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Religious Proselytising in Caches


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I have just started geocaching, but I did check the forums to see if there was a topic on this. If there was, and I missed it, I apologize. In one of the caches I found, somebody had put in a pamphlet advertising their religion. Doesn't matter which religion it was. I found this mildly offensive and removed it, leaving a pin. (Pretty darn good trade up for the cache, IMHO). I don't think geocaching is the right place for this. How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing? What do you do about it? Thanks.

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We don't have control over what other people do. Lots of people leave things in caches I wouldn't leave. I ignore them unless they violate the rules, e.g., food, weapons, etc. and move on.

 

This topic has come up many times before. I'm sure some helpful forum regular will list the topics for your reading pleasure. Essentially, you will find that some people like them and some people don't. 'Tis the nature of the game/sport/hobby.

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I have just started geocaching, but I did check the forums to see if there was a topic on this. If there was, and I missed it, I apologize. In one of the caches I found, somebody had put in a pamphlet advertising their religion. Doesn't matter which religion it was. I found this mildly offensive and removed it, leaving a pin. (Pretty darn good trade up for the cache, IMHO). I don't think geocaching is the right place for this. How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing? What do you do about it? Thanks.

 

I think you'll find that most people feel the same way. And most people would do what you did - trade out the religious pamphlet. That's what I would do too.

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I am from the same part of the world as you, op, and I find this attitude most prevalent around here. Most people don't want any type of religion colouring anything else. If the pamphlet bothers you, just quietly CITO it, or, better, trade for it and toss it when you get home.

I have spent time living in other parts of our own continent where the attitudes are drastically different towards religion as they are in BC, and this has helped me gain a different perspective on the subject. When I find myself getting upset about religious content, I remind myself that the intentions of the person that placed it were not evil, in fact, they did it with love. I'll still ignore the religious message, but it helps me put it in perspective and not get upset.

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I have found pamphlets in caches before, non religious, but violent/drug related, and traded for them just to get them out of the cache. I didn't think about that, but I bet if I go to a local church I could get some material to better trade for the offensive stuff with LAUGHS !!!!

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I see it more as an embarrassment to mainstream Christians, much as all those "Judgement Day" billboards were. (Did anyone else notice, the only thing that mysteriously disappeared after the "rapture" were all the signs?)

 

That being said, there's a couple pieces of religious swag that I was happy to trade for. One was a Million Dollar Bill. On the back side, it asked the "Million Dollar Question: Will you go to heaven when you die?" For what it was, it was well done, I had to trade for it.

2573708392_7c68a1ac77.jpg

The other was a "Get Out of Hell Free" card. Turns out, if you read their website, the cards were produced because someone told the guy who makes them that they were going to hell. To quote the website:

Randy figured that if a self-appointed moralist could condemn people to hell with the snap of her mind, he certainly had the power to get them out again. Thus the Get Out of Hell Free (or "GOOHF") card was born.
card.gif
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I see it more as an embarrassment to mainstream Christians, much as all those "Judgement Day" billboards were. (Did anyone else notice, the only thing that mysteriously disappeared after the "rapture" were all the signs?)

 

That being said, there's a couple pieces of religious swag that I was happy to trade for. One was a Million Dollar Bill. On the back side, it asked the "Million Dollar Question: Will you go to heaven when you die?" For what it was, it was well done, I had to trade for it.

2573708392_7c68a1ac77.jpg

The other was a "Get Out of Hell Free" card. Turns out, if you read their website, the cards were produced because someone told the guy who makes them that they were going to hell. To quote the website:

Randy figured that if a self-appointed moralist could condemn people to hell with the snap of her mind, he certainly had the power to get them out again. Thus the Get Out of Hell Free (or "GOOHF") card was born.
card.gif

People put up rapture signs in your area!? Oh a jealous atheist I am....

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I treat religious pamphlets in the same way as any other advertising material -- IE, treat it as rubbish and bin it.

 

Only found one so far (but several advertisements...) but since the USA is a much more religious country you'll probably get more there.

