Bad cache - log etiquette?

July 5, 2011

Perhaps it's just me....nobody else in the logs seemed overly annoyed....however:

On a recent caching route i'd plotted ~20 random caches, not part of a series by different co's.

Half way through we came across a cache that was disgusting, a container seemingly purposfully covered in engine grease. After reading the description it said "bring gloves or hand sanitisation to retreive container". Wtf? Why?

This frustrated/annoyed me. I simply don't see what the point is. Why not cover the next one in dog feces and tell me to bring gloves??

So i left a comment warning other wouldbe cachers of the potential consequences. This lead to a volley of abuse from the co.

So i'm just wondering, should i have not commented? Should i blame myself for not reading every word of the 20 something caches we were attempting that day?

I don't see what fun something like this brings to the sport, there were some people in the comme ts 'thanking' the co for the grease on their hands/gps/penknife/camera/clothes etc

3k · July 5, 2011

Not only is that disgusting, it is a pollutant that will leach into the water supply. I would have posted a needs maintenance on it, and no way would I have thanked anyone for that cache. Not funny!

7k · July 5, 2011

Why not cover the next one in dog feces and tell me to bring gloves??

You mean kinda like this one? :laughing:

July 5, 2011

If you know that the cache has some how violated the guidelines then send the local reviewer a note. Ignore the cache or all the caches from the CO.

18.9k · July 5, 2011

It is written into the description. Sort of a 'buyer be aware' sort of thing.

I would hardly equate dog feces and engine grease.

Nobody said you HAVE TO find any cache. At any rate - Cite whichever guideline you think has been violated and report it if you must.

July 5, 2011

Why not cover the next one in dog feces and tell me to bring gloves??

You mean kinda like this one?

Dude! That's gross! Why would anyone want to place a cache like that!?

2.3k · July 5, 2011

I would venture to say that it was noted on the cache page. I likely would have ignored such a cache because I don't feel like gloving up to find a cache. I have unintentionally stuck my hands into worse stuff than engine grease while caching. But I wouldn't find it amusing and probably would have walked away when it ceased being amusing. I don't need to find every cache. One not so funny one off the list won't kill me.

9.3k · July 5, 2011

Perhaps it's just me....nobody else in the logs seemed overly annoyed.

Maybe. Maybe not. I like to be prepared when I hunt, so I (almost) always read the cache page first. If I had read a cache page telling me, "The only tip I will give - is come prepared in terms of hand protection and/or hand washing facilities!!!", I would probably heed the cache owner's advice, or, if unable to do so, I would either experiment with retrieving the cache without getting icky, or skip it all together. If I did somehow get goobered up with grease when retrieving a cache, I would probably be a bit grumpy. I wouldn't flame the owner on the cache page though. After all, they gave you fair warning.

On a side note, did you sign the log?

I ask because when I was searching for the cache in question, I noticed that there was another cache in your profile that you logged as a "Find", though in your log, you were quite clear that you did not find it. Just thought that a bit odd. :unsure:

Edited July 5, 2011 by Clan Riffster

July 5, 2011

That's why I always thoroughly read the cache page. Seems to me that if the warning is on the page then you really have no reason to complain about it unless it does somehow violate a rule.

2.3k · July 5, 2011

I think part of the issue is how the log was written in this particular case too. There's pointing out the obvious with this cache that is messy (which is clearly stated on the cache page) and then there is lacking tact.

I lack much tact at times but I usually don't preface it for something akin to "DO NOT SEARCH FOR THIS CACHE!"

July 6, 2011

I think I might prefer the poop to the grease. It dries up quicker and is easier to get off the hands. If you reeally want to PO the CO you could always clean off the gooop.

7.9k · July 6, 2011

I think I might prefer the poop to the grease. It dries up quicker and is easier to get off the hands. If you reeally want to PO the CO you could always clean off the gooop.

My thoughts exactly.

Anything water-based would be no problem.

July 6, 2011

On a side note, did you sign the log?

I ask because when I was searching for the cache in question, I noticed that there was another cache in your profile that you logged as a "Find", though in your log, you were quite clear that you did not find it. Just thought that a bit odd.

Oops thanks for pointing out, fixed. You must have been bored to hunt through all that!

