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Moosiegirl

Suggested New Cache Status: Orphaned!

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Situation: we have had several instances in our area (and just found one in the region we'll be visiting at Christmas) of caches being placed, hunted/found on a regular basis, problems reported over and over in logs and emails, and never being maintained/corrected by the owner. Often, we see a profile of someone with less than 10 finds and none of them recent; and often more caches placed than found! They were gung ho at first but then abandoned their "cache family". IMHO they should lose their "parental rights".

 

Solution?: Instead of archiving these often popular caches, how about setting up an "orphanage" for them after so many logs and/or so many emails with no response/repair by the owner? Not sure how we could do it, but I would occasionally look to see if there were orphaned caches in my area (say within 25 miles?) and be willing to adopt a few to keep them going. Any additional suggestions/input? Maybe something as simple as a report to Jeremy, an administrative ownership change, and an "orphan" icon like the "new" bug that comes up in the list next to new caches?

 

Happy Trails,

Candy

 

Candy (moosiegirl)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CentralTexasGeocachers/

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i think it seems like a lot of work(for the admins) for something that we already have.

if you know of a cache that is "orphaned" you can already just send an email to Jeremy and request it be turned over to you, right? icon_confused.gif

 

why does it need to be reclassified before it can be changed over to someone elase? i realize that such a thing would make it easier to find needy caches icon_razz.gif, but as i said it seems like a lot of work to do for something we already have.

 

whack.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by welch:

why does it need to be reclassified before it can be changed over to someone else?


 

I don't think it'd give the admins any more to do... although it would help identify caches to people who might consider adopting them. (edit: Although, I think I see what you mean now... if people could "suggest this cache be marked as orphaned" it would cause more work for them, yeah. icon_frown.gif )

 

In fact, we were discussing this in another thread, and had I seen the Moonville Cache had been "officially" abandoned, I'd have taken some stuff and adopted it. And, even it it hadn't been marked as orphaned - it would be now, because that is how I would have logged it.

 

I think it would be a good idea - when people find crappy caches, you can't just call for them to be archived... as someone else said, that would result in little piles of "geo-litter" around the world. And, until I was in that situation, I didn't realize that people even could adopt someone else's abandoned cache. icon_smile.gif

 

My .02 anyway...

 

banana.gifToe's Photo Archives

 

[This message was edited by Rubbertoe on October 20, 2002 at 12:12 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Rubbertoe:

In fact, we were discussing this in http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=2400942635 and had I seen the http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=7968 had been "officially" abandoned, I'd have taken some stuff and adopted it. And, even it it hadn't been marked as orphaned - it would be now, because that is how I would have logged it.


 

i never replied to the other thread but i think you did the right thing. anyways let me clearify my point:

i dont see the need to have the admins spend a bunch of time designing this feature, but if there was such a thing I WOULD use it icon_wink.gif

and instead of asking "why does it need to be reclassified before it can be changed over to someone else?" i should have stated "it doesnt need to be reclassified before it can be changed over to someone elase" icon_biggrin.gif

 

quote:

And, until I was in that situation, I didn't realize that people even _could_ adopt someone else's abandoned cache. icon_smile.gif


yes its possiable, there has even been at least one rant from a person that was mad that they had been without a computer or internet or just had been watching their email.(i dont remember which but it doesn matter...) When they did finally log into the site they found out that their caches had been found full of water and since he/she couldnt be reached one of the finders had adopted the cache(s) and had them transfered over to another account icon_biggrin.gif

 

whack.gif

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Heh... well, as the owner of a cache a person has to be willing to maintain their caches - with internet access or without. So, I don't feel too sorry for them if they come back a few months later and find their cache has been "kidnapped" by another geocacher. icon_smile.gif And heck, it seems like the internet is everywhere these days... library, malls, coffee shops, schools, etc. Someone would have a pretty hard time convincing me that there was no way that they could get on the net. Even my old grandma manages to send me an e-mail from the library every now and then. So, if they snooze they looze. icon_razz.gif

 

banana.gifToe's Photo Archives

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im not saying i did either, i was just pointing that out (do i tend to say things that have nothing to do with nothing for no reason? maybe its just this thread...)

and all that about using another connection(blah blah blah) came up too icon_biggrin.gif

 

whack.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by welch:

im not saying i did either, i was just pointing that out (do i tend to say things that have nothing to do with nothing for no reason? maybe its just this thread...)

and all that about using another connection(blah blah blah) came up too icon_biggrin.gif


 

Hahah... no, I knew that you meant that. I just usually have to add my 2 cents - you just happen to be catching all the replies in this thread. icon_smile.gif

 

geobanana.gifThe Toe Pages

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I just recently wrote to Jeremy about adopting a cache, and he said the owner had to be involved. Are you saying this is not true in all cases? I brought this up because of what he said, so that we could show overtly in these cases that a cache was abandoned and the owner no longer had rights to it. Any cases where an abandoned cache has been adopted by "executive order"?

