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Jeremy

Ability to Audit Your Caches?

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Do you want the ability to audit all your caches? Keep in mind that only logged in users could see your caches, since auditing can't occur unless the site knows who you are.

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...but worry about only logged-in users being allowed to view caches. I would prefer to allow anyone to see all caches, regardless of whether or not they have an account and are logged in.

 

Would it be possible in those instances to list "unknown" in the audit? I realize that this would not help with identifying possible plunderers, but I prefer that to locking out those without accounts.

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

Would it be possible in those instances to list "unknown" in the audit? I realize that this would not help with identifying possible plunderers, but I prefer that to locking out those without accounts.


 

Depends on what your goals are with an audit. If you just want a counter, you can include an image from sites who offer these utilities. For the sake of this poll, you do not have the option of listing "unknown" as a visitor (unless their username is "unknown" that is...), and you do have to log in first to see it.

 

In the UI I would do the same thing as when folks click on "log a cache" and they aren't logged in.

 

Jeremy

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I would like to be able to set my caches as any of the following:

 

1 Public, everyone signed in or not can see.

2 Member only, only signed in members can see

3 Signed in, anyone signed in can see and I can get an audit.

 

Currently I have no plans for Member only caches, but if "Signed in" was a choice I would use it for some (but not all). I think there should always be some caches available for a person who just found geocaching.com but is not sure they want an account before they try to find a cache.

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I'm voting yes for this feature, along with a question. What exactly is the downside of requiring folks to log into geocaching.com before being able to view a cache's details?

 

In the past, we have been pretty universal in complaining about lurker cachers; those that view a cache page and go hunt it, but never log the find on the website and many times don't even log it in the book.

 

I've read comments that some people don't log finds on the website because they don't want the men-in-black knowing what they are doing, especially when they forget their aluminum foil hats. I'm think I can make the assumption that the majority of these lurkers that shadow cache aren't even registered on the site for the very same reason, concern over the black helicopters watching them.

 

If I'm correct, then three things will come out of requiring folks to log in before they can view a cache:

  1. We will see a much truer number of cachers around the world reflected in Jeremy's registered user count.
  2. We will see a reduction in the number of shadow cachers along with an increase in the number of logs we see on our caches.
  3. And last, another flame war erupt from the shadow/lurker cachers who now have to sign up (even if its free) to be able to cache. Rather than the prior Pay to Play, this one will be Reveal Who I Am To Play.

 

All in all, I'd like to see this feature along with the requirment to log in befoe viewing...

 

Member:

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quote:
Originally posted by Team CacheCows of Wisconsin:

 

What exactly is the downside of requiring folks to log into geocaching.com before being able to view a cache's details?


 

For me, it is simply that I don't want to limit anyone from being able to view my caches. For example, I did a phone interview today with a reporter doing a story on geocaching. I was able to point her to my cache pages and she, without having to sign up for an account, was able to view them. Similarly, I can point people who have never heard of geocaching to the site and they can browse at their leisure without having to "jump in with both feet" and sign up for an account right away.

 

By adding the requirement that you must be logged in to view cache details, you are adding a barrier to entry for newbies. We who are experienced with the site know what's "on the other side" and recognize that the "cost" of creating an account is trivial. To someone who new to the site, however, account creation is an unknown quantity and a task that might deter them from ever exploring enough to become involved in the activity.

 

Just MHO.

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

For me, it is simply that I don't want to limit anyone from being able to view my caches. By adding the requirement that you must be logged in to view cache details, you are adding a barrier to entry for newbies.


 

Agreed. I also know of many folks who absolutely, positively, refuse to allow one single cookie on their machine, even though a session cookie is pretty benign. We use session cookies unless you decide to go whole hog with the autologin feature, and they go away once your session is over.

 

Jeremy

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... not so much because "it's my cache," but because I would like to know how many times my cache pages have been visited. (Curiosity killed the squirrel? icon_eek.gif ) I was considering adding a simple counter on my own, but I certainly wouldn't mind if it was built in.

 

I am in favor of requiring anyone who views the details of a cache page to be logged in first, but it shouldn't be necessary just to see a list of caches in an area. Anyone who is merely checking out the Website and who doesn't have an account (I don't mean the paid account) can still get an idea of the number and proximity of Geocaches by entering Zip Code or their State/Country from the homepage. Thanks for listening.

