Sewer Tunnel Caches

July 9, 2011

Hey,

A few blocks from my house there is a Storm Water pond fed by gutter water. My girlfriend and I were doing some CITO (without the caching) around there (the pond is circled by a walking path) and while cleaning we discovered one of the concrete pipes that is usually grated up had it's grate removed.

If you were caching in my area would you consider this an interesting cache to do, or would you think it is too dangerous/gross?

I haven't gone in and checked it out yet, but you definately would need boots and flashlights/headlamps.

I was thinking for the cache I could use some reflectors and make a cool spiralling path along the pipe towards the cache and for directions if the pipe ends up to be maze like.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Paperstraw

18.9k · July 9, 2011

Such caches do exist and are found regularly by many but I strongly encourage you to understand the extreme dangers of enclosed spaces that are not intended for humans. There is a reason for those grates.

July 9, 2011

Yeah of course, I would never ask someone to do something that I found too dangerous to do myself (which probably wouldn't take that much :laughing: ), do you have any of the GC's so I can see the kind of descriptions and ratings they gave the terrain?

Edited July 9, 2011 by Paperstraw

18.9k · July 9, 2011

Yeah of course, I would never ask someone to do something that I found too dangerous to do myself (which probably wouldn't take that much ), do you have any of the GC's so I can see the kind of descriptions and ratings they gave the terrain?

no - because I think it is a bad idea. I've been through formal training for such places and the dangers involved. Might be safe 99% of the time but when it is unsafe - it may well be deadly.

July 10, 2011

Hmm, are you thinking H2S and other highly flammable/toxic gasses?

1k · July 10, 2011

My girlfriend and I were doing some CITO (without the caching)

That's impossible. CITO without caching is just picking up litter. The name is not synonymous with picking up litter or generally cleaning up.

do you have any of the GC's so I can see the kind of descriptions and ratings they gave the terrain?

http://coord.info/GCMGWM

http://coord.info/GC14J13

http://coord.info/GC2ZB6M

http://coord.info/GC2D6FZ

http://coord.info/GCMHP8

http://coord.info/GC674E

The way this one is written I'm not even sure how it got approved.

July 10, 2011

My girlfriend and I were doing some CITO (without the caching)

That's impossible. CITO without caching is just picking up litter. The name is not synonymous with picking up litter or generally cleaning up.

If you want to be picky there is a cache in the general area.

But thanks for the GC's I'll take a look and see how I feel about it.

7.9k · July 10, 2011

I have found a few like what you propose, and I own one sorta like that.

The first issue that comes to mind is 'How far in?'.

20-30 feet?

several hundred feet?

even farther?

July 10, 2011

There is no such things as too dangerous/gross on geocaching. They'll publish anything legal. There is a cache at an abandoned nuclear facility, as well as a cache on an island made entirely of bird poop. It's only a matter of whether or not you are allowed and willing to place it.

19k · July 10, 2011

Arguably the most exciting cache I have done was in a drain tunnel. Not just because it was in the drain... it was also awesome how drip water froze into a solid ice curtain at the end of the quest that you had to break by kicking it and watching the ice shatter in the light of your headlamps. But also a big part was undeniably the excitement of being in the tunnel. I think I've done four caches similar to it, but not quite as exciting. However, odds are, they were all illegal, and without permission. The one that I mentioned was eventually archived, but only after I did it twice... it was so much fun that I did it again with another group of friends.

Unofficial bottom line: it sure can be fun to break the rules.

Official bottom line would be: have you got adequate permission? I seriously doubt it.

1k · July 10, 2011

But also a big part was undeniably the excitement of being in the tunnel. I think I've done four caches similar to it, but not quite as exciting. However, odds are, they were all illegal, and without permission. [...] it was so much fun that I did it again with another group of friends.

Who are you and what have you done with knowschad? :shocked:

5.7k · July 10, 2011

There is no such things as too dangerous/gross on geocaching. They'll publish anything legal. There is a cache at an abandoned nuclear facility, as well as a cache on an island made entirely of bird poop. It's only a matter of whether or not you are allowed and willing to place it.

