Disappointed in Groundspeak

[+sbell111]

Proponents of the features don't consider feel they get some benefit from the feature and basically claim "if you don't like it, you can block it". I guess since those that want the feature only see the benefit to themselves and don't consider the fact that they're adding a burden (even if it's only 2 clicks....) to those that don't want to use the feature.

Not exactly. Proponents say it's a feature you don't have to use on GC.com if you don't want to (which you don't) or the app (which you wouldn't), and on FB then you could block it if someone you know is using it to "spam" you. There is no "burden" to the average GC user, just like there's no "burden" (not even a single click) to there being Twitter integration that I don't use.

 

Just wanted to make sure we had our stories straight.

 

I think you're missing the point. Note the bolded portion above. Forgetting about the feature that the OP is suggesting for a moment. Suppose "Post a picture of your cat" app is created that integrates with facebook, and a dozen of my friends on facebook think it's the coolest thing ever, and then I get a bunch of messages with pictures of cats in my feed. In order to avoid getting more pictures of cats I have to go to a page and specifically block that app from sending me content. Maybe it only takes a click or to but it's an action that I have to take to block content. And it's not just me. Based on the responses in this thread, the integration of FB with the geocaching app doesn't seem to be something that a vast majority of those participating in the thread want to see. Multiply the action necessary to block that app by the number of FB using geocachers that don't want to see every log from their geocaching friends and the burden starts to become significant. If GS doesn't create the feature the burden of using the functionality shifts to those that want to be able to share the find logs with facebook friends through some other means.

The 'burden' is not significant. You see a message from an app that you don't like, you get rid of it and all future ones with two clicks right there on that message. It's not a complicated process and doesn't require going to some other screen and changing settings.

 

Also, whether one person chooses to block the apps messages or tons of people do also doesn't make this 'burden' significant. It is still just two simple clicks right when you see the message.

[Mr.Yuck]

What's the harm in introducing people to the hobby?

 

Well, there's this...

 

And the guy (presumably a teacher) who took a class of middle schoolers to one of my caches the other day. I'll be keeping a close eye on that ammo box.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

I disagree. Those that enjoy those those games might not define the messages as spam but that doesn't give them the right to define what spam means for those that don't want to play those silly games.

It doen't give you the right to create some arbitrary definition, either. GeoGeeBee posted what most would call a pretty good published definition of spam and facebook messages simply didn't fit.

 

I wasn't creating an arbitrary definition. I was using a definition based on my personal interpretation of spam, and wasn't trying to impose my definition on others. Based on my experience using the Internet I see spam as a somewhat nebulous concept, and while GeoGeeBee's post offers a pretty good definition, I don't think it's quite so black-n-white. I've seen plenty of instances of the use of the term which seems to suggest a much looser definition. Frankly, I don't really care if someone wants to call certain types of facebook messages spam or not. That's just a semantic interpretation that doesn't really address issue that some people in this thread really don't want to receive some sort of notification every time someone on their FB friends list found a geocache, and would prefer that Groundspeak did not allocate resources implementing something that they'll have to take action on to block.

Edited June 17, 2011 by NYPaddleCacher

[+sbell111]

I signed up for Facebook to keep in touch with people, not to read:

Could you help Linda?

Linda needs a letter A gem to reveal the gem mosaic.

5 hours ago via Charmed Gems

Now that you've made teh two clicks necessary to block the 'Charmed Gem' messages, they can never bother you again. Still, those people who enjoy that game can still get them.

Edited June 17, 2011 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

I wasn't creating an arbitrary definition. I was using a definition based on my personal interpretation of spam, and wasn't trying to impose my definition on others.

Using personal definitions, rather than standard ones, does not lend itself to good communication.

Frankly, I don't really care if someone wants to call certain types of facebook messages spam or not. That's just a semantic interpretation that doesn't really address issue that some people in this thread really don't want to receive some sort of notification every time someone on their FB friends list found a geocache, and would prefer that Groundspeak did not allocate resources implementing something that they'll have to take action on to block.

As a number of people have been trying to explain to you, you wouldn't receive these messages every time one of your friends found a geocache. If you didn't want these messages, you would receive them exactly once. You would then make the two clicks necessary to block them just as you no doubt would to block Too Tall John's Charmed Gems app.

[+Panther&Pine]

I was just poking around FB (looking for that new facial recognition thingy, so I can opt out) and found under privacy settings a way to opt out of all apps/games and such (of course only time will show if it really works).

But towards the bottom of the page is apps and websites with a link to "edit your settings". On that page there is an "Apps you use" line item. And there you can turn off platform apps!

