National Trust Clumber Park, volunteers required to help geocache set up.

June 15, 2011

Hi

We are looking at setting up several geocache boxes very shortly and ideally would like some volunteers from the geocache community to help to set it up and keep things up and running. We have been given some items from Garmin to assist us so we have the basics to get going with it.

We are probably looking at setting up 8 - 10 caches around Clumber Park and maybe temporary ones that last a month or so to tie into our events programme.

For those who unsure of where Clumber is, we are located in North Nottinghamshire, near Worksop and is a 3,800 acre former ducal estate once owned by the Dukes of Newcastle, and is now managed by the National Trust.

If you are interested or want to know further info PM me.

Thanks

Gareth

Ranger

Clumber Park

Clumber Park Webpage

3k · June 15, 2011

We are probably looking at setting up 8 - 10 caches around Clumber Park and maybe temporary ones that last a month or so to tie into our events programme.

Unfortunately I'm a little too far away to help.

However, if you intend to list the caches here (geocaching.com) you need to be aware that there is a permanence guideline, and caches should be intended to be in place for at least 3 months

Geocache Permanence: Geocaches are placed for the long term. Geocachers will expect your cache to remain in place for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) will not be published.

June 15, 2011

Pretty sure the reviewers will allow the NT to create temporary caches - after all, they've done us huge favours by allowing caches on their land, least they could do as a thank you.

June 15, 2011

Pretty sure the reviewers will allow the NT to create temporary caches - after all, they've done us huge favours by allowing caches on their land, least they could do as a thank you.

The guidelines apply to everyone who submits a cache for review. It wouldn't be right to show favouritism to one person or group over anyone else. All caches submitted are reviewed on their merits. Anyone who believes the guidelines as applied by a reviewer to their cache are not applied fairly or who think their particular cache is deserving of publication can of course appeal the decision of the reviewer to Groundspeak (who own geocaching.com).

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

June 15, 2011

As NT are currently tied in with Garmin who are supporting them maybe they will be listed on the Garmin Open Caching site?

6.1k · June 15, 2011

As NT are currently tied in with Garmin who are supporting them maybe they will be listed on the Garmin Open Caching site?

Looks like you're right. If you go to the NT activity page on Geocaching it only links to Opencaching.com, not Geocaching.com; but then the caches at (for example) Tyntesfield are only listed on Geocaching.com and not listed on Opencaching.com; although Wicken Fenn seems to have it's caches listed on both.

A great example of Joined-up thinking I don't think

June 15, 2011

PM sent

June 15, 2011

Great to see the NT are letting official and independent caches be placed on their land, good for them and good for cachers.

I've volunteered straight away, as NT members we are happy to give our help and support.

3k · June 15, 2011

Great to see the NT are letting official and independent caches be placed on their land, good for them and good for cachers.

I've volunteered straight away, as NT members we are happy to give our help and support.

There's been an agreement in place with the NT for quite a while now - link to the NT agreement here - and to the full GAGB landowner agreements database here

Edited June 15, 2011 by keehotee

3.7k · June 15, 2011

PM also sent, as I live less than four miles away from Clumber Park (also an NT member).

June 19, 2011

Pretty sure the reviewers will allow the NT to create temporary caches - after all, they've done us huge favours by allowing caches on their land, least they could do as a thank you.

The guidelines apply to everyone who submits a cache for review. It wouldn't be right to show favouritism to one person or group over anyone else. All caches submitted are reviewed on their merits. Anyone who believes the guidelines as applied by a reviewer to their cache are not applied fairly or who think their particular cache is deserving of publication can of course appeal the decision of the reviewer to Groundspeak (who own geocaching.com).

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

Fair enough!

1.3k · June 19, 2011

Pretty sure these caches won't interest the reviewers as NT/Garmin marriage is to push opencaching.

1.1k · June 20, 2011

Pretty sure these caches won't interest the reviewers as NT/Garmin marriage is to push opencaching.

At least with GC.com there are reviewers, it is a peer reviewing system on the Garmin site, whilst the Clumber Park caches will be with the approval of the NT by going down the opencaching.com route, there is no reviewer to check if the placer of the cache has actually obtained permission from the NT for other caches place on NT land.

I guess this depends on the National Trust, do they want to potentially draw in the thousands of geocaching.com cachers or the vastly less numbers who only visit opencaching.com. There are a few NT caches near me, picking one at random it has been found 20 times or so on GC.com and once on the Garmin site, several others in the series have not been logged on the Garmin site but have a dozen or so logs each on geocaching.com.

I know the NT are tied up with Garmin but would much rather advertise their caches more widely so they sell more memberships, cream teas and icecreams. :blink:

1.6k · June 20, 2011

The National Trust Senior Management are encouraging staff at a local level to list NT owned caches on GC as well as the Other companies site, which is required as part of the Corporate Sponsorship by that company. I'll leave everyone to make their own assessment of what the large Billion Dollar Company is aiming to get out of the sponsorship deal. The NT on the other hand get free equipment for each of their locations. Which as they are a Charity, is a win situation as far as they are concerned.