 

Steve

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I see it more as an embarrassment to mainstream Christians, much as all those "Judgement Day" billboards were. (Did anyone else notice, the only thing that mysteriously disappeared after the "rapture" were all the signs?)

 

That being said, there's a couple pieces of religious swag that I was happy to trade for. One was a Million Dollar Bill. On the back side, it asked the "Million Dollar Question: Will you go to heaven when you die?" For what it was, it was well done, I had to trade for it.

2573708392_7c68a1ac77.jpg

The other was a "Get Out of Hell Free" card. Turns out, if you read their website, the cards were produced because someone told the guy who makes them that they were going to hell. To quote the website:

Randy figured that if a self-appointed moralist could condemn people to hell with the snap of her mind, he certainly had the power to get them out again. Thus the Get Out of Hell Free (or "GOOHF") card was born.
card.gif

People put up rapture signs in your area!? Oh a jealous atheist I am....

 

Being Canadian I don't recall ever seeing religious billboards (at least not in the provinces I've been to). Although we get the occasional Mennonite farm signs about salvation. I was surprised to see big commercial billboards with messages about God the last time we visited Tucson.

 

That's some funny and creative religious swag, TTJ, I would definitely trade for it - no trash bin for those items, they're keepers.

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I have just started geocaching, but I did check the forums to see if there was a topic on this. If there was, and I missed it, I apologize. In one of the caches I found, somebody had put in a pamphlet advertising their religion. Doesn't matter which religion it was. I found this mildly offensive and removed it, leaving a pin. (Pretty darn good trade up for the cache, IMHO). I don't think geocaching is the right place for this. How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing? What do you do about it? Thanks.

 

I have removed religious phamplets from my own caches on maintenance visits a couple of times. I would never, in a million years, take it upon myself to remove one from someone else's cache. That's just how I roll, though. :)

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I see it more as an embarrassment to mainstream Christians, much as all those "Judgement Day" billboards were. (Did anyone else notice, the only thing that mysteriously disappeared after the "rapture" were all the signs?)

 

That being said, there's a couple pieces of religious swag that I was happy to trade for. One was a Million Dollar Bill. On the back side, it asked the "Million Dollar Question: Will you go to heaven when you die?" For what it was, it was well done, I had to trade for it.

2573708392_7c68a1ac77.jpg

The other was a "Get Out of Hell Free" card. Turns out, if you read their website, the cards were produced because someone told the guy who makes them that they were going to hell. To quote the website:

Randy figured that if a self-appointed moralist could condemn people to hell with the snap of her mind, he certainly had the power to get them out again. Thus the Get Out of Hell Free (or "GOOHF") card was born.
card.gif

People put up rapture signs in your area!? Oh a jealous atheist I am....

 

Being Canadian I don't recall ever seeing religious billboards (at least not in the provinces I've been to). Although we get the occasional Mennonite farm signs about salvation. I was surprised to see big commercial billboards with messages about God the last time we visited Tucson.

 

That's some funny and creative religious swag, TTJ, I would definitely trade for it - no trash bin for those items, they're keepers.

yeah, no religious ads here in Vic BC either. Got kinda used to it when I was in Phoenix.

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Being in the southern US, I not only see a lot of religious "advertising" and swag in caches, but have already run across several caches with religious themes -- hidden at churches, telling you to feel free to join them on Sunday after you find the cache. I just sign the log, ignore the message and move on....

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I don't really care. It is just part of the usual trash and debris one finds in a cache. Now if the logbook is wet and the pamphlet is dry I use that as a logbook. What really chaps me is the 75-100 real estate agent business cards in some caches. You know with that many cards in a small t here is no room for anything.

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How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing?

I feel that if the most "offensive" thing I found in a cache was a religious pamphlet I'd be pretty happy. And I have only found 56 caches.

I am a Christian, but if I found a pamphlet for muslimism/judaism/hinduism etc... I would hardly be "offended". I don't know what it is about religion, but the only people that seem to get mad about it are some (READ: SOME) agnostics/atheists. As much as I would love for it to happen, I don't care whether or not you are my religion. But for some reason you seem to care that I am. [/rant]

Back to what I was originally saying... I have found a plastic... err... phallus in a cache. I went ahead and took that out.