 

Cheers ...

 

~Rich in NEPA~

 

1132_1200.jpg

 

=== A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ===

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... not so much because "it's my cache," but because I would like to know how many times my cache pages have been visited. (Curiosity killed the squirrel? icon_eek.gif ) I was considering adding a simple counter on my own, but I certainly wouldn't mind if it was built in.

 

I am in favor of requiring anyone who views the details of a cache page to be logged in first, but it shouldn't be necessary just to see a list of caches in an area. Anyone who is merely checking out the Website and who doesn't have an account (I don't mean the paid account) can still get an idea of the number and proximity of Geocaches by entering Zip Code or their State/Country from the homepage. Thanks for listening.

 

Cheers ...

 

~Rich in NEPA~

 

1132_1200.jpg

 

=== A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ===

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quote:
Originally posted by Rich in NEPA:

... not so much because "it's _my_ cache," but because I would like to know how many times my cache pages have been visited. (Curiosity killed the squirrel? icon_eek.gif ) I was considering adding a simple counter on my own, but I certainly wouldn't mind if it was built in.


 

My thought to this is that, although a cool feature, this would not be the reason for creating this function. If the desire is there I may add a visit counter.

 

Jeremy

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quote:
Originally posted by Rich in NEPA:

... not so much because "it's _my_ cache," but because I would like to know how many times my cache pages have been visited. (Curiosity killed the squirrel? icon_eek.gif ) I was considering adding a simple counter on my own, but I certainly wouldn't mind if it was built in.


 

My thought to this is that, although a cool feature, this would not be the reason for creating this function. If the desire is there I may add a visit counter.

 

Jeremy

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

My thought to this is that, although a cool feature, this would not be the reason for creating this function.


 

I guess I don't see what other valid reason there would be. Can you explain? If it is to prevent plundering, how would this achieve that result? icon_confused.gif I can understand the advantage of a MO Cache in this situation, but even that is no sure guarantee, right? TIA.

 

~Rich in NEPA~

 

1132_1200.jpg

 

=== A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ===

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

My thought to this is that, although a cool feature, this would not be the reason for creating this function.


 

I guess I don't see what other valid reason there would be. Can you explain? If it is to prevent plundering, how would this achieve that result? icon_confused.gif I can understand the advantage of a MO Cache in this situation, but even that is no sure guarantee, right? TIA.

 

~Rich in NEPA~

 

1132_1200.jpg

 

=== A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ===

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Yes, i would like to audit my caches, but i did vote no!

 

In this country we are still waiting for the Geocaching boom. When people get into Geocaching, they usually start by visiting the site, checking to see if there are any caches close to where they live. If so, they might go out and find one, then register and log their find on the web site.

 

If they had to register before they could start looking for caches, most of them would probably not bother at all.

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I tend to have a high level of disdain for sites that require login just to browse. You know, like finding out how much some e-commerce site is selling a particular item for.

 

I am thinking back to December when I learned of Geocaching via a newspaper article. I came to the site and found a cache less than a mile from my home, so I grabbed my daughter and off we went. I may have be turned off if this cache (the only one I looked at that day) wasn't viewable without an account.

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Yes to the ability to audit my cache pages.

 

No to requiring registration (paid or unpaid) before viewing cache pages.

 

Yes to adding the *option* of a counter

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling:

Yes to the ability to audit my cache pages.

 

No to requiring registration (paid or unpaid) before viewing cache pages.

 

Yes to adding the *option* of a counter


I'm in total agreement with Web-ling...

 

-exConn

 

What is Project Virginia?

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This is really a good reason to have auto logins. The only reason I ever don't log in is because I forget to, although, with the new auto-login, I am always logged in.

 

I can appreciate that there are those who would prefer to remain anonymous, but this is the exception, I feel. There is a certain level of paranoia that some folks feel about registering on any site, and that is their choice. It is my choice to know who is viewing my cache pages, and be able to monitor them. My experience has been that the great majority of folks who have logged my caches in the logbook have also logged them on the website, so I don't feel I will be losing anything much by requiring registration and a log in to view my caches. Indeed, I will be gaining more than I will be losing.

 

In order for this to work, auto login must be standard, or at least be a selectable default for users. There should also be a note to tell site users that unless they register, many caches will not be viewable to them. This might scare off some of the "paranoiacs" but IMO, that's the breaks. In time, I think so many of the "public caches" will become "registered users only" caches, that everyone who wants to use the site will just register anyway.

