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memepasmal

Good bye c:geo

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PQ are a total waste of time - as useless as a rotary phone.

 

Since when? Believe it or not, there are many of us who use a dedicated GPSr for geocaching and PQ's are a great feature.

 

I can't imagine not having PQs. An android or iphone is fine for a casual cache or two, but both have battery life issues if you are out for hours caching. I cache in the rain, in a kayak, while xc skiing, etc ... places I really don't want to have my delicate phone out in. A rugged GPS is much better than a phone for worry free all day long caching.

 

Even in my PN-40 whose battery life sucks, it last way longer than my Droid X, and I can just swap the AA batteries when needed.

 

It's all part of our new "Instant Gratification" world. What I'm reading here is that people want to be standing in any parking lot, anywhere on the globe, turn on their phone, be instantly notified that there is a cache in the lamppost 50' away, find it and then log it instantly. If they can't do that then they see no point in geocaching and threaten to withhold membership funds from the company that owns the data in the first place.

 

I guess I'm old fashioned. Planning out my geocaching trips are part of the process and in my opinion, part of the fun.

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It seems to me at this point the best thing, rather than fight among ourselves about it, is to try to get Groundspeak to upgrade their app to what we would like.

 

What's gone is gone.

 

Someone else, I think it was GOF, said that the problem is that Groundspeak thinks of their app as a portal to geocaching.com and what we want is a stand-alone app that is used for caching.

 

I'd like to see people tell Groundspeak what is is we want in an app. Tell them what we need.

 

This may not be the best, but it is a start.

See what you think, add your comments, and maybe we can get Groundspeak to give us a better app.

 

give Groundspeak your feedback here

Edited by Sol seaker

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Someone else, I think it was GOF, said that the problem is that Groundspeak thinks of their app as a portal to geocaching.com and what we want is a stand-alone app that is used for caching

But there already are standalone apps that are used for caching.

 

The problem is that they can't interface with gc.com because they're not allowed to. Instead you have to feed them downloaded PQ data as if they were dedicated devices, which is 1) cumbersome on a phone, 2) requires premium membership, and 3) is archaic in the age of internet-enabled smartphones.

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Unlike our paid iPhone, Android and Windows Phone applications the API will require a geocaching.com account login. To begin, the API-enabled services will be available to active Premium Members - since we have promised them first access to new features.

Don't know where c:geo would sort in all that.

 

Well, that would explain why the author mentioned that 3rd party applications are to use a different version of the API than the official apps, which seemed to have been one of the things that ticked him off so much.

Ahh! I see said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw. I was wondering what the version 1 and version 2 stuff was about. I was wondering if he was talking about the trimble API or what. Yes, I can see that if he was offered the version of the API that requires premium membership he might not want it. But from the full text of Bryan's comments it is not clear that the public API will be different from the official app API other than requiring a login and premium membership. In regards to the iPhone app Bryan does say it is the same API being used by developers on the staging server. Does the iPhone app require a login and premium membership? Or perhaps that hook is disabled in the app.

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It seems to me at this point the best thing, rather than fight among ourselves about it, is to try to get Groundspeak to upgrade their app to what we would like.

 

So what is missing from the official app? The only thing I see missing is the live maps, though the Groundspeak product does have the map view it just doesn't update constantly like c:geo's live view. Other than that, I see the Groundspeak app as having everything else that c:geo has, though I admit I'm not a power user of the app as I almost always geocache with a dedicated unit and use the phone as a backup or for emergency lookup.

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So what is missing from the official app?

I've not used either yet, but from many posts here, it would appear that stability is a major issue. From the forums, it also appears that the official app does not filter out your finds even when instructed to do so. There might be other issues, but these two seem to get the most attention.

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I am a N00B. I have only been hunting caches for a few months. First time I went I thought what a pain to have to print out all the info to bring along and then enter each cache location GPS coordinates into a handheld GPS. I enjoyed the hunting but it wasn't something I would have invested so much prep time into. Then I found CGEO app for my phone. I was so excited that I could pretty much go hunting at any time and anywhere I could find signal. I could plan ahead and store caches for later hunting or just take a peek and see if there was a cache close by and go on the spur of the moment. I was ready to support Groundspeak and buy a membership and was eager to hide my own treasures and put some trackables on the map. Now I am upset because something that was not only fun but easy to take off running with has come to a halt. I don't know anything about whether CGEO violated whatever TOU. I do know that I won't pay $10 for an app from Groundspeak esp given the horrible reviews. I wont pay for a membership because I am sick to death of everyone trying to squeeze every possible penny from people at every opportunity. People say there are other apps but both geobeagle and geohunter require a premium Groundspeak membership in order to function. Why would Groundspeak put a stop to these free apps when they are making money in memberships off them anyway, right? My hope is that other geocaching sites will gain more popularity and I can enjoy hunting those caches without having to pay and pay and pay.........

