my cache series denied

July 4, 2011

I started a mystery cache series where seekers had to answer questions about cancer (survival rates, etc) the reviewer denied it because he said I had an agenda and caching is suppose to be fun. I don't think I have an agenda, but I do have a purpose for the series - cancer awareness!! I disagree with the decision. This series is educational and hopefully will provide valuable info. Here is some text from one of my caches. Is there any chance of gettin this approved.

I'm frustrated. Gc.com needs a competitor. They've gotten quite arrogant.

Pancreatic cancer has one of the highest fatality rates of all cancers, and is the 4th highest cancer killer in the U.S. and internationally among both men and women. It is sometimes called a "silent killer" because early

pancreatic cancer often does not cause symptoms, and the later symptoms are usually nonspecific and varied.

Therefore, pancreatic cancer is often not diagnosed until it is advanced or has metastases to other areas. Most patients with pancreatic cancer experience pain, weight loss, or jaundice.

Cigarette smoking and improper gum and mouth care are two hypostasized causes of pancreatic cancer.

Famous people who have been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer:

Steve Jobs - Founder of Apple

Michael Landon

Patrick Swayze

Gene Upshaw - NFL

1.5k · July 4, 2011

Your agenda is cancer awareness, a public health (social) agenda. This violates the solicitation section of the listing guidelines.

Is there any chance of gettin this approved.

There's information in the last paragraph in the Introduction of listing guidelines that's relevant to your question.

1.7k · July 4, 2011

If all else fails, you could always put the information inside the cache, the Reviewer can't deny a cache for that, and you should be in the clear even if your local reviewer finds the cache.

Your best bet would to pay Groundspeak a couple hundred thousand to publish them. A diabetes group paid Groundspeak hundreds of thousands to spread awareness of that, if you have pockets deep enough any agenda is possible!

9.3k · July 4, 2011

I don't think I have an agenda

You do. Quite clearly. While your agenda is certainly a noble one, it is still an agenda. Because this silly little high tech hide & seek game is played all over our planet, by people from many vastly different social backgrounds, Groundspeak cannot effectively filter for such subjective things as "good" agendas versus "bad" agendas. Groundspeak decided that this game should be about finding boxes in the woods, (or film cans in parking lots), not about picking and choosing which agenda to support.

Groundspeak does allow for agendas on travel bugs and geocoins, which, if you insist on spreading the word about pancreatic cancer, may be a better route for you to take.

I'm frustrated. Gc.com needs a competitor.

There are three I can think of off the top of my head.

July 4, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

2.3k · July 4, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

That's mature....

1.5k · July 4, 2011

It's an agenda, admirable, but an agenda just the same.

You can count me as one of those who support the no-agenda guideline. Why? Because not all (any?) agendas are universally supported. There would be drama and angst that would take away from the enjoyment of the game.

July 4, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

That's mature....

Actually, its called sarcasm.

1k · July 4, 2011

I do have a purpose for the series - cancer awareness!!

That's an agenda.

1.2k · July 4, 2011

Groundspeak does not want to draw the line so they say no agenda. Cancer awareness is a good agenda, but would you want to do a cache based on abortion statistics? What about one on a certain religion?

2.4k · July 4, 2011

It's hard to get a cache denied when you've worked so hard on it. I'm sorry you were not able to put it out.

I believe strongly in Groundspeaks "no agenda" policy. I hope you spend some time thinking about agenda's you don't want to hear about while you're out having fun, perhaps with small children.

I don't want to hear about religious groups while caching. I don't want to hear about politics while caching. I'm sure (after just reading another thread) there are many people who don't want to hear about gay rights while caching.

I think Groundspeak has been very wise.

Cancer awareness is indeed a good cause. But as someone mentioned, they cannot take the road of deciding which causes are good and which are bad. That would just sink them deeply into a nasty quagmire that they'd never get out of.

Sure gay rights are important to many, but others don't want to hear about it while out having fun. Do you see where they could get in trouble on this? Then everyone is going to shout, BUT MY CAUSE IS GOOD!!! and we'd hear about politics, religion and gay rights just to name a few, while caching.

It's probably hard to see when they're your caches that have been denied. I'm sorry you ran into this problem. Try to take a step back and see the big picture once the initial sting is over. I know you were trying to do a good thing for the world and I applaud you for this. Thank you for caring enough to try.

July 4, 2011

Going off-topic for a second...

A diabetes group paid Groundspeak hundreds of thousands to spread awareness of that, if you have pockets deep enough any agenda is possible!

Where did you get that figure from Coldgears? I doubt G.S would reveal such information and if it did, I'd be shocked if you were remotely in the ballpark.

