cache was submitted and rejected can someone find out what cache it was with the coordinates that I listed?

I suppose there is also the small possibility that this cache was published/submitted on another site. I would find it odd that the hider would take the time to print out that sheet with this site's web address.

Edited July 12, 2011 by snowfreak37

21.9k · July 12, 2011

Nice detective work!! You are right that is the exact verbage used. With the info that you came up with and the fact that the contents of the cache are mint, I believe this was a fairly recent hide. I surmise that the cache was hidden in the April,May,June, timeframe of 2010. This cache was approved in June 2010. My guess is the hider placed this multi/mystery around that time frame and submitted it after 6/4/2010. It was rejected due to the proximity of this other cache (within 40ft). So I'm back to my original question. If a cache was submitted and rejected can someone find out what cache it was with the coordinates that I listed?

I suppose there is also the small possibility that this cache was published/submitted on another site. I would find it odd that the hider would take the time to print out that sheet with this site's web address.

There's never been a multicache or mystery/puzzle cache submitted but rejected within two miles of the linked cache. There was a traditional cache placed 275 feet west of here, that was rejected in 2003 for being too close to the railroad right of way.

GC10CPJ, an archived multicache with a different design than what was described here, had a waypoint in the general area (more than .1 miles away).

I'm liking the "poker run cache for an event" theory.

1.8k · July 12, 2011

I'm liking the "poker run cache for an event" theory.

I'm liking that theory too... Does anyone know if there have been any events posted in the area in the last couple of years?

19k · July 12, 2011

And let us know you found this by visiting the website below. The GPS Stash Hunt is for everyone with a sense of adventure. There are several thousands of them around the world. Visit our website if you want to learn more, or have any comment: www.geocaching.com

If you do a Google search for that phrase, you will find sites where you can download log sheets that include it.

For example: http://www.techblaze...ing-log-sheets/

I could print it out right now and put it in a cache.

I did just that before seeing your post. Just old documents printed out recently, it would appear.

19k · July 12, 2011

I'm liking the "poker run cache for an event" theory.

I'm liking that theory too... Does anyone know if there have been any events posted in the area in the last couple of years?

Or coming up soon?

2.4k · July 12, 2011

I'm wondering if it was for a 10 year event. Old verbage, but newer condition. A trip back through time for people to enjoy.

Close to an existing cache to log while there. Sounds possible to me.

Doug 7rxc

July 12, 2011

I'm liking the "poker run cache for an event" theory.

I'm liking that theory too... Does anyone know if there have been any events posted in the area in the last couple of years?

I am not familiar with a "poker run cache for an event". Wouldn't that require a cache submission? This 35mm container is one of the best I have seen to date. Camo duct tape cut perfect and wrapped around the container, camo painted top,welcome to geocaching sheet,4 of diamonds card cut in half to fit in the container. I can't imagine someone taking that much time on a single part of a multi/mystery cache just for an event. In my opinion this was meant to stay. I was not aware of any events within the last couple of years.

1.8k · July 12, 2011

I am not familiar with a "poker run cache for an event". Wouldn't that require a cache submission?

Event organizers will often place temporary caches near the grounds of an event, for fun and games. One popular variant is a "poker run" - folks have a certain amount of time to visit as many caches as they can, retrieving or identifying playing cards along the way. Usually there is no way to visit all of them; the person who returns with five cards making up the best poker hand wins the challenge.

Not only don't they require a cache submission, they generally would not be allowed to be published on the site, as there is a permanence guideline (caches are supposed to be left in place for at least three months or so, last time I checked). A temporary cache set up just for an event wouldn't qualify. There's nothing wrong with temporary caches of course; they just don't get listed here with their own waypoint numbers, etc.

I think you would be surprised at the lengths some organizers might go to for activities during a cache event. If you were describing a custom-painted ammo can I might be more in your camp, but a 35mm film canister, even one with a little paint and camo tape applied, isn't out of character for these things at all. The total expense for that is measured in pennies, and the total time required to prepare the container would be measured in minutes at the most. Especially if there were dozens of others. And the inclusion of the geocaching fact sheet, but no log book or log sheet, seems relevant as well.

I'm not 100% about any of this, of course. Just where I'm leaning.

July 12, 2011

There's never been a multicache or mystery/puzzle cache submitted but rejected within two miles of the linked cache. There was a traditional cache placed 275 feet west of here, that was rejected in 2003 for being too close to the railroad right of way.

GC10CPJ, an archived multicache with a different design than what was described here, had a waypoint in the general area (more than .1 miles away).

I'm liking the "poker run cache for an event" theory.

Thanks for looking Keystone. Were you able to search those coordinates as waypoints for a particular cache? I doubt the final was more than 2 miles away. The distance from where I found the 35mm container to the next set of coordinates was just over the minimum guidelines. The only known set of coordinates are the ones that were written on the backside of the welcome to geocaching sheet. The other set of coordinates are where I found this "other" cache by accident. It's too bad I can't locate the next stage. I have been back 3 times and searched extensively with no luck.