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Okay.I've managed to stay out of this. And will hopefully make this my last post here.

 

I have to say. 30$ for a PM per year isn't too much. And even with the * huge * cost of 10$ for the app. That is just over 10 cents per day. Jimmy Cricket I think that is going to break the bank!

 

Doesn't seem worth Geocide-ing or PM-ciding over to me.

But hey what do I know.

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Okay.I've managed to stay out of this. And will hopefully make this my last post here.

 

I have to say. 30$ for a PM per year isn't too much. And even with the * huge * cost of 10$ for the app. That is just over 10 cents per day. Jimmy Cricket I think that is going to break the bank!

 

Doesn't seem worth Geocide-ing or PM-ciding over to me.

But hey what do I know.

 

I totally agree!

 

Gotta love the entitlement attitude of some here...

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PQ are a total waste of time - as useless as a rotary phone.

 

Since when? Believe it or not, there are many of us who use a dedicated GPSr for geocaching and PQ's are a great feature.

 

I can't imagine not having PQs. An android or iphone is fine for a casual cache or two, but both have battery life issues if you are out for hours caching. I cache in the rain, in a kayak, while xc skiing, etc ... places I really don't want to have my delicate phone out in. A rugged GPS is much better than a phone for worry free all day long caching.

 

Even in my PN-40 whose battery life sucks, it last way longer than my Droid X, and I can just swap the AA batteries when needed.

 

It's all part of our new "Instant Gratification" world. What I'm reading here is that people want to be standing in any parking lot, anywhere on the globe, turn on their phone, be instantly notified that there is a cache in the lamppost 50' away, find it and then log it instantly. If they can't do that then they see no point in geocaching and threaten to withhold membership funds from the company that owns the data in the first place.

 

I guess I'm old fashioned. Planning out my geocaching trips are part of the process and in my opinion, part of the fun.

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thanks for posting this.

you know, Im new to this Geo caching and my son and I both like it alot. I use the c:geo app in my phone and a gps phone app when I get with about 20 yards for the cords.

this morning I got to thinking about this very thing. perhaps this is a bit too easy using the app. I drive everywhere to find these things burning gas and polluting the air and have found myself looking for longer and longer hikes. Oh, i agree that it gets people started as it has me and my son. But right now I am pricing gps units and saving my pennies to get a premium membership(3 months is only 10 bucks) and trying it out in the outback. Thats really what Im after now. the experiences of getting to and being out and about the world. Im sure i will find something to give me the quick fix but when I have an extra hr to spend Im usually opening a book. Im really looking forward to getting a gps unit and planning the thing out for the adventure as well as the smiley.

just my 2 cents.

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I guess I'm old fashioned. Planning out my geocaching trips are part of the process and in my opinion, part of the fun.

 

Some of us are just more spontaneous. Just imagine having to make an unscheduled trip to take your wife to the spa for her weekly back waxing because her hoopty broke down at the Piggly Wiggly. You're sitting there bored out of your mind and tired of counting the flies on the Happy Meal some rug-rat chunked out the window, so you whip out your magic smart phone and voila! You pull up c:geo in live map mode and there's a cache in the same parking lot you are sitting in! It's like Christmas, only without the fat man watching you sleep :-)

 

Seriously, there's nothing wrong with planning a geocaching trip with your bug spray and Steve Irwin jungle hat already checked off your list, but sometimes you may be out somewhere new and you don't have your gps handy and you don't have a pq downloaded for the area you are in, etc., etc. Having an app on a smart phone with a live map option is the ONLY way to go in that situation. You're there. The caches are there. You have the app to connect the two of you on your smart phone. What more could you want?

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I've been caching since 2008. I only did 3 or 4 caches a month, I was too lazy to always either print out the cache data or add it manually into the programs I used on my phone.

 

Than about half a year ago, I found c:geo. Now I could download cache data at home (through WiFi, I don't want to use my limited data plan too much), store every possible cache data on the phone offline (comments, maps in different sizes), onsite use the compass or radar to find the geocache... It was so great and easy, in the first half of this year, I made almost as many caches as the 3 years before. I even bought a premium membership, because I considered myself now a more serious cacher. All because of c:geo.

 

With it gone, I now have to rethink if I'm going to renew my premium membership next year.

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It was free so its not like the guy was making money off of Groundspeaks product.

 

There is nothing as "Groundspeaks product" - all Groundspeaks value is based on work of geocachers - people who place and maintain caches, their listings and so on...