Edited July 6, 2011 by Svengalie

2k · July 6, 2011

I have a friend who wanted to make a cache series of disgusting things like that...hand through goo and stuff like that.

I thought your topic meant, how do you say a cache is bad when the CO did not mean it to be bad but you felt it was bad?

However, that is not what you posted, you are referring to the way the CO intended the cache to be. Well, if he puts engine grease on a cache and explicitly said so, I see nothing wrong in giving your opinion about said grease.

Now if it was a crappy cache like say someone putting a tack in the tree, and you were unsure if you wanted to go all geocoppy on him in your log, that would be a different dilemma.

3.4k · July 6, 2011

I've heard of ooey, gooey caches before. If you were forewarned and still didn't like it, there's always the "just leave it alone and move on" approach (I know this is usually the less traveled path, but it is always there.

July 6, 2011

June 5 by hodgster (70 found)

Liked this one,TFTC

Thats what one person said about the cache- which is GC2GE3C Sowbrook heap.

Apparently it has one favorite. I think that the CO meant to cover the cache with engine grease for two reasons-

1) To deter muggles. The smelliness and feeling might stop muggles from coming or touching the container. Cacher would be warned in advance.( hence the description)

2) To add to the theme of the cache location. Description says the area is usually abandoned, and there is an Ironmill nearby.

2.6k · July 6, 2011

In general - if I don't like a cache, I will say so (and why) in the logs. But I try to be polite and make it clear it is my opinion. If there are also good things about the cache I'll mention those too.

In this case - while I don't think I'd enjoy it, there were warnings and it could be seen as part of the challenge.

So if I did this cache and hated it, I would write something like: "To be fair I was warned, but I found handling this cache to be more unpleasant than I expected, I did not enjoy this one".

July 6, 2011

Just some weeks ago, I went for a FTF together with a friend.

We searched for about 30 minutes and stopped, because the location was simply disgusting: under a bride (spider webs and mould everywhere), somebody had used this place as a toilet, there were smelly animal bones around and when we took a look into a plastic bucket, we nearly throw up when we lifted the lid (who puts a bucket with fecals in the middle of the wood?? :blink: )

We logged a DNF and wrote into the log, that this was a "did not want to find - Cache" - and that the location was simply digusting. There are so many nice and wonderful places around here, and nobody needs another strange container under a bridge.

I returned a second time with another friend. She couldn't and didn't want to find the cache either. She logged that as well - honest but friendly.

July 6, 2011

Agree with some others... you can describe the experience in the log without using overly negative words like "disgusting".

i.e. - I found the cache container, but it was covered with grease. I didn't want to get myself messy, so I skipped this one.

19k · July 6, 2011

June 5 by hodgster (70 found)

Liked this one,TFTC

Thats what one person said about the cache- which is GC2GE3C Sowbrook heap.

Apparently it has one favorite. I think that the CO meant to cover the cache with engine grease for two reasons-

1) To deter muggles. The smelliness and feeling might stop muggles from coming or touching the container. Cacher would be warned in advance.( hence the description)

2) To add to the theme of the cache location. Description says the area is usually abandoned, and there is an Ironmill nearby.

I can't tell if the grease was added to fix a sticky situation, or to cause one, but several logs provide clues:

you do need to give it a good pull to extract it
it was a bit reluctant to come out but it was teased out, very gingerly.
Retrieved log only, as cache stuck fast!
Needed to get out the multi-tool to extract the blighter.

3.2k · July 6, 2011

It is written into the description. Sort of a 'buyer be aware' sort of thing.

I would hardly equate dog feces and engine grease.

.....

Totally agree.. dog feces can be washed off with little difficulty. Oil or grease will hang around all day unless you happen to carry soap in your bag.

2.1k · July 6, 2011

Just some weeks ago, I went for a FTF together with a friend.

We searched for about 30 minutes and stopped, because the location was simply disgusting: under a bride (spider webs and mould everywhere), somebody had used this place as a toilet, there were smelly animal bones around and when we took a look into a plastic bucket, we nearly throw up when we lifted the lid (who puts a bucket with fecals in the middle of the wood?? )

Maybe the disgusting stuff wasn't there when the CO placed the cache?