July 12, 2011

I am not familiar with a "poker run cache for an event". Wouldn't that require a cache submission?

Event organizers will often place temporary caches near the grounds of an event, for fun and games. One popular variant is a "poker run" - folks have a certain amount of time to visit as many caches as they can, retrieving or identifying playing cards along the way. Usually there is no way to visit all of them; the person who returns with five cards making up the best poker hand wins the challenge.

Not only don't they require a cache submission, they generally would not be allowed to be published on the site, as there is a permanence guideline (caches are supposed to be left in place for at least three months or so, last time I checked). A temporary cache set up just for an event wouldn't qualify. There's nothing wrong with temporary caches of course; they just don't get listed here with their own waypoint numbers, etc.

I think you would be surprised at the lengths some organizers might go to for activities during a cache event. If you were describing a custom-painted ammo can I might be more in your camp, but a 35mm film canister, even one with a little paint and camo tape applied, isn't out of character for these things at all. The total expense for that is measured in pennies, and the total time required to prepare the container would be measured in minutes at the most. Especially if there were dozens of others. And the inclusion of the geocaching fact sheet, but no log book or log sheet, seems relevant as well.

I'm not 100% about any of this, of course. Just where I'm leaning.

If this cache was placed for an event I still think the event would have been no older than April of 2009, because the contents of the cache are mint. If I was a betting man I'd say the cache was placed spring of 2010. If that's the case then it probably would have been an event for the 2010 calendar year. Every now and again I go back to see if the cache was replaced thinking maybe it was listed on another site but no such luck.

July 13, 2011

So lets just say this cache was placed for an event. The event would have been published correct? I ran a pocket query for just event caches with a 100 mile radius and it came up empty. Is it safe to say that an expired event will not show up in my query. Is there a way for me to research past events? I would think the event would have taken place in the city the cache was found, which in this case is Plattsburgh,NY.

14k · July 13, 2011

So lets just say this cache was placed for an event. The event would have been published correct? I ran a pocket query for just event caches with a 100 mile radius and it came up empty. Is it safe to say that an expired event will not show up in my query. Is there a way for me to research past events? I would think the event would have taken place in the city the cache was found, which in this case is Plattsburgh,NY.

From the "Cache Types" page off the Geocaching Guide...

"An Event Cache is a gathering of local geocachers or geocaching organizations to discuss geocaching. The Event Cache page specifies a time for the event and provides coordinates to its location. After the event, the cache is archived."

There have been a few times when I've wanted to search for past events, but because events are archived after they occur (not sure how long they remain active to allow attendees to post their logs) it can't be done easily.

There is somewhat of a workaround though. Do a search for local caches that were placed last year and find the logs of other local cachers that found it. Then look at their profile and their list of Event Caches under "Found Geocaches". That *will* show archived events, but you might have to look at quite a few profiles.

July 18, 2011

So lets just say this cache was placed for an event. The event would have been published correct? I ran a pocket query for just event caches with a 100 mile radius and it came up empty. Is it safe to say that an expired event will not show up in my query. Is there a way for me to research past events? I would think the event would have taken place in the city the cache was found, which in this case is Plattsburgh,NY.

From the "Cache Types" page off the Geocaching Guide...

"An Event Cache is a gathering of local geocachers or geocaching organizations to discuss geocaching. The Event Cache page specifies a time for the event and provides coordinates to its location. After the event, the cache is archived."

There have been a few times when I've wanted to search for past events, but because events are archived after they occur (not sure how long they remain active to allow attendees to post their logs) it can't be done easily.

There is somewhat of a workaround though. Do a search for local caches that were placed last year and find the logs of other local cachers that found it. Then look at their profile and their list of Event Caches under "Found Geocaches". That *will* show archived events, but you might have to look at quite a few profiles.

Good advice. I was able to "see" these archived events and I didn't find any in Plattsburgh,NY. Most of the events were over 50 miles away. I have not been to an event yet. Would it be safe to say that a "poker" cache hidden for an event would stay fairly close to the event? Say within 10 miles? The other thing this is perplexing but not impossible to imagine. Most of the event caches seem to be published by seasoned/respected cachers. I would hope after the event is done that these left over caches would be picked up after the event. In a poker cache placed for an event do you take just the card or the whole cache? This cache still had the card, the other set of coordinates held no cache that I could find (I've been back since). The more I dig in the less convinced I am about this being a cache placed for an event. If that's the case then there is 3 possibilites.

1. Cache was submitted to another site (why the welcome to geocaching sheet with this web sites addy)

2. Cache was submitted here but outside the current search parameter of 2 miles done by Keystone(Thank You)

3. Cache was never submitted anywhere (unlikely,fair amount of time stuck into the hide area and cache container/contents).

Question about a Mystery cache and I do mean a Mystery!

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