 

So Groundspeak should go more open to their users - because without them they are nothing. And users can easily move to open alternatives as opencaching.

GS should involve 3rd party developers and support them via functional API available to all - especially in situation in which GS is not able to make official applications work.

Look at official paid app and compare it to open source c:geo. Look at state in which is Wherigo (= dying) and compare it to open source OpenWIG app, look at official Wig builder and compare with alternative Urwigo...

 

In this situation I will not pay neither for PM, nor any official app from GS - I will rather support independent developers of my favourite geocaching apps...

(sorry for my english :-)

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So people are buying a premium membership because they have a great app which means they don't need one. Then when the app is withdrawn and they need a PM they cancel the PM. I'm struggling with the logic here.

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I bought the PM not because I need the premium functionalities, but because I wanted to support Groundspeak. Now that I'm not having a good geocaching app anymore, I'm not interested in supporting GS that much, because I'll be geocaching less.

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Bryan has stated the API will be premium member benefit. There was no mention of costs beyond the costs of premium membership. Perhaps part of the decision by c:geo's author is that if the API was used it would limit the application to premium members.

 

As we have no information about that, we can only speculate. I rather guess that the API does not offer what c:geo needs and that further discussions are therefore irrelevant anyway.

(I know some stories from first hand that show me that Groundspeak's will and ability to be at the upfront of technology is not that high (they have other priorities and interests which is their right). I do know a few highly ingenious developpers among the group of geocachers, I have not encountered such a person in Groundspeak's team and I guess if someone is working at that level he will have no reason to work for Groundspeak. That's not intended as insult, it's just pretty obvious.)

 

As this thread and many others show that many PMs who even have invested the 10$ for the Groundspeak application prefer the free c:geo. It is thus not really a matter of money, but of functionality that a certain group wants to see. (I am not belonging to that group. I am not even owning a smartphone.)

 

 

Cezanne

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Gotta love the entitlement attitude of some here...

 

It's not entitlement...

 

A large part of the geocaching experience comes from the efforts of volunteer cache placers, maintainers and reviewers. Even those who simply find caches are partly responsible for their upkeep and keeping them hidden. It is GC.com that acts as the steward for the data we all so carefully and religiously enter into their database. We are all part of a community that comes together to create the caching experience. Without the efforts of all of us, this hobby would fail.

 

So, GC.com is not entitled to our data anymore than we are entitled to a decent API. That said, it sounds like there is a significant number of people who think they'd rather have GC.com focus on building a strong database system and allow a healthy ecosystem of developers innovate in how we access that data. C:GEO was one example of a developer creating an innovative experience built on the GC.com hosted database.

 

I, for one, do not think Groundspeak should be in the business of creating apps... it is just a distraction from what is at the center of their business. Build a robust database, web interface and API and leave the rest to the community (just like Twitter and Facebook, for example). Make sure they integrate into their API and business model a way to make money to support the database (I favor a system in which PM's have free API access and non-members have limited access... this would encourage more PM's).

 

It is frustrating that (as of yet) we do not have an open and publicly available API which is free to any developer to use to access the database WE created. I believe this wonderful community brought together by the very notion of sharing of data (our cache information) and by the common thrill of cache hunting is held back by the restrictive access policies that are currently in place. The death of C:GEO and the absence of other truly innovative interfaces are examples. It is great to hear an API is in the works and I look forward to it being published.

 

Rob

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Then in what ways has either c:geo or the TOU changed in the past ten months - since the statement of Elias quoted above - so that it no longer is a problem?

 

Nothing. While Elias made the statement in earnest, it was incorrect.

 

But here is one of the things Jeremy has said about it in the past 24 hours:

 

"We're working hard on bringing a scalable API to 3rd party developers, including c:geo, who is one of our early beta partners. Nothing that I know of has changed at Groundspeak. We moved our Android and WP7 applications to the new API to make sure it works well enough to open to 3rd parties. As of last week we deployed our iOS verson to be reviewed by Apple, and if things go well we'll start rolling out partner applications.

 

It is very frustrating to read posts like this when we're making an effort to legitimize c:geo . . . ."

 

Carnero various posts over the last few months/years would indicate this is not the way things were happening.

 

I guess I'm old fashioned. Planning out my geocaching trips are part of the process and in my opinion, part of the fun.

 

We could go real old school and request paper copies of the listing via regular mail then use a compass and topo maps to locate. Technology marches on.

 

So what is missing from the official app? The only thing I see missing is the live maps, though the Groundspeak product does have the map view it

 

This is like saying the only issue with your car is "the steering column is missing". You can still get out and steer by bumping the tires. While there are many other reasons, live maps is a major one. Apparently a showstopper for many.