I posted a similar log on a cache. I mentioned how I could see that this had once been a beautiful spot, but it was now covered with empty beer bottles and rotting animal carcasses.

The CO sent me an email thanking me for the information, and archived the cache the next day.

2.2k · July 6, 2011

6 years ago I would have signed the log (because, no way would I NOT get any cache I was close to) and then written some harsh comments expressing my displeasure in the online log.

3 years ago I might have logged a DNF, and written some harsh comments expressing my displeasure in the online log.

If I came across a cache like that today, I would probably just move on without a second thought, not wasting my time by leaving a comment anywhere.

3.6k · July 6, 2011

Engine grease is nothing to me. I think its funny the CO did that. lol. :laughing:

July 6, 2011

Perhaps it's just me....nobody else in the logs seemed overly annoyed....however:

On a recent caching route i'd plotted ~20 random caches, not part of a series by different co's.

Half way through we came across a cache that was disgusting, a container seemingly purposfully covered in engine grease. After reading the description it said "bring gloves or hand sanitisation to retreive container". Wtf? Why?

This frustrated/annoyed me. I simply don't see what the point is. Why not cover the next one in dog feces and tell me to bring gloves??

So i left a comment warning other wouldbe cachers of the potential consequences. This lead to a volley of abuse from the co.

So i'm just wondering, should i have not commented? Should i blame myself for not reading every word of the 20 something caches we were attempting that day?

I don't see what fun something like this brings to the sport, there were some people in the comme ts 'thanking' the co for the grease on their hands/gps/penknife/camera/clothes etc

You didnt leave a warning. You told people to avoid the cache. No wonder why the CO was annoying at you.

Saying you dont like a cache is just fine. Telling people they shouldnt even bother isnt very cool. People can make up thier own minds by the logs.

5.7k · July 6, 2011

Just some weeks ago, I went for a FTF together with a friend.

We searched for about 30 minutes and stopped, because the location was simply disgusting: under a bride (spider webs and mould everywhere), somebody had used this place as a toilet, there were smelly animal bones around and when we took a look into a plastic bucket, we nearly throw up when we lifted the lid (who puts a bucket with fecals in the middle of the wood?? )

We logged a DNF and wrote into the log, that this was a "did not want to find - Cache" - and that the location was simply digusting. There are so many nice and wonderful places around here, and nobody needs another strange container under a bridge.

I returned a second time with another friend. She couldn't and didn't want to find the cache either. She logged that as well - honest but friendly.

So let me get this straight: after everything you experienced on your first visit...not only did you return, but you brought a friend with you? :blink:

Not going caching with you any time soon!

7.7k · July 6, 2011

Miss Manners would not have approved of your log. Since I'm not Miss Manners (in more ways than one), I'd just say that's not how I would have phrased my comments in the log.

You are, of course, free to say whatever you want in the log. The CO can delete, you can appeal to GS, and GS can do what it thinks is right. Is it worth the effort? Principle of it all and such? You have to decide. Remember this is supposed to be a game where you have fun.

Since the exchange of email is between you and the CO, you have to judge if what the CO said to you really constitutes abuse. If you feel it is really abusive, report it to Groundspeak.

Good luck and happy caching.

July 6, 2011

I sort of feel like it's against some of the general spirit and philosophy of geocaching or leave no trace or whatever outdoor loving lifestyle you perscribe to to put a pollutant on a cache. However, I really don't know much about it. Thats just a gut reaction.

For me, I rarely seek caches that look like something I wouldn't llike, but when I do find a "bad" one, I try to think of positive things to say before a gently dole out a critisism explicitly framed as an opinion.

I've actually gotten e-mails from COs of caches I kinda' thought were bad telling me they enjoyed my log or thanking me.

If somone takes the time to politely, thoughtfully and softly explain why an aspect of my cache might be bad or improved, I'll listen.

There is a right way to do it and a wrong way. Don't say anything you wouldn't say in person is a good placve to start. Treat it like your best friend spent 4 years writing the worst novel you've ever been exposed to.

5.7k · July 6, 2011

...i left a comment warning other wouldbe cachers of the potential consequences. This lead to a volley of abuse from the co.