[+GeoGeeBee]

As a number of people have been trying to explain to you, you wouldn't receive these messages every time one of your friends found a geocache. If you didn't want these messages, you would receive them exactly once. You would then make the two clicks necessary to block them just as you no doubt would to block Too Tall John's Charmed Gems app.

 

I'm really not concerned about having to block the app myself.

 

I'm concerned about the impression the app will make on non-geocaching Facebook users. Some of them might eventually become interested in geocaching. But not if their first exposure to it is having to block it.

 

I don't want non-geocaching facebook users to equate Geocaching with Mafia Wars.

[+Too Tall John]

As a number of people have been trying to explain to you, you wouldn't receive these messages every time one of your friends found a geocache. If you didn't want these messages, you would receive them exactly once. You would then make the two clicks necessary to block them just as you no doubt would to block Too Tall John's Charmed Gems app.

I'm really not concerned about having to block the app myself.

 

I'm concerned about the impression the app will make on non-geocaching Facebook users. Some of them might eventually become interested in geocaching. But not if their first exposure to it is having to block it.

 

I don't want non-geocaching facebook users to equate Geocaching with Mafia Wars.

YES! YES!! YESSS!!!!!

 

This is the real problem. Hundreds of users sending dozens of notifications to hundreds of friends= lots of bad impressions to non-cachers. How many? I already did the math. (300 posters)*(25 caches)*(200 friends)=1.5 million bad impressions per day.

 

Many will block them, but only after they are already irritated.

 

If that's what Groundspeak wants to do, I guess we can't stop them, but I hope they fix Wherigo first. That actually has something to do with geocaching.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I wasn't creating an arbitrary definition. I was using a definition based on my personal interpretation of spam, and wasn't trying to impose my definition on others.

Using personal definitions, rather than standard ones, does not lend itself to good communication.

 

I'm not offended easily, but if someone said something to me that I thought was offensive, it really doesn't matter to me if they prefaced it with "no offense intended". Essentially, if the recipient of a message perceives that message as offensive, or characterizes it as spam, it doesn't matter if the sender calls "Extremely important information". As far as the recipient is concerned, it's still spam.

 

Frankly, I don't really care if someone wants to call certain types of facebook messages spam or not. That's just a semantic interpretation that doesn't really address issue that some people in this thread really don't want to receive some sort of notification every time someone on their FB friends list found a geocache, and would prefer that Groundspeak did not allocate resources implementing something that they'll have to take action on to block.

 

As a number of people have been trying to explain to you, you wouldn't receive these messages every time one of your friends found a geocache. If you didn't want these messages, you would receive them exactly once. You would then make the two clicks necessary to block them just as you no doubt would to block Too Tall John's Charmed Gems app.

 

"Two Clicks" would be an ideal scenario where the recipient only received one of those messages before they were able to get onto FB and block the application. Although I wouldn't consider the following a common scenario, but suppose GS release an opt-out FB application tomorrow morning. Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

 

I don't really care if did only take two clicks. It's two clicks (at a minium) for everyone that wants to block the app. Those two clicks add up. It's an opt-out application that forces those that don't want to participate to take an action that could be avoided by simply not creating the application.

[+Vater_Araignee]

If GS chooses to develop a tablet based version of the application it might actually make more sense to develop for Android based devices before working on an iPad version.

I don't follow why it makes sense to target 22% of the market vs. 75%. And remember, this is coming from a non-Apple fanboi.

It is called growth. Since the introduction of Android, Apple has been steadily losing market share.

Then you have the problem with the skewed numbers that Apple is putting out that companies are coming to understand. As of 2010 once you remove the IPod from from their numbers the market share actually shows Google gave 'em a big ol' B slap and took about 48% of the market.

 

More skewed numbers. According to Recellular (phone refurbishment and reselling, and occasional other e-products mostly mp3) 98% of the I's come in with cracked screens, of those 82% are less than 3 months old, most customers that break more than one in a year swear they will never get another. People that bring in the I's looking for credit almost never spend it on another apple product and when they do it is on an Ipod.

Out of all the "smart" users I know 19 have had Apple products and only 1 likes it, and she only makes calls and plays Farm ville and the rest have or are switching to Android versions.

 

Apple doesn't consider the ease of breaking the screens a problem, they call it a feature. It prevents butt dialing.

It appears that not only is marketing doing a good job of promoting Android but Apples anti marketing is doing a good job of giving away share.

Sometimes stronger hardware wins out over what the cool kids are playing with. It just takes time.

[+BuckeyeClan]

As a number of people have been trying to explain to you, you wouldn't receive these messages every time one of your friends found a geocache. If you didn't want these messages, you would receive them exactly once. You would then make the two clicks necessary to block them just as you no doubt would to block Too Tall John's Charmed Gems app.

I'm really not concerned about having to block the app myself.

