FTF Etiquette

[+Zatahra]

Got a Question sent to me the other day:

 

"Hey Z, We have cachers in-town that have loads of free time (retired, unemployed, or something like that) that race to be FTF on every cache. They get their first, sign the log, and claim the FTF. Although irritating, I have no problem with that - they were there first. On the flip side, our local group recognizes our cachers milestones and put out special commemorative caches for them (usually at 1000, 2000, etc). We do that so they can hit thier milestone with thier commemorative cache - as a tribute to thier hard work. IMHO, nothing is worse than a FTF hound grabbing a cache meant for someone else. The rest of us understand and offer the courtesy of letting them find it first, and to date it has not been a problem. But I sure would give coordinates early based on this type of cache (but this type only) to offset the FTF hogs that are out there. What do you think?"

 

I advised I was ok in giving out the coords early in this instance only, and advised maybe having an event to celebrate the milestone and presenting the coords to them (only) at the meeting, then publishing the cache after the meeting. That way they get their milestone cache, and the FTF hounds can claim "FTF" after it publishes. Any thoughts?

[+mpilchfamily]

Generally i find that commemorative caches like that are left unpublished till the honorie is able to find it first. The cache was placed for them after all.

[GOF and Bacall]

Got a Question sent to me the other day:

 

"Hey Z, We have cachers in-town that have loads of free time (retired, unemployed, or something like that) that race to be FTF on every cache. They get their first, sign the log, and claim the FTF. Although irritating, I have no problem with that - they were there first. On the flip side, our local group recognizes our cachers milestones and put out special commemorative caches for them (usually at 1000, 2000, etc). We do that so they can hit thier milestone with thier commemorative cache - as a tribute to thier hard work. IMHO, nothing is worse than a FTF hound grabbing a cache meant for someone else. The rest of us understand and offer the courtesy of letting them find it first, and to date it has not been a problem. But I sure would give coordinates early based on this type of cache (but this type only) to offset the FTF hogs that are out there. What do you think?"

 

I advised I was ok in giving out the coords early in this instance only, and advised maybe having an event to celebrate the milestone and presenting the coords to them (only) at the meeting, then publishing the cache after the meeting. That way they get their milestone cache, and the FTF hounds can claim "FTF" after it publishes. Any thoughts?

 

I could release the coordinates to my cache in many ways. There are other listing sites. I could email folks I know. I could take out an add in the paper. I keep saying that some day I am going to advertise a new cache on bumper stickers. Try not to take it all so seriously.

 

Oh, and congratulations on being FTP in this thread.

[knowschad]

I would agree with you. I have done it, and have had it done for me. Except, I was already out caching when friends emailed me the coords for my 1000th find tribute, and somebody else got FTF on it. It was actually more of a disappointment to the good folks that put the cache out for me, than it was for me. In my opinion, FTF hounds should hold off on obvious tribute caches, as a matter of courtesy, but obviously that is not enforceable.

[+KNAPAHOLIC]

I would agree with you. I have done it, and have had it done for me. Except, I was already out caching when friends emailed me the coords for my 1000th find tribute, and somebody else got FTF on it. It was actually more of a disappointment to the good folks that put the cache out for me, than it was for me. In my opinion, FTF hounds should hold off on obvious tribute caches, as a matter of courtesy, but obviously that is not enforceable.

While it's not enforcable, we usually have a blurb on the cache page about giving the honoree a chance to find it. We had one that went untouched for three days, till the honoree found it. Made me smile to see that.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I find it quite silly to hide a cache,hae it published, and expect no one to find it until the honoree does. Yes, I've seen it done. I think it's silly. When I download GPX files, I seldom read the cache pages. (Yes. that can make for strange happenings.)

[+StarBrand]

FTF is whoever finds it first by whatever means are at hand. It is a fact to me not an award. Since not everybody 'plays' ftf, even if you have rules, you can't expect everybody to follow them.

[AZcachemeister]

I kind of wonder how the honoree would look at this.

Do they absolutely, positively need/want to be the FTF on the cache, or perhaps they couldn't give two dead AAs about it?

Would they want to try for the FTF in a fair race...would they feel cheated if they were spoon-fed the co-ordinates pre-publication?

 

It is always very cool when the local community comes together to allow the honoree the (dubious) 'honor' of making the FTF, but there will always (probably) be someone in the area who really isn't a part of that 'local community'.

 

If the honoree makes the find as their milestone, do they also need to be the FTF?