Perhaps if you had worded it a bit differently than:

DO NOT BOTHER WITH THIS CACHE. quite why the co decided to coat it in engine grease then offer a suggestion of bringing gloves is quite beyond me. Disgusting.

the cache owner would not have reacted in such a manner.

July 7, 2011

Just some weeks ago, I went for a FTF together with a friend.

We searched for about 30 minutes and stopped, because the location was simply disgusting: under a bride (spider webs and mould everywhere), somebody had used this place as a toilet, there were smelly animal bones around and when we took a look into a plastic bucket, we nearly throw up when we lifted the lid (who puts a bucket with fecals in the middle of the wood?? )

We logged a DNF and wrote into the log, that this was a "did not want to find - Cache" - and that the location was simply digusting. There are so many nice and wonderful places around here, and nobody needs another strange container under a bridge.

I returned a second time with another friend. She couldn't and didn't want to find the cache either. She logged that as well - honest but friendly.

So let me get this straight: after everything you experienced on your first visit...not only did you return, but you brought a friend with you?

Not going caching with you any time soon!

No. My friend doesn't live in the area and comes for a visit every couple of weeks. She was missing some other caches next to those anyway and she wanted to see the location herself and have a look, if she could find the cache. I stayed in the car and waited for her ro return. I warned her, I did not look for the cache again and in the end she posted a DNF too.

But as we were driving in the same car (in hers, btw) I had no other chance than going with her again :rolleyes:

July 7, 2011

On reflection I shouldn't have wrote that. I actually gave up smoking a week ago and for those that know it can turn you into an incredibly tetchy human being!

I stand by the fact that I don't agree with the cache at all. But I've emailed the CO apologising and offered to remove my comment.

2.1k · July 7, 2011

It takes a big person to own up to a mistake and apologize. Kudos to you!

July 7, 2011

... But I've emailed the CO apologising and offered to remove my comment.

You should remove or change it, not just offer to change it. You've apparently already ruffled his feathers. You know he isn't happy with your log. He shouldn't have to explicitly request you to change it.

In this case, apparently there was a note on the cache page. You should either read cache pages before you hunt for them or be prepared for the unknown. If you choose to hunt for them without reading the cache page first, you should expect that there may be a few caches you decide not to approach, search for, or open the container.

While such a cache would not be attractive to me, I'm sure there are others out there (maybe auto mechanics)who wouldn't give a 2nd thought to a cache like that.

Around here, we have some local hiders who like to put their caches in the middle of a swamp, complete with snakes and alligators. To find some of them you have to wind up searching in an area that is at least waist deep in mucky, smelly, and honestly really nasty water. Some of these areas include free range cattle roaming about so you can imagine what some of the water smells like. Believe it or not, there are some folks here who enjoy the challenge and like to search out caches like this.

To each his own. I would not like to curtail caches just because they might be yucky to deal with. You don't have to find them all. If I run into a cache that does not appeal to me personally, I just don't search for it or log it if I don't want to get to or into the container. I certainly wouldn't criticize the CO for his cache just because it doesn't appeal to me personally, unless it violates the hiding guidelines.

July 7, 2011

Perhaps it's just me....nobody else in the logs seemed overly annoyed....however:

On a recent caching route i'd plotted ~20 random caches, not part of a series by different co's.

Half way through we came across a cache that was disgusting, a container seemingly purposfully covered in engine grease. After reading the description it said "bring gloves or hand sanitisation to retreive container". Wtf? Why?

This frustrated/annoyed me. I simply don't see what the point is. Why not cover the next one in dog feces and tell me to bring gloves??

So i left a comment warning other wouldbe cachers of the potential consequences. This lead to a volley of abuse from the co.

So i'm just wondering, should i have not commented? Should i blame myself for not reading every word of the 20 something caches we were attempting that day?

I don't see what fun something like this brings to the sport, there were some people in the comme ts 'thanking' the co for the grease on their hands/gps/penknife/camera/clothes etc

We really enjoy looking for caches but we also really enjoy skipping the caches we don't feel like going for.

Most CO's are kind enough to give good descriptions which let other cachers decide if they should try that one or not. It is entirely voluntary whether you wanted to get your hands covered in grease or not.

July 7, 2011

It takes a big person to own up to a mistake and apologize. Kudos to you!

It's only my wife I tell that I'm never wrong!

