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I don't get it...


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As far as I'm concerned, it's the LOCATIONS I treasure, not the caches full of boxes.

We can only speak from our personal observations as regards to our local P&Gs. Geographically speaking, I thing the concept that embracing the P&G mentality might be due to either physical or mental laziness could have some merit. You see, while there have been a few hidden P&G gems around here, they are the exception, not the rule. When I first got into caching, I was inspired by the Groundspeak motto; "The language of location". My bias interpreted this to mean kewl locations were inherently better than mundane ones, and I tend to thoroughly enjoy any hide that takes me to a neat place, regardless of how long the hike is. Take me to a waterfall way back in the woods, or a cozy mom & pops curio shop downtown, and I'll be happy either way. Unfortunately, (for me), the locals don't seem to have my same bias, as the overwhelmingly vast majority of P&Gs take me to utterly uninspired locations such as Wal-Mart, Burger King, Kohl's, Target, guardrails, etc, etc. While these caches are perfectly within the guidelines, they hold little appeal for me, so I tend to skip them. I really can't blame the caches themselves though, nor can I blame the hiders. They are playing the game their way and enjoying themselves in the process.

 

I do tend to lump all P&Gs together, which is probably unfair, but locally, the chaff outweighs the wheat.

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In This Thread: People conflate the distance of a cache from the parking lot with it's "creativity"
In my experience (which is all we can objectively comment from) the problem is that the two variables do tend to correlate. I had a meeting in the state capitol today, and stopped for a quick one (I'm maintaining a +50 day caching streak) at the back of a big box. Don't look, I haven't logged it yet...

 

The hide was described as "Typical, but with a twist." The only twist was that the Hide-a-Key was covered in silver duct tape to blend with the guardrail better. I do have to say I appreciated the cache name, "Forbidden Park." (Oops... well, that gives it away...) It was hidden next to a hydrant, where you can't park. Having read the description, I spent extra time there, overlooking the obvious and trying to find a clever container. Maybe that's the twist?

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In This Thread: People conflate the distance of a cache from the parking lot with it's "creativity"
In my experience (which is all we can objectively comment from) the problem is that the two variables do tend to correlate. I had a meeting in the state capitol today, and stopped for a quick one (I'm maintaining a +50 day caching streak) at the back of a big box. Don't look, I haven't logged it yet...

 

The hide was described as "Typical, but with a twist." The only twist was that the Hide-a-Key was covered in silver duct tape to blend with the guardrail better. I do have to say I appreciated the cache name, "Forbidden Park." (Oops... well, that gives it away...) It was hidden next to a hydrant, where you can't park. Having read the description, I spent extra time there, overlooking the obvious and trying to find a clever container. Maybe that's the twist?

And this is less creative than most caches you find on a trail?

Almost every single ammo can I have found was under a pile of rocks.

 

I'm just saying it's the locations people should gripe about instead of the proximity to convenient parking or the lack of a whacky container.

I mean, most of the clever camo I've seen was done to hide a cache from muggles in an urban setting. I see no correlation at all between parking and cache creativity.

Its just a simple, clean and convenient criticism to make in general.

Edited by d+n.s
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Almost every single ammo can I have found was under a pile of rocks.

 

Hey, I have one of those too! :D

 

(but you can only find it after hunting down 10 stages across town... :ph34r:)

I don't mean to imply there is anything wrong with it! I love finding an ammo can under some rocks! I love any cache that takes me somehwere new. (My favorite find of all time is pretty modest: http://coord.info/GC1DX4T)

I don't necessarily need or want a gimmicky hide every time. I just like to find new trails and stuff, but I understand others don't feel the same.

 

I have a "worse" container (long story as to why) under some rocks myself. I'm just saying, we don't complain because we don't mind walking in the woods. The cry that they "lack creativity" seems intellectually dishonest is all. I think people should feel free to dislike P&Gs or whatever they want, but lets not pretend it's something as cut and dry (and mean spirited) as laziness on the CO's part out of canvenience. These boards aren't written on paper. We have the space to give a more honest, fair and nuanced opinion.

 

People should just hide the caches they like to find, and avoid the ones they don't.

Edited by d+n.s
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I appreciate the responses to far. :)

 

My intent is not to knock generic P&G's with this question, though I'm very burnt out on them right now. They do serve a purpose and I understand placing a few.

 

What I wonder about is why some people enjoy placing hundreds of them. The vast majority of the logs for generic P&G's are not much more than "TFTC!". But, obviously some people enjoy getting lots of generic log entries.

 

Its hard to put out interesting caches. It takes the rusty gears in my mind weeks to gestate and then create a cache, so I've placed very few. But...I'd love to have more out because I enjoy the log entries so much. To me, it makes the maintenance issues worthwhile.

