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Can we have the old state search back?

dglidden

By dglidden
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dglidden

dglidden

Posted
Posted

Why did we lose the ability to simply say "show me all the caches for a state"? I don't want to have to pick a home city or anything. I just want to see all the caches for a given state.

 

The new search won't let me pull up all the caches for a state, only within 100 miles of a particular city, which sucks. (and only a week after I finally succumbed to my guilt and "donated" the $30...)

 

Can we have the old search back? Please? icon_frown.gif

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Rubbertoe

Rubbertoe

Posted
Posted

I love the new state page... and as for "all the new caches in the state" - well, I know all states aren't as slow as Ohio, but on the state page for us it shows "Latest Caches Hidden..." followed by the 10 most recently placed caches - and that is good enough to cover all caches placed since 10/22.

 

Why is it that you NEED to see all caches for a state? If you think you are making a trip, just do 100 mile radius searches for the areas you'll be travelling. Someone would have a hard time convincing me that they need to be able to see all caches in a state, other than to be used by some site raping stats/utility program.

 

But feel free to try and convince me otherwise. icon_wink.gif

 

geobanana.gif

The Toe Pages
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dglidden

dglidden

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Because, for example, Florida is a large state and it's easier to do one query than eleven.

 

My wife and I have taken road trips based on the fact that there were caches there. I don't necessarily KNOW where I might go one weekend, which is why I like to have a whole lot of options available.

 

I could download everything 100 miles from Tampa and 100 miles from Orlando and 100 miles from Lakeland and 100 miles from Tallahassee and 100 miles from Jacksonville and 100 miles from Pensacola and 100 miles from.... or just say "everything in Florida". Get the point?

 

Not only do I have to do ten times as many queries, but I now have many duplicates from where those 100 mile radii overlap to deal with, plus I get to look at a physical map and try to figure out what cities to pick to make sure all my 100 mile radiuses overlap. It's a pain.

 

(and my GPS holds 500 waypoints, with the latest beta firmware updating that to 1000, so yes I actually do dump all of that info into the GPS at any given time. and if I find myself crossing state lines, I dump everything and load up as much as I can fit for that state.)

 

For another example, when we drive to NY this winter am I supposed to pick 100 mile radiuses every 50 miles along the interstate to download cache data or could I just download cache data for the seven (or however many) states between Florida and NY? Personally, I'd rather do the latter.

 

Same thing for when we drive to Yellowstone next Summer. It's easier to snarf down a whole state at a time than try to work out exactly which cities will cover that 100 mile radius along the trip we're taking in case we feel like stopping somewhere along the way. Particularly when I'm not going to be able to just pull up geocaching.com and download new data while on the road.

 

SELECT * FROM CACHES WHERE STATE = ? will almost certainly put less load on the database than SELECT * FROM CACHES WHERE DISTANCE_LESS_THAN(100 miles from zipcode) unless the database design is REALLY weird, so there's no technical reason NOT to have the ability.

 

I'm attracted to geocaching because all I need to do is dump all the cache data onto my laptop, throw the GPS and Palm Pilot in the bag and start driving. When I start running out of waypoints on the GPS, dump 'em all and load a new state. I don't generally go "planned geocaching" because I don't think it's that much fun. The old search page used to fit me perfectly because I could just grab a whole chunk of data at a time and work it out for myself. The new search forces me to go through a lot of hassle to plan what I might feel like doing and that sucks, IMNSHO.

 

Finally: "site raping stats/utility program"? Am I supposed to be offended by that? My English teacher taught me about "loaded" words and phrases and that certainly sounds "loaded" to me. Apologies if you didn't mean it in a negative and aggressive sense.

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skydiver

skydiver

Posted
Posted

Yup, I like the new state pages, but I don't want to give up the old search either. I can't imagine how searching by radius puts less load on the database than does searching by state =. Keep the new format, but put a link on that page to the old search by the whole state ... please.

 

---------------------------------------

"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

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Jamie Z

+Jamie Z

Posted
Posted

I'm with those folks. I sure like the new search feature, but I also used the heck out of the old one.