[+Walts Hunting]

Etiquette around here is whom ever wins the knife fight gets to sign first.

 

If you give the cords to someone it is kind of a bogus ftf isn't it. I mean if no one else is looking for it there is no challenge

Edited June 2, 2011 by Walts Hunting

[GOF and Bacall]

Etiquette around here is whom ever wins the knife fight gets to sign first.

 

If you give the cords to someone it is kind of a bogus ftf isn't it. I mean if no one else is looking for it there is no challenge

 

Just like you west coasters to bring a knife to a gunfight.

 

That assumes that the hider and the recipient of the coordinates are playing the FTF game. For them it may just be a simple fact with no care for competition. Now, if they are logging with some kind of end zone dance kinda log then sure, it's kinda lame.

[+WRASTRO]

Etiquette around here is whom ever wins the knife fight gets to sign first.

 

If you give the cords to someone it is kind of a bogus ftf isn't it. I mean if no one else is looking for it there is no challenge

The FTF is not the "honor" in most cases. The "honor" is having the cache placed to acknowledge the particular cacher. The icing on the cake is when the local caching community comes together and waits for the honoree to find the cache before going and hunting it. I really like it when the local FTF hounds can manage to put the brakes on and not rush out to grab the new meat. I shake my head when they can't. After all, it is a game. One more FTF really shouldn't be more important than letting someone have a chance to enjoy being recognized by their community.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I got involved in a brief exchange of emails not long ago after I left a log critical of a cacher who FTF'd a tribute cache for someone else. (FWIW, positions were explained, logs were edited, and I think everyone left on peaceful terms in the end.)

 

There aren't rules of FTF so you can't break them, but I would think the etiquette of Tribute Caches would seem pretty clear (much like everyone knows the birthday boy/girl gets first choice of slice in the birthday cake). But as there are clearly some cachers who don't realize this etiquette or willfully ignore it IMO a Tribute Cache is the one instance where it is fair to give coordinates early to someone to ensure they are FTF.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Joshism

[+Flintstone5611]

I kind of wonder how the honoree would look at this.

Do they absolutely, positively need/want to be the FTF on the cache, or perhaps they couldn't give two dead AAs about it?

Would they want to try for the FTF in a fair race...would they feel cheated if they were spoon-fed the co-ordinates pre-publication?

 

Interesting point, we are talking about comemorating a number of finds. If you were marking an FTF milestone that would be different.

 

If the honoree makes the find as their milestone, do they also need to be the FTF?

 

That is the real question. I did a special cache on our 1st anniversary for the cachers that introduced us to it. I never thought about them having to get the FTF. I thought they would appreciate the gesture.

[+Zatahra]

As a recipient of one of these caches myself, I was honored by the cache but would have been disappointed if some other cacher raced over there to beat me to it. I mean, do ya gotta be first on every cache? I have to go with the birthday cake scenario, the first piece should go to the "birthday-boy" and is just common courtesy. I gave up my FTF seeking ways when I heard a new cacher complain they have never got a FTF due to a few "always ready" individuals. That put it in a new light for me, and I usually wait a bit before I go after it to give the newbies a shot at it. But I tell them not to get discouraged by the few selfish cachers that are out there. I mean, c'mon people - share the good feelings!

[Clan Riffster]

I have to go with the birthday cake scenario, the first piece should go to the "birthday-boy"

I like this analogy. While everyone can acknowledge that once a cache is published it becomes fair game for everyone, I think it's kewl to hold off until the honoree finds it. My solution is to simply withhold publication till they find it. That way there is no race, no challenge, no competition. Just an ammo can sitting patiently out in the wilds. My most blatant example of this is http://coord.info/GC29BKQ. While most of you won't be able to view the listing, the Reviewers amongst can see that it was hidden sometime between May 28th and June 13, 2010. (The cache page was created 05/28/10) I performed a wedding ceremony for a caching couple on Memorial Day last year, and hid this in honor of their nuptials. The Bride underwent cancer treatment, and a side effect of the chemo was that her stamina was shot. She's working her way back to being able to hunt this, which involves an 8 mile paddle. It'll stay in stasis until they do find it.

[+Ike 13]

I've seen this done and usually the cache page just asks you to wait a day to give the honoree a chance. I think giving them the coords in advance is okay. BTW even if the person is 10th to find they still can claim FTF.

