Blank logging

[+Dragontree]

A very irritating and seemingly ever-increasing feature of logging Finds in the UK is just entering Found and the finder's Caching Name.

Is it because of new technology used at GZ? If so, surely something can be added when back at a PC? Even if it was, how much you disliked the cache!

Maybe it is just because some new cachers really can't be bothered?

Groundspeak - would it be possible to make it a Requirement for that box?

I thought at one time an entry was required to activate?

What do others think?

We feel like Deleting the entry!

[+perth pathfinders]

A very irritating and seemingly ever-increasing feature of logging Finds in the UK is just entering Found and the finder's Caching Name.

Is it because of new technology used at GZ? If so, surely something can be added when back at a PC? Even if it was, how much you disliked the cache!

Maybe it is just because some new cachers really can't be bothered?

Groundspeak - would it be possible to make it a Requirement for that box?

I thought at one time an entry was required to activate?

What do others think?

We feel like Deleting the entry!

 

You think that is annoying??

 

Wait till you get a blank DNF, Maintenance or even Needs Archived - as a CO how are you supposed to react to that???

 

I had thought of making caches Premium member only but not sure that would solve it.

Edited June 6, 2011 by perth pathfinders

[+Delta68]

To my knowledge, we have never received a blank log.

 

I don't think I would care very much if we did get any.

To me, blank logs contain no more and no less information than the sort of pointless copy/pasted logs saying:

"Found on a caching trip with AAAA,BBBB and CCCC"

 

All our physical caches are PMO which helps

 

 

Mark

[+Gushoneybun]

Sadly this is due to logging via smartphones. I believe it is not possible to log via a find on a PC and write nothing (never tried) but the various Apps do allow it.

 

You can try emailing the finder, suggesting it is nice to write something, I have done this a few times often the logger has replied and said sorry and written something, other emails get ignored and the blank log remains. In one recent case I got a load of abuse back from a newbie, I was tempted to delete the log and make the cache PMO as they were a basic member but in the end decided to ignore them. Their snotty log on one of my caches remains.

[+Bear and Ragged]

It's not always the noobs... 141 cachers have found/logged the cache.

One has left a blank log, and that from a member of 2 years when finding the cache.

[+Matthew 7:7 Too]

Yep, I blame users of smugphones too. I saw one recently where they complained the cache wasn't where their phone said it should be!

 

Chris

[+Splendidz]

I know, blank logs really wind me up as well

I had somebody yesterday who found 3 of a series of mine (PM only) which are all unusual hides/containers (so usually get long logs!) and they left blank logs.... and then they had the cheek to email me asking for a help with one of the puzzles I replied with a hint and was very tempted to say something - but wimped out as I didn't want to appear stroppy!... Although if they find the puzzle and still leave a blank log, I will definitely tell them what I think

[+perth pathfinders]

I know, blank logs really wind me up as well

I had somebody yesterday who found 3 of a series of mine (PM only) which are all unusual hides/containers (so usually get long logs!) and they left blank logs.... and then they had the cheek to email me asking for a help with one of the puzzles I replied with a hint and was very tempted to say something - but wimped out as I didn't want to appear stroppy!... Although if they find the puzzle and still leave a blank log, I will definitely tell them what I think

 

Ha ha you missed an opportunity there - you could have replied with a blank email!!

[+Gushoneybun]

 

Ha ha you missed an opportunity there - you could have replied with a blank email!!

 

:laughing:

[+t4e]

 

Wait till you get a blank DNF, Maintenance or even Needs Archived - as a CO how are you supposed to react to that???

 

 

delete it

[+thehalibutkid]

I'd just like to say as a cellphone cacher that I always leave a reasonable log. I copy paste an entry that states 'In field will edit later. TFTC' Then I go and write the proper log over the next couple of days via my computer.

 

I also regularly email CO's if they have done a particularly wonderful cache or if, for instance, the cache is going to need attention soon. I think that just because some people who use cellphones are lazy doesn't mean that all cellphonme users are. People can just as easilly post C+P logs or "." ones over the internet. Who use something cheap like an etrex or even an in-car satnav.