 

I'm concerned about the impression the app will make on non-geocaching Facebook users. Some of them might eventually become interested in geocaching. But not if their first exposure to it is having to block it.

 

I don't want non-geocaching facebook users to equate Geocaching with Mafia Wars.

YES! YES!! YESSS!!!!!

 

This is the real problem. Hundreds of users sending dozens of notifications to hundreds of friends= lots of bad impressions to non-cachers. How many? I already did the math. (300 posters)*(25 caches)*(200 friends)=1.5 million bad impressions per day.

 

Many will block them, but only after they are already irritated.

 

If that's what Groundspeak wants to do, I guess we can't stop them, but I hope they fix Wherigo first. That actually has something to do with geocaching.

 

Maybe we disagree on the potential impact of this because we react differently to these apps. See, I don't get the least bit annoyed by Farmville, Mafia Wars, or any other game that pops up. As soon as a new game appears in my newsfeed, I hide it. I hardly even notice what it's called, or who it is playing it. It barely registers on my annoyance-o-meter. Now what DOES annoy me is all the junk that I CAN'T hide--the survey questions, the song challenges, the checking-ins that are either done manually, or are built in to facebook and so can't be hidden. If cachers are really intent on posting their logs, I would rather they do it via an app that others can easily hide than do it manually, or via twitter.

 

And I'm not sure why everybody assumes the worst--no doubt there will be a few people who post each and every log and annoy their friends, but there may also be quite a few that post intelligently, and so give a positive impression of geocaching. In my own personal experience with facebook, things seem to run in waves. A new feature, app, or game generates a lot of activity right at first, but then people get bored with it, or realize how annoying it is, and then it fades. I just don't see millions of facebook users becoming anti-geocaching because a few people post annoying logs. I just don't.

[+vincenzosi]

Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

 

You do, of course, realize that you wouldn't be able to block it because you can't see FB at all, thus alleviating the need to block it until you can actually see FB, right?

 

It's akin to arguing your neighbor is blasting his music and it's annoying you while you're at work 10 miles away.

Edited June 17, 2011 by vincenzosi

[+BuckeyeClan]

I wasn't creating an arbitrary definition. I was using a definition based on my personal interpretation of spam, and wasn't trying to impose my definition on others.

Using personal definitions, rather than standard ones, does not lend itself to good communication.

 

I'm not offended easily, but if someone said something to me that I thought was offensive, it really doesn't matter to me if they prefaced it with "no offense intended". Essentially, if the recipient of a message perceives that message as offensive, or characterizes it as spam, it doesn't matter if the sender calls "Extremely important information". As far as the recipient is concerned, it's still spam.

 

Frankly, I don't really care if someone wants to call certain types of facebook messages spam or not. That's just a semantic interpretation that doesn't really address issue that some people in this thread really don't want to receive some sort of notification every time someone on their FB friends list found a geocache, and would prefer that Groundspeak did not allocate resources implementing something that they'll have to take action on to block.

 

As a number of people have been trying to explain to you, you wouldn't receive these messages every time one of your friends found a geocache. If you didn't want these messages, you would receive them exactly once. You would then make the two clicks necessary to block them just as you no doubt would to block Too Tall John's Charmed Gems app.

 

"Two Clicks" would be an ideal scenario where the recipient only received one of those messages before they were able to get onto FB and block the application. Although I wouldn't consider the following a common scenario, but suppose GS release an opt-out FB application tomorrow morning. Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

 

I don't really care if did only take two clicks. It's two clicks (at a minium) for everyone that wants to block the app. Those two clicks add up. It's an opt-out application that forces those that don't want to participate to take an action that could be avoided by simply not creating the application.

 

Ah-hah! I get your concern now. You honestly don't understand how hiding stuff in facebook works. You don't have to hide each and every posting--you only have to hide the app *once*, and every single posting by that app gets hidden immediately. In your case, all you have to do is go to the first posting you find, click the little "x" beside the message, and click the option "hide all by geocaching app". Poof! They all disappear, never to be seen again.

 

Again, I say, that's just the way facebook works! Anybody who uses facebook knows that, and accepts that. Anybody who gets upset by boring/annoying posts probably shouldn't be on facebook. If the bad outweighs the good, don't use facebook at all. I'm fortunate that I have enough funny/interesting friends to outweigh the annoying/boring ones. If that ever changes, I'll just stop using it.

[+BuckeyeClan]

And why are assuming that *everybody* is going to want to block the app? I mean, that's a worst-case scenario. I doubt I'd use the app to post my logs, but I have a few geocaching friends that I would probably enjoy reading some of their adventures, if they chose to post them. I enjoy reading their other posts, I would assume that they would use good judgement in what logs they would post.