 

I would be interested in some discussion about the reluctance of some people to regiester online. Personally, I just don't get it. Especially with a site like this one that takes pains to see that our personal information is not disseminated, and really doesn't collect any "personal" information, anyway, to my recollection.

 

bunkerdave

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quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling:

Yes to the ability to audit my cache pages.

 

No to requiring registration (paid or unpaid) before viewing cache pages.


Its my understanding that these two requests are mutually exclusive. Auditing requires login, otherwise the site has no idea on who is viewing the page, hence it can't be 'audited'.

 

At least that's what I got our of Jeremy's comments...

 

Member:

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I voted Yes, but I want to change my vote to No, unless Moun10Bike's suggestion of allowing "Anonymous" or maybe an IP Address is implemented. I wouldn't be surprised if some public internet access terminals disable cookies altogether. The poll feature doesn't allow one to change one's vote.

 

Also, there should be an easy way to "log out" when you have autologin turned on. It's conceivable that somebody else might want to borrow my computer someday to log a cache. (Well, I can always hope.)

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I voted "no" because you didn't offer a "yes if..." option.

 

I'd say, "yes if..."

1. The audit feature could be selectively turned on/off by the cache owner.

 

2. When toggled "on", the cache's general location and info page (sans coordinates) could be viewed without logging in, i.e. it would show up in a zip code or proximity search of at least 10 miles.

 

I think this would offer the best of both worlds. A person without an account or not signed in would be able to view all caches that did not have the audit feature toggled "on", and they would also see the details (except coordinates) on all "audited" caches within their search area. They would then have the information to decide whether it was "worth it" to create an account or sign in.

 

Worldtraveler

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I voted yes because I believe the cacher should be able to make up his/her own mind. But I also believe that only the coords should be hidden. That way the "newby" can get a feel for what geocaching is all about and be more likely to sign on. I don't like to register on most sites because I don't like them sending a bunch of e-mail offers.

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quote:
Originally posted by bunkerdave:

 

Can I paste a counter into my cache pages?

 


 

Yes you can. Just use any free counter service on the web and paste the code in your cache description. Make sure that the counter doesn't use Javascript. I put a counter on one of my caches (link below). Click on the small graph icon on the cache page to see the stats.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=15784

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quote:
Originally posted by Gustaf:

 

Yes you can. Just use any free counter service on the web and paste the code in your cache description. Make sure that the counter doesn't use Javascript. I put a counter on one of my caches (link below). Click on the small graph icon on the cache page to see the stats.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=15784

 

Thanks Gustaf for the link. Now does anyone know of an equivalent counter service that is not in Swedish (sorry but my language skills are not that good icon_wink.gif )

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quote:
Originally posted by Gustaf:

 

Yes you can. Just use any free counter service on the web and paste the code in your cache description. Make sure that the counter doesn't use Javascript. I put a counter on one of my caches (link below). Click on the small graph icon on the cache page to see the stats.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=15784

 

Thanks Gustaf for the link. Now does anyone know of an equivalent counter service that is not in Swedish (sorry but my language skills are not that good icon_wink.gif )

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I don't see any problem with requiring a user to be logged in in order to see the coordinates either. Yes, I can see that some folks might be hesitant to sign up for all the reasons mentioned above, but personally it doesn't bother me.

 

Regards,

Tedoca

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quote:
Originally posted by nodrog:

 

Now does anyone know of an equivalent counter service that is not in Swedish


 

Sorry - I forgot mine was in Swedish, but you can select another language.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

 

Do you want the ability to audit all your caches?


 

What does "audit" mean in this context?

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I'm all for only allowing registered users to view geocache data. But then again I've never been a fan of those people who hunt but never mention that they've hunted... but that's a whole different topic. icon_biggrin.gif Overall, I like Team CacheCows's ideas.

 

-IC

 

quote:
Originally posted by Team CacheCows of Wisconsin:

I'm voting yes for this feature, along with a question. What exactly is the downside of requiring folks to log into geocaching.com before being able to view a cache's details?

 

In the past, we have been pretty universal in complaining about _lurker_ cachers; those that view a cache page and go hunt it, but never log the find on the website and many times don't even log it in the book.