You got that right!

July 10, 2011

Official bottom line would be: have you got adequate permission? I seriously doubt it.

Well there isn't any "no trespassing" signs... ha ha ha.

It's like the old saying "It's only illegal if you get caught". :anibad:

6.1k · July 10, 2011

The way this one is written I'm not even sure how it got approved.

Caches are not "approved", they are reviewed and published.

They previously used to use that word, but changed it quite awhile ago. Usually only old school cachers will use it out of habit. It's rather unusual for someone new to post that. The difference is that they do not wish to make anyone think they are endorsing it, but only to indicate that it meets the guidelines.

1k · July 10, 2011

They publish it after they approve it. So sue me.

1.5k · July 10, 2011

These are storm drains not sewer drains. Storm drains don't have the dangerous gas issues that sewers have.

I am familiar with a very hard storm drain cache that was created by the person who designed the storm system.

The most dangerous elements to these caches is slip & falls and bumped heads. There hasn't been an issue with cachers trying these during thunderstorms.

6.1k · July 10, 2011

They publish it after they approve it. So sue me.

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

Water runoff drains may not be sewer drains, but sometimes they do have sewage due to leaking pipes. A strong smell is usually an indicator of that.

Edited July 10, 2011 by 4wheelin_fool

July 10, 2011

That's impossible. CITO without caching is just picking up litter. The name is not synonymous with picking up litter or generally cleaning up.

Caches are not "approved"' date=' they are reviewed and published.
[/quote']

In This Tread: People get REAL hung up on semantics

1.5k · July 10, 2011

Just THIS thread?

19k · July 10, 2011

That's impossible. CITO without caching is just picking up litter. The name is not synonymous with picking up litter or generally cleaning up.

Caches are not "approved"' date=' they are reviewed and published.
[/quote']

In This Tread: People get REAL hung up on semantics

Actually, I believe it would be 'VERY' hung up.

July 10, 2011

I have done several "tunnel hides" in the city. We are also having a problem with thieves stealing grates to storm and sewer drains as well as man hole covers and taking them to recycling centers. I understand that a storm drain (the kind that are near sidewalks) cost about $300 to replace and thieves get around $20 bucks or so for recycling. Is it possible the missing drain was stolen and might be replaced at some point?

6.1k · July 10, 2011

That's impossible. CITO without caching is just picking up litter. The name is not synonymous with picking up litter or generally cleaning up.

Caches are not "approved"' date=' they are reviewed and published.
[/quote']

In This Tread: People get REAL hung up on semantics

You meant "thread". And quit getting hung up, over other people getting hung up over semantics.

July 10, 2011

I'm going to pretend I left myself open to critique, in the name of comedy... :anibad:

1.2k · July 10, 2011

http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.aspx?guid=7f049673-17a2-429e-b097-cd6b161ed106

1k · July 11, 2011

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

come and hunt me down, buddy.

6.1k · July 11, 2011

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

come and hunt me down, buddy.

Sorry, I don't want your skateboard, and I don't think I could pry the gps out of your hands. :rolleyes:

Edited July 11, 2011 by 4wheelin_fool

July 11, 2011

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

come and hunt me down, buddy.

Apparently he really lives through the words of his signature.

2.1k · July 11, 2011

There is a truly awesome mystery cache located just steps away from my office door.

http://coord.info/GC1H9V5

I have it on my watch list because I really enjoy reading the logs when someone finds it.

I also have it on my ignore list, because there's just no way I am going to go in there.

3.1k · July 11, 2011

Official bottom line would be: have you got adequate permission? I seriously doubt it.

Well there isn't any "no trespassing" signs... ha ha ha.

It's like the old saying "It's only illegal if you get caught".

Not cool. Cachers have a reasonable expectation that your cache doesn't require them to break a law.

I found one in a drain many, many years ago, and yeah, it was awesome. One of my favorites. It has been archived for years, and what you see on the page is exactly how it was originally listed.

I'm all for it IF AND ONLY IF it's legal and reasonably safe (I know safety can never be fully guaranteed anywhere).