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How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing?

I feel that if the most "offensive" thing I found in a cache was a religious pamphlet I'd be pretty happy. And I have only found 56 caches.

I am a Christian, but if I found a pamphlet for muslimism/judaism/hinduism etc... I would hardly be "offended". I don't know what it is about religion, but the only people that seem to get mad about it are some (READ: SOME) agnostics/atheists. As much as I would love for it to happen, I don't care whether or not you are my religion. But for some reason you seem to care that I am. [/rant]

Back to what I was originally saying... I have found a plastic... err... phallus in a cache. I went ahead and took that out.

My goodness... that's more rude then when I found a sticker of a half naked woman that I traded for. I'd love to explain that to my four year old, as she rifles through the trading items.

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Well I have not come across any religious pamphlets or political pamphlets or business cards in caches yet. Here where I am i get the pleasure of finding and having to remove more interesting things like condoms, cigarettes, lighters and so on but I do believe that if I came across something like any of those pamphlets I would remove it. I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and should live with what makes them happy but I also strongly believe that you should not push them at other people. I think it is very rude.

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We always trash them rather than trade for them... that said, we always leave a little party favor in caches too, so I dont know what that means... :D

How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing?

I feel that if the most "offensive" thing I found in a cache was a religious pamphlet I'd be pretty happy. And I have only found 56 caches.

I am a Christian, but if I found a pamphlet for muslimism/judaism/hinduism etc... I would hardly be "offended". I don't know what it is about religion, but the only people that seem to get mad about it are some (READ: SOME) agnostics/atheists. As much as I would love for it to happen, I don't care whether or not you are my religion. But for some reason you seem to care that I am. [/rant]

Back to what I was originally saying... I have found a plastic... err... phallus in a cache. I went ahead and took that out.

:yikes: Don't watch the news much eh? :laughing:

Lets be realistic here, atheists and agnostics are one of the smallest minorities in America. I hardly doubt they spend a lot of time worried about what YOUR religion is. Saying SOME atheists feel a certain way is a about as much of a cop-out as saying, "I dont know what it is about cachers, but some (READ: SOME) sure like hiding packages that look like bombs."

 

It sorta' lets you both deride someone and hide behind non-committal language at once. You know?

 

I can assure, you people of all different faiths, creeds and cultures get offended by differing religious beliefs. There is a lot of power, money and hate out there to prove it.

Edited by d+n.s
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I found this mildly offensive and removed it, leaving a pin. What do you do about it?

I think I've learned that my tolerance level is higher than some of my peers. :lol:

Seriously though, as an ordained minister of The Church of Dudeism, and a follower of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, (all hail his illustrious noodleness!), if someone prints their opinion regarding Life, The Universe and Everything on a pamphlet, dropping it in a cache, I generally won't find it offensive. I certainly wouldn't assume that someone's spiritual belief was "trash". There is a line in the sand though, where my tolerance level drops considerably. I've seen a few tracts over the years that really had what I considered to be hate speech in them. They were printed by an extremist, who would extract bits and pieces of scripture to "prove" anyone who didn't agree with him was going to Hell. If I found one of those in a cache, I would probably trade it out.

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I found this mildly offensive and removed it, leaving a pin. What do you do about it?

I certainly wouldn't assume that someone's spiritual belief was "trash".

This is actually a really good point. I really like that idea even if it doesn't sway me from thinking leaving stuff like that is rude/presumptuous at best.

 

Most of the ones (all?) I see at least imply I'm going to something called "hell" if I don't get on board, which is at least rude in my book :)

 

A very religious friend once told me, "If you can effectively explain your faith to a complete stranger on a scrap of paper, you probably don't have much to spare."

I've always like that. Seems like it applies to leaving little tracts in caches for families other faiths to find, and potentially have to explain rather than have fun in the woods.

 

But yeah, treating other people's faith like trash.. I really like that. Makes me think. (Not being sarcastic. I know it reads that way)

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"If you can effectively explain your faith to a complete stranger on a scrap of paper, you probably don't have much to spare."

