GPS for walking in Japan

[+goerdy]

Hi,

 

my girlfriend and i are going to fly to japan in about 8 weeks.

we want to wwoof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWOOF) and also go to Tokyo, Hiroshima, Kyoto and maybe Osaka.

 

Especialy for Tokyo we want to take a GPS with us.

The Roadsigns arent readable, my girlfirend speaks japanese but not so well to read everithing and understand it.

 

the gps shuld have a Card view, so we can see where we are. A Navigation point to point would be nice but isnt mandatory.

 

I have a Smartphone (Vodafone VPA Compact2 witf Win mobile 5) and a bluetooth sirfStar3 dongle.

 

Do you know a good solution for the smartphone to do what we need?

What device is doing what we want? I want the Garmin GPSMap 62s for geocaching and cycling for a long time, but atm my budget is very low because of the flight tickets.

 

it would be nice if you can help

 

sry for my bad english, i'm german

 

regards

Philipp

[+splashy]

A plain old (tourist) paper map will do wonders.

You might find cheap navigators in Japan.

Telephone is ok if you have 2-3 spare batteries, be aware reception in the city might be very bad.

 

Free GARMIN maps on

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/

Edited June 9, 2011 by splashy

[+ecanderson]

Especialy for Tokyo we want to take a GPS with us.

The Roadsigns arent readable, my girlfirend speaks japanese but not so well to read everithing and understand it.

You have a much larger problem than whether the 'roadsigns' are readable. You'll find that many streets have no names to begin with, and there are therefore no roadsigns with street names. Highways and some major roads are exceptions. Once you're down on the surface streets of Tokyo, it's an entirely different story. They have one of the most peculiar address systems I've ever had to contend with. Maps are equally problematic except for the fact that they do indicate (without names) almost all streets and the little alleyways, and buildings will often show the names of major businesses, hotels, etc., on them on the map. Problem is - those will most likely be in Japanese.

 

If I'm understanding your needs correctly, picking up tiles you will need like "JP-Tokyo" from the openstreetmaps site mentioned above will be your best choice. Those can be placed on your 62s or on a microSD card on your 62s. You will be unable to read the names (the maps are in Kanji for the most part), but if you use it to create waypoints with help from others, you will at least be able to navigate to locations and find your way home again.

 

Go to the openstreetmaps site and you will find that the city names are in both Kanji and what they call Romanji (English transliteration), so you can see which tiles you need.

 

You can select Asia/Japan to get the entire area quickly into view,

pan a little to center Japan on your screen

then click the box and "Reset selection".

Now you have all of Japan in view and you can zoom in on it a bit if you need to.

You can now easily select just those tiles you will need for your trip.

Then enter your email address and select "Build my map". Soon after you will receive an email confirming your request.

After some time (it may be quite some hours if many other people have requested maps), you will receive an email telling you that your map is ready for download. Go to the site and you will be presented with your map in several formats. You will want to download the version called osm_routable_gmapsupp.zip. Inside that will be a file called gmapsupp.img that can be placed into the Garmin folder on your 62s, or into a Garmin folder that you create on a microSD card for your 62s. However, I recommend that you rename the file first. If you will plan to have other maps, it is always a good idea to rename this file to something you will find easier to remember -- such as japantripmap.img -- and will keep you from overwriting any other map file called gmapsupp.img that you might already have on your unit.

 

If you need further information on the selection of the correct format and installing maps on your 62s, let us know.

Edited June 9, 2011 by ecanderson

[+splashy]

Right, only the 62 is what he LIKES to get, the budget is low.

[+goerdy]

Hi,

 

thanks for your information!

but i think i was unclear, i dont have the 62s.

I would like to have it.

I am thinking to buy or not, if there is a better or cheaper alternative that would do the job in Japan.

 

hmmm its much money...

 

i dont know what to do...

 

goerdy

[+splashy]

Try to find a preowned/ refurbished now.

Edited June 9, 2011 by splashy

[+ecanderson]

Hi,

 

thanks for your information!

but i think i was unclear, i dont have the 62s.

OK - now I understand the problem better. What GPS do you have now? Not all of them make it easy (or even possible) to load maps from other sources.

[+goerdy]

Hi again,

 

atm i have no outdoor gps.

 

I own a Smartphone with windows mobile 5 and a bluetoothdongle with surfstar3 chip.

I use the smartphone for caching with the software "cachewolf" for paperless caching.

 

so i must decide between to points:

 

1. Use the Smartphone

--> what software?

--> problem to get power when we are longer than a day without power supply...