 

I've read comments that some people don't log finds on the website because they don't want the men-in-black knowing what they are doing, especially when they forget their aluminum foil hats. I'm think I can make the assumption that the majority of these lurkers that shadow cache aren't even registered on the site for the very same reason, concern over the black helicopters watching them.

 

If I'm correct, then three things will come out of requiring folks to log in before they can view a cache:+ We will see a much truer number of cachers around the world reflected in Jeremy's registered user count.+ We will see a reduction in the number of shadow cachers along with an increase in the number of logs we see on our caches.+ And last, another flame war erupt from the shadow/lurker cachers who now have to sign up (even if its free) to be able to cache. Rather than the prior _Pay to Play_, this one will be _Reveal Who I Am To Play_.

 

All in all, I'd like to see this feature along with the requirment to log in befoe viewing...

 

Member:http://www.wi-geocaching.com


 

______________________

Iron Chef

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I'm all for only allowing registered users to view geocache data. But then again I've never been a fan of those people who hunt but never mention that they've hunted... but that's a whole different topic. icon_biggrin.gif Overall, I like Team CacheCows's ideas.

 

-IC

 

quote:
Originally posted by Team CacheCows of Wisconsin:

I'm voting yes for this feature, along with a question. What exactly is the downside of requiring folks to log into geocaching.com before being able to view a cache's details?

 

In the past, we have been pretty universal in complaining about _lurker_ cachers; those that view a cache page and go hunt it, but never log the find on the website and many times don't even log it in the book.

 

I've read comments that some people don't log finds on the website because they don't want the men-in-black knowing what they are doing, especially when they forget their aluminum foil hats. I'm think I can make the assumption that the majority of these lurkers that shadow cache aren't even registered on the site for the very same reason, concern over the black helicopters watching them.

 

If I'm correct, then three things will come out of requiring folks to log in before they can view a cache:+ We will see a much truer number of cachers around the world reflected in Jeremy's registered user count.+ We will see a reduction in the number of shadow cachers along with an increase in the number of logs we see on our caches.+ And last, another flame war erupt from the shadow/lurker cachers who now have to sign up (even if its free) to be able to cache. Rather than the prior _Pay to Play_, this one will be _Reveal Who I Am To Play_.

 

All in all, I'd like to see this feature along with the requirment to log in befoe viewing...

 

Member:http://www.wi-geocaching.com


 

______________________

Iron Chef

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While I'm logged in and grab the coordinates via a loc file, is this logged as a visit with each cache selected when I press the "Check All" button? If not, than I'm seeing a potential loophole.

 

Is there anyway that people could see all but the coordinates when not logged in? This would give first time visitors a chance to see what it is that they're missing out on.

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quote:
Originally posted by Choberiba:

While I'm logged in and grab the coordinates via a loc file, is this logged as a visit with each cache selected when I press the "Check All" button? If not, than I'm seeing a potential loophole.


Your question may indeed be a loophole to getting around the audit, but keep in mind that the hunter will only have the co-ordinates. They will not know what they are looking for etc. The co-ordinates may be to the parking area, to the first of a multi-stage, to an offset.

 

Its a risk, but I don't think that big of one...

 

Member:

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I voted no.

 

The registration requirement should not be tied to viewing public cache information.

 

I would also not want any of the caches I post to be marked as usable only by those with a logon. Givent he option above I would have no choice. With the MO situation I have a choice, with this I do not.

 

No choice means I dont post.

 

When auditing a site you would get a count of loged in users with thier detials and then a count of nonloged in users with no detail.

 

In an age where privacy, logins and accumulated personal info is a concern I think it would nto do geocaching.com any good to require folks either submit or be turned away from the whole enchilada

 

Its all about choices.

 

-tom

 

----------------------------

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

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While out and about I was thinking about this issue.

 

I don't think I've *ever* filled in the correct information on any website until I was familiar

with it. (I can't remember what I initially used on this one)

 

My point being that:

A) Anybody who wants to take a peek can do so without giving away info.

:( Whatever info you see listed by a user name is only as accurate as it's source. (garbage in - garbage out)

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quote:
Originally posted by Choberiba:

Is there anyway that people could see all but the coordinates when not logged in? This would give first time visitors a chance to see what it is that they're missing out on.