 

To me, a hundred TNLNSL's or TFTC's don't compare to the less frequent log entries like this:

 

I just couldn't resist...!

 

It was somwhat difficult to open the case and my eyes were really surprised at the sight of the content (somewhat like in the film PULP FICTION on opening the suitcase) and I haven't had so much fun in discovering a cache since I found '300' in Germany icon_smile_big.gificon_smile_big.gificon_smile_big.gif

 

What else can I say: he side effects are in full expansion now and next to the long log entry, I will soon move my fingers towards directing the inevitable consequence: Favorite point

 

TFTC !!!!!!!!

 

But that's my bias. I'm just trying to understand the other extreme.

 

Some people like to hide P&G's because they don't really have to maintain them. I mean come on, they only have a log. The CO does not have to continuously check the swag and refill it when it gets empty. Also, I don't like to ever just put TFTC. I always try to write something interesting about my time spent there looking for it. I love to read long logs. It really helps you know you've done your job right. But then again this is just my opinion.

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Why I like P&G's

By Someone Who Lives In An Urban Area

 

I like P&Gs, Micros, Nanos, and everything else. Why? Because the only chance I get to go out to the lovely parks that are in the outskirts of my fair city are on weekends. Were it not for all the micros, nanos, P&Gs, LPCs, and all the other derided types by the so-called experts in the sport, I'd hunt exactly 1 day a week and not be able to do something I enjoy every single day.

 

I'm really sorry I don't live in an area where I can walk out on my front porch, pat my hound dog on the head, point at a mountain and go "Yep, I'm goin' up thar today." I just don't. I live in New York City; the Bronx to be specific. There just aren't a lot of "interesting" (at least by the standards of the moaners) places to hide a cache here. It doesn't get much better the more you circle out from here until you get to Westchester / Rockland, but like I said, I have a job (some of you have probably heard of that) and that doesn't really allow me the opportunity to run 30 miles away from where I live to find ammo boxes in tree stumps, which I agree are the height of creativity and interestingness. I like them particularly when they're filled with business cards, keychains, and candy bar wrappers (a new one on me; came across one of those today).

 

In closing, allow me to say that there's a simple solution if you don't like P&G's, Nanos, urban caching, virtuals, or anything else: Use a filter and ignore them. This is a tough concept for a lot of you, but it's an important one because doing so allows you to not have to go through the pain of seing those horrible evil things in your list that ruin your day on a regular basis to the point where you have to whine bitch and complain in the forum, while those of us who can't breathe that wonderful damp mountain air on a regular basis and are relegated to our only jungle being made of concrete can still have a little fun in our spare time. It's not about being lazy, unimaginative, or anything else. Sometimes, and in my experience and area most of the time, that's what the area will bear. If I put a Lock & Lock in the 4 places I have caches, it would be gone instantly. I know some of you would say "then it's a bad spot for a cache." Well, no, stupid. It's New York City. We don't have a lot of places you can hide something that big, and the places that you can hide 'em are already home to other caches. Funny how that works in an urban area, isn't it?

 

I really do hope that clears things up and I'm really sorry to "clutter" your network of lock and locks and ammo boxes with anything smaller than a box of tissues.

 

Seriously, people. Get a grip already. Enough bitching. You don't like 'em, ignore 'em. Some of us do. Go ahead and have your fun, just try not to crap on our fun, ok?

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Vince, after you've been here a while, you'll realize that the vast majority of folks who are not fans of P&G urban micros do exactly what you are asking. They customize their hunt to maximize their enjoyment. That, however, does not automatically remove them from the list of folks who are allowed to post their opinions in an Internet forum designed specifically for such discourse.

 

For instance, I think must urban micro P&Gs are lame. It's my opinion. So long as I share my opinion in a civil manner, I don't think I should be compelled to keep it to myself. These forums would be a pretty boring place if the only input allowed were those statements that agreed with the opening post, right? While silencing the dissenters works well in some environments, it hasn't really caught on here.

 

Perhaps we could make a tiny adjustment to your suggestion?

 

"If you don't like them, don't hunt them. And feel free to tell us you don't like them"

 

That has a much nicer ring to it.

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Vince, after you've been here a while, you'll realize that the vast majority of folks who are not fans of P&G urban micros do exactly what you are asking. They customize their hunt to maximize their enjoyment. That, however, does not automatically remove them from the list of folks who are allowed to post their opinions in an Internet forum designed specifically for such discourse.