 

I would bring up the state of Mississippi, download the newest caches, and then go there.

 

I suppose I can still do the same thing with pocket queries... but it seemed much simpler to have a list right in front of me of the newest caches in the state, because then I could click on the links and print out the cache pages right then.

 

I'd like to see both the new and old state searches available. Both are extremely useful.

 

Jamie

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skydiver

skydiver

Posted
Posted

Just noticed a couple more things I don't like about the new limitation.

There are caches within the state of Montana (my home state) that are not within 100 miles of ANY of the cities offered (so there's no search that finds them). And for a couple of the cities offered, half of the caches within 100 miles aren't even in Montana.

Second item is just annoying, but the first is terrible. Some of us do like to go hunting for those remote caches ... but now we have no idea they even exist.

 

---------------------------------------

"We never seek things for themselves -- what we seek is the very seeking of things."

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

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Rubbertoe

Rubbertoe

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by dglidden:

(...I actually do dump all of that info into the GPS at any given time. and if I find myself crossing state lines, I dump everything and load up as much as I can fit for that state.)

 

For another example, when we drive to NY this winter am I supposed to pick 100 mile radiuses every 50 miles along the interstate to download cache data or could I just download cache data for the seven (or however many) states between Florida and NY? Personally, I'd rather do the latter.

 

I see your point... I just never have done any cache hunting using the methods that you do - it just seems like a strange concept to me. Whenever I get a cache, it is usually because I was heading to that area for some other reason - so I just nab caches that are nearby. I've never just set out in my car on a random journey, grabbing caches as I went along. icon_smile.gif

 

quote:
Finally: "site raping stats/utility program"? Am I supposed to be offended by that? My English teacher taught me about "loaded" words and phrases and that certainly sounds "loaded" to me. Apologies if you didn't mean it in a negative and aggressive sense.

 

Oh, no - I didn't mean anything by it... that is just the term I use, and have heard used, when talking about utilities that grab massive amounts of data from something - in a way that might not have normally been intended by the data owner.

 

I have a usenet binary raper (binary boy), a web site raper (teleport pro), and from some things I've been reading - there are also apparently site rapers designed for collecting data from here. I've not used those - and I believe it might be a touchy subject, so I'll refrain from mentioning it too much.

 

But no, no harm was intended here... I was just trying to understand the need for a statewide download of cache data. icon_smile.gif

 

geobanana.gif

The Toe Pages
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cachew nut

+cachew nut

Posted
Posted

I'm also not too happy with the new state display, but I'll live. It's unfortunate that we in the US have to suffer through this while places like Canada remains unchanged, you can still search by province. Oh well, I'd still rather live south of the border icon_smile.gif

 

My thoughts are that this wasn't the way to stop waypoint harvesters, they will just make new maps based on area codes or zip codes, so this will just be a minor setback for them. I know this will meet resistance too, but I think a better way would have been to allow information to registered accounts only, and anyone abusing the system can then be reprimanded or banned. At least there would be a starting point to find the harvesters.

 

I guess we'll just have to learn the zip codes and area codes, I guess I'm still not too old to learn icon_wink.gif

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Prime Suspect

+Prime Suspect

Posted
Posted

If this was an attempt to cut down on bandwidth use, it will be a failure. Why? Because those who are grabbing info off the site will simply be forced to use less efficient means. If your able to list all the caches in a state, that means you're retrieving each cache's info exactly once. If you're forced to use other means (Lat/Lon, ZIP Code, or something else) there's going to be a LOT of overlap, causing caches to be retrieved multiple times.

 

3608_1400.gif

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brdad

+brdad

Posted
Posted

I thought the page looked interesting when I took a 2 minute look, but another 2 minutes looking this morning and I'm having second guesses.

 

I like to download all caches for Maine too, since I can drive to 80% of the areas in Maine in 2.5 hours. Plus, there's only about 200 of em, so what's the big deal...

 

And now, any state searches also show out of state caches if it's within the mileage, in my mind a state search should be for caches within the state. If I wan't caches within a set mileage, that should be another option like from zip code or coords.