[+IndyJones1023]

Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

 

You do, of course, realize that you wouldn't be able to block it because you can't see FB at all, thus alleviating the need to block it until you can actually see FB, right?

 

It's akin to arguing your neighbor is blasting his music and it's annoying you while you're at work 10 miles away.

LOL, too true.

 

One thing this thread has proven is that everyone uses FB and geocaching in different ways. Kinda makes a logical person think that progress shouldn't be stifled.

[+Too Tall John]

Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

You do, of course, realize that you wouldn't be able to block it because you can't see FB at all, thus alleviating the need to block it until you can actually see FB, right?

 

It's akin to arguing your neighbor is blasting his music and it's annoying you while you're at work 10 miles away.

No, it's more like, while you're at work your neighbor starts putting a pink flamingo on your lawn every ten minutes. Once you get back home, he may have stopped, but you still got a mess to clean up. Your neighbor shrugs their shoulders and says "But you could have blocked the app..."

I don't really care if did only take two clicks. It's two clicks (at a minium) for everyone that wants to block the app. Those two clicks add up. It's an opt-out application that forces those that don't want to participate to take an action that could be avoided by simply not creating the application.

Ah-hah! I get your concern now. You honestly don't understand how hiding stuff in facebook works. You don't have to hide each and every posting--you only have to hide the app *once*, and every single posting by that app gets hidden immediately. In your case, all you have to do is go to the first posting you find, click the little "x" beside the message, and click the option "hide all by geocaching app". Poof! They all disappear, never to be seen again.

 

Again, I say, that's just the way facebook works! Anybody who uses facebook knows that, and accepts that. Anybody who gets upset by boring/annoying posts probably shouldn't be on facebook. If the bad outweighs the good, don't use facebook at all. I'm fortunate that I have enough funny/interesting friends to outweigh the annoying/boring ones. If that ever changes, I'll just stop using it.

Before you believe that people are ignorant on a subject, perhaps you should make sure you are understanding what they are saying. Just because one individual doesn't have to block dozens of posts doesn't mean that dozens of posters don't need to block one app. NYPC is talking about the 2nd scenario. Oh, and see how I juxtaposed one user/dozens of posts vs dozens of users/one app? I used dozens for aesthetics. It'd be closer to 100's of users, assuming we're still talking about one person using the app. If we want to go back to hundreds of users telling hundreds of friends, you're already getting into the thousands.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

 

You do, of course, realize that you wouldn't be able to block it because you can't see FB at all, thus alleviating the need to block it until you can actually see FB, right?

 

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

 

Although I have a spam filter on my two primary email accounts a lot of junk still gets through. With my iPhone linked to both accounts I'm able to stay on top of it and delete the junk that still makes it's way into my inboxes. Of course, it only takes one click to delete an unwanted email message, right? Well, According to Ferris Research, "in 2009 worldwide spam costs hit a staggering $130 billion of which $42 billion was in the US alone."

 

It may only take one or two clicks to block unwanted messages, but the time it takes to block something that is avoidable in the first place adds up.

 

Although somewhat unrelated I thought the following bit of news was interesting. As many probably are aware Google frequently changes their logo on their search engine page and occasionally creates an animated image and even interactive applications (called Doodles) that people can play with. Last week they had a playable guitar doodle which celebrated the birthday of guitar pioneer, Les Paul (who died in 2009). It was estimated that google users spent an additional 26 seconds than average, and resulted in a worldwide loss of productivity in the neighborhood of $260 million. And that was an opt-in activity.

[+IndyJones1023]

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

Wait, so you're saying you go back and read everything?

[+Too Tall John]

LOL, too true.

 

One thing this thread has proven is that everyone uses FB and geocaching in different ways. Kinda makes a logical person think that progress shouldn't be stifled.

A logical person would put Groundspeak's resources on enhancements that will benefit the caching experience, not the Facebook experience.

 

Oh, in case you missed it, I poked holes in the man with the pink mask's analogy. Heck, I didn't need to poke holes, it was a sieve to begin with.

 

Riddle me this? If you see no problem with making your friends who don't want to read every cache you find click away to block the app, why do you have a problem with having to manually share? You said because it was inconvenient for you.

 

Hmm... so as long as it's only inconveniencing other people...

I have a few geocaching friends that I would probably enjoy reading some of their adventures, if they chose to post them. I enjoy reading their other posts, I would assume that they would use good judgement in what logs they would post.

I bet they write real riveting stuff while out in the field:

This cache logged with the Geocaching App for iPhone.

They might go back and edit the log later, but the initial log is what will be shared on FB if this feature is based on a phone app. Edited June 17, 2011 by Too Tall John

[+Panther&Pine]

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

Wait, so you're saying you go back and read everything?