 

Don't believe I said they shouldn't express their opinion, but I've heard it again and again and again in threads in the last 3 days, mainly with people saying they don't understand why anyone would want to engage in cache pollution, and by cache pollution they mean anything that isn't under a rock on a trail in an ammo can. There's a general snobbery about anything that isn't in a forest that's kind of annoying. I didn't say they couldn't express their opinion. Go for it. It's a free country. At least, however, have some background. When you say you don't understand something, don't get annoyed if someone explains it to you. What set me off most was BigAl437 saying, essentially, they're there because the owners are essentially lazy and uncreative, which is obviously not completely correct. The cache type is dictated by its environment as much as it's dictated by the personality of the hider. Seeing some of the crazy locations I've found these tiny little containers in in New York City hardly demonstrates laziness or lack of creativity. To me, it takes more creativity to keep something from the eyes of thousands of people while it's out in the open as opposed to 500 feet off a hiking trail in a park. Arguing that there are a lot of lamppost caches or magnetic micros and therefore there's a lack of creativity ignores the fact that there are tons of lock and locks in tree roots or ammo boxes under rocks. Are they uncreative too? I guess, but you just don't hear it a whole lot, particularly on here.

 

Also, just because I don't have a long list of posts to my credit doesn't mean I'm new here.

 

For instance, I think must urban micro P&Gs are lame. It's my opinion. So long as I share my opinion in a civil manner, I don't think I should be compelled to keep it to myself. These forums would be a pretty boring place if the only input allowed were those statements that agreed with the opening post, right? While silencing the dissenters works well in some environments, it hasn't really caught on here.

 

Again; no one is compelling anyone to keep anything to themselves. In fact, my suggestion was "Seriously, people. Get a grip already. Enough bitching. You don't like 'em, ignore 'em. Some of us do. Go ahead and have your fun, just try not to crap on our fun, ok?" and I don't think there's anything unreasonable about that. In fact, I'm asking people to have more respect for something they don't agree with (ie: us uncreative lazy stats hound urban folks).

 

Perhaps we could make a tiny adjustment to your suggestion?

 

"If you don't like them, don't hunt them. And feel free to tell us you don't like them"

 

That has a much nicer ring to it.

 

I have a better idea.

 

How about "stop beating the same point into the ground and insulting other people playing the game simply because you don't like the kinds of caches they hide or pursue, and just play the game the way you like instead of trying to control it for other people?"

 

That has an even nicer ring to it.

 

Or how about this:

 

"I don't need everything to conform to my idea of how things should work, and realize that in the adult world, not everything that is done is something I want to do or need to participate in and that's fine, and just because I don't want to do things the way someone else does doesn't make them lazy, uncreative, or boring."

 

Yeah... I think that has the best tone of all. Live and let live.

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In This Thread: People conflate the distance of a cache from the parking lot with it's "creativity"

 

Does everyone else just live in an ugly boring city? In Austin there are TONS of awesome P&Gs that take you to neat little shops, culture spots, sculptures, museums, fountains or just nice simple views in a small city park.

If someone want to tell me that this cache is somehow worse than this cache it's fine, but lets not pretend one is "lazy and uncreative" while the other isn't.

It's intellectually dishonest. You just like hiking to caches as a matter of preference. Cut and dry.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the LOCATIONS I treasure, not the caches full of boxes. That's why I don't mind getting a DNF from time to time.

 

I'm with you to a point. I've enjoyed many park n grabs and own a few myself. It's not the distance from parking that makes a good cache. I could be wrong, but I doubt that Ecylram and most others who have been denigrating park n grabs in this thread were referring awesome PnGs.

 

I think the issue most people have with these caches is not park n grabs per se, but with the flood of mundane ones that makes finding the gems a chore.

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I don't necessarily need or want a gimmicky hide every time. I just like to find new trails and stuff, but I understand others don't feel the same.

 

Agreed. In fact, sometimes the gimmicky hides just get annoying after awhile.

 

Show me an interesting location and I don't care if it is an urban setting or a hike in the woods. I don't care if it is an imaginative hide or an ammocan in the rocks.

 

Some of my caches are micros on guardrails. Some are ammocans under rocks after a good hike. Bottom line? If you put some thought into the location both types of caches can generate positive experiences. Below are some quotes from some of the finders of my caches -- doesn't seem to matter that some of them are PnGs...

 

"I love these one way bridges in areas like this. It is so calm and peaceful in the valley. You can hear the wind overhead through the trees. What a beautiful spot."

 

"Easy find this afternoon, but we couldn't get over how quiet and serene it was out here! We stood here for a while just soaking up the sunshine and the warm winter views. Thanks for putting out a reason to explore the area!"

 

"First time we explore this road. It was a wonderful drive with HeadJackSpyder on a warm fall day. The trail was great and the fall colours in the trees were spectacular."

 

"Absolutely loved our drive on this road - so scenic! And the view from the cache is beautiful! Thanks for bringing us here!"

 

"What a great cache. We had a beautiful day to ride and the pictographs were neat to see. This is a cache worth looking for."

 

"Although I've driven by here many times, I've never stopped. Thanks for putting a cache here so that i can re-learn the local history."