 

Cellphones have been the cause of many more people taking up the hobby which is both good and bad. However a more accessable hobby will mean that the people engaging are more likly to be representative of the general population no longer mostly "geeky walker" types.

[+redsox_mark]

Groundspeak purposely made the decision to allow blank logs from "smartphones".

 

Personally I think that was a mistake. Why? Well, I know a blank log is no worse really than a "TFTC" log. But it does send a signal to the user that it is OK to not leave a comment at all. If you force the user to put something in the box, then then it is likely they will think about why they need to put something in.

 

I remember when I logged my first find. I didn't know what to say in the log (and my log was pretty brief). However - I did learn that I needed to log something, and over time my logs got better.

 

If a new user is basically told that logs are optional, it's easy for them to get into a habit of blank logs.

 

Mark

[+gazooks]

I've had several blank logs of late and have sent the cachers in question a polite email explaining why logs are important to cache owners.

 

I also pointed out that I personally consider a blank log to be rude. All but one ccaher has gone back and written something.

 

The other logs I hate (while we are on the subject) is just 'TFTC' - just s bad as a blank one in my books.

[+currykev]

Wait til you get 3 finds from the same cacher for the same cache on the same day with nothing in the logs.

Seen that 4 times in the last month.

[+mollyjak]

We had a number of tftc over the weekend from the same cacher 30 odd finds so I politely emailed and asked if he didn't like them as he hadn't commented on them. Not had a reply yet

 

Decided I am going to do this from now as perhaps they really don't know the correct procedure

[+perth pathfinders]

I'd just like to say as a cellphone cacher that I always leave a reasonable log. I copy paste an entry that states 'In field will edit later. TFTC' Then I go and write the proper log over the next couple of days via my computer.

 

I also regularly email CO's if they have done a particularly wonderful cache or if, for instance, the cache is going to need attention soon. I think that just because some people who use cellphones are lazy doesn't mean that all cellphonme users are. People can just as easilly post C+P logs or "." ones over the internet. Who use something cheap like an etrex or even an in-car satnav.

 

 

That is very considerate of you, however, are you aware, that unless you completely delete your log and re-do it, the cache owner does not get an email showing your adjustment. For those of us that have hundreds of caches out there, we cannot possibly remember which cache page was logged by which cacher to then have to go into the cache page to read their proper logs to make sure everything is OK.

 

Don't phone apps have the option to do field notes or save offline so you can adjust your comments before logging live? There is no necessity to do an immediate log.

 

It is always nice to receive a personal email about your cache, nice touch!

 

(signed: a person who uses something cheap and never does C/P logs or full stop logs).

Edited June 6, 2011 by perth pathfinders

[+thehalibutkid]

I'd just like to say as a cellphone cacher that I always leave a reasonable log. I copy paste an entry that states 'In field will edit later. TFTC' Then I go and write the proper log over the next couple of days via my computer.

 

I also regularly email CO's if they have done a particularly wonderful cache or if, for instance, the cache is going to need attention soon. I think that just because some people who use cellphones are lazy doesn't mean that all cellphonme users are. People can just as easilly post C+P logs or "." ones over the internet. Who use something cheap like an etrex or even an in-car satnav.

 

 

That is very considerate of you, however, are you aware, that unless you completely delete your log and re-do it, the cache owner does not get an email showing your adjustment. For those of us that have hundreds of caches out there, we cannot possibly remember which cache page was logged by which cacher to then have to go into the cache page to read their proper logs to make sure everything is OK with the cache.

 

Don't phone apps have the option to do field notes or save offline so you can adjust your comments before logging live? There is no necessity to do an immediate log.

 

It is always nice to receive a personal email about your cache, nice touch!

 

(signed: a person who uses something cheap and never does C/P logs or full stop logs).

I wasn't aware actually. But if there is anything important that needs attention i'll generally add a NM log or email the CO direct. I believe that I can add an offline log but then, I think, I would still have to edit it on my phone and I prefer to type using a fullsize keyboard.

[+purple_pineapple]

Don't phone apps have the option to do field notes or save offline so you can adjust your comments before logging live? There is no necessity to do an immediate log.