I do. How else would I know what my friends are up to?

[+IndyJones1023]

Riddle me this? If you see no problem with making your friends who don't want to read every cache you find click away to block the app, why do you have a problem with having to manually share?

How many of my friends have you checked with to determine which ones don't want to read about my caching? Because it sounds like you're implying no one would ever want to do that. Have any data to back that up?

[+IndyJones1023]

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

Wait, so you're saying you go back and read everything?

I do. How else would I know what my friends are up to?

So, you care about what your friends are up to unless they're geocaching?

[+Panther&Pine]

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

Wait, so you're saying you go back and read everything?

I do. How else would I know what my friends are up to?

So, you care about what your friends are up to unless they're geocaching?

None of my friends cache, three members of my family do.

[+vincenzosi]

It was estimated that google users spent an additional 26 seconds than average, and resulted in a worldwide loss of productivity in the neighborhood of $260 million. And that was an opt-in activity.

I estimate I spent about double that before I even realized you could use the keyboard to play it.

 

 

[+IndyJones1023]

None of my friends cache, three members of my family do.

So, if you had friends who cached you'd want to read about everything they do except caching?

[knowschad]

Speaking of being the only person in the world who wants to geocache on an iPad - don't you think it would open up geocaching to classrooms to be able to have a teacher use an iPad to show a class what's on the app screen? That would be cool.

Now you're opening a whole new can of worms. Do we really want school kids learning how to find our caches? Also, I would assume they arleady can project their monitors or have large screen monitors for their computers, so if they do want to teach geocaching (cringe!) they can do it with their computer. No iPad needed.

He actually didn't bring school kids into the thread. That was done early on by someone arguing against facebook integration.

The earlier reference to schools had nothing to do with teaching geocaching.

[+BuckeyeClan]

Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

 

You do, of course, realize that you wouldn't be able to block it because you can't see FB at all, thus alleviating the need to block it until you can actually see FB, right?

 

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

 

Although I have a spam filter on my two primary email accounts a lot of junk still gets through. With my iPhone linked to both accounts I'm able to stay on top of it and delete the junk that still makes it's way into my inboxes. Of course, it only takes one click to delete an unwanted email message, right? Well, According to Ferris Research, "in 2009 worldwide spam costs hit a staggering $130 billion of which $42 billion was in the US alone."

 

It may only take one or two clicks to block unwanted messages, but the time it takes to block something that is avoidable in the first place adds up.

 

 

This statement makes me think that you *don't* understand how blocking apps in facebook works. It's not like e-mail, where once it's in your inbox, it has to be manually removed. It's a live feed. If you block the app *once*, all posts by that app disappear, even ones that were sent prior to the app being blocked. So hide the app on the first message that you come to, even if it's the most recent one sent, and all the other messages will disappear--you won't see them at all as you scroll through all the posts from the last 2 weeks.

[+Too Tall John]

Riddle me this? If you see no problem with making your friends who don't want to read every cache you find click away to block the app, why do you have a problem with having to manually share?

How many of my friends have you checked with to determine which ones don't want to read about my caching? Because it sounds like you're implying no one would ever want to do that. Have any data to back that up?

See, you're missing the fact that you aren't the only one who'll be using this feature. Search the forums for smartphone and logging. You'll see tons of complaints about brief, if not completely empty, logs. Now, you'll have neophyte cachers, excited to share those blank logs with all their FB friends! Woo-hoo!

 

But, to answer your question directly, the only data I've collected as to whether your friends will want to read your logs is that I've read some of your logs. Exciting stuff, I'm telling you. Did you log those on your iPad?

 

I showed you mine. You show me yours. Where's your data that your friends want to read your logs?

 

Oh, and you never answered my initial question: If you see no problem with making your friends who don't want to read every cache you find click away to block the app, why do you have a problem with having to manually share?

[+Panther&Pine]

None of my friends cache, three members of my family do.

So, if you had friends who cached you'd want to read about everything they do except caching?

Probably. I don't mind the wall posts that say "Went out caching today. Got some good ones. I finally dropped that coin into a cache". I would mind getting a post that says "Found GCXXXX today" With a link to the log every time they logged a cache. Or even a message with their log contents.

[+vincenzosi]

Oh, and you never answered my initial question: If you see no problem with making your friends who don't want to read every cache you find click away to block the app, why do you have a problem with having to manually share?

In fairness, because you have Facebook in reverse.

 

The idea is share everything, block what you don't want, not block everything and share what you want.

 

That's why.

 

Like it or not, that's the FB model. If you're not comfortable with it, cool, but that's how FB is set up and how it works with no intervention. If you want to customize the experience to your liking, it requires intervention. It's not set up the other way.