 

"have driven by here many times without paying attention to this neat little historic site. Very interesting. Thanks for bringing us here."

 

"WOW never would have know what was here have been traveling this highway for many years and never noticed this before! thanks for highlighting the area!!"

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I've lived in New York City my entire life, in various parts of the five boroughs. Were it not for these dreaded urban micros, there are a lot of places I not only never would've gone, but some really cool things I never would've seen, which is what annoys me so much about the general criticism of "big deal, I go all that way just to find a log." Yeah, dope, now look around you and see why you're there?

 

And yes, Park and Grabs aren't always in the most interesting spots, but for those, I just see them as more of a game, and that game is "grab the log without drawing attention to yourself." In those cases, the game isn't "where did this lead me?" but "what do I do when I get there?"

 

Last night, my wife and I were trying to grab a lamp post micro that was literally 15 feet from a Target's main entrance. I thought it was fun as hell trying to figure out when we could try and make a grab; waiting people out, etc. We didn't end up grabbing it, but that'll be a challenge for us to take on another time. At the same time, we were running through the streets of Greenwich yesterday trying to match photos to come up with coordinates of a hide. I also crawled around 3 feet from a 10 foot drop into the ocean to extracate a cache from a 2 foot hole under a rock. All of the 7 finds I and my wife made yesterday were a hell of a lot of fun and we had a great time.

 

If we enjoyed finding some simple ones, some tougher ones, and a few in between and that means we're "doing it wrong" in some ways, then so be it. We're doing it wrong.

 

But we're enjoying it.

 

And that's the point. Park and Grabs aren't fun because they're park and grabs, they're fun because they give you a nice easy grab when you otherwise wouldn't be able to make time out to cache at all.

 

Micros are fun because they're a pain in the a** to find and often take you to a spot in an urban area you'd otherwise ignore.

 

Forest and Park lock and locks and ammo cans are fun because they usually have the best trade stuff in them and really isolate you from the hustle and bustle.

 

Fun is in the eye of the enjoyer :-)

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"I don't need everything to conform to my idea of how things should work, and realize that in the adult world, not everything that is done is something I want to do or need to participate in and that's fine, and just because I don't want to do things the way someone else does doesn't make them lazy, uncreative, or boring."

 

Yeah... I think that has the best tone of all. Live and let live.

 

If only it were so.

 

I think some just like calling others lazy and uncreative.

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Live and let live.

An interesting concept. Not one I'd expect from you, given the tone of your earlier post:

 

...the so-called experts

...I'm goin' up thar today.

...the standards of the moaners

...I have a job (some of you have probably heard of that)

...ammo boxes in tree stumps, which I agree are the height of creativity and interestingness.

...I like them particularly when they're filled with business cards, keychains, and candy bar wrappers

...This is a tough concept for a lot of you

...the pain of seing those horrible evil things

...that ruin your day on a regular basis

...whine bitch and complain

...that wonderful damp mountain air

...stupid

...Funny how that works in an urban area, isn't it?

...I'm really sorry to "clutter" your network of lock and locks and ammo boxes

...Enough bitching

I guess since derision failed for you, you're switching to tolerance? <_<

Don't get me wrong. I'm not absolutely opposed to derision. If you, (the collective you), thinks a particular thing really sucks, then let it fly! Tell the whole world it sucks. Just don't get any tarnish on your Tolerance Halo doing so.

Also, just because I don't have a long list of posts to my credit doesn't mean I'm new here.

It's not the number of forums posts that indicate you are fairly new around here.

It's the "Joined: 28-March 11" under your avatar.

Edited by Clan Riffster
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... but I doubt that Ecylram and most others who have been denigrating park n grabs in this thread were referring awesome PnGs.

 

I think the issue most people have with these caches is not park n grabs per se, but with the flood of mundane ones that makes finding the gems a chore.

Actually, I'm not interested in denigrating P&G's. I've found a lot o them and I own two caches that could be considered P&G's. My original question was why a cacher would want to place 100's of caches that don't generate interesting logs. I figured it had to do with something more than "numbers" but nobody seemed to come up with a better explanation than "numbers".

 

The topic now seems to be P&G's in general. I'm not anti-P&G. I think Brian is right, many are tired of seeing so many FC's in LPC's and see too-few creative/entertaining/challenging micro hides.

 

I've given several favorite points to micros that were more than FC's under a rock or in an LPC. Wish I could award more but those types of micros are hard to come by.

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In This Thread: People conflate the distance of a cache from the parking lot with it's "creativity"
In my experience (which is all we can objectively comment from) the problem is that the two variables do tend to correlate. I had a meeting in the state capitol today, and stopped for a quick one (I'm maintaining a +50 day caching streak) at the back of a big box. Don't look, I haven't logged it yet...