 

Okay.I've managed to stay out of this. And will hopefully make this my last post here.

 

I have to say. 30$ for a PM per year isn't too much. And even with the * huge * cost of 10$ for the app. That is just over 10 cents per day. Jimmy Cricket I think that is going to break the bank!

 

Doesn't seem worth Geocide-ing or PM-ciding over to me.

But hey what do I know.

I totally agree!

 

Gotta love the entitlement attitude of some here...

 

An example of someone taking a valid post and exhibiting a lack of understanding of the issue discussed with an off handed comment.

 

Entitlement is when you want something for free, undeserved or unearned. Many, like myself, have a pm, paid for the official app and donated to c:geo. A far cry from some form of entitlement. In fact, I would venture to say most people in this thread have done at least two out of those three.

 

Rather than "encouraging" users to avoid c:geo, it seems it would have made more sense for GS to work with the author to help incorporate what had been established as a stable app into their own. At the very least, work with c:geo to require a PM log to access some of the features they appeared to be uncomfortable with.

 

I am not one for dropping PM or walking away from GC over this (those of you who are may want to reconsider), however it is very disappointing that an organization who has shown itself to make many very well thought out decisions regarding the site and hobby appear to be so shortsighted on this one subject. As someone who has defended some of their less popular decisions, this mistake needed to be called out.

 

I don't see them reversing themselves on their position, so only hope that they continue to work on the official app to make it usable, maybe with more of a sense of urgency now they see how important some of these features were to many.

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Oh, I don't know. From my perspective, it just looks like there are a lot of people that are throwing a fit and threatening to geocide because an outside developer decided to stop developing; somehow this is automatically Groundspeak's fault, not sure I understand why, but okay.

 

But the more people that take their ball and decide to go home, the less motivation GS has to play, either. Wouldn't it be better to wait and see what GS develops now that c:geo is going away? Maybe that would motivate them to build a better product, since there no longer is one out there? Who knows? People who throw a tantrum and quit on account of this certainly never will!

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{Pirate software link removed}

 

 

 

I'm personnaly a developper and all my programs are free and open source, but I understand that the people of Groundspeak have to maintain their big database, and it costs a lot of money.

 

Today I'm just sad and I wanted to say. There is a lot of features in c:geo, and they are missing in the official application. I buy it a long time ago, two times (!), once on my iPhone, once on my HTC Android.

 

Thank you for your response IkeHurley.

So the answer is stealing the app? Try again....

Edited by Bryan
Removing link to pirated software.

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I bought the PM not because I need the premium functionalities, but because I wanted to support Groundspeak. Now that I'm not having a good geocaching app anymore, I'm not interested in supporting GS that much, because I'll be geocaching less.

 

Except that in your case, what you were doing was exactly what you would do with your premium membership using PQ's and a different app. It's just a slightly different procedure. You said you get all the caches and download them for offline use at home. With PQ's, you select what you want in the area you want and download them at home. Many of the phone apps - and many are free - will show the data from your PQ on a map on your phone.

 

So please tell us again...

 

Why can't cache like you did, why does a premium membership make less sense for you, and why can't you support Groundspeak?

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I think premium members should get the app for free. Why should I pay for their app when I have already paid them $30. Why don't they make being a premium member worthwhile. I thought I would get more for being a premium member. It doesn't seem that big of a deal for us to get the app for free. Then paying to join would be worth it.

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You're sitting there bored out of your mind and tired of counting the flies on the Happy Meal some rug-rat chunked out the window, so you whip out your magic smart phone and voila!

That was precisely why I finally broke down a year ago and got a unit with a 5000 cache capacity. I call it 'opportunistic' caching, and if you're not leaving a 5000 cache radius, a big PQ always keeps me busy in events such as this. I also load the PQ to my TomTom so I can easily see what I've not found as I'm driving down the road.

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You're sitting there bored out of your mind and tired of counting the flies on the Happy Meal some rug-rat chunked out the window, so you whip out your magic smart phone and voila!

That was precisely why I finally broke down a year ago and got a unit with a 5000 cache capacity. I call it 'opportunistic' caching, and if you're not leaving a 5000 cache radius, a big PQ always keeps me busy in events such as this. I also load the PQ to my TomTom so I can easily see what I've not found as I'm driving down the road.

 

The official app works fine in this situation too.

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The official app works fine in this situation too.

I was pointing out that neither the official nor unofficial app are necessary for most 'opportunistic' caching moments if one has adequate cache storage, even in a fairly high density area. Unplanned travel over a considerable distance is certainly the exception. There, a non-PQ view could come in very handy. The primary advantage is over older or otherwise lesser units that are limited to 500 count. Even then we know that people got around that with POI tricks.