 

 

[+BuckeyeClan]

No, it's more like, while you're at work your neighbor starts putting a pink flamingo on your lawn every ten minutes. Once you get back home, he may have stopped, but you still got a mess to clean up. Your neighbor shrugs their shoulders and says "But you could have blocked the app..."

 

That's not an accurate analogy, because you have to pick up every single flamingo. If you only have to pick up one flamingo, and all the rest magically disappear, that would be closer.

[+vincenzosi]

That's not an accurate analogy, because you have to pick up every single flamingo. If you only have to pick up one flamingo, and all the rest magically disappear, that would be closer.

And yet still wrong, because the neighbor would be, you know, trespassing.

 

It would be more akin to saying you give your neighbor permission to put anything he wants on your lawn and then bitching about how you hate that he keeps cluttering up your lawn.

 

 

[+BuckeyeClan]

 

In fairness, because you have Facebook in reverse.

 

The idea is share everything, block what you don't want, not block everything and share what you want.

 

That's why.

 

Like it or not, that's the FB model. If you're not comfortable with it, cool, but that's how FB is set up and how it works with no intervention. If you want to customize the experience to your liking, it requires intervention. It's not set up the other way.

 

This bears repeating.

[+IndyJones1023]

Riddle me this? If you see no problem with making your friends who don't want to read every cache you find click away to block the app, why do you have a problem with having to manually share?

How many of my friends have you checked with to determine which ones don't want to read about my caching? Because it sounds like you're implying no one would ever want to do that. Have any data to back that up?

See, you're missing the fact that you aren't the only one who'll be using this feature. Search the forums for smartphone and logging. You'll see tons of complaints about brief, if not completely empty, logs. Now, you'll have neophyte cachers, excited to share those blank logs with all their FB friends! Woo-hoo!

 

But, to answer your question directly, the only data I've collected as to whether your friends will want to read your logs is that I've read some of your logs. Exciting stuff, I'm telling you. Did you log those on your iPad?

 

I showed you mine. You show me yours. Where's your data that your friends want to read your logs?

 

Oh, and you never answered my initial question: If you see no problem with making your friends who don't want to read every cache you find click away to block the app, why do you have a problem with having to manually share?

To be honest, I never thought geocachers had to fill out logs like a novella. I was out caching and found it. What's the big deal?

 

I'll have to query my friends and see if they'd find it inflammatory to read about cache finds, so I'll circle back to that one.

 

I don't have a problem with manually sharing finds on Facebook. But as I said previously (in case you glossed over it or have forgotten), I stated that it would be nice to have the FB sharing feature in an app for convenience sake. Sure, it's easy enough to manually share at home in front of a computer with a mouse and keyboard. But out and about it's more difficult to do so on a device with cumbersome copy/paste mechanisms. I said this before, so hopefully it will sink in this time.

[+Too Tall John]

No, it's more like, while you're at work your neighbor starts putting a pink flamingo on your lawn every ten minutes. Once you get back home, he may have stopped, but you still got a mess to clean up. Your neighbor shrugs their shoulders and says "But you could have blocked the app..."

That's not an accurate analogy, because you have to pick up every single flamingo. If you only have to pick up one flamingo, and all the rest magically disappear, that would be closer.

And yet still wrong, because the neighbor would be, you know, trespassing.

 

It would be more akin to saying you give your neighbor permission to put anything he wants on your lawn and then bitching about how you hate that he keeps cluttering up your lawn.

Fine. It's like telling your neighbor to come over to chat anytime they have news but while you are at work, they come over and fill your lawn with magic flamingos, gnomes, and these things:

Your neighbor reasons that it's ok, because they're magic: as soon as you pluck one flamingo, they all disappear, and so on. You still arrive home to a yard full of stuff, enough that they're actually making it hard to get to your front stoop to see the note your other neighbor left on the door.

 

I'm sure I left out some aspect of the analogy, but still, it's better than the "music blasting" one because it still is something you actually have to deal with, while the radio isn't.

[+vincenzosi]

 

Not to derail your point, which I understand better (although I still disagree with it), but those are hucking fysterical!!!!

 

[+BuckeyeClan]

No, it's more like, while you're at work your neighbor starts putting a pink flamingo on your lawn every ten minutes. Once you get back home, he may have stopped, but you still got a mess to clean up. Your neighbor shrugs their shoulders and says "But you could have blocked the app..."

That's not an accurate analogy, because you have to pick up every single flamingo. If you only have to pick up one flamingo, and all the rest magically disappear, that would be closer.

And yet still wrong, because the neighbor would be, you know, trespassing.

 

It would be more akin to saying you give your neighbor permission to put anything he wants on your lawn and then bitching about how you hate that he keeps cluttering up your lawn.