I dunno. I think my own personal beliefs could be squeezed into a pretty small space.

The basic tenet: "I am right. You are right too!"

(Just to poke at the folks who opine "I'm right. You're wrong, and going to Hell") :lol:

Secondary gospel: "The only true sin is unnecessarily harming another soul. Every other 'sin' is invented nonsense."

 

Back on topic: Maybe I should print some tracts? :ph34r:

Maybe include some kind of disclaimer?

"Note: Seeing a scrap of paper in a cache does not mean it has been 'forced' or 'pushed' on you. Read it, or don't, as you please. But know the responsibility for that choice lies on your shoulders, not mine." :lol:

Edited by Clan Riffster
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We always trash them rather than trade for them... that said, we always leave a little party favor in caches too, so I dont know what that means... :D

How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing?

I feel that if the most "offensive" thing I found in a cache was a religious pamphlet I'd be pretty happy. And I have only found 56 caches.

I am a Christian, but if I found a pamphlet for muslimism/judaism/hinduism etc... I would hardly be "offended". I don't know what it is about religion, but the only people that seem to get mad about it are some (READ: SOME) agnostics/atheists. As much as I would love for it to happen, I don't care whether or not you are my religion. But for some reason you seem to care that I am. [/rant]

Back to what I was originally saying... I have found a plastic... err... phallus in a cache. I went ahead and took that out.

:yikes: Don't watch the news much eh? :laughing:

Lets be realistic here, atheists and agnostics are one of the smallest minorities in America. I hardly doubt they spend a lot of time worried about what YOUR religion is. Saying SOME atheists feel a certain way is a about as much of a cop-out as saying, "I dont know what it is about cachers, but some (READ: SOME) sure like hiding packages that look like bombs."

 

It sorta' lets you both deride someone and hide behind non-committal language at once. You know?

 

I can assure, you people of all different faiths, creeds and cultures get offended by differing religious beliefs. There is a lot of power, money and hate out there to prove it.

True, true. I guess I didn't word what I was trying to say very well. It certainly sounds the way you are describing it!

This is what I mean to say: I don't know of any people of faith (whatever it may be) that would be "offended" by a differing faith's pamphlet. (Unless it outrightly says "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL", in which case it still isn't "trash" or "hate speech", but unhelpful words from misguided people.) At least in my experience, it has only been agnostics/atheists that ever get their panties in a bunch over religious proselytizing. (To use your example, there are very few, if any, people who are not cachers hiding things that look like bombs but aren't bombs in parks. Therefore, you can't blame all cachers, but you can only blame cachers. Does that make sense?) I still don't think this is coming out exactly as it seems in my head, but you should be able to get the right idea.

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We always trash them rather than trade for them... that said, we always leave a little party favor in caches too, so I dont know what that means... :D

How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing?

I feel that if the most "offensive" thing I found in a cache was a religious pamphlet I'd be pretty happy. And I have only found 56 caches.

I am a Christian, but if I found a pamphlet for muslimism/judaism/hinduism etc... I would hardly be "offended". I don't know what it is about religion, but the only people that seem to get mad about it are some (READ: SOME) agnostics/atheists. As much as I would love for it to happen, I don't care whether or not you are my religion. But for some reason you seem to care that I am. [/rant]

Back to what I was originally saying... I have found a plastic... err... phallus in a cache. I went ahead and took that out.

:yikes: Don't watch the news much eh? :laughing:

Lets be realistic here, atheists and agnostics are one of the smallest minorities in America. I hardly doubt they spend a lot of time worried about what YOUR religion is. Saying SOME atheists feel a certain way is a about as much of a cop-out as saying, "I dont know what it is about cachers, but some (READ: SOME) sure like hiding packages that look like bombs."

 

It sorta' lets you both deride someone and hide behind non-committal language at once. You know?

 

I can assure, you people of all different faiths, creeds and cultures get offended by differing religious beliefs. There is a lot of power, money and hate out there to prove it.

True, true. I guess I didn't word what I was trying to say very well. It certainly sounds the way you are describing it!