 

And lastly, where the info is grabbed from that determines cities with over 20,000 people baffles me. These are the cities it shows for Maine with 20.000+ :

Arundel, Auburn, Augusta, Bangor, Birch Island, Lewiston, Portland, South Portland, and Winslow.

Cities that have 20,000+ according to Almanac:

Auburn, Bangor, Biddeford, Brunswick, Lewiston, Portland, Sanford, and South Portland.

 

I can't verify some of them, but I can guarantee there is no Birch island in maine with 20,000 people. Also, Bangor is the furthest north city in Maine, and there is 200+ miles of land north of Bangor.

 

With friends like you, who needs enemas?

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alchemist2000

+alchemist2000

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by brdad:

I thought the page looked interesting when I took a 2 minute look, but another 2 minutes looking this morning and I'm having second guesses.

 

My thoughts exactly. If this is IN ADDITION TO the old way of searching truly by state, then it has some pluses. To totally replace the old state search is not good for many reasons. I don't know what algorithm was used to pick the cities for each state, but it is truly strange. For West Virginia, for example, it does not even include Charleston, which is the capital.

 

Alchemist2000

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Markwell

+Markwell

Posted
Posted

I really initially liked it. Now I'll pick at it a little.

 

I could see next summer that you could easily have 20 or 25 new caches in our state (let alone California) in a day. Someone who doesn't search that page daily (or hourly) could miss some.

 

I'd like to see the most recent caches number expanded from 10 to include a minimum of 10, but all placed in the last week. (They used to have the "New" icon).

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

"Therapy is expensive but bubble wrap is free."

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orange

+orange

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by dglidden:

Why did we lose the ability to simply say "show me all the caches for a state"? I don't want to have to pick a home city or anything. I just want to see all the caches for a given state.

 

The new search won't let me pull up all the caches for a state, only within 100 miles of a particular city, which sucks. (and only a week after I finally succumbed to my guilt and "donated" the $30...)

 

Can we have the old search back? Please? icon_frown.gif

 

I like the new page but would like to also still have it the old way too. It is better for looking at the new caches. You can see if they are virtual, multi, or traditional at a glance.

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Bear and Ting

+Bear and Ting

Posted
Posted

... I like the search by city feature and the fact that I can see the newest caches. It takes a little getting used to, but it seems to be reacting quicker. Besides, Ting and I like to travel and this makes it easier that trying to locate a zipcode for a city we might be near.

 

Bear & Ting

 

P.S. Jeremy, now that you have gotten this done, GPX? icon_wink.gif

 

I thought I was a little off, then I looked at my GPS and discovered I accurate to 12 ft.

 

Geocachers don't NEED to ask for directions!

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T-storm

+T-storm

Posted
Posted

Makes no difference to me, I never used the list of all caches in a state anyway and as it stands will not likely use this page either.

 

That said, if a tool is offered, it should work well. As others have pointed out, the city list is suspect. If I want a list centered from a city I'd do better to go look up a zip and search by zip. Some examples for Texas:

  • Watauga is not listed. Population 20009 in 1990, city now reports 23000.
  • Keller borders Fort Worth and Watauga. 1990 population at 13683, city website now says 19,200 but it's booming, so even that number is likely out of date.
  • Appleby is listed. State lists pop in 1990 at 449. It is a small community, one flashing light where the biggest 2-lane road in town crosses a US highway.
  • Nacogdoches, located a little over 5 miles from Appleby had a 1990 population of 30000+. It is NOT on the list.

My point is that the data supplied to Jeremy about population is badly off and apparently not just because it is outdated. If it's 1990 info, then really, 12 years, at least in metropolitan areas, is too old to be useful. If it's older... well, you get the point.

 

I figure that the intent was to try to offer more useful tools to folks, not to stymy their cache hunts. So pointing out flaws is useful and saying you'd rather have a simple list of all caches in a state is useful. Maybe you'll get a search tool that better meets your needs.