 

2. buy a stand-alone-outdoor-navi

--> wich one

--> wich cards

--> battery or rechagable baterys?

 

I googled a lot in german and english (i understand english better than i write it ;-) )

And i think one of this 3 devices would be fine:

GPSMAP 60csx - the classic garmin

GPSMAP 62 (s/st) - the 62 has no microSD slot, i dont know how far i come with the build in flash, the "s" is nice and the "st" has onle the improfement of a build in basic map wich i dont need.

an older ETREX Vista/Summit... I dont know them well. I dont know if i can put maps on it...

 

its a bit triky...

 

regards

 

goerdy

[+ecanderson]

I own a Smartphone with windows mobile 5 and a bluetoothdongle with surfstar3 chip.

I use the smartphone for caching with the software "cachewolf" for paperless caching.

I can't help you there. I don't know who might supply Japanese maps for a Windows Mobile unit. I also understand your concern about battery use and GPS on any Smartphone - although you don't say which one you have. You will discover that Japan operates on 100V (50Hz in the "north", or "east" as they call it, 60Hz in the "south" or "west" as they call it). Whatever you choose, you will need to be ready for that for any charger(s) you bring along.

 

2. buy a stand-alone-outdoor-navi

--> wich one

--> wich cards

--> battery or rechagable baterys?

In the long run, and when you get home as well, I think you will find a standalone unit will work best for you. Be careful what you choose. While I really enjoyed my eTrex Summit which you mentioned, it has not much internal memory and no provision for an SD card, so there is not much room for maps there.

 

The newer Garmin units are by far the easiest for managing map loading and having the uSD card with lots of space can keep you from needing to move maps on and off the GPS to make space. This will be especially important if you do not plan to travel with a netbook PC or something like that. Everything you want must be loaded in advance. The newer units also do not care how many unique maps you have loaded -- this is not the case with the older models.

 

I understand that it will probably be expensive (I have seen the crazy prices that shops charge for GPS in Europe), but if you plan to use this for a long time in the future, it is probably as cheap or cheaper to get a better GPS now than buy one now and replace it later. The display and map abilities of the newer units are definitely nicer, and you do have a map problem with your planned trip.

 

I do not know if you have some preference about buttons vs. touch screen, but here are three Garmin handheld choices that will all work very well for geocaching and will accept the uSD card:

 

62S (EUr 310 at Amazon.de right now)

Dakota 20 (EUR 214 at Amazon.de right now)

Oregon 450 (EUR 280 at Amazon.de right now)

 

Clearly, the Dakota 20 is the least expensive. For your purposes, the biggest question is probably whether you will need or want the larger and somewhat clearer screen of the Oregon 450. The 62s and the Dakota 20 have the same 6.6cm display. The Oregon has a larger display with more pixels per cm2.

Edited June 9, 2011 by ecanderson

[+goerdy]

Thank you very much!!!

 

I think i have to decide between the dakota and the gpsmap.

the dakota s chaper, but i like the gpsmap with its buttons more (no reason yust feeling).

 

I watch the used ones on ebay but the market isnt very big here, and with shipping from us its no big different.

 

if i could like i wand i would order the 62s right now but i have to chek what the "finance minister" (my girlfriend) has to say^^

 

i will write if i have more questens and i will post my desicion.

 

thx!

 

goerdy

[+ecanderson]

Thank you very much!!!

 

I think i have to decide between the dakota and the gpsmap.

the dakota s chaper, but i like the gpsmap with its buttons more (no reason yust feeling).

While many people do enjoy the buttons (I started with eTrex units myself), IF you are entering "field notes" when caching to upload when you get home after a caching run, I think you will find that the text entry is MUCH faster with any of the Garmin touchscreen units than any of the button units. That alone sold me on the proposition when I bought my first Dakota 20.

[+kwcahart]

I've had good luck with google maps on my smart phone, but I don't have a clue if they have them for Japan. My Motorola Atrix takes me right to an address with the google maps, but again I don't know if that would help you in Japan.

[+goerdy]

I've had good luck with google maps on my smart phone, but I don't have a clue if they have them for Japan. My Motorola Atrix takes me right to an address with the google maps, but again I don't know if that would help you in Japan.

Hi,

 

yeah, googlemaps is on my pda very usefull for me.

But it needs an internet connection :-(

My PDA dosnt support UMTS only gprs and the hole japanese mobile-net (is it the right word? or is it grid???) is umts only no gprs or gsm... so i cant use it. and i dont want to have dificulties by getting an japanese sim-card because there are restrictions...