 

The hide was described as "Typical, but with a twist." The only twist was that the Hide-a-Key was covered in silver duct tape to blend with the guardrail better. I do have to say I appreciated the cache name, "Forbidden Park." (Oops... well, that gives it away...) It was hidden next to a hydrant, where you can't park. Having read the description, I spent extra time there, overlooking the obvious and trying to find a clever container. Maybe that's the twist?

And this is less creative than most caches you find on a trail?

Almost every single ammo can I have found was under a pile of rocks.

 

I'm just saying it's the locations people should gripe about instead of the proximity to convenient parking or the lack of a whacky container.

I mean, most of the clever camo I've seen was done to hide a cache from muggles in an urban setting. I see no correlation at all between parking and cache creativity.

Its just a simple, clean and convenient criticism to make in general.

 

As is "Almost every single ammo can I have found was under a pile of rocks" Ever try looking for one of those thing under heavy tree cover with a Garmin unit Manufactured in 2005? Maybe that's just me. :P

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Don't believe I said they shouldn't express their opinion...

 

Again; no one is compelling anyone to keep anything to themselves. In fact, my suggestion was "Seriously, people. Get a grip already. Enough bitching...."

I can see how some people might interpret your suggestion as telling people that they shouldn't express their opinion and/or that they should keep something to themselves.

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In This Thread: People conflate the distance of a cache from the parking lot with it's "creativity"
In my experience (which is all we can objectively comment from) the problem is that the two variables do tend to correlate. I had a meeting in the state capitol today, and stopped for a quick one (I'm maintaining a +50 day caching streak) at the back of a big box. Don't look, I haven't logged it yet...

 

The hide was described as "Typical, but with a twist." The only twist was that the Hide-a-Key was covered in silver duct tape to blend with the guardrail better. I do have to say I appreciated the cache name, "Forbidden Park." (Oops... well, that gives it away...) It was hidden next to a hydrant, where you can't park. Having read the description, I spent extra time there, overlooking the obvious and trying to find a clever container. Maybe that's the twist?

And this is less creative than most caches you find on a trail?

Almost every single ammo can I have found was under a pile of rocks.

 

I'm just saying it's the locations people should gripe about instead of the proximity to convenient parking or the lack of a whacky container.

I mean, most of the clever camo I've seen was done to hide a cache from muggles in an urban setting. I see no correlation at all between parking and cache creativity.

Its just a simple, clean and convenient criticism to make in general.

As is "Almost every single ammo can I have found was under a pile of rocks" Ever try looking for one of those thing under heavy tree cover with a Garmin unit Manufactured in 2005? Maybe that's just me. :P
The other thing is that most ammo cans hidden in the rocks/sticks have in their descriptions something to the effect that "Just another ammo can hidden in the typical way." Ammo can hides tend to have cache owners who can own up to the hide. Why? I think it's because cache owners in general feel better about bringing you into the woods for an ammo can than they do about bringing you to the backside of a Lowe's to find a duct tape covered hide-a-key stuck in a hornet infested guardrail. They don't need to hype the cache by saying it's got a twist. It doesn't need the twist to attract people.
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I'm really sorry I don't live in an area where I can walk out on my front porch, pat my hound dog on the head, point at a mountain and go "Yep, I'm goin' up thar today." I just don't. I live in New York City; the Bronx to be specific.

 

New York city is one of the world's most unique and interesting cities. If people can only hide mundane caches in NYC they just aren't trying very hard.

 

Don't believe I said they shouldn't express their opinion, but I've heard it again and again and again in threads in the last 3 days, mainly with people saying they don't understand why anyone would want to engage in cache pollution, and by cache pollution they mean anything that isn't under a rock on a trail in an ammo can.

 

I think you are totally misunderstanding what most people who are referring to "cache pollution" mean.

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Like I said, differet game. I've begun to think that there should be a seperate website for any cache, micro or smaller, that's in a parking lot.

 

Good lord... Really? :blink:

 

Sheesh. Cachin' is cachin'.

 

Wow... I didn't expect some sort of Spanish Inquisition :ph34r:

 

But to make the point a little simpler for you: In my opinion,

No It's Not!

 

I don't think I berated anyone. Of course I don't really think there's going to be a seperate website for P&G's, but I do think there's a problem brewing.

Geocaching is an evolving game, and we can expect things to change, OK? :)

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Like I said, differet game. I've begun to think that there should be a seperate website for any cache, micro or smaller, that's in a parking lot.

 

Good lord... Really? :blink:

 

Sheesh. Cachin' is cachin'.

 

Wow... I didn't expect some sort of Spanish Inquisition :ph34r:

 

But to make the point a little simpler for you: In my opinion,

No It's Not!