 

T-storm

 

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

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Centaur

+Centaur

Posted
Posted

I don't mind the new state page, I like its presentation. I don't think I ever used the old full state listing myself anyway, but I can see where others might want to retain the old format anyway.

 

Now, if i really had my druthers, i would wish for there to be a way to draw a bounding box in the MAP display and have the server list all caches within that box. For example, when doing a vacation along major roadways, like I did in September, it would have been nice to just draw a rectange along route 80 and have the server list the caches, etc. (This opposed to the current pan, zoom, identify method.)

 

66427_2400.gif

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Marky

+Marky

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Centaur:

Now, if i really had my druthers, i would wish for there to be a way to draw a bounding box in the MAP display and have the server list all caches within that box. For example, when doing a vacation along major roadways, like I did in September, it would have been nice to just draw a rectange along route 80 and have the server list the caches, etc. (This opposed to the current pan, zoom, identify method.)

 

One easy way to do this (but not so graphically oriented) would be to allow two coords to be entered, and then report all the caches within the box described by the two coords. It would even be easy to limit the size of the box to reasonable dimentions.

 

--Marky

"Everyone spends time in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

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dglidden

dglidden

Posted
  • Author
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

 

Ah, so you have Pocket Queries. Use them.

 

http://216.202.195.127/warm.gif

 

Yes, thank you. Somehow I must have missed the fact that Pocket Queries are completely different from the old State search page.

 

Florida has over 700 caches listed. Pocket Queries are limited to 500 caches. I'm still not able to retrieve all the caches for Florida with Pocket Queries. Plus, I can only have 5 Pocket Queries. I *DO* use Pocket Queries to retrieve NEW caches for Florida on a weekly basis, but that still isn't what I want to/used to be able to do.

 

*I* like to cache a particular way: I download all the caches for the state and go where the wind blows. Now, because I complain that I've lost that ability, it seems like I'm being told to "go geocaching the way everyone else does" which is offensive at best.

 

Like I said, I DO like the new state pages, I just wish I had the old pages available as well. And it sounds like a lot of other people do too.

 

Removing functionality from an existing system, whether it's application, website or whatever, is virtually never a good idea.

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Jamie Z

+Jamie Z

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

Ah, so you have Pocket Queries.

Fuzzy, I've used the pocket queries on a couple of roadtrips I've taken. Namely PaterQuest whereby I tried to find as many Mississippi caches as I could in six days. Pocket queries were all but perfect for this task. They still are.

 

I've done similar trips through Mississippi post-PaterQuest. Since I've found most of the caches in Mississippi, I'm only concerned about the newest ones. One my way south through MS, I'll alter my route depending on caches I want to find.

 

As before, I could use pocket queries for that, but what was really useful about the state-feature was that I would click on Mississippi, and a chronological list of caches would appear. I could visually exclude any caches I didn't want to look for (virtuals, for instance) and I can also see the dates when the new ones were placed. But the best part is that I can easily click on the caches I plan to look for and print out the pages.

 

Printing the cache pages isn't so easy with the pocket queries.

 

From what I can see, the new state-pages are simply an easier-to-use form of the search-by-zipcode. It certainly improved the zip-code search, but at the expense of another useful feature.

 

Jamie

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dglidden

dglidden

Posted
  • Author
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

I see your point... I just never have done any cache hunting using the methods that you do - it just seems like a strange concept to me. Whenever I get a cache, it is usually because I was heading to that area for some other reason - so I just nab caches that are nearby. I've never just set out in my car on a random journey, grabbing caches as I went along. icon_smile.gif

 

I HAVE "planned" geocaching trips, it's just that I've also been on the road and said "wonder if there are any caches nearby" and because my GPS had the whole state loaded, I could find out. And when we first started geocaching early this year on an unrelated trip, we changed the whole trip based on where we saw clumps of caches. We found some really nice places up in Florida's panhandle that we never would have gone to without caches there, nor would we have even known about them if I hadn't had all the caches available to me at the time.

 

The other thing is, I rarely visit the site. When I do, I download a big chunk, load it up, and then feel "comfortable" that if I'm out somewhere, I'll have the data available. So really, this method causes LESS impact on the site overall since I just pull everything down in a big chunk all at once and then go away for a while.