Fine. It's like telling your neighbor to come over to chat anytime they have news but while you are at work, they come over and fill your lawn with magic flamingos, gnomes, and these things:

Your neighbor reasons that it's ok, because they're magic: as soon as you pluck one flamingo, they all disappear, and so on. You still arrive home to a yard full of stuff, enough that they're actually making it hard to get to your front stoop to see the note your other neighbor left on the door.

 

I'm sure I left out some aspect of the analogy, but still, it's better than the "music blasting" one because it still is something you actually have to deal with, while the radio isn't.

 

You don't have to get to your front door first. Pluck out the first one by the curb and they all disappear. (Including the one you are holding in your hand.) And it won't ever happen again, because now you have a magic "gaudy-lawn-ornament-blocking forcefield" surrounding your house, that even works against your jokester brother-in-law who lives across town.

[+Too Tall John]

I don't have a problem with manually sharing finds on Facebook.

No way are you getting away with claiming this doesn't bother you. It's one of the two reasons you stated for not renewing your membership. So, if it doesn't bother you, what is this all about?

But as I said previously (in case you glossed over it or have forgotten), I stated that it would be nice to have the FB sharing feature in an app for convenience sake. Sure, it's easy enough to manually share at home in front of a computer with a mouse and keyboard. But out and about it's more difficult to do so on a device with cumbersome copy/paste mechanisms. I said this before, so hopefully it will sink in this time.

There's a difference between comprehending what someone says and agreeing with that same thing. I know exactly what you have stated, it doesn't have to sink in any further, it just happens that I disagree.

 

"Hopefully it will sink in this time" insinuates that someone isn't agreeing with you because they are dense. Since I, and others, have given what I believe to be fairly well thought out reasons to not have this feature, I have to conclude that either it is you who are dense or that you are trying to call our judgement into question by calling us dense. To claim the former and call you dense is against the guidelines, so I must assume that it is the latter. Do you care to bring your post into compliance with the guidelines?

 

Edit: Spewwing and gwammaw.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Too Tall John

[mresoteric]

Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

 

You do, of course, realize that you wouldn't be able to block it because you can't see FB at all, thus alleviating the need to block it until you can actually see FB, right?

 

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

 

Although I have a spam filter on my two primary email accounts a lot of junk still gets through. With my iPhone linked to both accounts I'm able to stay on top of it and delete the junk that still makes it's way into my inboxes. Of course, it only takes one click to delete an unwanted email message, right? Well, According to Ferris Research, "in 2009 worldwide spam costs hit a staggering $130 billion of which $42 billion was in the US alone."

 

It may only take one or two clicks to block unwanted messages, but the time it takes to block something that is avoidable in the first place adds up.

 

 

This statement makes me think that you *don't* understand how blocking apps in facebook works. It's not like e-mail, where once it's in your inbox, it has to be manually removed. It's a live feed. If you block the app *once*, all posts by that app disappear, even ones that were sent prior to the app being blocked. So hide the app on the first message that you come to, even if it's the most recent one sent, and all the other messages will disappear--you won't see them at all as you scroll through all the posts from the last 2 weeks.

 

Yes, blocking apps on Facebook is simple. Do it once and you don't have to see anymore of that app in your feed. It's not like you have to block each individual post.

[+vincenzosi]

Let's all agree to disagree. LOL

 

Honestly, I don't think there's anything more that could be said in this thread at this point.

[jholly]

Let's all agree to disagree. LOL

 

Honestly, I don't think there's anything more that could be said in this thread at this point.

Click Click

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

Wait, so you're saying you go back and read everything?

 

My FB friends list includes geocachers, people I went to high school with, many friends that I've made in real life over the past 40 years or so, family members, and business related contacts that I've made. Some of those people post messages that I actually *want* to read and I already have to sift through the messages to find things I might find interesting. Adding more clutter doesn't help.

[+Too Tall John]

Honestly, I don't think there's anything more that could be said in this thread at this point.

Any news on flask's cat?

[+vincenzosi]

]Any news on flask's cat?

I don't get it.

 

 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

 

You do, of course, realize that you wouldn't be able to block it because you can't see FB at all, thus alleviating the need to block it until you can actually see FB, right?

 

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

 

Although I have a spam filter on my two primary email accounts a lot of junk still gets through. With my iPhone linked to both accounts I'm able to stay on top of it and delete the junk that still makes it's way into my inboxes. Of course, it only takes one click to delete an unwanted email message, right? Well, According to Ferris Research, "in 2009 worldwide spam costs hit a staggering $130 billion of which $42 billion was in the US alone."

 

It may only take one or two clicks to block unwanted messages, but the time it takes to block something that is avoidable in the first place adds up.