Edited July 11, 2011 by Dinoprophet

3.8k · July 11, 2011

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

come and hunt me down, buddy.

Are you the reason someone created the Ban Kids thread, of which I have not read yet?

3.1k · July 11, 2011

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

come and hunt me down, buddy.

Honeymoon's over... :signalviolin:

But, back ON topic:

There is a cacher (Vortexecho) in the triangle area of NC that has hidden a bunch of popular and well-made "urban tunnel" caches. (for example)It's possible, but entirely up to the reviewer to give the green light based on their knowledge of the surrounding requirements for permissions, etc.

July 11, 2011

Storm drains can be a real problem where flash floodings happen. But so can creek beds. I'd never let my kids go in one but if I was alone and found one.....

14k · July 11, 2011

Storm drains can be a real problem where flash floodings happen. But so can creek beds. I'd never let my kids go in one but if I was alone and found one.....

One of my favorite caches is one that is in a storm drain built over a creek bed. It's 20-30 feet wide and 8-10 feet high but I still wouldn't want to be in there during a flood. The creek bed runs under the parking lot in a large strip mall and the cache is about 200 feet in from the edge of the parking lot. There are skirted light poles throughout the parking lot, including one at "ground zero". There are quite a few DNFs (and even a few Need Maintenance logs) which say something like, "I searched the obvious location and didn't find it. It's probably missing."

19k · July 11, 2011

Storm drains can be a real problem where flash floodings happen. But so can creek beds. I'd never let my kids go in one but if I was alone and found one.....

One of my favorite caches is one that is in a storm drain built over a creek bed. It's 20-30 feet wide and 8-10 feet high but I still wouldn't want to be in there during a flood. The creek bed runs under the parking lot in a large strip mall and the cache is about 200 feet in from the edge of the parking lot. There are skirted light poles throughout the parking lot, including one at "ground zero". There are quite a few DNFs (and even a few Need Maintenance logs) which say something like, "I searched the obvious location and didn't find it. It's probably missing."

That sounds like my first storm drain cache. BFlentje will know which one I'm talking about. The coordinates put me smack dab in the center of a (very low speed) intersection in a new housing development. I spent the longest time looking around there, trying to figure out where one could even begin to hide a cache. Pavement, curbs, manhole covers, streetlights (without skirts), signs, and that was about it. Then, the light came on... "manhole covers?" No, I didn't try to remove those, but it made me realize that they had to lead to somewhere. So I expanded my search and eventually spotted an (as-yet) ungrated opening to a large concrete tunnel.

July 11, 2011

They publish it after they approve it. So sue me.

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

Water runoff drains may not be sewer drains, but sometimes they do have sewage due to leaking pipes. A strong smell is usually an indicator of that.

So if a cache is put up for review and is not published, why is that?

19k · July 11, 2011

They publish it after they approve it. So sue me.

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

Water runoff drains may not be sewer drains, but sometimes they do have sewage due to leaking pipes. A strong smell is usually an indicator of that.

So if a cache is put up for review and is not published, why is that?

That is called "failing review" and "refusing to publish" :lol:

18.9k · July 11, 2011

They publish it after they approve it. So sue me.

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

Water runoff drains may not be sewer drains, but sometimes they do have sewage due to leaking pipes. A strong smell is usually an indicator of that.

So if a cache is put up for review and is not published, why is that?

Failure to meet the guidelines. Caches are published only after being reviewed for compliance with the guidelines.

July 11, 2011

These are storm drains not sewer drains. Storm drains don't have the dangerous gas issues that sewers have.

I am familiar with a very hard storm drain cache that was created by the person who designed the storm system.

The most dangerous elements to these caches is slip & falls and bumped heads. There hasn't been an issue with cachers trying these during thunderstorms.

