mgleed Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I appreciate that UTM coordinates are displayed various places on the Geocaching web site. However, Latitude/Longitude coords are antiquated. All USGS maps are done in UTM. UTM is much easier to read and make sense of. For example you can take your current UTM coord and intuitively know how much distance to your destination due to the direct relationship between UTM and metric measurements. I would love to see the web site move in this direction in regards to fields where you enter coords (the option to enter in Latitude/Longitude can still be an option) and in encouraging users to post in UTM. I know this may not be popular everywhere, and that some users like what they are use to. However, Latitude/Longitude makes about as much sense as does the Imperial system of measurement. In the real world UTM makes your navigation projects simpler and quicker. Link to comment
+parkrrrr Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ka-bar:All USGS maps are done in UTM. UTM is much easier to read and make sense of. For example you can take your current UTM coord and intuitively know how much distance to your destination due to the direct relationship between UTM and metric measurements. USGS maps are also done in NAD 1927. Should we switch to that? Quick, tell me how far between 16T E 651437 N 4548038 and 17S E 364877 N 3940177. And what zone is the north pole in again? Oops, trick question, the polar regions are never mapped in UTM; most people use UPS (a completely different projection) for them. Seriously, UTM is good for some things, and geodetic is good for other things. For coordinates you can remember and you can enter into the eTrex you just bought and haven't read the manual for yet, geodetic is the way to go. Link to comment
+Logscaler and Red Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 While we are at it, Why not switch over to metric size containers also? UTM is fine for a lot of things but I also like being able to rough in how much distance there is between numbers per Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy response. TTFRN, logscaler Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 GPSr's come out of the box rarin' to go with Lat/Long. Go look at the "Getting Started" forum and say a silent prayer for the folks who are overwhelmed by the new technology they've bought for hunting tupperware. If the first thing they had to do was convert their unit to read in UTM, it'd be an unfriendly introduction to a fun sport. For the majority of cachers, Lat/Long works just fine. For an advanced user like yourself, who knows how to use a map, that's why the UTM info. is provided supplementally. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x If there's no accounting for stupidity, then why do I need to file a tax return? Link to comment
Jeremy Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Decimal Lat/Lon is da bomb. Can't you do the Great Circle calculation in your head? Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I'm all for switching everything to metric, but as for UTM, I beg to differ with you. It is a false grid system, good for keeping distances equal in a limited area, but not good for portraying reality. North is not north, but curves. One zone does not match the next. As for Lat/Long being antiquated, it is UTM that is for the ''Flat-Earth'' crowd. Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 May I quote Manifold.com: ''Like the State Plane Coordinate System or Gauss Kruger, UTM is a living fossil. It was created for use in expert hands as a means of dealing with the technological limitations of an earlier era. When used with skill as originally intended it still functions well within its intended uses. The problem with UTM (as with the State Plane and Gauss Kruger systems) is that it is constantly misused in civil applications by inexpert users who do not realize the limitations built into the system.'' UTM works well for short range navigation. That's about it. Link to comment
+Chris n Maria Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ka-bar:All USGS maps are done in UTM. Well glad to see you are thinking of the rest of us! UTM is of absolutly no use in europe where each countries maps are done to a different grid system. The world is slightly bigger than the 50 states (51 if you include the UK!). So i suggest we base everything on the northern Irish grid system because I have a couple of maps that use that. Is that OK with everyone? Bear rescues a speciality! London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net Link to comment
+leatherman Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Chris n Maria: So i suggest we base everything on the northern Irish grid system because I have a couple of maps that use that. Is that OK with everyone? If you do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do. Mokita! Link to comment
+Mr. Snazz Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Some units don't have multiple datums... I suppose I was lucky, but the GPS I started out with, a StreetPilot, only displays WGS-84... Was this an early consumer-GPS default? Link to comment
+parkrrrr Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 WGS-84 is the official datum of the Global Positioning System. As such, it's the only option on most older GPS units. Link to comment
dave and jaime Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 quote:Originally posted by logscaler:While we are at it, Why not switch over to metric size containers also? UTM is fine for a lot of things but I also like being able to rough in how much distance there is between numbers per Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy response. TTFRN, logscaler didnt george bush esentially end the offical use of the US Customary system in 1991. no other industrialised nation in the world today use anything other than the metric system and i think the only other nations holding out are liberia and burma. as for utms, i know that utms make distance calculation on a single map sheet simple, being based on the metric system, but doesnt their accuracy degrade on the extremities of a sheet as they assume the world is flat? Link to comment
+elifish Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I used to use only UTM, but geocaching cured me of it, though I would like an option to post new caches in both UTM and LAt/Long. Knowing both systems only makes you a better cacher! elifish Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 UTM antiquated? Hell UTM was around before GPS systems. If anyting it's vice versa. However I like the way the system is with the alternate for UTM. Don't change it. Wherever you go there you are. Link to comment
skydiver Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Renegade Knight:UTM antiquated? Hell UTM was around before GPS systems. If anyting it's vice versa. However I like the way the system is with the alternate for UTM. Don't change it. Wherever you go there you are. Yup, and AM Radio was around long before digital satellite TV, so obviously it's the satellite TV that's antiquated. --------------------------------------- "We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things." Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) --------------------------------------- Link to comment
+mrcpu Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by logscaler:While we are at it, Why not switch over to metric size containers also? UTM is fine for a lot of things but I also like being able to rough in how much distance there is between numbers per Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy response. TTFRN, logscaler Metric eh! Sounds good to us up here in the North Pole!!! LOL Cheers, Rob Mobile Cache Command Link to comment
+mrcpu Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by EraSeek:UTM works well for short range navigation. That's about it. I might point out that MGRS (UTM displayed differently) IS very very important. The reality is that even IF every soldier in the battlefield (or forest firefighter, park ranger, researcher etc etc) had a GPSr, reading Lat/lon off a map and verbally relaying it is not as easy as MGRS/UTM. For example it's a lot easier to say "drop the bomb on 1234 5678" (and read it from a map) then it is to say the same thing in Lat Long, not to mention trying to read it off a map while under enemy fire! Perhaps someday each soldier will have a HUD with builtin GPS and radio allowing them to view a digital map and pass coordinate information to each other. Till then, if your talking about actually getting your boots muddy, MGRS/UTM are "da bomb" Cheers, Rob Mobile Cache Command Link to comment
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