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I find myself wondering if the developer of c:geo only abandoned the development in order to work within the API and basically start over with a new compliant project. Cannot say I've followed any of the development history other than what appears from time to time, but it seems a possibility. He still has the features developed and could probably easily achieve the desired results using the API.

But why continue with the product as it is/was? The code is there for others.. but the scraping will continue to be counterTOU so it's a wasted effort, other than to have prodded for a API to be released.

 

I see nothing wrong with limiting the API major features to PMs 'at first' as mentioned by Bryan. It was promised, and most PM's are probably advanced cachers who would notice flaws and give it a good work out in the field. Still wondering why some people have a working GS app and some can't get it to work at all. Time might be better spent sorting out that. If it works for some then the app works, but the problem might be settings on the non work devices or subtle code tweaks.

 

Also wondering why map updates have to be 'live'. How often does the 'non-live' map update, when called or periodically. It's not like yesterday's caches will be significantly different than today's, is it. Instant notification of local caches would take care of any new ones. You might miss a recent archive or disable unless Instant Notes get sent for those as well.

 

Not a mobile device user here, so I have no idea what they actually function like. I just saw some of these as questions to be answered. I can't even read most cell phone displays, hard enough with the GPS screens. The one smart phone (model??) was so small I couldn't even make out the icons on the menu, with my glasses on, or use the keypad. I think the concept is great though! Just waiting for a device that is a bit bigger to hold, type on and make calls on. Oh yes! It better not use the system promoted by LightSquared, since that poses a problem to hear the GPS satellites we need to hunt. I found that to be ironic in a way since all these G4 products are creating the demand that led to their proposal for wide area coverage in the first place. Go figure.

 

Doug 7rxc

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Moreover, Jeremy's post is not saying anything about whether the API has been offered for free.

 

Cezanne

 

But Bryan's post does:

 

The new API is being licensed royalty free to developers who are permitted to charge for their apps or not. We believe they should be paid for the work they do, to the extent that they want to be paid.

 

One speculation* I have with this whole c:geo live maps thing is if the API has a request rate limit like the Google Earth KML function did when originally launched. Other major services like Google Maps API v2 and Twitter API have request limits per hour or per day so this would not be unreasonable for Groundspeak to prevent a rogue/poor developer from causing too much load or vacuuming the entire database to a competing site.

 

Limiting the API calls per minute or per hour would cause issues for an app that, say, wanted the closest 100 unfound caches for a live display map, every 15 seconds from the API.

 

Potentially: 60 minutes in an hour, 4 times a minute (every 15 seconds), 100 caches would be 240 API calls. Or 24,000 API calls if he grabbed them one at a time.

The web scraping would most certainly be 24,000 downloads an hour at a 15 second refresh rate without any application caching.

 

* I sure as heck don't have inside info on this one, so I'm speculating.

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Limiting the API calls per minute or per hour would cause issues for an app that, say, wanted the closest 100 unfound caches for a live display map, every 15 seconds from the API.

 

Potentially: 60 minutes in an hour, 4 times a minute (every 15 seconds), 100 caches would be 240 API calls. Or 24,000 API calls if he grabbed them one at a time.

The web scraping would most certainly be 24,000 downloads an hour at a 15 second refresh rate without any application caching.

I've wondered why at this point does the c:geo author decide to throw in the towel? Wonder if GS made it plain to him if he was not using the API that GS would start sending nasty-grams based on the high page requests to users indicating that they are using a screen scrapper? And if they can not justify the usage they will start throttling or shutting down accounts? With or Without an available API his code can continue to work as long as it tracks website changes. But maybe he has just moved on to other interests and no longer wishes to continue the almost monthly maintenance and is using GS as the reason he is quitting. Just seems strange that when it seems likely that the API will be released in the next couple months that c:geo goes belly up. I could see GS more aggressively going after high web usage accounts within a few weeks of the API release, especially if that release broke c:geo yet again.

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The funniest part of the whole thing is that c:geo is like some sort of revelation to Android users. We (WM users) have had that same level of quality for the last 2 years.

 

I would like to know what, if any, rules GS has placed on developers when interacting with the API. Are they allowed to do continuous polling (live map)? and those sorts of things.

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So what is missing from the official app?

 

I've been switching back and forth between the official app, and C:Geo. I found myself using C:Geo more often because it allowed for movement of trackables, and it was just a little quicker and more stable than the GS app. Other than that, the live map was nice, but not necessary to me, and it was kind of interesting to see other Cachers on the map.

