Placing geocaches in/near parking lots

[enchantedmitten]

There are some geocaches in my area that are hidden off in wooded areas close off store or strip mall parking lots. My kids like these because they usually are pretty easy to find. Do you need to get permission to place these kinds of caches? I don't even know who you'd ask. My kids really want to hide a geocache of their own like this. What about placement in a public park? Thanks!

[+briansnat]

If it is private property you should always get permission. Whether people actually do is a different story.

[enchantedmitten]

Thanks for the quick response! I guess I just don't know if these parking lots are considered public or private...What about a geocache placement in a park in our town? Just want to make sure we are doing things correctly. We have found 48 caches and are ready to hide our first :-)

[+kwvers!]

LPc's Rock

[+NYPaddleCacher]

There are some geocaches in my area that are hidden off in wooded areas close off store or strip mall parking lots. My kids like these because they usually are pretty easy to find. Do you need to get permission to place these kinds of caches? I don't even know who you'd ask. My kids really want to hide a geocache of their own like this. What about placement in a public park? Thanks!

 

It seems like there are two questions here.

 

If a cache is placed *in* a parking lot, that area is likely managed by one of the business which provides the parking spaces. If it's in a strip mall (or larger mall) there may be managed by a larger corporation. Wooded areas close to parking lots might be part of the same parcel as the parking lot or it could be private property owned/managed by someone else.

 

Finding out who owns/manages the land can be tricky but many city/counties have online property tax maps that can be used. Check if your city has GIS maps online.

 

There is no single answer for public parks as each may be managed by a separate entity (city/town/county parks) and each may set their own policies regarding what activities are allowed.

[+d+n.s]

With public parks: If all other research fails, you could always go down to the first log in a cache near the park. You should find a log by the person who published it. It will probably just say "published"

 

You might have some luck sending that person (likely the area's reviewer) a quick and friendly question about who you should contact to get permission for a city/county/state park in your area.

 

I did this and my reviewer told me that in Austin:

City parks are free and clear. The city will let me know if they have decided my cache is a problem.

County parks need permission from a certain person.

State Parks in TX have a geocache submission process.

 

Even with permission of course, you should still avoid placing caches that might cause a bomb scare. If you do place one IN a parking lot, I would make sure it's a clear container and clearly labeled as ageocache.

In a forest NEAR a parking lot, I might still do the same, but if I did camo the cache I would probably put an official looking sticker or stencil on it (maybe on several sides) just to be safe.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

All things considered, I'd aim for a tree in a park before a tree at a mall.

 

Best of luck!

[Mr.Yuck]

Thanks for the quick response! I guess I just don't know if these parking lots are considered public or private...What about a geocache placement in a park in our town? Just want to make sure we are doing things correctly. We have found 48 caches and are ready to hide our first :-)

 

The "in" parking lot, or "next to" parking lots question? More complicated and controversial then you might have ever imagined. Yes, it's almost always private property, but lets put it this way; do it, and it will probably get published.

 

Town Park? Generally not required, if there isn't a local geocaching policy in place in your town.

[enchantedmitten]

Thanks for all the help everyone!!! Didn't realize how many angles there were to my question!:-) Glad I asked. Like the idea of asking the person who has already placed a cache in my area. I am relatively new to this, but have seen alot of the same names popping up as "hiders"

[+geodarts]

Do you need to get permission to place these kinds of caches? I don't even know who you'd ask. My kids really want to hide a geocache of their own like this. What about placement in a public park? Thanks!

 

The Fundamental Placement Guidelines state; "Obtain the landowner's and/or land manager's permission before you hide any geocache, whether placed on private or public property." You are asked to read and abide by the caching guidelines before a cache is published.

 

As others have stated, permission issues may vary on public property depending on the land manager's policy. Some parks have formal or informal policies. Various local caching groups have often worked with park officials or land managers - if you live in such an area or know local cachers who have placed similar caches, you might want to ask them for advice about a particular area.

 

As to private property, I don't think it is always necessary to get out the tax maps - the manager or store owner may be able to approve it or direct you to the appropriate person. But then again I have never placed a cache in a parking lot.