 

 

This statement makes me think that you *don't* understand how blocking apps in facebook works. It's not like e-mail, where once it's in your inbox, it has to be manually removed. It's a live feed. If you block the app *once*, all posts by that app disappear, even ones that were sent prior to the app being blocked. So hide the app on the first message that you come to, even if it's the most recent one sent, and all the other messages will disappear--you won't see them at all as you scroll through all the posts from the last 2 weeks.

 

Yes, blocking apps on Facebook is simple. Do it once and you don't have to see anymore of that app in your feed. It's not like you have to block each individual post.

 

I guess I don't know exactly how FB application blocking works. I'm mostly a casual user of FB and I suspect I'm not alone. I just did a google search on "How to block Facebook apps" and the results indicate that I'm not the only person that isn't clear on it works.

[jholly]

]Any news on flask's cat?

I don't get it.

Flask is a long time forum poster. She has not been around lately. In times like this she liked to post stories about her cat.

Edited June 17, 2011 by jholly

[+BuckeyeClan]

]Any news on flask's cat?

I don't get it.

 

I think it's a long-standing insider joke. When a hotly-debated thread seems to be played out, discussing flask's cat tends to pop up. flask is a somewhat-well-known cacher, but I don't think she posts much here anymore.

[+Too Tall John]

]Any news on flask's cat?

I don't get it.

Flask is a long time forum poster. She has not been around lately. In times like this she liked to post stories about her cat.

I heard from flask somewhat recently. She had logged one of my caches, and I emailed her. The topic never got around to her cat.

 

I guess in retrospect, that's a good sign.

[knowschad]

Honestly, I don't think there's anything more that could be said in this thread at this point.

Any news on flask's cat?

 

Flask's neighbor's cats. No, haven't heard a thing for some time now.

[+BuckeyeClan]

Tomorrow morning I'm going be getting on airplane and won't have internet access while aboard. I'm going to be on that airplane for almost 14 hours. During that time I might have several FB geocaching friends find caches tomorrow and use the app. So, I could just block the app when I get off the plane and ignore the clutter of messages in the feed. Not in my case. At the end of that flight, I'll be in China. As you may or may not know, Facebook is blocked in China so unless I jump through some hoops and activate a VPN client I won't be able to block the application until I get back in the States in about a week. While this might seem like a unique situation, I suspect that most would not be in a position to block the app immediately after the first message was posted.

 

You do, of course, realize that you wouldn't be able to block it because you can't see FB at all, thus alleviating the need to block it until you can actually see FB, right?

 

Of course. On the other hand, the longer I stay away from FB the more cluttered my feed is going to get by the time I get back.

 

Although I have a spam filter on my two primary email accounts a lot of junk still gets through. With my iPhone linked to both accounts I'm able to stay on top of it and delete the junk that still makes it's way into my inboxes. Of course, it only takes one click to delete an unwanted email message, right? Well, According to Ferris Research, "in 2009 worldwide spam costs hit a staggering $130 billion of which $42 billion was in the US alone."

 

It may only take one or two clicks to block unwanted messages, but the time it takes to block something that is avoidable in the first place adds up.

 

 

This statement makes me think that you *don't* understand how blocking apps in facebook works. It's not like e-mail, where once it's in your inbox, it has to be manually removed. It's a live feed. If you block the app *once*, all posts by that app disappear, even ones that were sent prior to the app being blocked. So hide the app on the first message that you come to, even if it's the most recent one sent, and all the other messages will disappear--you won't see them at all as you scroll through all the posts from the last 2 weeks.

 

Yes, blocking apps on Facebook is simple. Do it once and you don't have to see anymore of that app in your feed. It's not like you have to block each individual post.

 

I guess I don't know exactly how FB application blocking works. I'm mostly a casual user of FB and I suspect I'm not alone. I just did a google search on "How to block Facebook apps" and the results indicate that I'm not the only person that isn't clear on it works.

 

Yes, facebook isn't the easiest to figure out. All the info is *there*, all the tools are *there*, but they aren't the easiest to find or figure out. And then they make changes and "improvements" without really announcing or explaining things--yes, I do have gripes about facebook. I'm not blindly devoted to facebook, but I do enjoy keeping in contact with friends that way, and I've figured out how to make it work *for me*. But those are facebook issues, not geocaching app issues. And that's the only reason I've stayed in this thread for so long--I don't think everybody who dislikes facebook really understands all the ins and outs of it. Obviously some do, and they have their opinions, and that's fine. I just hate to see misperceptions floating around as facts. If you have any thoughts or questions about facebook, there are a couple of threads about it in OT. I'm happy to share my thoughts and tips about it, as are plenty of other facebook users.