 

Candy

 

Candy (moosiegirl)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CentralTexasGeocachers/

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Another comment -- you said admin. intervention isn't necessary, but it seems that if I see a cache with 8 logs over 3 months that it is wet, and none of THOSE people volunteered to adopt it, then there should be a way to flag it so the rest of the local community would see that it needs a new home. It's the hunt that is really the thing and not the treasures (or junk) you find at the end, but finding a water-logged log just doesn't add to my enjoyment at all! Much less the exposure to molds and fungi for anyone who is sensitive! YECCCHHHH.

 

Candy

 

Candy (moosiegirl)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CentralTexasGeocachers/

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I haven't decided yet what I think of the concept of somehow marking caches that are considered either abandoned or up for adoption, thus no reply until now. However, I HAVE adopted a cache through a process that did NOT involve the owner.

 

The cache was one that I had found about a month after it was placed. It was kinda difficult to figure out for all who sought it apparently. Then someone made clear from their posts that they couldn't even find the first stage, nor the backup clues either... no way to progress on the cache. They had tried repeatedly to contact the cache owner with no results. I approached this cacher and offered to go with her to see if the stages were really missing or if she was just not finding them. We found that the first stage was gone and were unable to find the alternate clue. I led her to the area of the second clue and she found it and the cache successfully.

 

I both posted a note to the cache listing stating what we had done and e-mailed the owner and when no response was forthcoming I posted a note of my intention to ask Jeremy if I could adopt the cache. No response. So a week later I e-mailed again. No response. I sent Jeremy the whole story and told him how I thought a good adventure was going to be lost and how the cache was not findable as it existed. He attempted to contact the owner and posted a note of intention to turn the cache over to me. A week later it was mine.

 

I set up a first stage and clues not so likely to disappear as the originals and editted the listing and it was mine. I did retain the original owner's ID in the "by" field along with mine in way of credit where credit was due and sent a message telling him that if he became able to care for it in the next couple of months to contact me. He didn't, so I went ahead and got after-the-fact permission for the placement. After going through that process I have to say I wouldn't want to give it back, but then I've never even been contacted by the original owner. So it can be done, but you may have to make a significant effort to prove that the owner is unresponsive and then wait for Groundspeak to do the same. It sort of became a trend around here, and I know of at least 3 other cachers locally who have made a point of adopting orphaned caches or pushing to have them archived if they are trashed and in a bad location.

 

T-storm

 

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by Moosiegirl:

Any cases where an abandoned cache has been adopted by "executive order"?


 

Yes. And it has caused some problems. See this thread.

 

I think after that incident and others, Jeremy has implemented some self-policing about the circumstances behind cache adoption.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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Two other local cachers and I sort of shang-hai'ed (is that PC?) three local caches placed by a non-local. The caches had become trashy, and the "owner" didn't respond.

 

After several persistant emails to Jeremy, he sent me a very hesitant positive response to my inquiry. Now the three caches have been fully adopted and all three are in great shape! The owner still hasn't been heard from.

 

Of course, the three of us kept the original name and the owners name on the cache page... so even if the original placer noticed, he would see that he still retains credit for having placed the caches.

 

Jamie

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quote:
Originally posted by Markwell:

quote:
Originally posted by Moosiegirl:

Any cases where an abandoned cache has been adopted by "executive order"?


 

Yes. And it has caused some problems.

I think after that incident and others, Jeremy has implemented some self-policing about the circumstances behind cache adoption.


 

Well, while it seems like it is "wrong" in a way - I think that pretty much decides it for me that I'm just going to scoop up the remains of the Moonville Cache and then request that it be archived, if someone doesn't do it before me. I don't really wanna adopt it, as the actual hiding spot isn't that good - so I'm probably better off swiping the remains and having the cache archived than trying to adopt it.

 

Heh - I suppose this could open up a whole new can of worms. But I suppose just archiving a cache is better than "giving it away" to someone else. Less problems, anyway - cuz it could be unarchived if the owner returned.

 

geobanana.gifThe Toe Pages

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After reading the thread I have to agree that it would be nice to have a way to adopt a cache and show it by the cache name. This process should accound for caches that are abandoned as well as for caches that an owner is willing to give it up. It may be that the owner has moved out of the area and has no way to maintain a cache. The owner if they wanted to, could put the cache up for adoption or archive it and take it with them to a new location. Having never placed a cache, I think a part of the agreement on listing the cache should have some stipulation about reassigning the cache if it is deemed abandoned. That way, the owner can't come back and say you never told me. My 2 cents worth.

 

-- Hendro

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One thing I don't understand is why people think they must "adopt" a cache just to maintain it? I've been carrying ziplock bags with me for months now, and whenever I find a cache in need of minor maintainance, I "just do it." I've even been known to sit there for 20 minutes or more while the contents dried in the sun.