 

regards

 

goerdy

[+splashy]

http://shop.ebay.de/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=garmin&_sacat=See-All-Categories

[+goerdy]

http://shop.ebay.de/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=garmin&_sacat=See-All-Categories

 

hi,

 

i dont know what you like to say with this link.

I am watchin several used garmins on ebay.

Your link is onely a search for the word "garmin" and not very helpfull or is the link broken?

 

regards

[+splashy]

Hast du das überhaupt angeschaut??

 

Durchlink

 

http://www.ebay.de/ctg/Garmin-eTrex-Legend-HCx-Navigationssystem-/82884628?rt=nc&_dmpt=DE_GPS_Navigationssysteme&_pcategid=156955&_pcatid=264&_pdpal=1&_refkw=garmin&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A5245&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[+sv_ted]

I used my Garmin 450 on a month-long trip to South East Asia last fall. It was great for finding my way back to the hotel. I used OSM routeable maps. I placed a waypoint at the hotel and would then just walk. When I wanted to return I would have the 450 route me back. It was great.

[+Chrysalides]

I used my Garmin 450 on a month-long trip to South East Asia last fall. It was great for finding my way back to the hotel. I used OSM routeable maps. I placed a waypoint at the hotel and would then just walk. When I wanted to return I would have the 450 route me back. It was great.

I used my Oregon 300 with OSM as well in Singapore, works great - mostly. In Tokyo (that was with my Venture HC) and San Francisco, when among tall buildings, accuracy can be as far off as half a block.

 

For an inexpensive mapping GPSr, the Venture HC is actually not bad, except for the limited memory. The entire Japan mapset from OSM is about 250MB, and the HC has only 24MB. That means you'll need to be loading maps in and out as you travel to different parts of the country, something I imagine you'd want to avoid, especially when traveling. Perhaps a Dakota 10 if you can find it cheap. I like the Oregon because they have a much higher resolution, and the touch interface is intuitive to use.

 

ecanderson has an excellent point about lack of street names. But with a GPSr, Google maps, and a website that showed the most efficient way of getting from one station to another - including transfers, I had no trouble wandering around Tokyo on my own, and my command of the language is limited to "excuse me", "thank you" and "don't understand"

[+ecanderson]

ecanderson has an excellent point about lack of street names. But with a GPSr, Google maps, and a website that showed the most efficient way of getting from one station to another - including transfers, I had no trouble wandering around Tokyo on my own, and my command of the language is limited to "excuse me", "thank you" and "don't understand"

I didn't mean to imply that navigation there was impossible due to lack of street names - just that someone accustomed to looking for and reading them is going to be SOL until they adjust their perspective on navigation a bit! You wind up spending a lot of time trusting that the unnamed street you see on the GPS is the one you're really on, and that can require a bit more trust when you're in Tokyo's concrete canyons where the EPE can be pretty awful. OSM encourages multiple 'language' tagging for place names (Kanji, Kana, Romanji, English). Even so, creating your own waymark or POI system with English notes as you did is definitely the way to go even now. And my Japanese wasn't much more than your sumimasen, domo and wakarimasen, either.

 

I like the idea of allowing the OP to build load the whole thing in a single OSM map before leaving home (I asked about a PC on the road, but don't know if that's part of his plan) rather than trying to reload maps during the trip, and that's why I left the Dakota 10 off the list... he's going to need more space. With as many tiles as he'd need built separately given his itinerary, that could get a bit tedious.

 

Your mention of stations is another interesting point. It wasn't until the mid-1980s that more than the central core of a couple of big cities had even the station names in what we call Romanji - where Japanese words are transliterated into western letters. For others - Tokyo is composed of two rather peculiar looking ideograms, and back then, if you wandered very far from the center of town, all you would see would be the Kanji characters 東京 (I hope that worked). A rudimentary knowledge of Japanese requires being able to read and understand about 7,500 of those little gems. Fortunately, as the years rolled on, more and more of the country adopted multiple alphabets for that kind of signage, and now you'd see 東京 / Tokyo on transport signs instead (and another one altogether that we won't even discuss). So in the old days, you had someone write down the Kanji for the station name, you found out how many stops away it was, and you started counting and comparing the symbols as you got close - and prayed that your train didn't get disassembled and sent in two directions before you got there. Just as bad, early consumer GPS unit maps that I saw available (ca. 2002) of Japan carried only Kanji since they were being marketed only to Japanese customers.