Edited July 6, 2011 by mulvaney

[+A & J Tooling]

If the store the property is 'near' is a chain or a franchise, the store manager will not be in a position to authorize a cache unless they own the property themselves. Not likely.

 

Of course, out of all the caches I've done so far (120'ish), I'd say 80 percent never had permission to be placed.

[Clan Riffster]

I guess I just don't know if these parking lots are considered public or private.

I guess that depends on what kind of parking lot it is. Are you talking about a parking lot for a privately owned business, or are you talking about a parking lot for a park? Locally, (to me), property is owned either by a Government entity, by a corporate entity or by an individual. Of these three, the only one which could be considered public are those lands owned by the Government, such as parks or wilderness areas.

 

If you pull into a Wally World parking lot, would you really have any doubt that it is private property? What about the parking lot for a mom & pops business? Any doubt there?

 

To expand upon what Mulvaney posted, the guidelines go on to say "If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of the reviewer and those seeking the cache."

 

I don't see a whole lot of wiggle room in that guideline. It seems to be pretty clear that you have to obtain permission for a cache on private property, and you have to note this on the cache page. However, all is not lost. This portion of the guidelines is in competition with the "Please don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can" guideline as the guideline most ignored by cache owners and reviewers.

 

You could conceivably hide a cache in every business parking lot in your area and never be questioned by your reviewer. You would be idolized by those folks who believe quantity trumps quality, as well as those folks who refuse to walk more than 15' from their air conditioned SUVs, for fear of accidentally burning a calorie.

[Clan Riffster]

If the store the property is 'near' is a chain or a franchise, the store manager will not be in a position to authorize a cache unless they own the property themselves.

This is not necessarily accurate. When a corporation leases a property, that lease comes with certain legal rights for the corporation. Typically, these rights extend to placing temporary enhancements on the property, such as shopping cart holders and business signs, as well as who can utilize the property for which purpose, such as limiting certain parking areas for customers of specific businesses.

 

When the corporation appoints an employee to management status, that appointment usually includes some degree of empowerment for making decisions for the property. The degree of that empowerment is subject to debate, and the manager in question may, some day, find himself in hot water due to them pushing too many envelopes, but I have little doubt that they could authorize hiding a cache, unless told otherwise by the corporation.

 

I think the biggest problem is finding a manager who is willing to push that envelope, knowing that his decision may someday be scrutinized by the corporation.

[+A & J Tooling]

Are you willing to accept responsibility for someone getting fired over something like this? Why would you put someone in that position? Just because they're management doesn't exempt them from bad judgement calls.

[+geodarts]

Are you willing to accept responsibility for someone getting fired over something like this? Why would you put someone in that position? Just because they're management doesn't exempt them from bad judgement calls.

 

The guidelines that people agree to follow do not say that no permission is needed if you think the manager might get fired. So one answer might be that if you aren't willing to take responsibility for obtaining permission, you should not place a cache in or around that particular location. By the same token, I would not want to accept responsibility for people who search for a cache, believing that I had obtained adequate permission for them to be there.

 

So if I wanted to place a cache in or around a store, I would talk to the manager first. If he or she lacks authority over that particular location, I would probably be able to get referred to the appropriate person. And at the very least I would want to ensure that the store knows that people will be poking around the property, which seems like a matter of common courtesy. But again these are all reasons why I would not place a cache in such areas.

Edited July 6, 2011 by mulvaney

[+Chokecherry]

Last summer as I was preparing to hide caches (which didn't get hid due to a couple issues now) even though they were on public property I thought the most responsible thing I could do was ask for permission. That way the people who needed to know knew they were there and if there were any issues they could be resolved on the front end. I got tentative warning about a potential issue which I heeded and why I'm waiting for the main one I want to place.

 

It's also being a good steward of geocaching. Sure you could be all sneaky and hide things without permission but wouldn't you rather do the right thing? Like talk to the people in charge, give a good name to the hobby? I personally would rather do that because then it makes my tasks easier in the future since I can give my own references. I can say, "Hey I worked so and so and put a cache here you can ask so and so if there have been any issues if you're worried." Small towns are great like that.