 

I believe all the phone apps have the facility to upload field notes rather than logs. We do this if we ever log on the iphone (which is rare!) Unfortunately, the default action of the iphone app (I don't know about the others) is to upload a 'proper' online log, and you have to change the settings to use field notes. To my mind, this is (ahem) bottom about face, as it just encourages the poor logging. Personally, I'd rather the option to send online logs was completely taken out of the Apps, and the only option was field notes (at least people might sit and write longer logs back home on the PC). Failing that, make the default behaviour a field note...

 

I wonder if this has been suggested on the main forums? Can't be bothered to look at the moment, I'm supposed to be working!

 

Dave

[+Bear and Ragged]

Part of the fun of caching is the journey, not just finding the cache.

It's not "I found this box" "I found this box as well"

 

It's "On the way to this cache I saw..." "Found a ... on the way to this cache" "Just after replacing this cache .... happened"

 

And surely, if doing a series of caches, the only way to write about the experience of the series is after you finished them all -found or DNF'd?

[+Simply Paul]

Are you sure the logs are blank, or could there be a secret message?

[+MartyBartfast]

 

Edited June 6, 2011 by MartyBartfast

[+The Red Duke]

As a CO I too hate blank logs. If a someone has gone to the trouble of placing a well thought out hide for your entertainment, then you should take the trouble to tell them about your experience, positive or otherwise.

 

As a finder of caches, I use a smartphone, with a geocaching app to save paper, but use a Garmin Summit to do the finding. I save field notes on the smartphone, email to home and edit them on the PC at home.

 

Why is it necessary to log a find immediately? I do for FTFs, to prevent others from rushing to GZ fruitlessly, but otherwise wait until I return home and can do it at my leisure.

[Raver Dave]

Why is it necessary to log a find immediately? I do for FTFs, to prevent others from rushing to GZ fruitlessly, but otherwise wait until I return home and can do it at my leisure.

 

My thoughts exactly apart from the FTF situation I just don't see the need in getting a log done in the field, wait until you get home and can type something more substantial.

[+NattyBooshka]

Why is it necessary to log a find immediately?

 

Well... I write real logs by iPhone... I NEVER TFTC, but I do like to do it straight away. Occasionally I edit a log later, if a cache is outstanding, I'll write an essay! I think I get the feel of the moment in my logs, I can be soaked, windswept or sweating cobs... yet at the moment of a find I'm happy. So I like to get that down straight away. I tried logging as a field note, but then the fact I HAVE to do extra on the mac is a pain.

 

I do for FTFs, to prevent others from rushing to GZ fruitlessly...

 

Why? Part of the buzz of grabbing a FTF is the not knowing... even as you have the cache in hand, opening the logbook and seeing it nice and blank. When I'm on the way to a new cache and somebody logs it, I get deflated as the email arrives. I still do the cache, so nothing is fruitless... but I think I'd rather feel the "am I?" moment even if beaten to it. So, conversely, for a FTF I post a field note and then publish when I get home. The only reason I can see for posting for a FTF is to stop people taking risks on the road, which they shouldn't be taking anyway... always drive safe.

 

On the main topic: I have introduced a group of 4 people with severe learning difficulties to the game... they play on iPhone, they log on iphone. They don't have broadband, they don't have GPSr and they struggle to remember the order of the letters in TFTC. They loved walking already and now twice a week they can go hunt treasure on their walking afternoons. They use iphone because it can give them just the nearest 10 traditional caches that they haven't found at any time they like. Writing more for them is almost impossible. So, sorry to say I'm responsible for some TFTC logs, and they may not even get that right all the time! I'm proud of it though.

 

As a CO, I like to know what people thought, or what they were doing that day... but I couldn't say I've ever lost any sleep over it. TFTC is a "thanks" I say "thanks" to shopkeepers, barmaids, taxi drivers... none of them have ever taken offence to this... It's not like "have a nice day" which I do find offensive as it's not meant most of the time, as one of my old T-shirts said, "I'd rather be told to f*&^ off by someone who meant it"

 

Blank logs... well, I used to not log at all, which must be worse I guess... but there are a lot who don't. Would you rather a blank "found it" so you know it's there or nothing at all, which is the alternative? I'm also pretty sure that one of my FTFs was already found but not logged as I saw someone near it as I arrived, a familiar someone that I've seen near other caches. I also know for fact that I've found caches and not logged them, leaving them to be FTF'd again.