 

I would like to point out one thing if you start doing honorary cache for every local who hits 1000 you better make sure you don't miss anyone. The group who was doing this locally skipped over me and I've been left wondering what I did to upset them.

[+luvvinbird]

I'm curious about tribute caches and FTF's. Both are contrived and have no meaning except to those who actively participate in them. When I download a PQ into my GPS I just start going after the caches with no intentional malice or disregard for "special" caches. We already have "Premium Member Only" caches, which offend some people. Perhaps we should have a formally recognized "Tribute Cache" so that only those involved can participate.

[+Flintstone5611]

I mean, do ya gotta be first on every cache?

 

No, I don't have to, but somebody is gonna!

 

I have to go with the birthday cake scenario, the first piece should go to the "birthday-boy" and is just common courtesy.

 

That only applies to the people invited to the party. If someone was walking by and was offered free cake (because it was posted on a website, of course) and then got the first piece, would it be wrong to tell him "bad form" since it wasn't intended for them? I could understand hosting an event for them or giving the coords before it was published, but you might be asking too much to tell everyone to care as much as you do about someone they don't know.

[+Flintstone5611]

I'm curious about .... FTF's. {They} are contrived and have no meaning

 

BLASPHEMY!!

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I keep saying that some day I am going to advertise a new cache on bumper stickers. Try not to take it all so seriously.

 

I like that idea. Do you mind if I steal it?

[+briansnat]

When a cache is published, it's available for everybody to hunt. If you want to dictate who finds a cache and when, simply don't publish it or submit it after the designated party has made the find.

[+bflentje]

But I tell them not to get discouraged by the few selfish cachers that are out there. I mean, c'mon people - share the good feelings!

 

Selfish cachers? I could turn the table and ask why someone feels the need to be honored with a tribute cache and then be FTF to boot. Sounds a bit selfish.. or, maybe self righteous.

[+luvvinbird]

But I tell them not to get discouraged by the few selfish cachers that are out there. I mean, c'mon people - share the good feelings!

 

Selfish cachers? I could turn the table and ask why someone feels the need to be honored with a tribute cache and then be FTF to boot. Sounds a bit selfish.. or, maybe self righteous.

I totally agree. The whole idea of a tribute cache is a little too hokey for me. If I was on the verge of my 1000th. cache I'd want to get it the way I got the other 999, in an open and competitive environment. Having a cache artificially manufactured for me is a turn off. This is reminiscent of the finale of the Amazing Race. You know, where everyone stands around and applauds the winner....cor-ney!

[GOF and Bacall]

I keep saying that some day I am going to advertise a new cache on bumper stickers. Try not to take it all so seriously.

 

I like that idea. Do you mind if I steal it?

 

Have at it. Just be sure to let us know how it goes.

 

You may be interested in a couple of other ideas I had. They involve QR codes. QR code stickers plastered all over the place. Posted on the bulletin board at the supermarket. Codes on cards left in other caches or in those coupon trading boxes at places like the laundromat.

Edited June 2, 2011 by GOF and Bacall

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I keep saying that some day I am going to advertise a new cache on bumper stickers. Try not to take it all so seriously.

 

I like that idea. Do you mind if I steal it?

 

Have at it. Just be sure to let us know how it goes.

 

As I rolled the idea around in my head, I think I will print up a t-shirt that I will wear while out caching, at events, etc. Make sure I post pictures in my logs while I am wearing it. And see what happens.

 

But if this cache is any example, I don't have high hopes of success.

[+bflentje]

But I tell them not to get discouraged by the few selfish cachers that are out there. I mean, c'mon people - share the good feelings!

 

Selfish cachers? I could turn the table and ask why someone feels the need to be honored with a tribute cache and then be FTF to boot. Sounds a bit selfish.. or, maybe self righteous.

I totally agree. The whole idea of a tribute cache is a little too hokey for me. If I was on the verge of my 1000th. cache I'd want to get it the way I got the other 999, in an open and competitive environment. Having a cache artificially manufactured for me is a turn off. This is reminiscent of the finale of the Amazing Race. You know, where everyone stands around and applauds the winner....cor-ney!

 

Two tribute caches were put out in my name, one for 4000 finds and the other as a tribute to some coffin incident. In both cases I had to race to be FTF just like everyone else. I think I scored 1/2. I am fine either way. I was flattered at the tributes but not self righteous enough to get bent out of shape if I wasn't FTF. I guess I don't feel the need to have my ego stroked.