 

I don't think I berated anyone. Of course I don't really think there's going to be a seperate website for P&G's, but I do think there's a problem brewing.

Geocaching is an evolving game, and we can expect things to change, OK? :)

That's not the issue with what you said, it's just so implausible. Who's to decide what caches belong here and what don't? What about a cache hidden on a tree 5 feet from a parking lot? What about a small cache hidden in a parking lot? How about we start putting cheap tupperware (regulars) inside the lamp post instead. It's not like it would make a difference, regulars are the same as micro's (Unless you like swag, but swag is quite pointless). Too many loopholes to such a rule, and in the end it would just cause complaining between, reviewers over which site to list it on.

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I don't get it. Why is there always a thread where people whine about how others are playing the game?

 

What's the point to it?

 

It's just a game. With fairly open ended rules so that a LOT of people can play it.

 

I'm a pretty strong advocate of using your ignore list as a tool to make geocaching more fun. Many people don't use this valuable tool - learn it, use it, love it!

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I don't get it. Why is there always a thread where people whine about how others are playing the game?

 

What's the point to it?

 

It's just a game. With fairly open ended rules so that a LOT of people can play it.

I'm a pretty strong advocate of using your ignore list as a tool to make geocaching more fun. Many people don't use this valuable tool - learn it, use it, love it!

 

Funny how so many control freaks are drawn to a game with such open ended rules. :blink:

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...People tend to hide the types of caches they enjoy finding.

And THERE is the bottom line to all this!

 

Not true. I asked the question about a year ago in a forum topic because this mantra kept coming up about lame micro hides "People tend to hide the types of caches they enjoy finding". I asked if this was true. The majority of replies said that people tend to hide micros because they are cheaper to hide, not because they preferred finding micros over finding larger containers. Some switched to micro hides after having regular size caches muggled. They have said that they didn't want to spend the money on a bigger cache only to have it disappear.

 

With regards to lame P&Gs it's probably something similar -- if we define lame to include a cheap leaky container (film canister, margarine tub, yogurt tub, key holder, etc.). They're probably hiding those because it costs as little as possible (sometimes free when you don't camo the container and throw a scrap piece of paper in it for a log). Some also don't have GPS receivers so they're going to hide P&Gs because coordinates are easier to get off of google earth, when you hide them next to a road as opposed to deep in the woods.

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I don't get it. Why is there always a thread where people whine about how others are playing the game?

 

What's the point to it?

 

Because how the CO plays the game effects the finder's enjoyment of the game. And the pocketbook too - have you noticed the price of gasoline?

 

It's just a game. With fairly open ended rules so that a LOT of people can play it.

 

I'm a pretty strong advocate of using your ignore list as a tool to make geocaching more fun. Many people don't use this valuable tool - learn it, use it, love it!

 

You often can't know how cheap the cache experience is, until you get there. Driving 10 miles out of one's way to find a leaky cracked gladware container by a stump in a ditch by a busy road.

 

I think the valuable tool is the online logs. Instead of "Thanks for the quick find" I'm honest about the experience and will more likely post "I probably shouldn't have parked on the narrow shoulder. It was a bit risky. I had to wait for a break in traffic to open the car door. I hopped the stream in the ditch, climbed the short hill to the tree and found the gladware container. The lid is cracked and the logsheet is damp but I was able to sign the log with my sharpie pen."

 

Although, the ignore list is a good tool - after a couple of these cheap hides from the same CO, I would put the rest of the CO's caches on ignore.

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In This Thread: People conflate the distance of a cache from the parking lot with it's "creativity"
In my experience (which is all we can objectively comment from) the problem is that the two variables do tend to correlate. I had a meeting in the state capitol today, and stopped for a quick one (I'm maintaining a +50 day caching streak) at the back of a big box. Don't look, I haven't logged it yet...

 

The hide was described as "Typical, but with a twist." The only twist was that the Hide-a-Key was covered in silver duct tape to blend with the guardrail better. I do have to say I appreciated the cache name, "Forbidden Park." (Oops... well, that gives it away...) It was hidden next to a hydrant, where you can't park. Having read the description, I spent extra time there, overlooking the obvious and trying to find a clever container. Maybe that's the twist?

And this is less creative than most caches you find on a trail?

Almost every single ammo can I have found was under a pile of rocks.

 

I'm just saying it's the locations people should gripe about instead of the proximity to convenient parking or the lack of a whacky container.

I mean, most of the clever camo I've seen was done to hide a cache from muggles in an urban setting. I see no correlation at all between parking and cache creativity.

Its just a simple, clean and convenient criticism to make in general.

