CO: Why do you always delete the DNFs?

[+Abbez]

There are a couple of cache owners in my area who always delete the DNFs from their cache logs. I cache with a few friends - and each of us have (separately) looked high & low for several of an owner's caches. Many were DNF (after exhaustive searches.) However, we are always "politely notified" that our DNF logs have been "deleted." In fact, you won't find ANY DNFs on the logs. The log entries are completely appropriate, and include how much time we spent, if muggles were around, etc.

 

If a cache log has multiple DNFs, wouldn't that encourage the CO to go check out the cache to make sure it's where it should be?

 

It's almost to the point where I don't want to find any of these owners' caches anymore.

[+mpilchfamily]

I can see where a CO may want to get rid of the DNFs if they have verified that the cache is still there and made not of it in the logs. But deleting it just to keep the logs clear of all DNFs seems a little out there.

[+mikemtn]

I would be curious to know if the admins would treat DNF logs the same as Found It logs and reinstate them if you asked them to. My way of thinking, the only reason to delete any log is if it's inappropriate with cursing or something.

[+Cardinal Red]

I can see where a CO may want to get rid of the DNFs if they have verified that the cache is still there and made not of it in the logs. But deleting it just to keep the logs clear of all DNFs seems a little out there.

I can't possibly disagree more with your first sentence. DNF means you didn't find the cache. That doesn't equal proof that the cache is not there. If the cache owner indicates that when they checked on it the cache was still there, those DNF logs are fairly strong evidence that it is a tough find. There is no excuse for deleting a valid DNF. I would petition Groundspeak to have them restored.

[+luvvinbird]

I can see where a CO may want to get rid of the DNFs if they have verified that the cache is still there and made not of it in the logs. But deleting it just to keep the logs clear of all DNFs seems a little out there.

I can't possibly disagree more with your first sentence. DNF means you didn't find the cache. That doesn't equal proof that the cache is not there. If the cache owner indicates that when they checked on it the cache was still there, those DNF logs are fairly strong evidence that it is a tough find. There is no excuse for deleting a valid DNF. I would petition Groundspeak to have them restored.

I'm with you on not deleting DNF's. As a cache owner, I act on every DNF. Some geocachers won't find it for any number of reasons. For me, their input adds richness and provides additional information to allow other geocachers to form a different game plan. Also, I think it's important as a CO, to "communicate" with our peers by posting notes after (more than one consecutive) DNF to show that we saw it, and we acted on it. As opposed to some CO's who appear to have left the planet after hiding a cache.

[+NanCycle]

I would be thoroughly ticked off if a CO deleted my DNFs. From time to time I like to go down the list and see if anyone has found them and what they have to say about them. Please let us know if GS restores them.

[+popokiiti]

DNF means the seeker didn't locate the cache...and it could have been right in front of them, or it could have been missing. I cannot see the point in deleting DNF logs...they are a part of the caches' history, and mine too. I would be tempted to re-enter my DNF, with a funny note!

[+kunarion]

It's almost to the point where I don't want to find any of these owners' caches anymore.

That would be a good option. Wait... you're already not finding those caches.

 

COs have plenty of good excuses in their own minds, for deleting logs. One reason is that "GSAK won't include some caches in its list which have a streak of DNFs". Or so the story goes.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Previous post may well be the correct approach....

 

Appeal to Groundspeak. The CO inappropriately deleted a valid log (it wasn't inappropriate or bogus), it doesn't even reflect poorly upon them (except for the deletion, IMO).

 

A log is a log is a log, found or not, it is still a log (and a proper one, I might add).

 

Appealing may be a pain in the ...., but it's the principle of the matter, the CO(s) are acting inappropriately, and outside of the guidelines.

[+Fandango739]

As a new cacher, I am glad to read the opinions here. (I am learning a lot!)

 

I recently logged a DNF. I spent an hour and half in the zone looking for the cache and failed. When I logged the DNF, I simply thought that I truly had just missed the thing, had a temporary case of blindness. (It's happened before....) The CO logged back that evening. The cache truly had gone missing and my DNF had alerted her!

 

Even as a newb, I can understand that DNFs do have a purpose.

[Pup Patrol]

I would definitely be appealing to Groundspeak.

 

Some people shouldn't be in the cache-owner business if they routinely delete DNF logs to keep their cache page(s) "clean". Its' misleading and dishonest.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Pup Patrol

[+Shop99er]

DNF's are part of the history of the cache. I can't think of any good reason to delete the logs. I would ask the CO why (if you haven't already), but I wouldn't stir up a hornet's nest over it, either.

[+Hawkins2.5]

I would hate for my DNFs to be deleted as much as a found it log. It's part of my geocaching history and I am never ashamed of them! I too like to go down the list and look at my DNFs again from time to time to see who has found them since and how easy they found it. I'm sure the OP feels the same and I hope that the logs can be reinstated.

I also always assume with a DNF that it is a failure on my part and not that the cache is missing - which I try to make clear in my logs. Even if there are a couple of DNFs before me I personally wouldn't suggest that the cache is missing. (I think that the cache has only been missing on one of my DNFs since starting a few months ago. The others are all just down to my inability to find it!)

[+briansnat]

It would really tick me off if my DNF was deleted. It is MY log and MY history. Unless my log was inappropriate the CO has no right to delete it.

 

Those DNFs are also valuable information. They often give a real picture of the difficulty of a cache. If you see a 1 difficulty cache with half a dozen DNFs mixed in among the logs, that is an indicator that the cahce is incorrectly rated. By sanitizing the logs the CO denies other cachers the use of a valuable tool.

 

 

Not really a getting started issue. Moving to the general forum.