You should remove or change it, not just offer to change it.

You're right, done.

It is entirely voluntary whether you wanted to get your hands covered in grease or not.

I'd argue that. I don't feel the warning in the description was sufficient enough, lesson learnt. I wont be putting my hand into dark places without a torch in future

3k · July 7, 2011

I found the cache container, but it was covered with grease. I didn't want to get myself messy, so I skipped this one.

If I came across a cache covered in grease, I would have logged a Note that said pretty much that.

July 7, 2011

I once put a log entry on a cache that was in someones front yard....I hated it, i felt i had to find it, but i was to uncomfortable searching in someones front yard for a cache. I was pretty rude in my DNF Log, the owner sent me an email said it was for her grandmom who couldn't cache anymore, so she could see/talk to other cachers when they came to find it (didnt say in description)...I felt like the lowiest person on earth, I apologized, and changed the log entry...then ignored it so i wouldn't see it on the map or pq anymore.

9.3k · July 8, 2011

Around here, we have some local hiders who like to put their caches in the middle of a swamp, complete with snakes and alligators. To find some of them you have to wind up searching in an area that is at least waist deep in mucky, smelly, and honestly really nasty water. Some of these areas include free range cattle roaming about so you can imagine what some of the water smells like. Believe it or not, there are some folks here who enjoy the challenge and like to search out caches like this.

Hey! I resemble uh... I mean, resent that remark! :lol:

Hi Jerry! Where have you been hiding?

1.4k · July 8, 2011

Should i blame myself for not reading every word of the 20 something caches we were attempting that day?

I have no sympathy for anyone who does not read the cache page. I don't care if you are going for 20 or just 2 caches for the day. If you don't read the cache page, you shouldn't complain when something, listed there, bothers you.

9.3k · July 8, 2011

If you don't read the cache page, you shouldn't complain when something, listed there, bothers you.

That sums it up very well.

2.1k · July 8, 2011

Should i blame myself for not reading every word of the 20 something caches we were attempting that day?

I have no sympathy for anyone who does not read the cache page. I don't care if you are going for 20 or just 2 caches for the day. If you don't read the cache page, you shouldn't complain when something, listed there, bothers you.

I agree.

And I should point out that I frequently grab my yellow eTrex, pre-loaded with the caches in the area, and head out the door. All I have is the GC code and the coordinates. I find it more challenging that way, but sometimes I get surprises that I could have avoided by reading the cache page. When that happens, I have no one to blame but myself, so I don't complain about it.

July 8, 2011

If you don't read the cache page, you shouldn't complain when something, listed there, bothers you.

That sums it up very well.

Often extra clues are in the write up, not only things like bring gloves but more subtle ones that when you are in the area makes the light bulb go off.

Isn't reading the cache page like studying for a test?

Edited July 8, 2011 by Scrabblers

July 8, 2011

You should remove or change it, not just offer to change it.

You're right, done.

Hurray for you!

You just got a deposit into your karma bank.

Happy Caching!

July 8, 2011

Around here, we have some local hiders who like to put their caches in the middle of a swamp, complete with snakes and alligators. To find some of them you have to wind up searching in an area that is at least waist deep in mucky, smelly, and honestly really nasty water. Some of these areas include free range cattle roaming about so you can imagine what some of the water smells like. Believe it or not, there are some folks here who enjoy the challenge and like to search out caches like this.

Hey! I resemble uh... I mean, resent that remark!

Hi Jerry! Where have you been hiding?

Hey there! I was being cryptic about those caches, only noting they were waist deep. Had I said nipple deep it would have been a dead give away.

SwampyGirl enjoys finding your caches just as much as I do. I'm probably crazy, but I don't mind a little exposure to germy critters every so often. I think we live in too sterile a society in some respects and some exposure can help keep up our immune systems. After all, mankind hax survived many thousands of years without hand sanitizer.

We've been spending our time hiking some of the state forest trails working on a trailwalker patch. Just did our big radio event of the year last weekend, contacting stations from Hawaii to Maine, and Canada to Puerto Rico. It was my 36th consecutive year.

I need to check the local events and go to some more. I've been missing my geo-friends. Hope you and the rest of the Riffster clan are all doing well!

Bad cache - log etiquette?

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