This is what I mean to say: I don't know of any people of faith (whatever it may be) that would be "offended" by a differing faith's pamphlet. (Unless it outrightly says "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL", in which case it still isn't "trash" or "hate speech", but unhelpful words from misguided people.) At least in my experience, it has only been agnostics/atheists that ever get their panties in a bunch over religious proselytizing. (To use your example, there are very few, if any, people who are not cachers hiding things that look like bombs but aren't bombs in parks. Therefore, you can't blame all cachers, but you can only blame cachers. Does that make sense?) I still don't think this is coming out exactly as it seems in my head, but you should be able to get the right idea.

In my personal experience, its been pretty even. I work with a lot of Muslims who get pretty annoyed by it for example. I happen to know (simply by living in Texas) that a lot of Christians are offended by someone perhaps proselytizing about differences in faith in regard to specific issues. Gay marriage or the death penalty pamphlets for example, can make Christians enraged at other Christians!

Certainly, if I went to downtown Waco or maybe Arlington with a sign that said, "Religion is an ancient tool to control the masses" I would get more garbage thrown at me than if the sign had said, "Repent or burn forever"

Don't people even slander our president by implying he's secretly muslim? How is that even an insult? :laughing:

 

Buddhists seem pretty chill though :laughing:

 

So, I'll have to respectfully disagree. I think us agnostics/atheists tend to be annoyed as much as the next guy. There may be a higher percentage who are politically active, just do to the nature of being one of the most hated minorities in the country but I doubt our "panties" are so wadded that there will be a bunch of... you know... wars and genocides about this stuff. <_<

 

EDIT: We might be getting way OT, but feel free to send me a message if you want to really talk abut it. I enjoy discussing the subject :)

Edited by d+n.s
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How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing?

I feel that if the most "offensive" thing I found in a cache was a religious pamphlet I'd be pretty happy. And I have only found 56 caches.

I am a Christian, but if I found a pamphlet for muslimism/judaism/hinduism etc... I would hardly be "offended". I don't know what it is about religion, but the only people that seem to get mad about it are some (READ: SOME) agnostics/atheists. As much as I would love for it to happen, I don't care whether or not you are my religion. But for some reason you seem to care that I am. [/rant]

Back to what I was originally saying... I have found a plastic... err... phallus in a cache. I went ahead and took that out.

 

What is it about atheists and agnostics? We are tired of being told we are wrong/immoral/evil/going to hell/etc. And we don't like religious political activists who try to inject their interpretations of the Bible into the laws of a country which was founded on the principle of religious liberty. That being said, I have no problem with Christians who go to church, feed the hungry/clothe the poor/care for the sick, and respect my beliefs.

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"Note: Seeing a scrap of paper in a cache does not mean it has been 'forced' or 'pushed' on you. Read it, or don't, as you please. But know the responsibility for that choice lies on your shoulders, not mine." :lol:

 

Couldn't agree with this more. I can not see how anyone is being pushed by religion when an invitation to a church or a religious verse is placed in a cache. I have seen several wooden nickels and coins in caches that include some scripture. Likewise, I see no problem with using the "jesus fish" or cross stamp on a log book (short of it taking up more space than a standard signature). As long as it wasn't blatant pornography or racism hate propoganda, I really see no point in doing a CITO.

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I find things like rusty bottle caps, business cards, food, medications, even a live bullet in geocaches. I really don't see what gets people in such a state over an item from someone promoting their faith (unless practicing their faith involves violating laws, i.e. human sacrifice.)

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I have just started geocaching, but I did check the forums to see if there was a topic on this. If there was, and I missed it, I apologize. In one of the caches I found, somebody had put in a pamphlet advertising their religion. Doesn't matter which religion it was. I found this mildly offensive and removed it, leaving a pin. (Pretty darn good trade up for the cache, IMHO). I don't think geocaching is the right place for this. How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing? What do you do about it? Thanks.

 

First of all, this has come extensively in the past and I can't believe you didn't find any of the long and drawn out threads. Secondly, while I acknowledge your right to be offended, the fact that you are offended and acted on it proves that you're just as apt to push your non-religion agenda than those that want to save you with their religion. Just trade it out and move on without creating a big stink.