 

quote:
Oh, no - I didn't mean anything by it... that is just the term I use, and have heard used, when talking about utilities that grab massive amounts of data from something - in a way that might not have normally been intended by the data owner.

 

Ok, just checking. icon_wink.gif

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dglidden

dglidden

Posted
  • Author
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

Try the "other search options" page. The functionality is still there.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

 

whoah....! I must've been using it last night during a transition because that feature DID NOT WORK last night. Selecting a state name from the advanced search page just took me right back to the _new_ State search page. And I know I'm not hallucinating because I sat there for a good half-hour trying to find the old page and never did, including trying all sorts of options from the advanced search page. Which is why I started this thread to begin with.

 

In any case, I'm happy again. Thanks! icon_smile.gif

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Brokenwing

+Brokenwing

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

Try the "other search options" page. The functionality is still there.

 

Jeremy, Thanks for your work on this. I really like the new state page.

 

If I could make a suggestion, what if you added an ALL option to the new state drop-down and linked that to the old state query list? I know that we can get there another way, but it might be a little confusing for the uninitiated that they get two very different pages when using the drop-down on the home page vs. the search page. Does this make sense?

 

Thanks,

 

Scott / Brokenwing

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

 

***********************************

 

There's a thin line between geocaching and walking in circles like an idiot.

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Markwell

+Markwell

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by dglidden:

whoah....! I must've been using it last night during a transition because that feature DID NOT WORK last night. Selecting a state name from the advanced search page just took me right back to the _new_ State search page. And I know I'm not hallucinating because I sat there for a good half-hour trying to find the old page and never did, including trying all sorts of options from the advanced search page. Which is why I started this thread to begin with.

 

In any case, I'm happy again. Thanks! icon_smile.gif

 

You're not hallucinating. I think the links have been fixed to make some more sense.

 

Illinois' whole list

Illinois' New Page

 

I would indeed be nice if BOTH pages had a cross link to the other page. If you end up on one, go to the other.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

"Therapy is expensive but bubble wrap is free."

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Rusty & Libby

+Rusty & Libby

Posted
Posted

I was all set to complain about wanting both versions because the new one is preferrable 90% of the time and nice looking but I still like the old style once a week or so.

 

Then I saw Jeremy's post and all was well in my world again. So I went to check it out and I keep getting the old page? I went from the "Seek a cache" page and chose Michigan and I also clicked on the MI link at the top of My Cache page. Both links give me the old style listing?

 

Rusty...

 

--------------------------------------------------

Friends don't let friends cache locationless!

 

Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page

Michigan Geocaching Organization

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Ttepee

+Ttepee

Posted
Posted

Well I'm glad to see that we can get back to the old page. I wasn't going to pipe in here on this one but today I noticed that the most recent 10 on the new pages is not even changing. At least two caches in NY were approved yesterday and still have not hit the most recent 10 but they show up on the overall state search. Is the most recent 10 going to lag like the TB page seems to do?

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raw

+raw

Posted
Posted

(1) I also want the entire state list back. For those of us with slow modem lines, working offline is a common mode, interspersed with waypoint updates. Getting the entire state at once is a huge time-saver.

(2) What "other search options" page? I can't find it.

(3) I like the suggestion of links between partial and whole state listings. But there is an option, as yet unmentioned, which would be (IMHO) even more useful: namely a "Download Waypoints for Entire State" button. I don't need to see them on the screen nearly as much as I want to have them in my home computer

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Prime Suspect

+Prime Suspect

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by raw:

(1) I also want the entire state list back. For those of us with slow modem lines, working offline is a common mode, interspersed with waypoint updates. Getting the entire state at once is a huge time-saver.

(2) What "other search options" page? I can't find it.

 

Um... er... um... the old states list has been back for over a month.

 

The "other search options" page is http://www.geocaching.com/hideseek/

 

You reach it by clicking on the Hide & Seek A Cache link from the main page (or just about any other page).

 

3608_1400.gif

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