 

And there was one time that I scooped up all the scattered contents and went to a nearby store to buy a new container. Now I carry an extra gladware container so I can replace it when needed.

 

I don't really care to become the proud parent of an abandoned cache, but doing my part to change its diaper or wipe its nose when I come to visit is a small price to pay.

 

Lil Devil lildevil.gif

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The reason for adopting a cache is that being listed as an owner or admin is the only way to be able to edit the cache listing. What if the coords are off? What if the cache, its stages or clues must be physically changed in order to maintain it, thus making the listing inaccurate? Certainly nothing wrong with wiping a &quotsnotty nose&quot by doing small cache maintenance tasks, but sometimes that's not all that's wrong. I've done both and am happy with my choices in both types of situations.

 

T-storm

 

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

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Adopting a cache also ensures that it will be looked after in the future. Sure, one can fix it up while they are there, but what about when the container leaks in six months? There is no guarantee that a future visitor is going to repair it.

 

If the cache is adopted, however, the new owner will receive email notification of the logs, and therefore of any problems. The adoptor will also include this cache in his/her scheduled maintenance visits.

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The intermediate level is Cache Nanny. Watch it, but not own it. This is usually done in agreement between a remote cacher that placed a cache and a local cacher willing to maintain it. I've got one that I'm a nanny for, and my in-laws are nanny to two current caches.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by Lil Devil:

One thing I don't understand is why people think they must "adopt" a cache just to maintain it? I've been carrying ziplock bags with me for months now, and whenever I find a cache in need of minor maintainance, I "just do it." I've even been known to sit there for 20 minutes or more while the contents dried in the sun.


 

Well, like the cache I found - all that might be left of it is a bunch of wet crap. If the spot is really good, someone might want to adopt it - and replace the whole cache container and contents, just using the original hiding spot. Of course, nobody would want to do this if they didn't get credit for the hide.

 

I'm all for helping to keep run-down caches nice, but I'll only do so much. I'll supply a baggie, and maybe even leave some stuff without taking anything... but I can see how sometimes adoption would be useful in a good hiding spot with a broken down crappo cache.

 

geobanana.gif

The Toe Pages

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quote:
Originally posted by Lil Devil:

One thing I don't understand is why people think they must "adopt" a cache just to maintain it? I've been carrying ziplock bags with me for months now, and whenever I find a cache in need of minor maintainance, I "just do it." I've even been known to sit there for 20 minutes or more while the contents dried in the sun.


 

We always carry zip-locks, extra pencils/pens and such to do minor repairs or replace a bag that's torn. But finding a non-waterproof container that lives under a live spring and contains over an inch of water and slime is not low maintenance. We camo-ed a new, waterproof container and supplied new tschotshkes (sp?) to replace the ruined ones, new log book and pen, etc. to keep a popular cache going recently. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about, where the cache is repeatedly reported with problems and no action or response are forthcoming from the owner of record.

 

Candy

 

Candy (moosiegirl)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CentralTexasGeocachers/

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quote:
Originally posted by Markwell:

The intermediate level is Cache Nanny. Watch it, but not own it. This is usually done in agreement between a remote cacher that placed a cache and a local cacher willing to maintain it. I've got one that I'm a nanny for, and my in-laws are nanny to two current caches.


 

The key word in this being, of course, agreement! And I don't think adoption is the answer in most of those cases.

 

Candy

 

Candy (moosiegirl)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CentralTexasGeocachers/

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quote:
I'm all for helping to keep run-down caches nice, but I'll only do so much. I'll supply a baggie, and maybe even leave some stuff without taking anything... but I can see how sometimes adoption would be useful in a good hiding spot with a broken down crappo cache.

 

My point exactly. On the other hand, we have a cache nearby that has been hidden for at least two years. The original owners have apparently been abducted by aliens. But it's in a GREAT location and was placed in such a way that not much can happen to it unless a tornado blows through. I check occasionally to see that it's being logged and everything looks OK, and if something goes wrong I'll be one of the first over there to check it out, add a new log and pencils, whatever; but so far it's taken care of itself and doesn't really need adoption.

 

Candy

 

Candy (moosiegirl)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CentralTexasGeocachers/

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There is a cache nearby that was left by people that moved. It's a dadgum fine location. Love to keep it alive, not been abandonded... yet.

I had a cache deleted because a few people couldn't find it. (#3511, Silver Beach Cache) It was there, a couple of us knew where it was , even a 5th grade class cleaning the beach found it. But deleted after I had proof it was still there, so I went and picked up the physical unit. Pissed me off as it was a low number.

 

If I were to move from my area, I'd love for someone to keep up the caches I've placed. They might be easy, but not just 'roadside drops'. They are places most people wouln't see on the 'average' tourist routine.

 

'nuff said

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