I am not too sure about what your sewer systems are like there, but here we have CSO's (Combined Sewer Overflows). Essentially, sewage and storm water flow through the same pipes, separated by a small wall. When there is a stress on the sewer treatment plant, the sewage overflows into the storm water and is directly discharged into the local creeks or lakes. While this system (kind of) worked when the sewers were first put in, they were installed anywhere from 50 to 100+ years ago, and since then, the Niagara Region has expanded immensely. As such, it can take as little as 0.5 mm (0.019 inches) of rainfall to cause an overflow, not to mention that the pipes have deteriorate over the last 100 years, and cracks have formed between the two waste streams.

As such, an "innocent" storm water pipe will still be filled with fecal matter, not to mention the bacteria that feeds on the feces. With the presence of these microbes, it can lead to the presence of hydrogen sulphide (H2S), carbon monoxide (CO), methane (CH4), as well as other toxic or explosive gasses.

Please also keep in mind that many sewage/storm water systems are linked. Just because it is not raining where you are, doesn't mean that it is not raining elsewhere and that a wall of water is not rushing towards you.

Storm water systems are not necessarily meant to control only precipitation. The Welland Canal runs right through the region, and it has been set up so that if there is an emergency, millions of litres of water can be quickly dumped from the canal into the local waterways and storm water systems.

There is no escaping that amount of water, and there would be no warning.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Viridios

18.9k · July 11, 2011

These are storm drains not sewer drains. Storm drains don't have the dangerous gas issues that sewers have. ....

Not generally speaking - but the very design and enclosed space certainly allows for the rapid buildup of gasses. Rotting plant matter swept into the system alone could possibly create a serious issue. Just not worth the risk.

July 11, 2011

My VERY FIRST cache was in a storm drain, that followed a creek under a road. Still on my top 5 list. Sure it was a bit dangerous, but after checking the weather all over Ohio and approving the skies ourselves, we hunted it down. Very fun, sad to see it archived.

The VERY BEST cache that I have done, and I know half the people who have done it have called it their absolute favorite. It is called "Wyrmholes" by Ernie66, one of geocaching.com's greatest puzzlers. The entire battle against "Lord-Wal-De-Mart" was fought in the storm drains underneath a Wal-Mart parking lot. He filled the tunnels up, starting with a 10-page booklet giving maps, clues, puzzles, and safety warnings and then we had to solve the whole thing. Took us 6 days. If you ever get to do this cache, DO IT! (But check the weather first) Here is the cache page: GC1ZAD1 or http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=f7932457-cdd9-49c9-bc8a-3daa434795d4

Check it out!!

5.7k · July 11, 2011

I did one in Germany that was probably at least 500 meters in a pipe about 3' tall at most. (The hint was something along the lines of "a skateboard would be helpful." Weather was bone dry when I was there, thankfully. (And my knees were killing me.)

We had one in a tall, wide culvert in Charlottesville, VA, in which normal water flow was about an inch. But we were very specific about warning people not to enter if it was raining. It was a couple hundred feet in. We archived it, as it washed away once and couldn't stay dry, but one of the local cachers revived it as their cache. (Hope it's anchored well and sealed tight!)

I found a great tunnel here in Montgomery and was tempted to go in and find a good spot for the cache deep in the tunnels, but it's very flat here and it tends to flood pretty easily. So I hid it at the entrance. If someone wants to explore, they can knock themselves out, but they're not drowning on my account.

1.5k · July 11, 2011

These are storm drains not sewer drains. Storm drains don't have the dangerous gas issues that sewers have. ....

Not generally speaking - but the very design and enclosed space certainly allows for the rapid buildup of gasses. Rotting plant matter swept into the system alone could possibly create a serious issue. Just not worth the risk.

Generally speaking, I disagree. Storm drains are designed to drain water and, therefore have numerous "holes" that drain water into the drainage system.as a result an airflow develops due to cool air dropping. that's why you'll notice a "wind" at the entrance of these tunnels.

Having been in several drainage tinnels, I can confirm the air exchange and the lack of sufficient decaying matter to create gas problems.

In Las Vegas, hundreds of people live in these tunnels without gas buildup issues (note the mention of the 'breeze' in the tunnels). http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/2651937/The-people-living-in-drains-below-Las-Vegas.html

6.1k · July 12, 2011

They publish it after they approve it. So sue me.