That's exactly what I'd like to see. If you aren't logged in, no lat-long, and maybe no map. You can read about caching and caches all you want, but if you want to hunt one, you have to sign up. Maybe even include a free aluminum foil hat with each account. icon_wink.gif

 

> Martin (Magellan 330)

Don't have time to program and record your shows while geocaching? Get a TiVo!

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quote:
Originally posted by Choberiba:

Is there anyway that people could see all but the coordinates when not logged in? This would give first time visitors a chance to see what it is that they're missing out on.


That's exactly what I'd like to see. If you aren't logged in, no lat-long, and maybe no map. You can read about caching and caches all you want, but if you want to hunt one, you have to sign up. Maybe even include a free aluminum foil hat with each account. icon_wink.gif

 

> Martin (Magellan 330)

Don't have time to program and record your shows while geocaching? Get a TiVo!

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I voted no, because I feel that anyone should be able to browse the public caches. Perhaps only logged on folks should be able to watch a cache/bug, and maybe only logged on folks should be able to log a note or find, and for sure only logged on folks should be able to create a cache, but as far as general access goes....I think we'd be turning geophytes away at the door. As far as Auditing for ANTI-PILLAGE measures....well, the IP and Date/Time stamp should suffice, it works that way for server admins around the world every day. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Incidit in Scyllam, cupicns vitare Charybdim

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I voted no, because I feel that anyone should be able to browse the public caches. Perhaps only logged on folks should be able to watch a cache/bug, and maybe only logged on folks should be able to log a note or find, and for sure only logged on folks should be able to create a cache, but as far as general access goes....I think we'd be turning geophytes away at the door. As far as Auditing for ANTI-PILLAGE measures....well, the IP and Date/Time stamp should suffice, it works that way for server admins around the world every day. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Incidit in Scyllam, cupicns vitare Charybdim

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quote:
Originally posted by martinp13:

That's exactly what I'd like to see.


 

I'd like to add that those who haven't signed in should be able to read the logs. Seeing that people are out having fun with the family will motivate many.

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That's the way that it is now.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Scylla & Charybdis:

...Perhaps only logged on folks should be able to watch a cache/bug, and maybe only logged on folks should be able to log a note or find, and for sure only logged on folks should be able to create a cache...


 

I, personally, stick with my thoughts that users should be required to login to gain details about a cache. It wouldn't be the radical departure that some people are trying to make it out to be. It's not like the registration process is big, mean, and complicated. You don't even have to have a verified e-mail account right now to be able to do some things on the site. If people want to wear aluminum hats because they're scared about their privacy then they shouldn't go outside... the G-Men have eyes everywhere that can see through walls! icon_razz.gif

 

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Iron Chef

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That's the way that it is now.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Scylla & Charybdis:

...Perhaps only logged on folks should be able to watch a cache/bug, and maybe only logged on folks should be able to log a note or find, and for sure only logged on folks should be able to create a cache...


 

I, personally, stick with my thoughts that users should be required to login to gain details about a cache. It wouldn't be the radical departure that some people are trying to make it out to be. It's not like the registration process is big, mean, and complicated. You don't even have to have a verified e-mail account right now to be able to do some things on the site. If people want to wear aluminum hats because they're scared about their privacy then they shouldn't go outside... the G-Men have eyes everywhere that can see through walls! icon_razz.gif

 

______________________

Iron Chef

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If folks havn't registered then they may not have agreed formally to play by the rules, so I think it's perfectly fair to insist folks login before giving them access to the exact coordinates of any caches. OTOH, the logs and general descriptions should mostly be available to all, though I guess a means of marking parts of a description (or log) as not-for-display-to-all might become necessary, for those caches where significant positional information is given...

 

Purrs... LazyLeopard http://www.lazyleopard.org.uk

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I am opposed unless there is a provision for people to sign in as "guest" or something like that. I know that it is not that difficult to sign up for an account but it is enough that some people are going to be turned off. There are many legitimate reasons for persons who are not geocaches to want to view this information. I recently had a discussion with a state forest ranger who was concerned that geocaches might be used as a transfer point for illegal drugs. That's pretty ridiculous but it serves as a warning that the authorities may become suspicious of geocaching if they cannot see what it is that we are up to. Should a park ranger be able to view information about a cache that is hidden in his park? I say that he should be. I also think that he should be able to do it without having to sign up for an account.

 

Johnny

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