[+SooMukwas]

Hardly any etiquette anywhere else these days. Why expect it in a game?

 

Going for an FTF is only fun if there is a good prize for the FTF'er.

 

And lately, in this area, it pays to wait for someone else to find a new cache first as a lot of new ones aren't even there so the first 3 or 4 cachers have all DNF'd.

FTF'ers have actually save me alot of time and resources, since I'll know whether the cache is there or not before I go looking for it.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I keep saying that some day I am going to advertise a new cache on bumper stickers. Try not to take it all so seriously.

 

I like that idea. Do you mind if I steal it?

 

Have at it. Just be sure to let us know how it goes.

 

You may be interested in a couple of other ideas I had. They involve QR codes. QR code stickers plastered all over the place. Posted on the bulletin board at the supermarket. Codes on cards left in other caches or in those coupon trading boxes at places like the laundromat.

 

I'll combine the two ideas: I'll print up a QR code iron-on transfer for the t-shirt. And then wear the t-shirt while out and about caching.

[+the4dirtydogs]

Hardly any etiquette anywhere else these days. Why expect it in a game?

 

Going for an FTF is only fun if there is a good prize for the FTF'er.

 

And lately, in this area, it pays to wait for someone else to find a new cache first as a lot of new ones aren't even there so the first 3 or 4 cachers have all DNF'd.

FTF'ers have actually save me alot of time and resources, since I'll know whether the cache is there or not before I go looking for it.

One reason why I check who the CO is before I go running out of the house. I wish the notifications would show who the CO is so you don't have to open the cache page to see.

[+Scubasonic]

Hardly any etiquette anywhere else these days. Why expect it in a game?

 

Going for an FTF is only fun if there is a good prize for the FTF'er.

 

And lately, in this area, it pays to wait for someone else to find a new cache first as a lot of new ones aren't even there so the first 3 or 4 cachers have all DNF'd.

FTF'ers have actually save me alot of time and resources, since I'll know whether the cache is there or not before I go looking for it.

 

Boy that is so true took my 3 tries on a FTF 10 miles from my home just the other day cause the CO did not have the right coordinates till the 3rd time all about 60 FT off each time. But he did finally get it right after I gave him the actual coordinates when I found it.

 

SS

[+TerraViators]

Having placed several caches for friends, IMO, folks should wait for the honoree to find the cache. However, it can't be enforced, so you just hope everyone plays along. A few times, other buddies to the cacher have met the cacher at the cache to enjoy the fun.

[+Zatahra]

I mean, do ya gotta be first on every cache?

 

No, I don't have to, but somebody is gonna!

 

But is it worth tarnishing a new cachers view of his fellow cachers? It wasn't to me.

 

I have to go with the birthday cake scenario, the first piece should go to the "birthday-boy" and is just common courtesy.

 

That only applies to the people invited to the party. If someone was walking by and was offered free cake (because it was posted on a website, of course) and then got the first piece, would it be wrong to tell him "bad form" since it wasn't intended for them? I could understand hosting an event for them or giving the coords before it was published, but you might be asking too much to tell everyone to care as much as you do about someone they don't know.

 

Now, based on that, someone has already cut the cake and is handing out pieces, So I guess the birthday boy (say, Dave) already has his piece. How about getting an email saying "Free cake for Dave's birthday" and someone beats Dave to the cake and helped themselves? Looks like it comes back to common courtesy, and lack thereof. But that's just me, and I'm a small fish in a big pond.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Zatahra

[+Coldgears]

I never go for first to finds, I like to cache when I want to, not the moment a cache is published. Rushing out the door and stopping what ever I'm doing at the moment is not fun. Here's where the issue arises, if I'm out geocaching and one of the caches in the local park or where-ever i'm at has this cache, I'm still going to look for it. Not for the FTF, but because I'm geocaching in the area.

[+DanOCan]

I have been involved in the creation of some caches which are tributes to other cachers and it never even crossed our minds to wait for the honouree to get there first. After all, if they are doing it for a milestone does it matter if they are first, second or eighth to find it?

 

If the FTF really means that much, give the coordinates to the honouree before publication but I say once it is published it is fair game.

[AZcachemeister]

...and nobody has ever placed a tribute cache for me, either.

 

Not that I'm bitter or anything...

[+Ambient_Skater]

If it's listed on geocaching.com, it's fair game. If I saw a note on a cache page asking cachers not to look for the cache until the designated finder has found it, I'm not sure I'd honor it.