 

My understanding is that GS is going to be adding trackable stuff, and they may already have done so. I haven't checked it in a few weeks.

 

When I first heard about C:Geo stopping development, I was kind of peeved. The more I think about it though I don't think C:Geo offered THAT much more than the official app.

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On a more philosophical note, other than the live map, people like c:geo because it gives them PM like benefits without having to be a PM. I get that. I did that with GCzII for 1.5years. But then I realized that $30 is not very much, and there are lots of other great benefits from a PM, and it supports the website that enables me to enjoy this sport/hobby/activity (whatever it is).

 

I think that c:geo's developer is being silly to think that BM have a god given right to have access to the API and the speed etc. that comes with that.

 

The subject of API calls per minute is really interesting. I would like to know if there is a rule like that.

 

...Also wondering why map updates have to be 'live'. How often does the 'non-live' map update, when called or periodically. It's not like yesterday's caches will be significantly different than today's, is it. Instant notification of local caches would take care of any new ones. You might miss a recent archive or disable unless Instant Notes get sent for those as well....

The live is for when moving. If you are driving, it would be nice to automaticaly always show the caches that are around you.

 

What would be really cool is if the app measured the cycle time of the requests, and projected where your possition would be after that much time, then requested the caches for that location. Or even, bassed on your speed advanced the coordinates of the search even farther so that your possition when the caches were displayed on the map was at the bottom of the 'circle' of caches. That would be cool. But it may run into issues if there is a API calls per minute or hour limit.

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So what is missing from the official app?

 

I've been switching back and forth between the official app, and C:Geo. I found myself using C:Geo more often because it allowed for movement of trackables, and it was just a little quicker and more stable than the GS app. Other than that, ...

The WP7 official app allows for movement of trackables, so you can expect that to appear in the next version of the Android app. What I find most anoying is that the only option for trackables in your inventory is to drop; no option for visit. I have a TB that I have visit all my finds. So I end up using the field note option, then on the web page, submit the field note from there (of course you can select visit from the web page). Also, my model of phone has a bad GPS, and so far WP7 does not have the serial port profile for bluetooth, so I can't use my bluetooth GPS. Due to those reasons, I often still use my old WM6.5 phone with GCzII, so I can sympithise with you...

 

Edit to add: Also, it is difficult to add a WP using the official WP7 app.

Edited by Andronicus

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C:Geo got me into geocaching less than a year ago. I was looking for free apps (not just geocaching apps) for my android phone and this popped up with excellent user ratings (for the most part). Less than a month later I was hooked and bought a PM. The pure ease of use made this a great introduction to the game and since then I have bought a GPSr, trackables, and various other items related to the search for tupperware in the forest!

 

I will NOT be one of those that doesn't renew my membership. I enjoy the game way too much to completely abandon it. However, I will probably be one of those cachers that will cache less since the ease of C:Geo made caching a truly spontaneous game for me and my family. I'll download the PQs and upload them to my unit, but it won't quite be the same, especially if I'm in a new area unexpectedly. I'll use the site now and peruse their beta map and then plug and play.

 

I have avoided purchasing the official app specifically because of all the issues that multiple reviewers have complained about. I'm one of those shoppers that will look for multiple sources of evaluation in order to make a purchase to guarantee that I get my money's worth. I've done it with my cars, coffee makers, computers and my GPSr (this site was the first and then final place I looked for my 60Csx). As consumers, it is our right to demand a quality product for the money we are spending. For 10$, the official app isn't garnering the type of reviews that makes me want to go out and get it. I know it's only 10 dollars, but it's MY 10 dollars to spend and I don't wish to spend it on an app that isn't as good as a free one was (I've used someone else's GS app for the android and wasn't particularly impressed).

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It seems to me at this point the best thing, rather than fight among ourselves about it, is to try to get Groundspeak to upgrade their app to what we would like.

 

See what you think, add your comments, and maybe we can get Groundspeak to give us a better app.

 

give Groundspeak your feedback here

 

bumping my link.

 

It is a bit surprising to see people having a fit over paying ten bucks for Groundspeak's app.

Hey, I'm at least as tight with money as the next guy, but really ten bucks?

I paid 150 for my last GPS and untold amounts in gas for this game.

 

I spent more than that placing my last geocache.

 

ten bucks? Really? You're going to make an issue of that?

 

Sure volunteers place the cache, but we don't maintain this website.

Sure they couldn't have their website without us, but we couldn't play our game without them either.

It takes a lot to keep a website like this going. Not to mention the building rent they pay to house their office and their employees that keep this going.

 

Because they have so many positions as volunteer (such as reviewers) they can keep the PM price down to 30 a year and are able to offer free memberships too.