 

BTW, what was on the pin? Did it have ANYTHING at all written on it or did it have any symbols? If so, I suspect that would be commercial in nature as well. :ph34r:

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I have just started geocaching, but I did check the forums to see if there was a topic on this. If there was, and I missed it, I apologize. In one of the caches I found, somebody had put in a pamphlet advertising their religion. Doesn't matter which religion it was. I found this mildly offensive and removed it, leaving a pin. (Pretty darn good trade up for the cache, IMHO). I don't think geocaching is the right place for this. How does the rest of the community feel about this sort of thing? What do you do about it? Thanks.

 

If you had done a search for "religious pamphlets" and restricted it to "this forum", you would have found a number of threads about this topic.

 

Pretty sure all of them end up as the same train wreck.

 

Religion and politics...whodathunkit that they are "hot button" topics on forums?

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Hey sniggle, get a life. I just can't believe anyone would even start a thread about something as insignificant as a piece of paper in a cache. You and the others that push your non-religion BS are much more offensive than any religious literature you might find in a cache. Get a hobby!!!

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If you are offended by religious pamphlets then you should just go live in a cave and avoid personal contact. Same goes for those who are offended by atheists. Get over it. Unless someone is chasing you with pitchforks and torches what does it matter. It is all just advertisement of a personal opinion. Nothing more. No one is twisting your arm. Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one and I don't want to hear or see yours.

 

The world would be a lot better place if everyone just minded their own business and worried only about things that directly affect them.

 

I am offended by commercials that tell me I just have to have something. You know what I do about it? I don't buy it, go there, think about it. Problem solved.

 

Do whatever you want with the stuff. Anything placed in a chache probably isn't going to change your beliefs and if it does, you are shallow to begin with.

 

Ug....what an awful rant. Dang people making me voice my opinions about stuff.

Edited by jhellwig
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Hey sniggle, get a life. I just can't believe anyone would even start a thread about something as insignificant as a piece of paper in a cache. You and the others that push your non-religion BS are much more offensive than any religious literature you might find in a cache. Get a hobby!!!

 

that's almost funny that you accuse sniggle of pushing his non-religion BS; I have never had anyone come to my door and get in my face telling me "YOU ARE NOT A SINNER", "YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HELL", or "KEEP YOUR MONEY, MY CHURCH DOESN'T WANT IT!" I have also never found anything in a cache that said, "believe whatever you want, we respect you for being you".

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Hey sniggle, get a life. I just can't believe anyone would even start a thread about something as insignificant as a piece of paper in a cache. You and the others that push your non-religion BS are much more offensive than any religious literature you might find in a cache. Get a hobby!!!

 

that's almost funny that you accuse sniggle of pushing his non-religion BS; I have never had anyone come to my door and get in my face telling me "YOU ARE NOT A SINNER", "YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HELL", or "KEEP YOUR MONEY, MY CHURCH DOESN'T WANT IT!" I have also never found anything in a cache that said, "believe whatever you want, we respect you for being you".

 

+1 (is there a social convention for doing more than just +1???)

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that's almost funny that you accuse sniggle of pushing his non-religion BS; I have never had anyone come to my door and get in my face telling me "YOU ARE NOT A SINNER", "YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HELL", or "KEEP YOUR MONEY, MY CHURCH DOESN'T WANT IT!" I have also never found anything in a cache that said, "believe whatever you want, we respect you for being you".

 

+1 (is there a social convention for doing more than just +1???)

 

You can do a +2, or a +1000 :)

+10000 btw. :D

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Hey sniggle, get a life. I just can't believe anyone would even start a thread about something as insignificant as a piece of paper in a cache. You and the others that push your non-religion BS are much more offensive than any religious literature you might find in a cache. Get a hobby!!!

 

i don't see anyone calling religion a BS, so what gives you the right to tell anyone that non-religion is BS?

 

besides he/she is free to start a thread about whatever the heck they want to, as long as its within the guidelines....so perhaps its you that should get a life

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