No, they don't approve anything, only publish.

Water runoff drains may not be sewer drains, but sometimes they do have sewage due to leaking pipes. A strong smell is usually an indicator of that.

So if a cache is put up for review and is not published, why is that?

Failure to meet the guidelines. Caches are published only after being reviewed for compliance with the guidelines.

There were a few threads I recall regarding the verbiage change. Published does not imply that they condone it, only are listing it. There is a difference.

Notice in OT there is a thread pinned by "Keystone Approver", but who is now known as only Keystone. Listing is not endorsing.

Edited July 12, 2011 by 4wheelin_fool

6.1k · July 12, 2011

I explored a rather extensive storm drain system the other day. The entrance was 10 feet high by 20 feet wide and went about a half mile. There was another ancient system just after it which seemed to be about 100 years old or so. The smaller tunnels coming out of the newer part were about 4 feet wide, but were only for parking lot drainage. I thought it was pretty interesting.

July 12, 2011

I just saw some pictures of a tunnel geocache. I have changed my mind and I would definitely not recommend making a tunnel geocache because there is some pretty disgusting and creepy things down there and if you got in trouble and you couldn't get out you would be stuck inside there. Also you could get bitten by a snake or you could get bitten by something else.

July 12, 2011

I just saw some pictures of a tunnel geocache. I have changed my mind and I would definitely not recommend making a tunnel geocache because there is some pretty disgusting and creepy things down there and if you got in trouble and you couldn't get out you would be stuck inside there. Also you could get bitten by a snake or you could get bitten by something else.

That is anywhere ever involved with geocaching. Like when I had to reach my bare hand into the concealed nook of a public mail drop box, who knows what could have been up there...

3.1k · July 12, 2011

I just saw some pictures of a tunnel geocache. I have changed my mind and I would definitely not recommend making a tunnel geocache because there is some pretty disgusting and creepy things down there and if you got in trouble and you couldn't get out you would be stuck inside there. Also you could get bitten by a snake or you could get bitten by something else.

That is anywhere ever involved with geocaching. Like when I had to reach my bare hand into the concealed nook of a public mail drop box, who knows what could have been up there...

:lostsignal: A cache was in a mail drop box?! <_<

I remember when I got my folks hooked on geocaching. I would reach into holes in/under trees...under logs...whatever. And the whole time my mother was standing back saying how she would never want to do such things due to the snakes, spiders, insects, vermin, etc that could bite you. And now they're the ones without fears. One cache had my folks in a storm sewer, and a cottonmouth slithered its way right between the legs of my pop. Cache at your own risk... :anibad:

3.8k · July 12, 2011

That sounds like my first storm drain cache. BFlentje will know which one I'm talking about. The coordinates put me smack dab in the center of a (very low speed) intersection in a new housing development. I spent the longest time looking around there, trying to figure out where one could even begin to hide a cache. Pavement, curbs, manhole covers, streetlights (without skirts), signs, and that was about it. Then, the light came on... "manhole covers?" No, I didn't try to remove those, but it made me realize that they had to lead to somewhere. So I expanded my search and eventually spotted an (as-yet) ungrated opening to a large concrete tunnel.

Unfortunately, the city caught on real quick and the drain is now gated. That was one of my favorite caches to watch as a cache owner.

And now you know the secret to one of my other caches down on the Cannon Valley Trail

19k · July 12, 2011

That sounds like my first storm drain cache. BFlentje will know which one I'm talking about. The coordinates put me smack dab in the center of a (very low speed) intersection in a new housing development. I spent the longest time looking around there, trying to figure out where one could even begin to hide a cache. Pavement, curbs, manhole covers, streetlights (without skirts), signs, and that was about it. Then, the light came on... "manhole covers?" No, I didn't try to remove those, but it made me realize that they had to lead to somewhere. So I expanded my search and eventually spotted an (as-yet) ungrated opening to a large concrete tunnel.

And now you know the secret to one of my other caches down on the Cannon Valley Trail

You mean, the one I did maintenance on for you this spring?

Sewer Tunnel Caches

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