 

We all play in different ways, and I think we should all just accept it.

Edited June 6, 2011 by NattyBooshka

[+Bear and Ragged]

YWFTC

[+MBFace]

Are you sure the logs are blank, or could there be a secret message?

Posting a secret message would require a bit of effort

[+MBFace]

I say "thanks" to shopkeepers, barmaids, taxi drivers...

Who are being paid for doing their jobs .....

 

When, as has been commented on in another forum, people apparently can't be bothered to write anything on a cache like Scafell Pike (not one of ours) it does make you wonder what's the point in placing them.

[+hitch1113]

finding a cache is like sex

the earth dont move all the time

only when it does are people going to have summat to say

 

some caches just make up the numbers some are really challenging

the game needs all sorts so newbies like me can get to grip with things

 

as long as its not all wham bam thankyou mam

Edited June 6, 2011 by hitch1113

[Raver Dave]

I do for FTFs, to prevent others from rushing to GZ fruitlessly...

 

Why? Part of the buzz of grabbing a FTF is the not knowing... even as you have the cache in hand, opening the logbook and seeing it nice and blank. When I'm on the way to a new cache and somebody logs it, I get deflated as the email arrives. I still do the cache, so nothing is fruitless... but I think I'd rather feel the "am I?" moment even if beaten to it. So, conversely, for a FTF I post a field note and then publish when I get home. The only reason I can see for posting for a FTF is to stop people taking risks on the road, which they shouldn't be taking anyway... always drive safe.

 

I for one certainly like to know if a FTF is still an option before I run after one, money is tight so to rush out after a FTF only to find it had gone before I had even left the house is annoying as I've wasted fuel, if I had known I would have left the cache for when I had more time spare and could have done it and several others in one trip.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Raver Dave

[+GAZ]

Are you sure the logs are blank, or could there be a secret message?

Posting a secret message would require a bit of effort

 

I have a cache like that! Blatant cache advertising GC25M55!!!!

[+NattyBooshka]

I say "thanks" to shopkeepers, barmaids, taxi drivers...

Who are being paid for doing their jobs .....

 

When, as has been commented on in another forum, people apparently can't be bothered to write anything on a cache like Scafell Pike (not one of ours) it does make you wonder what's the point in placing them.

 

I also say thanks to lots of people not being paid for the reason for gratitude. Amateur status is not what it once was I know... But many depend on people willing to give and not receive... As indeed is geocaching, it dies without people willing to give to it. Am I grateful? Yes. Does that mean I have to thank them in a way that meets their requirements? No.

 

If I say TFTC, which I don't think I ever have, I mean thanks. If I really hate a cache I'd say so.

 

The requirements are to sign the log and then post a find... The people that some seem to have a problem with are doing just that. Bare minimum. Just like the people who hide magnets on metalwork, with the ground littered... They're doing the bare minimum too.

 

I think it's great that there's no longer a £100 "entry fee" and people just discover an app and give it a go. We who've been around a while can't push our standards on these people, just like those reducing the European film canister mountain can't make me go and find them. If a newbie downloads the app onto their phone and goes solo to their first find, how do they know what's expected of them by the dinosaurs? If I was that bothered by blank or TFTC logs, I'd filter them out and so not see them.

[+Bear and Ragged]

In years to come, when you look back at the list of finds, how are you going to remember anything about the cache, or your day of caching, if all the log says is:

 

TFTC

 

or

 

 

It does say, on the front page of the site:

Share

Share your experience with other treasure seekers.

[+GeekyMummy]

Hi,

 

As a newbie I am glad I have read this post. It had never occurred to me how important the log comments were. I have been so engrossed in trying to get to grips with everything that it had never occurred to me how important the logs were to CO.

 

Fortunately though I think I may be ok, I always read logs of a cache before attempting and having seen others comments it has encouraged me to write more. Whilst I do sometimes leave a fairly bland log, if it was a cache we loved doing I have said as much.