Deci

1.3k · June 20, 2011

For sure it's a good move by the NT... As for Garmin, well... Lots of us have them without their website, so don't see the gain. Of course, their site may change if it takes off and make them some money!

June 20, 2011

I don't want my trackables ending up in a Opencaching only cache.

Surprised Garmin haven't specified that for sponsorship they want exclusive listing of caches on their own site, seems like a mistake to me.

June 20, 2011

I don't want my trackables ending up in a Opencaching only cache.

Surprised Garmin haven't specified that for sponsorship they want exclusive listing of caches on their own site, seems like a mistake to me.

I'd be surprised if Garmin requested exclusivity but on reading the following link I think they are certainly down as first preference:

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-chl/w-countryside_environment/w-activities/w-activities-geocaching.htm

June 20, 2011

Well given that there is no mention of gc.com in that link looks like they are the only preference

1k · June 20, 2011

I don't want my trackables ending up in a Opencaching only cache.

Surprised Garmin haven't specified that for sponsorship they want exclusive listing of caches on their own site, seems like a mistake to me.

garmin wins by sale of units no matter what site they use

1.3k · June 20, 2011

Well given that there is no mention of gc.com in that link looks like they are the only preference

Interesting that they come here for help though!

1.4k · June 20, 2011

Don't you have to pay to get into NT property, and wouldn't this go against the terms of use for geocaching.com?

Last I checked, it was about £4.80 to park at Clumber Park. (So the free admission only applies if you don't drive there.)

Edited June 20, 2011 by Fianccetto

6.1k · June 20, 2011

Don't you have to pay to get into NT property,

Not necessarily, there's often extended park land which has free access, and other parts such as the house and gardens that charge for access.

Last I checked, it was about £4.80 to park at Clumber Park. (So the free admission only applies if you don't drive there.)

But the same could be said for any town centre caches where the car parking is usually chargeable.

3k · June 21, 2011

Don't you have to pay to get into NT property, and wouldn't this go against the terms of use for geocaching.com?

Last I checked, it was about £4.80 to park at Clumber Park. (So the free admission only applies if you don't drive there.)

There's no rule or guideline that says you should never have to pay to get to a cache!

There's even an attribute for "Access or parking Fee" :rolleyes:

A lot of people seem to confuse having to pay to get in with the "no commercial caches" guideline. Thankfully, they can be two completely separate things.....

Edited June 21, 2011 by keehotee

June 21, 2011

Don't you have to pay to get into NT property, and wouldn't this go against the terms of use for geocaching.com?

Last I checked, it was about £4.80 to park at Clumber Park. (So the free admission only applies if you don't drive there.)

There are plenty of examples where you have to pay to go caching - Kinder Scout being one unless you know where to park. The main parking areas are just about all P&D (£5 for the day at Edale)

8.6k · June 21, 2011

As I understand it, reasonable parking charges are OK because (in theory) you could always walk in to the place, or use public transport. If you have to pay e.g. £15 to access grounds/gardens/property then that's another matter.

MrsB

1.3k · June 21, 2011

Don't you have to pay to get into NT property, and wouldn't this go against the terms of use for geocaching.com?

Last I checked, it was about £4.80 to park at Clumber Park. (So the free admission only applies if you don't drive there.)

There are plenty of examples where you have to pay to go caching - Kinder Scout being one unless you know where to park. The main parking areas are just about all P&D (£5 for the day at Edale)

IIRC there are 2 pay car parks for Kinder, and those are the ones that you mentioned. I've taken maybe 20 or so routes up and so at 18 of them there is no P&D. The easiest way up has free parking, the tourist 2 don't... can't blame the council/NT on that one, may as well cash in as they have to maintain the paths. In Hayfield it's always stuck me as strange that anybody uses the car park as there's only one way to it and you pass all of the free parking just before you get to it... some people just love car parks I guess!

In general I avoid parking fees, especially when geocaching... but yes they are within the rules... what I have yet to come across personally is one where you HAVE to pay to get to... say like one in the ornamental gardens at Alton Towers... that would give me an issue.

Edited June 21, 2011 by NattyBooshka

1.1k · June 21, 2011

In general I avoid parking fees, especially when geocaching... but yes they are within the rules... what I have yet to come across personally is one where you HAVE to pay to get to... say like one in the ornamental gardens at Alton Towers... that would give me an issue.

Do you mean this one? Haunted Hollow, or is there another in there?

1.3k · June 21, 2011

In general I avoid parking fees, especially when geocaching... but yes they are within the rules... what I have yet to come across personally is one where you HAVE to pay to get to... say like one in the ornamental gardens at Alton Towers... that would give me an issue.

Do you mean this one? Haunted Hollow, or is there another in there?

No idea... didn't know there was one! Don't think the GPSr would leave the car to go on rollercoasters, so even if I was there I wouldn't be finding it!

1.4k · June 21, 2011

Thanks for all the replies, it's good to have that cleared up.

3.7k · July 2, 2011

An update is probably due.