 

Those who complain about the price of membership and the app, tell me how much you pay every MONTH for cable.

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It is a bit surprising to see people having a fit over paying ten bucks for Groundspeak's app.

Reading back, seems that most people are complaining about paying $10 for an app that crashes often and doesn't work well.

 

I paid almost $300 for a GPSr that works, and I'm happy with that. If I had paid $10 for a GPSr that crashes all the time, I wouldn't be happy with it at all.

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Reading back, seems that most people are complaining about paying $10 for an app that crashes often and doesn't work well.

 

I paid almost $300 for a GPSr that works, and I'm happy with that. If I had paid $10 for a GPSr that crashes all the time, I wouldn't be happy with it at all.

 

That says it very succinctly and very well. If the GS app worked as well or better than c:geo, I'd pay 3 times the price with nary a complaint.

Edited by Cheminer Will

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Looks like my summer project just became learning java so that I can keep this app up to date for myself.

Start with geobeagle.which has lots of info on how to build your own apk file.

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I've been using the Groundspeak app on my iPhone, and it works just fine. The satellite view is much better than a map on the GPS, and it does update as I'm moving toward a cache. I can log a find and a picture immediately after finding the cache right at ground zero. The other day when the site went down, the app still looked like it worked OK (it was raining). I don't think the C:geo would. The accuracy sucks, but with the satellite view, its actually better than a GPS in most places that show landmarks.

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I am a N00B. I have only been hunting caches for a few months. First time I went I thought what a pain to have to print out all the info to bring along and then enter each cache location GPS coordinates into a handheld GPS. I enjoyed the hunting but it wasn't something I would have invested so much prep time into. Then I found CGEO app for my phone. I was so excited that I could pretty much go hunting at any time and anywhere I could find signal. I could plan ahead and store caches for later hunting or just take a peek and see if there was a cache close by and go on the spur of the moment. I was ready to support Groundspeak and buy a membership and was eager to hide my own treasures and put some trackables on the map. Now I am upset because something that was not only fun but easy to take off running with has come to a halt. I don't know anything about whether CGEO violated whatever TOU. I do know that I won't pay $10 for an app from Groundspeak esp given the horrible reviews. I wont pay for a membership because I am sick to death of everyone trying to squeeze every possible penny from people at every opportunity. People say there are other apps but both geobeagle and geohunter require a premium Groundspeak membership in order to function. Why would Groundspeak put a stop to these free apps when they are making money in memberships off them anyway, right? My hope is that other geocaching sites will gain more popularity and I can enjoy hunting those caches without having to pay and pay and pay.........

 

Since I can only agree with you completely. I've been addicted for about 4 months to geocaching and now also at a premium member "geocaching.com." c: geo helped me to facilitate the search for caches, because this paperless caching also allows offline. I find it a shame that is such a great project set. Just by c: geo androidapp as I've only come to me to deal more intensively with the cache. I hope that there maybe still from another programmer will be further developed.

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Those who complain about the price of membership and the app, tell me how much you pay every MONTH for cable.

 

 

I'm not complaining about the price of both (especially the PM). I'm complaining about the quality of the official app and the cost associated with it. I had satellite TV (DIsh) and every time we had a storm roll through we lost service. I wasn't happy with the money I spent to get it so we switched. You can bet that if my current provider were to have issues either with delivery or content that I'd be looking for a better product to spend my money on.

 

For a relatively expensive app (compared to the vast majority that are on the android market) I expect an application that works consistently. If you look at the ratings for the official app, they're all over the place and the reasons vary as to why. I can understand if there's a bug or two, but it appears that there are multiple problems for multiple people.

 

It isn't the amount of money I'm spending that is the issue (10 dollars is a drop in the bucket); it's the satisfaction with the product I receive for the money I spent.

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So what is missing from the official app?

 

I've been switching back and forth between the official app, and C:Geo. I found myself using C:Geo more often because it allowed for movement of trackables, and it was just a little quicker and more stable than the GS app. Other than that, the live map was nice, but not necessary to me, and it was kind of interesting to see other Cachers on the map.

 

My understanding is that GS is going to be adding trackable stuff, and they may already have done so. I haven't checked it in a few weeks.

 

When I first heard about C:Geo stopping development, I was kind of peeved. The more I think about it though I don't think C:Geo offered THAT much more than the official app.

I kind of agree!! C:geo is good but posters on here make it sound like it's some sort of magic program which even opens the cache for you...

 

I started by downloading the official app, but then found c:geo which was far better than the v1 app. The v2 is far better now and the differences to g:geo are minimal (live map).