 

I will pass this info on to my group of newbie geocachers (friends I have introduced to geocaching) as I know that some of them have been very brief, in part because we are all so time poor, but I can see why making that extra effort is important.

 

I wonder if adding something in the description of the cache to ask people for detailed logs would be a good idea? Just a thought.

[+NickandAliandEliza]

In years to come, when you look back at the list of finds, how are you going to remember anything about the cache, or your day of caching, if all the log says is:

 

TFTC

 

or

 

 

It does say, on the front page of the site:

Share

Share your experience with other treasure seekers.

 

You've hit the nail squarely on the head here.

[+The Red Duke]

Why is it necessary to log a find immediately? I do for FTFs, to prevent others from rushing to GZ fruitlessly, but otherwise wait until I return home and can do it at my leisure.

 

My thoughts exactly apart from the FTF situation I just don't see the need in getting a log done in the field, wait until you get home and can type something more substantial.

Well it is only a brief log in the field, but when I get home I delete it and post a more thorough log.

[+Happy Humphrey]

I agree that on a selfish level it's slightly annoying to see blank logs on your cache. I've had a few of them.

 

But as cache owners, we have no right to dictate what type of log entry is written; so a blank one is perfectly fine. Perhaps the cacher merely likes to record which caches they found. In any case, it's not our business what preference the finder has for log recording. It's their record after all.

 

So if a cacher writes "7th of 15 today" (or nothing at all) it's just a note to himself. It might be nicer to see some observations on the cache experience, but to many people it's all about going out and enjoying the open air, visiting new places and so on. So if they find keeping a more detailed diary of the day rather tedious I don't see why they should be pressurised into doing this just to satisfy the cache setter's need for praise.

 

My preference is that I write individual logs for all caches (even in a big series). But I respect the right of others to have a different approach.

 

I don't set caches as a favour for others. In my case, it's because I enjoy setting them. So if a side effect is that I get to hear about some interesting experiences from cache seekers, then that's great; but if I just hear that someone found a cache of mine, then that's fine too. I'm horrified that someone could be so rude as to contact a cacher and suggest that his blank log is unsatisfactory, or that it might be deleted. How to put someone off the game altogether!

 

Having said all that, there may be cases where cachers don't realise that it's worth writing a few words and perhaps the log entry box could encourage this a bit more (whilst making it clear that it's entirely optional). They may not realise that some cache owners are avid readers of log entries.

[+currykev]

To be honest, I usually delete the find logs for my caches without reading them.

I'm more concerened with the DNF and NM logs.

The game is evolving and progressing either with a push by Groundspeak or not.

No point moaning I guess.

But then the forums would be a lot emptier if we didn't.

[+Towcester Pirates]

I'd just like to say as a cellphone cacher that I always leave a reasonable log. I copy paste an entry that states 'In field will edit later. TFTC' Then I go and write the proper log over the next couple of days via my computer.

 

I also regularly email CO's if they have done a particularly wonderful cache or if, for instance, the cache is going to need attention soon. I think that just because some people who use cellphones are lazy doesn't mean that all cellphonme users are. People can just as easilly post C+P logs or "." ones over the internet. Who use something cheap like an etrex or even an in-car satnav.

 

 

That is very considerate of you, however, are you aware, that unless you completely delete your log and re-do it, the cache owner does not get an email showing your adjustment. For those of us that have hundreds of caches out there, we cannot possibly remember which cache page was logged by which cacher to then have to go into the cache page to read their proper logs to make sure everything is OK.

 

Don't phone apps have the option to do field notes or save offline so you can adjust your comments before logging live? There is no necessity to do an immediate log.

 

It is always nice to receive a personal email about your cache, nice touch!

 

(signed: a person who uses something cheap and never does C/P logs or full stop logs).

 

As an Iphone Cacher i would also like to add that i always aim to leave a complete log comment. on saying that, for some caches there isnt really all that much to say! if i am out in ana area and decide to go and locate a cache and it turns out to be a nano stuck to a street sign i dont really feel inspired to write too much, but i always write something.