After a most enjoyable and productive day in Clumber Park with the NT ranger and a few local "consultants", we have a plan for several caches. In fact quite a lot!

There are 3800 acres (about 6 square miles) of land within the country park, and that's quite a bit of room for geocaches...Europe's 2nd biggest country park in fact.

All will be listed on geocaching.com, and the first few (at least) on the Garmin site as well. So everyone wins. There's no admission charge to this park (situated in the north of Sherwood Forest, to the south of Worksop, Notts) but as mentioned above in the thread, non-NT members have to pay for car parking. Cycle hire is available as well as lots of visitor facilities.

The first caches from this project should be released in about a month's time, all being well. There will be a couple of GPS units available for park visitors who want to give geocaching a try. A small group of experienced geocachers helped with advice and suggestions today, but kudos to NT ranger Gareth for already having a good handle on the concept and being ready with potential hiding spots around the park.

1.1k · July 2, 2011

Thanks for the update HH, it sounds like we will be taking a trip over to Clumber in a couple of months or so.

October 24, 2011

Still waiting for these, any updates?

3.7k · October 24, 2011

The project is still going ahead AFAIK but the rangers have been reorganised and now there are fewer of them for more work, so I've not been pressing to get the job finished. I'll see if there's any news.

November 1, 2012

We are currently camping in clumber park and the nice wardens (Gareth as mentioned above) have told us that the new caches will be available to download from tonight pending moderator approval for an advertised geocaching day on the park tomorrow - anyone any ideas when?????? they did also say that the rangers would have the info on site tomorrow morning but as we are here we would like to try and grab our very first FTF

any updates greatly received as currently checking the site every hour or so to try and get planned and ready (we may be lucky and have something really close to the campsite which may warrant a night time excursion!!! )

thanks

VIP

November 1, 2012

It looks like the caches you were told about are up for peer review on Garmins caching site, they might not be being cross listed on geocaching.com.

November 2, 2012

been out for an early morning stroll and found the lime tree ave cache already - our first ftf yipee! not sure how to log it yet so will have t wait until officially published! :unsure:

November 2, 2012

been out for an early morning stroll and found the lime tree ave cache already - our first ftf yipee! not sure how to log it yet so will have t wait until officially published!

Have they put any goodies in it?

November 11, 2012

Just had a look on Garmin's opencaching, and they seem to be listed there...

http://www.opencaching.com/en/#find?&bbox=53.1932,-1.4496,53.4201,-0.798&

HTH

3.7k · November 11, 2012

Just had a look on Garmin's opencaching, and they seem to be listed there...

http://www.opencaching.com/en/#find?&bbox=53.1932,-1.4496,53.4201,-0.798&

HTH

Hmm...VERY brief descriptions, full of errors and typos. Not really the standard we were hoping for when we did the initial research; looks like a rushed job. I offered to write the descriptions, but I'd like to stress that I had nothing to do with the final versions! I was told that the caches were going to be listed on both Garmin and Groundspeak sites, but I guess things have changed since then.

November 11, 2012

Just had a look on Garmin's opencaching, and they seem to be listed there...

http://www.opencaching.com/en/#find?&bbox=53.1932,-1.4496,53.4201,-0.798&

HTH

Hmm...VERY brief descriptions, full of errors and typos. Not really the standard we were hoping for when we did the initial research; looks like a rushed job. I offered to write the descriptions, but I'd like to stress that I had nothing to do with the final versions! I was told that the caches were going to be listed on both Garmin and Groundspeak sites, but I guess things have changed since then.

We went to find them today and were quite disappointed. The container we found was HUGE, but the others had had the container stolen, and the logs and swaps were neatly placed on the ground. Of the 5 we attempted, the coordinates were out, the hints were poor, the containers were too big for the hides. We took the remnants back to the info desk, where the assistant called the rangers to give them our feedback and alert them to the problems. We suggested that the hints should be improved to help prevent damage to the local environment. Hopefully, our constructive feedback might help improve the caches.

It's a shame as the other NT caches we have found have been great and in lovely locations.

Edited November 11, 2012 by angellica

November 11, 2012

Sounds all a bit rubbish, was going to find them tomorrow, but not sure whether to bother now.

3.7k · November 12, 2012

Hopefully, our constructive feedback might help improve the caches.

I really think that they'd be best off removing all the caches and salvaging what's left. Then either start again with the original idea of getting experienced cachers to set them up, or simply forget the whole idea. The job was clearly done in a way that ignored all our advice.

November 12, 2012

One was found and the container must measure 10 inch by 8 inch(Mega Extra large sandwich box) and not very hidden, no wonder they are getting wrecked!

There has been some successful caches in Clumber for quite some time, so blame the inexperience of the people putting these new ones down.

Sounds like they didn't want advice from people who actually know how it all should work, all I can say typical. :huh:

These have been so so long in getting done and have turned out to be very disappointing. :mad:

Edited November 12, 2012 by The Stragglers

National Trust Clumber Park, volunteers required to help geocache set up.

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