 

As is "Almost every single ammo can I have found was under a pile of rocks" Ever try looking for one of those thing under heavy tree cover with a Garmin unit Manufactured in 2005? Maybe that's just me. :P

No it isn't. It's just a fact. There is nothing subjective or critical about what I said about ammo cans under rock piles or in tree stumps. Again, I don't mind finding an ammo can under rocks. I actually quite like it. I'm just no pretending it's the creativity of those hides I enjoy. It's the location.

 

I think most people in this thread actually agree, but some insist on using shorthand and others are articulating a more defined gripe.

Edited by d+n.s
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Why is there always a thread where people whine about how others are playing the game?

Uh... You are aware that this is an Internet forum, right?

You know how those things work, right?

One person posts something. Other folks reply to it with their opinions.

Sometimes these opinions are different than the OP.

Would you prefer a Vincenzosi world, where dissent is silenced at any cost?

To my way of thinking, that would be a scary place.

But at least all the whiners, (AKA: Anyone who holds an opinion differing from yours), would be gone.

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Why is there always a thread where people whine about how others are playing the game?

Uh... You are aware that this is an Internet forum, right?

You know how those things work, right?

One person posts something. Other folks reply to it with their opinions.

Sometimes these opinions are different than the OP.

Would you prefer a Vincenzosi world, where dissent is silenced at any cost?

To my way of thinking, that would be a scary place.

But at least all the whiners, (AKA: Anyone who holds an opinion differing from yours), would be gone.

Oh my gosh yes. Who wouldn't? A world where everyone does what I want, agrees with me, with no dissent and no whining? Sign me up! B)

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Why is there always a thread where people whine about how others are playing the game?

Uh... You are aware that this is an Internet forum, right?

You know how those things work, right?

One person posts something. Other folks reply to it with their opinions.

Sometimes these opinions are different than the OP.

Would you prefer a Vincenzosi world, where dissent is silenced at any cost?

To my way of thinking, that would be a scary place.

But at least all the whiners, (AKA: Anyone who holds an opinion differing from yours), would be gone.

I prefer a world where people can eat whatever flavor of ice cream they like, even if it is some lame flavor like octopus or sauerkraut. Sure there will be ice cream critics who will write in the icecream.com forum that chocolate and vanilla are the only real flavors of ice cream. And they are entitled to their opinion. Perhaps, if you are going to tell someone that the flavor of ice cream they like sucks you should use this site or this one. :mmraspberry:

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Sure there will be ice cream critics who will write in the icecream.com forum that chocolate and vanilla are the only real flavors of ice cream.

That seems like it would be a very lonely job. One could almost liken the ice cream critic to the guys in these forums who use thousands of words of text to convey their theory that their view of caching is the only acceptable one, and those who disagree should "quit whining". I much prefer the current format, where those who like catfish & bourbon ice cream can eat it to their heart's content, while those who think it's icky can express their dissenting view.

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Sure there will be ice cream critics who will write in the icecream.com forum that chocolate and vanilla are the only real flavors of ice cream.

That seems like it would be a very lonely job. One could almost liken the ice cream critic to the guys in these forums who use thousands of words of text to convey their theory that their view of caching is the only acceptable one, and those who disagree should "quit whining". I much prefer the current format, where those who like catfish & bourbon ice cream can eat it to their heart's content, while those who think it's icky can express their dissenting view.

 

Yeah, that would be great, wouldn't it?

 

Of course, if that same ice cream critic joined, let's say, interneticecream.com and called every person eating that ice cream lazy and uncreative, and then had a bunch of people chime in along with him saying that interneticecream.com should never have those flavors and those flavors should have their own site so as not to clutter the "real" ice cream and the "true spirit" of ice cream, than people who liked that ice cream would probably have a point in telling the folks complaining to stop bitching about it and ignore it because they didn't appreciate the continuous insults from people who don't appreciate their flavors.

 

Then someone would invariably quote the whole thing out of context and insult them, then accuse them of quashing dissent because they got tired of being insulted and belittled and dared to speak.

 

That is how the internet works, isn't it?

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Sure there will be ice cream critics who will write in the icecream.com forum that chocolate and vanilla are the only real flavors of ice cream.

That seems like it would be a very lonely job. One could almost liken the ice cream critic to the guys in these forums who use thousands of words of text to convey their theory that their view of caching is the only acceptable one, and those who disagree should "quit whining". I much prefer the current format, where those who like catfish & bourbon ice cream can eat it to their heart's content, while those who think it's icky can express their dissenting view.

 

Yeah, that would be great, wouldn't it?

 

Of course, if that same ice cream critic joined, let's say, interneticecream.com and called every person eating that ice cream lazy and uncreative, and then had a bunch of people chime in along with him saying that interneticecream.com should never have those flavors and those flavors should have their own site so as not to clutter the "real" ice cream and the "true spirit" of ice cream, than people who liked that ice cream would probably have a point in telling the folks complaining to stop bitching about it and ignore it because they didn't appreciate the continuous insults from people who don't appreciate their flavors.