July 4, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

That's mature....

Actually, its called sarcasm.

Hehe

4.2k · July 4, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

and what exactly does the hide itself have to do with your cache description? :blink:

and tbh this is supposed to be fun, i don't care to read about the horrors of the diseases around on a cache page...there's plenty of ways for people to educate themselves

What about one on a certain religion?

hey, i was told my Flying Spaghetti Monster cache description was an agenda so i had to change it, hopefully everyone here knows that it is not really a religion but rather a parody :anibad:

Edited July 4, 2011 by t4e

July 4, 2011

It is too bad about your series being denied. I think it is a great idea. I understand why the no-soliciting rules are there. I just don't understand why there isn't an allowance for themed caches that are informational and not at all affiliated directly with any form of money taking. I.E. businesses and charities. After all aren't Earth caches all soliciting? You have to go to a specific place and learn information. And in many cases you have to pay to get to them or are encouraged to leave a donation.

8.6k · July 4, 2011

It is too bad about your series being denied. I think it is a great idea. I understand why the no-soliciting rules are there. I just don't understand why there isn't an allowance for themed caches that are informational and not at all affiliated directly with any form of money taking. I.E. businesses and charities. After all aren't Earth caches all soliciting? You have to go to a specific place and learn information. And in many cases you have to pay to get to them or are encouraged to leave a donation.

Many agendas are admirable -- many others are not.....

The problem is, where do you draw the line? Simple -- BEFORE you approve ANY of them. If it matters, I agree with that decision and I believe it is the best decision made. To avoid disagreements, arguments, bad feelings and yes, even lawsuits. Deny all agendas (good, bad or indifferent) and stand by that decision.

What you feel is a good agenda could quite possibly be offensive to another, and vice-versa.

EDIT: If you need to whine, whine away. It shan't do you any good. If you wish to pout, be my guest 'cuz it makes you look cute.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Gitchee-Gummee

July 4, 2011

In general, I agree with the Agenda rules (definitely dont want businesses, politics or religion in there), but if this falls foul of them, then maybe my approved cache http://coord.info/GC2Y3NC would as well (you could argue the 'agenda' here is to promote recycling).

However I've not seen the full details of the caches in question so there may be more to it than a general reference. I'd have to defer to the judgement of the reviewers.

July 5, 2011

Groundspeak does not want to draw the line so they say no agenda. Cancer awareness is a good agenda, but would you want to do a cache based on abortion statistics? What about one on a certain religion?

There has to be a joke somewhere here about abortion and a hide and go seek game .... :huh:

9.3k · July 5, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

That's mature....

Actually, its called sarcasm.

Which is universally accepted as an indicator of immaturity.

Especially when directed at a reasoned response geared toward helping you with a problem.

7.9k · July 5, 2011

Going off-topic for a second...

A diabetes group paid Groundspeak hundreds of thousands to spread awareness of that, if you have pockets deep enough any agenda is possible!

Where did you get that figure from Coldgears? I doubt G.S would reveal such information and if it did, I'd be shocked if you were remotely in the ballpark.

I think he is referring to the TB series, and the Geocoin series.

TBs and Geocoins are mostly immune to the agenda restrictions.

To the OP: Make yourself some 'Cancer Awareness' TBs.

If your pockets are deep enough, you could probably get a 'Cancer Awareness' Geocoin made with no troubles.

July 5, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

That's mature....

Actually, its called sarcasm.

Which is universally accepted as an indicator of immaturity.

Especially when directed at a reasoned response geared toward helping you with a problem.

Wow, universally accepted. That's broad. Encompasses a lot.

July 5, 2011

As suggested, you can make a TB... like this cancer awareness TB that we recently found and moved.

July 5, 2011

Sarcasm is a sign of intelligence...

19k · July 5, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

That's mature....

Actually, its called sarcasm.

That's mature.... :huh:

Seriously... I think that it has been made quite clear by now what is meant by an agenda. Cancer awareness is as much an agenda as euthanasia awareness. Would you really like to see geocaching reduced to a bunch of political statements? I sure don't!

8k · July 5, 2011

At one time you could possibly get a disease awareness cache approved. The guidelines use to say you couldn't solicit and that was taken to mean solicit donations (volunteering as well as money or goods). Later, the guidelines were tightened up so you couldn't specifically ask for anything - like "think about those who are suffering" or "live a healthy lifestyle". These generic calls to do something were deemed as solicitation. But you still could present some facts so long as you didn't ask the finders do anything with them. More recently, these facts couldn't be overbearing and had to have to do somewhat with the cache or the cache location.