The other issue is c:geo started not to hind my finds which was frustrating.

 

But after a couple of months caching I bought a GPSr...which is the way to go...but that's another story....

 

I just use the official app if I'm 'out and about' and wonder if there any caches around.

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I've been using the Groundspeak app on my iPhone, and it works just fine. The satellite view is much better than a map on the GPS, and it does update as I'm moving toward a cache. I can log a find and a picture immediately after finding the cache right at ground zero. The other day when the site went down, the app still looked like it worked OK (it was raining). I don't think the C:geo would. The accuracy sucks, but with the satellite view, its actually better than a GPS in most places that show landmarks.

I think you are misunderstanding what the live map is. C:geo continually searches the geocaching.com web page using your current coordinates. So as you move, new caches will show up, and ones that are now farther away will drop off (or maybe they stay, I can't remember - it is awhile since I used it).

 

Haven't used the Android official app, but the WP7 one is fairly good. There is definitely room for improvement, and it has a bug or two, but I suspect this will change once the Lackeys finish rolling out the API and have more time for actual software development.

 

I want to know why c:geo is somehow believed to be the only software that will ever be any good. Once the API is rolled out, I believe there will be a lot of developers making sweet apps. People don't need to think that there will never again be a good homebrew geocaching app.

Edited by Andronicus

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It's all part of our new "Instant Gratification" world. What I'm reading here is that people want to be standing in any parking lot, anywhere on the globe, turn on their phone, be instantly notified that there is a cache in the lamppost 50' away, find it and then log it instantly.

 

But, you can do that with the official GS app! I use it that way frequently when I'm on non-geocaching road trips.

 

The only thing that c:geo does differently is display all of the nearby caches on a map. The GS app shows them in a list, sorted by distance from your current location.

 

I really don't see that stupid map being enough of a benefit for anyone to geocide over it's absence.

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I think premium members should get the app for free. Why should I pay for their app when I have already paid them $30.

 

I'm a member of Costco. I think I should get my groceries for free.

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The only thing that c:geo does differently is display all of the nearby caches on a map. The GS app shows them in a list, sorted by distance from your current location.

 

I really don't see that stupid map being enough of a benefit for anyone to geocide over it's absence.

 

It does that too, it just doesn't update it as you move. Some people seem to think it's a good idea to drive with a live view of the caches around them. Serious caching addicts, methinks.

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The only thing that c:geo does differently is display all of the nearby caches on a map. The GS app shows them in a list, sorted by distance from your current location.

 

I really don't see that stupid map being enough of a benefit for anyone to geocide over it's absence.

 

It does that too, it just doesn't update it as you move. Some people seem to think it's a good idea to drive with a live view of the caches around them. Serious caching addicts, methinks.

I'm surprised they are not complaining that they can't text their friends, twitter the world and post on facebook all at the same time while driving by caches.

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I'm surprised they are not complaining that they can't text their friends, twitter the world and post on facebook all at the same time while driving by caches.

 

Because people who know how to actually use their smartphones do that already, if that's what they want to do. You don't need it all in one app.

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We took a family trip several months ago... i kept my droidx in the car dock running the live map in c:geo so i didn't have to keep hitting "follow me" and "search here" while driving.. you can't be save while operating the phone and driving. don't do it!!!!

 

i could have written a pocket query i know.. but have you loaded a large PQ into the android app lately? took almost an hour!!!!

 

but i digress...

 

we drove with the c:geo live map.. when we got to or close to GZ, we always fired up the official app "which still has no name"!!!!

 

hopefully GS will bring out a live map.. on the feedback sight, it's being considered. i will truly love it when it gets here.

 

as far as problems go.. i have had some.. but a feedback post and a short wait provided me with an update.

 

if you can't provide them enough information to fix your problem, they can't and they won't. very simple.

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I overreacted like many people in this post once hearing the new about c:geo. I’m new to the game and me and my girl are having a grate time going out and finding caches. We use c:geo because it works the way we want it to. I love the live maps and the ability to log a find right after putting it back.

 

I just hope c:geo will continue to update their app to run as it does now or better. I would also like to see GS make their app just as good if not better than c:geo’s. Variety is the spice of life. Weather it’s variety in what GPS unite you choose to use or what app you choose to use. We should all be able to hunt the way we want.

 

I get the feeling the people using traditional GPS units don’t like the new players emerging that like to use their smart phones to go caching…. Kind of like the old man on his porch shaking his cane at the youngsters skateboarding down the sidewalk. We should all embrace technology, no matter who’s using it or what it is. It can only bring advances in our world. After all, if it wasn’t for technology geocaching wouldn’t even exist to begin with.

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