 

Then someone would invariably quote the whole thing out of context and insult them, then accuse them of quashing dissent because they got tired of being insulted and belittled and dared to speak.

 

That is how the internet works, isn't it?

 

I'd be happy with a world in which we could all eat the ice cream of our choice. And if someone didn't like my ice cream they could feel free to discuss why they don't like my ice cream instead of calling me a tasteless, half-wit too lazy and uncreative to buy and eat the ice cream they like.

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I'd be happy with a world in which we could all eat the ice cream of our choice. And if someone didn't like my ice cream they could feel free to discuss why they don't like my ice cream instead of calling me a tasteless, half-wit too lazy and uncreative to buy and eat the ice cream they like.

 

What a wonderful world :-)

 

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Sure there will be ice cream critics who will write in the icecream.com forum that chocolate and vanilla are the only real flavors of ice cream.

That seems like it would be a very lonely job. One could almost liken the ice cream critic to the guys in these forums who use thousands of words of text to convey their theory that their view of caching is the only acceptable one, and those who disagree should "quit whining". I much prefer the current format, where those who like catfish & bourbon ice cream can eat it to their heart's content, while those who think it's icky can express their dissenting view.

 

Yeah, that would be great, wouldn't it?

 

Of course, if that same ice cream critic joined, let's say, interneticecream.com and called every person eating that ice cream lazy and uncreative, and then had a bunch of people chime in along with him saying that interneticecream.com should never have those flavors and those flavors should have their own site so as not to clutter the "real" ice cream and the "true spirit" of ice cream, than people who liked that ice cream would probably have a point in telling the folks complaining to stop bitching about it and ignore it because they didn't appreciate the continuous insults from people who don't appreciate their flavors.

 

Then someone would invariably quote the whole thing out of context and insult them, then accuse them of quashing dissent because they got tired of being insulted and belittled and dared to speak.

 

That is how the internet works, isn't it?

 

I'd be happy with a world in which we could all eat the ice cream of our choice. And if someone didn't like my ice cream they could feel free to discuss why they don't like my ice cream instead of calling me a tasteless, half-wit too lazy and uncreative to buy and eat the ice cream they like.

pretty much...

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Why is there always a thread where people whine about how others are playing the game?

Uh... You are aware that this is an Internet forum, right?

You know how those things work, right?

One person posts something. Other folks reply to it with their opinions.

Sorry. There was a whole level of intended ironical humor in there that a. didn't work or b. you didn't get. Never mind, I don't have anything else clever or intelligent to add to this.

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...and called every person eating that ice cream lazy and uncreative

Or, we could go one step further, and use that same word you used to describe those who disagree with your views.

What was that word again? Oh, got it. You called them "stupid". Sorry for the delay. Old age, and all that.

I seem to recall something about kettles, pots and dark colors. I'll get it in a minute... :rolleyes:

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Or, we could go one step further, and use that same word you used to describe those who disagree with your views.

What was that word again? Oh, got it. You called them "stupid". Sorry for the delay. Old age, and all that.

I seem to recall something about kettles, pots and dark colors. I'll get it in a minute... :rolleyes:

Old age has also, apparently, rendered your reading ability suspect. I only used the word "stupid" once in the whole thread, and it wasn't directed at someone who "disagrees with my views." Here's the context.

 

If I put a Lock & Lock in the 4 places I have caches, it would be gone instantly. I know some of you would say "then it's a bad spot for a cache." Well, no, stupid. It's New York City. We don't have a lot of places you can hide something that big, and the places that you can hide 'em are already home to other caches. Funny how that works in an urban area, isn't it?

Translation (for those who aren't clear on the subject): If you think you can place a 50 cal Ammo Can or even a Lock & Lock on 5th Avenue in Manhattan and have it last there for more than 20 seconds, well then you can call that level of common sense whatever you want, but that's not criticizing someone for "disagreeing with my views," that's a pretty simple statement of obvious fact. Hiders place what the area will bear. Do they "underplace" at times? Of course. As I've said (and have others) quite a few times, however, the container type does not represent the creativity level, "laziness", or anything else of the person hiding it because a few people choose badly.

I know you live in a nice area surrounded by huge wildlife preserves that are a stone's throw away and that's great. We don't. Your town has 85,000 people in it. The subway stop next to my office serves 12 times that number a day. We live in different worlds; maybe you need some more perspective.

 

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I'd be happy with a world in which we could all eat the ice cream of our choice. And if someone didn't like my ice cream they could feel free to discuss why they don't like my ice cream instead of calling me a tasteless, half-wit too lazy and uncreative to buy and eat the ice cream they like.

 

What a wonderful world :-)

 

 

Guess what, guys... to me, you are part of the internet.

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