I suspect that one could place a cache outside a hospital where someone you know was treated for cancer. You could then mention this person and add a few facts about their cancer. I suspect as well that a puzzle cache that used cancer facts as part of the puzzle could be published, again so long as there seems to be a reason for the theme other than just to promote an agenda.

Without the specifics, its hard to tell if the OP could rework the caches to be publishable.

19k · July 5, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

That's mature....

Actually, its called sarcasm.

Which is universally accepted as an indicator of immaturity.

Especially when directed at a reasoned response geared toward helping you with a problem.

Wow, universally accepted. That's broad. Encompasses a lot.

Wait!!! I know! That was more sarcasm, right?

7k · July 5, 2011

Cancer awareness is as much an agenda as euthanasia awareness. Would you really like to see geocaching reduced to a bunch of political statements? I sure don't!

Huh. Cancer is a disease, how can there be anything political about a disease? :huh:

4.2k · July 5, 2011

Sarcasm is a sign of intelligence...

19k · July 5, 2011

Cancer awareness is as much an agenda as euthanasia awareness. Would you really like to see geocaching reduced to a bunch of political statements? I sure don't!

Huh. Cancer is a disease, how can there be anything political about a disease?

The disease isn't political. The agenda is. I don't want to insult your intelligence, but I'm sure you know that there is a lot more to the word "politics" then what our government deals with.

July 5, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

That's mature....

Actually, its called sarcasm.

Which is universally accepted as an indicator of immaturity.

Especially when directed at a reasoned response geared toward helping you with a problem.

Wow, universally accepted. That's broad. Encompasses a lot.

Yeah, lol. The universe agrees . How does it feel to find out that you are not one with the universe?! :lol: :lol:

July 5, 2011

Flintstone...nice to see that not everyone is a uptight grump.

LOL...denied cache and I'm a universal outcast. Been a bad day I guess.

19k · July 5, 2011

Flintstone...nice to see that not everyone is a uptight grump.

LOL...denied cache and I'm a universal outcast. Been a bad day I guess.

Gc.com needs a competitor. They've gotten quite arrogant.

There are several. Garmin's opencaching.com is the newest.

LOL...denied cache and I'm a universal outcast.

Its all about attitude. You came in swinging.

7k · July 5, 2011

The disease isn't political. The agenda is. I don't want to insult your intelligence, but I'm sure you know that there is a lot more to the word "politics" then what our government deals with.

That's exactly the point. I don't see the agenda. All I see is an informational text about a disease. Is providing information an agenda? Is providing information a political statement?

8k · July 5, 2011

Its all about attitude. You came in swinging.

Come on. When ever someone gets their idea for a cache turned down because they didn't read or didn't understand the guidelines of course they come in swinging. It should be expected that the reviewers are wrong or Geocaching.com is arrogant. It's even common enough for half of the complaint to be dedicated to promoting the agenda that got the caches turned down in the first place (since they didn't read the Forum guidelines either - or more likely because their agenda couldn't possibly be what the guidelines meant by agenda). And asking about a competitor for Geocaching.com or saying that they'll just hide film canisters in lightposts from now on isn't much different from a geocide. (Where is Ambient_Skater with his forms? I bet no one would have batted an eye had he posted it in this thread.)

Once the OP calms down, I hope he/she understands the agenda guidelines better. Perhaps they can work with the reviewer to get their series published. Or they may find a better way to promote awareness.

7.3k · July 5, 2011

Your best bet would to pay Groundspeak a couple hundred thousand to publish them. A diabetes group paid Groundspeak hundreds of thousands to spread awareness of that, if you have pockets deep enough any agenda is possible!

And the source of this information is...?

1.7k · July 5, 2011

Your best bet would to pay Groundspeak a couple hundred thousand to publish them. A diabetes group paid Groundspeak hundreds of thousands to spread awareness of that, if you have pockets deep enough any agenda is possible!

And the source of this information is...?

Clearly I was joking. I don't know how much the Unite for Diabetes paid for the advertisement, I don't think anyone does, other then Groundspeak.

4.1k · July 5, 2011

The disease isn't political. The agenda is. I don't want to insult your intelligence, but I'm sure you know that there is a lot more to the word "politics" then what our government deals with.

That's exactly the point. I don't see the agenda. All I see is an informational text about a disease. Is providing information an agenda? Is providing information a political statement?

The agenda rules can sometimes lead to interesting results. A friend of mine could not publish a cache that contained information about the land manager's recommendations for people hiking in areas affected with sudden oak death. I would not have thought that being aware of park policy was an agenda, but an agenda it was.