 

I feel that logging in the field is actually a benefit to Geocaching - especially when trackables are involved. i can do things realy time and after a day out in the glorious countryside of the UK i dont have to send hours sat at home on the computer logging finds - i can be having a beer or a BBQ instead.

[+Bear and Ragged]

I feel that logging in the field is actually a benefit to Geocaching - especially when trackables are involved.

So, I don't log from the field, I leave a TB in a cache and get home to log the cache and 'Drop' the TB. Only to find the next cacher has a phone and has 'Grabbed' the TB from me and then 'Dropped' it in the next cache they found...

[+redsox_mark]

For me, it's not about feeling entitled to a log as a cache owner. And the finder has the right to write as little or as much as they want in their log.

 

For me, it's about setting expectations for new users, and that "sharing your experiences online" is good for the game.

 

If you log from a PC, it tells you comments are required. Sure you can just put one character.. but telling you it is required encourages thinking about what should be entered.

 

If you log from a phone, and the comments are not required, it sends a message that comments are optional, not required.

 

That will lead to less people "sharing their experiences", which I don't think is good for the game.

[+drdick&vick]

If I log from my phone, normally when I will not have computer access for a day or two, I have set my signature line to read 'Logged from my Android phone more to follow' and I always make a point of sitting down and writing some more even if it is just to say I enjoyed the walk or something else mundane.

[+eusty]

if i am out in ana area and decide to go and locate a cache and it turns out to be a nano stuck to a street sign i dont really feel inspired to write too much, but i always write something.

Which is how I feel really!

 

If I've had a good trek and had to really hunt to find a cache I will jot down a few reminders on my GPSr and write more when I upload the field notes later.

If it's just a quick C&D nano then there isn't much to note..... "nice easy find TFTC" is about all you can say!!

[+Towcester Pirates]

I feel that logging in the field is actually a benefit to Geocaching - especially when trackables are involved.

So, I don't log from the field, I leave a TB in a cache and get home to log the cache and 'Drop' the TB. Only to find the next cacher has a phone and has 'Grabbed' the TB from me and then 'Dropped' it in the next cache they found...

 

if you had dropped the TB it in real time (in the field) to begin with - problem solved

Edited June 7, 2011 by TeamGeo15

[+gazooks]

As a CO I am not looking for praise as someone suggested - I just think that if I put out a fun cache I'd like to hear from finders what they thought of it - did they enjoy it etc.

 

I have a few less fun caches and don't expect too much of a log entry for them, but I have a series of secret agent caches that invlove codes and puzzles and the listing is in a 'Your mission is...' type style.

The majority of finders 'report back' in a similar style with some imaginative mission logs - I love reading these as they have entered into the spirit of the cache. A blank log or TFTC doesn't cut it for me in these cases.

I am aware that everyone plays the game in their own way but as someone else said whats the point of putting them out then if you get nothing back from them.

As a CO I can play the game my way as well.

 

I might ask blank log owners to write a little something else but as yet I have not deleted any that have not.

[+gazooks]

if i am out in ana area and decide to go and locate a cache and it turns out to be a nano stuck to a street sign i dont really feel inspired to write too much, but i always write something.

Which is how I feel really!

 

If I've had a good trek and had to really hunt to find a cache I will jot down a few reminders on my GPSr and write more when I upload the field notes later.

If it's just a quick C&D nano then there isn't much to note..... "nice easy find TFTC" is about all you can say!!

 

I agree - and I've come across the odd series like that as well. Sometimes TFTC is a bit like leaving a 1p tip in a resturant

[+TheAardvarkFamily]

And this one is even more secret?

[+Woodbury Walker]

I have just discovered a cacher logging my caches using a date before they were published!

 

:anitongue: :anitongue:

[+Bear and Ragged]

I have just discovered a cacher logging my caches using a date before they were published!

 

:anitongue: :anitongue:

Mixing the US/UK date format?

Or armchair logging?

[+NattyBooshka]

Blank logging... Maybe blank descriptions and hints are a way to fight back

[+Pieman]

I recently did a cache which states that if you want to see this cache archived post two consecutive blank logs. I think that's fair enough. I wouldn't delete a blank log and actually received my first this week, but I think it is a bit rude.