 

Anyway - long story much shorter - for travel in and around Tokyo, I found the 'Tokyo Transit Guide' that was developed for western visitors an invaluable resource. AFAIK, that little pocket book is still being published and is a great navigation guide in its own right.

[+goerdy]

hi,

 

its awsome how you help me!

 

To the question: I plan to carry a Notebook with me. Not shure if it will be my big Thinkpad ore my girlfriends litle eeePC.

 

Anyway - long story much shorter - for travel in and around Tokyo, I found the 'Tokyo Transit Guide' that was developed for western visitors an invaluable resource. AFAIK, that little pocket book is still being published and is a great navigation guide in its own right.

I will search for this thanks!

 

@splashy:

with the first link i onely got to an result page of the sear for "garmin" and jes i had searched so before.

The second link is interesting, i added the etrex legend HCx to my list of posible devices because the prices for used devices are very atraktive.

 

Thank you all!

[+ecanderson]

 

To the question: I plan to carry a Notebook with me. Not shure if it will be my big Thinkpad ore my girlfriends litle eeePC.

 

That's what I take when I travel. Too often I find a machine elsewhere that is too "locked down" where I cannot run programs like GSAK or plug in a USB cable. So I use WiFi to get my PQ from here, and use the little eeePC 1005HA to connect up the GPS units.

 

Taking this along will also allow you to change maps without too much problem. This will also make it possible to make smaller maps that would fit into a GPS with smaller memory, and change them in and out as you need for the area you are in. So while I still like the units I mentioned, having the little netbook (or big Thinkpad) with you does make more options.

[+Chrysalides]

I didn't mean to imply that navigation there was impossible due to lack of street names - just that someone accustomed to looking for and reading them is going to be SOL until they adjust their perspective on navigation a bit!

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that - just that it was a surprise when I found out For a culture that has very precise rules for so many things, I thought it was very unusual.

 

Anyway, to goerdy, this is getting off topic, but if you're flying into Narita and taking the train into the city (which I recommend), you may want to consider this:

 

http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/suica-nex/

[adamget]

Hi,

 

my girlfriend and i are going to fly to japan in about 8 weeks.

we want to wwoof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWOOF) and also go to Tokyo, Hiroshima, Kyoto and maybe Osaka.

 

Especialy for Tokyo we want to take a GPS with us.

The Roadsigns arent readable, my girlfirend speaks japanese but not so well to read everithing and understand it.

 

the gps shuld have a Card view, so we can see where we are. A Navigation point to point would be nice but isnt mandatory.

 

I have a Smartphone (Vodafone VPA Compact2 witf Win mobile 5) and a bluetooth sirfStar3 dongle.

 

Do you know a good solution for the smartphone to do what we need?

What device is doing what we want? I want the Garmin GPSMap 62s for geocaching and cycling for a long time, but atm my budget is very low because of the flight tickets.

 

it would be nice if you can help

 

sry for my bad english, i'm german

 

regards

Philipp

[adamget]

Hello Philipp

 

I lived in Japan for 5 years and my wife and I spent every weekend walking in the hills in the countryside, as well as around cities etc.

 

I speak and read Japanese, but my wife does not read Japanese and we never had a problem. Yes, sometimes one might get a bit lost, but in the countryside hiking paths are well signed and usually there are maps on signboards along the way, or leaflets.

 

In towns, whilst road names are a pain, it is not a major issue in tourist areas, with tourist maps freely available from hotels and tourist offices.

 

I really don't think that you will need a GPS for walking around Japan - anyway, the Japanese are always helpful and will more than happy to help and direct you.

 

Enjoy a great country!

 

Adam

[gmphoto]

Hi, just got back from Japan. Took my trusty Garmin Etrex HCx. Light, compact, accurate, microsd card for huge map capacity, long battery life, cheap.

 

You'll love it. And the navigation is not that hard. Just ask someone if you get lost - if they don't offer first.

 

Gary

[John E Cache]

I was working in Tokyo three times before GPSs. Streets without names was challenging. The maps were puzzles. Could one of you tell me why the maps never had North at the top. Also, I remember large maps with enlarged insets that were aligned in all different directions. My method when lost was to walk until I found a subway station and then look at my subway map. Luckily all of the subway signs had English added for the Tokyo Olympics. English kind of worked. I remembered asking a Japanese co-worker to write "Tokyo Motor Show" in Japanese for the taxi driver. I handed it to the hotel doorman and he says to cab driver, "Tokyo Motor Show". I may have to go back with my GPS some time to figure out where I was. Have fun. I'm jealous.