Another cacher sought to do a series commemorating victims of a serial killer who preyed upon women on local trails. That was an agenda, but it was fine to name the cache after the serial killer's nickname and include some information about the victim. Perhaps it is all in the way the information is phrased.

Given the number of caches that pay tribute to everything from controversial groups, like boy scout projects, to the wonders of the world, copyrighted board games, spam spread, or famous professional darts players, I do not see why a cache could not be named after various forms of cancer with straightfoward information that is not promoting any particular result. It is at least as good of a name as a serial killer.

Edited July 5, 2011 by mulvaney

22k · July 5, 2011

The disease isn't political. The agenda is. I don't want to insult your intelligence, but I'm sure you know that there is a lot more to the word "politics" then what our government deals with.

That's exactly the point. I don't see the agenda. All I see is an informational text about a disease. Is providing information an agenda? Is providing information a political statement?

The agenda rules can sometimes lead to interesting results. A friend of mine could not publish a cache that contained information about the land manager's recommendations for people hiking in areas affected with sudden oak death. I would not have thought that being aware of park policy was an agenda, but an agenda it was.

Another cacher sought to do a series commemorating victims of a serial killer who preyed upon women on local trails. That was an agenda, but it was fine to name the cache after the serial killer's nickname and include some information about the victim. Perhaps it is all in the way the information is phrased.

Given the number if caches that pay tribute to everything from controversial groups, like boy scout projects, to the wonders of the world or famous professional darts players, I do not see why a cache could not be called "Pancreatic Cancer" with straightfoward information. It is at least as good of a name as a serial killer.

Fair enough, but I'd have to see the OP's unedited cache listing first, but even looking at the description here in the forum, yeah that's an agenda.

Edited July 5, 2011 by BlueDeuce

3.7k · July 5, 2011

It's a very good cause, but like the guidelines say geocaching is supposed to be a 'light, family activity'.

9.3k · July 5, 2011

LOL...denied cache and I'm a universal outcast.

Outcast? No, not at all. :lol:

Whiny? Yeah. Petulant? Possibly.

Bristling with entitlement? Perhaps.

But definitely not outcast! :lol:

July 5, 2011

It is clear, that you are disappointed, because your cache has not been approved.

But honestly: I suffered from cancer last year (at the age of 21...) and I would not want to answer such questions about cancer.

Such a cache would really scare me off - and that is not what I expect from my hobby.

Of course, that is my personal situation and my feelings in my special situation about it, but I think I am not the only one with this opinion...?

Why don't you create a TB with the mission to raise cancer awareness?

That would be a great message!

Edited July 5, 2011 by Fjordi

3k · July 5, 2011

hey, i was told my Flying Spaghetti Monster cache description was an agenda so i had to change it, hopefully everyone here knows that it is not really a religion but rather a parody

Blasphemer!!

You'll eat your words (possibly with a little bolognaise sauce) while you're spending an eternity being whipped by his noodley appendages........

6.1k · July 5, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

That's mature....

Actually, its called sarcasm.

Its clearly an agenda to promote easy hides, micros, old fashioned photography, and lamppost design awareness.

4.2k · July 5, 2011

hey, i was told my Flying Spaghetti Monster cache description was an agenda so i had to change it, hopefully everyone here knows that it is not really a religion but rather a parody

Blasphemer!!

You'll eat your words (possibly with a little bolognaise sauce) while you're spending an eternity being whipped by his noodley appendages........

but but meatballs are yummy :laughing:

6.7k · July 5, 2011

Mrmphle mmumngle hrmple glndnfrb.

2.1k · July 5, 2011

Mrmphle mmumngle hrmple glndnfrb.

Zezcuyr zzhzatyr uezcyr tyaqaseo?

3k · July 5, 2011

purpose = agenda

But what a way to start off a cache. Depress the cacher with the cache description, kinda takes the fun out of it. I agree with the no agenda guideline. Caching should get me away from the real world issues. Not introduce me to them.

July 5, 2011

Ok, thanks! I'll replace them with film canisters in lightpoles.

Won't do a bit of good if you don't change the text on the listing.

July 5, 2011

Going off-topic for a second...

A diabetes group paid Groundspeak hundreds of thousands to spread awareness of that, if you have pockets deep enough any agenda is possible!

Where did you get that figure from Coldgears? I doubt G.S would reveal such information and if it did, I'd be shocked if you were remotely in the ballpark.

The basic idea still holds true. If you have the resources to convince Groundspeak of your agenda, then it's possible to have an agenda.

7.3k · July 6, 2011

Travel bugs don't fall under the "agenda" rules, and that is what the Unite For Diabetes promotion involved...travel bugs, not caches.

my cache series denied

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