Edited July 6, 2011 by briansnat

[+DanOCan]

I agree with the others. My DNFs are just as valuable to me as my Finds and I would appeal to Groundspeak to have them reinstated.

[AZcachemeister]

It would really tick me off if my DNF was deleted. It is MY log and MY history. Unless my log was inappropriate the CO has no right to delete it.

 

Those DNFs are also valuable information. They often give a real picture of the difficulty of a cache. If you see a 1 difficulty cache with half a dozen DNFs mixed in among the logs, that is an indicator that the cache is incorrectly rated. By sanitizing the logs the CO denies other cachers the use of a valuable tool.

 

 

ALL my DNF logs are valid logs...I DIDN'T FIND IT!

 

I have seen cases where cachers will log 'spurious' DNF logs to up their DNF total to qualify for a DNF challenge, but that's not the case here.

 

Don't understand why a CO would delete DNF logs, most delight in them.

[+lamoracke]

have seen them, but I also see no valid reason for deleting DNFs, especially by the CO. I have not had one deleted but sure have seen them go away for a friend of mine and that was annoying.

[Keystone]

I would be curious to know if the admins would treat DNF logs the same as Found It logs and reinstate them if you asked them to. My way of thinking, the only reason to delete any log is if it's inappropriate with cursing or something.

Groundspeak will restore deleted DNF logs and correct the cache owner's misunderstanding of logging principles in examples like the one described by the OP. I speak from personal experience with my player account. I am sorry to hear that there are CO's in the OP's area who do this.

[+Sioneva]

Some of my DNFs are my most fun experiences and inspire my most unique logs. I'd be furious if someone deleted them willy-nilly!

[+d+n.s]

Some of my DNFs are my most fun experiences and inspire my most unique logs. I'd be furious if someone deleted them willy-nilly!

Same here! I love DNF logs. They are usually better reads than the "found it" logs

 

I guess I can imagine why someone would delete DNFs, but I don't agree with the reasoning I'm imagining.

[+DadOf6Furrballs]

I've seen it happen to us a few times, and not with just one CO either. "It's there, so it's not a valid DNF" or some other excuse. I used to get a bit angsty about it, but now I just figure, ehhh... whatever.

[+mikemtn]

I would be curious to know if the admins would treat DNF logs the same as Found It logs and reinstate them if you asked them to. My way of thinking, the only reason to delete any log is if it's inappropriate with cursing or something.

Groundspeak will restore deleted DNF logs and correct the cache owner's misunderstanding of logging principles in examples like the one described by the OP. I speak from personal experience with my player account. I am sorry to hear that there are CO's in the OP's area who do this.

Thanks Keystone

[+SwineFlew]

DNF logs is part of the story of that cache. Leave it alone as long it within the guidelines. I tend to read most of the DNF log over the found it log. Some really interesting stories.

[Clan Riffster]

CO: Why do you always delete the DNFs?

Have you asked them? It could be the cache owners in question have some bizarre misunderstanding over how these things work. By asking, you could, conceivably, solve two different things in one fell swoop; Teach the cache owner the appropriate response to a DNF on one of their caches, and satisfy your curiosity.

[+ARHogFanz]

DNF logs are valuable tools for me as a relative noob. If I can't find a cache, I check the logs and see that some of the more experienced cachers in the area haven't found it either, I don't feel quite as bad. I sometimes check the logs before I go. If there are several DNFs, especially by those experienced cachers, that tells me that I need to plan on giving myself plenty of time to look or maybe to skip it until a found or maintenance performed log is posted. I also like to go back and check the logs of the caches that I've posted a DNF on. If they've been found since I looked, that tells me that I need to go back and look harder. Lastly, I would think that adding my log to the DNF logs of those before me, especially the experienced cachers, would be valuable info to the CO that the cache may have been muggled.

 

Just the 2 cents of a noob.

Melissa

[+Electric Water Boy]

Reason #1 that DNFs get deleted: The CO knows that with multiple DNFs, some cachers will not bother looking for their cache. It won't make the cut through GSAK.

 

Reason #2 that DNFs get deleted: The CO knows that with multiple DNFs, some cachers will not bother looking for their cache. Not everyone uses GSAK, but still, they see the DNFs and avoid.

 

Reason #3 that DNFs get deleted: The CO thinks the DNFs make the CO look bad. However, when the word gets around that the CO is deleting DNFs, well, the CO does look bad.

 

Bummer nop matter what reason is picked. Some of my best logs have been DNFs.

[+geocat_]

I personally love DNF logs for my hides. It means I am an evil hider, hahahaha!

[+cx1]

So how does one prove a DNF to the point that it can get a log restored?

One could (if still available) use the physical log to prove a find and prove the on-line log is legitimate. However the reverse is not true for a DNF.

Some time ago it was discussed on what action was necessary to perform a 'hunt attempt'.

Some felt being in the general area was sufficient. One person went on to clarify with the example of if they had driven to the GZ area but it was raining so they did not exit their vehicle they would still claim that as a DNF. Others felt that this did not involve enough effort on the hunter's part to qualify as a legitimate attempt to find the cache and a DNF log would not be appropriate.

So what would be Groundspeak's remedy be if the CO deleted the DNF log of the person who did not leave their vehicle?

What evidence would the non-finder need to provide to prove the DNF should not have been deleted?

[Clan Riffster]

So how does one prove a DNF to the point that it can get a log restored?

In poking about in these forums, I can only recall a few instances where folks invoked the Powers Of Groundspeak to get a DNF restored. I didn't see any particular commonality between the DNFs, which leads me to believe there are no carved in stone guidelines for the folks at The Lily Pad regarding restoring DNF logs. I'm assuming they deal with them on a case by case basis.