[+dfx]

When a cache is published, it's available for everybody to hunt. If you want to dictate who finds a cache and when, simply don't publish it or submit it after the designated party has made the find.

 

If it's listed on geocaching.com, it's fair game. If I saw a note on a cache page asking cachers not to look for the cache until the designated finder has found it, I'm not sure I'd honor it.

 

... and this is exactly why I think it's perfectly OK to send the coordinates and other details to the honoree ahead of time. They can be FTF then, and someone else could also be FTF if they want to. Whatever.

[+luvvinbird]

When a cache is published, it's available for everybody to hunt. If you want to dictate who finds a cache and when, simply don't publish it or submit it after the designated party has made the find.

 

If it's listed on geocaching.com, it's fair game. If I saw a note on a cache page asking cachers not to look for the cache until the designated finder has found it, I'm not sure I'd honor it.

 

... and this is exactly why I think it's perfectly OK to send the coordinates and other details to the honoree ahead of time. They can be FTF then, and someone else could also be FTF if they want to. Whatever.

Yeah, but seriously. Would you honestly think that was a "hard earned" cache like all the others you worked so hard to get? Is that the way you'd really like to get a significant milestone? Why don't they just hang it on your front door? Or not bother doing anything and you can "pretend" that you found it.

[+WRASTRO]

When a cache is published, it's available for everybody to hunt. If you want to dictate who finds a cache and when, simply don't publish it or submit it after the designated party has made the find.

 

If it's listed on geocaching.com, it's fair game. If I saw a note on a cache page asking cachers not to look for the cache until the designated finder has found it, I'm not sure I'd honor it.

 

... and this is exactly why I think it's perfectly OK to send the coordinates and other details to the honoree ahead of time. They can be FTF then, and someone else could also be FTF if they want to. Whatever.

Yeah, but seriously. Would you honestly think that was a "hard earned" cache like all the others you worked so hard to get? Is that the way you'd really like to get a significant milestone? Why don't they just hang it on your front door? Or not bother doing anything and you can "pretend" that you found it.

Sending the coordinates is not showing them the hide. It is giving them advance notice of the coordinates prior to publication. They still have to go find the cache just like everyone else. Milestone? Meh. I don't plan them but I keep track of them for my own caching history.

[+niraD]

If the FTF really means that much, give the coordinates to the honouree before publication but I say once it is published it is fair game.

FWIW, another approach I've seen used is to make the tribute cache a multi-cache or puzzle cache that the honoree will find easy, but that everyone else will find much more difficult.

[+dfx]

Yeah, but seriously. Would you honestly think that was a "hard earned" cache like all the others you worked so hard to get? Is that the way you'd really like to get a significant milestone? Why don't they just hang it on your front door? Or not bother doing anything and you can "pretend" that you found it.

Sending the coordinates is not showing them the hide. It is giving them advance notice of the coordinates prior to publication. They still have to go find the cache just like everyone else. Milestone?

 

Yup, this. If that's what they wanna do, anyway. Just saying that I don't see anything wrong with it, since it's the only guarantee for an FTF.

[+ipodguy]

Why is anybody surprised that people will run out to FTF a cache even if it isn't intended for them?

 

FTF hunts aren't really part of the game right? It's not acknowledged by GS as part of the game, right? Geocaching is not supposed to be competitive, right?

 

Then why does GS acknowledge FTF by selling geocoins in their store? They're encouraging it without really saying so.

[jholly]

Why is anybody surprised that people will run out to FTF a cache even if it isn't intended for them?

 

FTF hunts aren't really part of the game right? It's not acknowledged by GS as part of the game, right? Geocaching is not supposed to be competitive, right?

 

Then why does GS acknowledge FTF by selling geocoins in their store? They're encouraging it without really saying so.

Because they can make money selling those coins. Doh!

[+jellis]

Why is anybody surprised that people will run out to FTF a cache even if it isn't intended for them?

 

FTF hunts aren't really part of the game right? It's not acknowledged by GS as part of the game, right? Geocaching is not supposed to be competitive, right?

 

Then why does GS acknowledge FTF by selling geocoins in their store? They're encouraging it without really saying so.

I go after FTFs but not by trying to kill myself for them. But I am curious how cachers feel about cachers who have friends or create dummy accounts to place caches to possibly be FTF on those caches. And I'm not talking about a few I am talking about 100s or more.

[+Ambient_Skater]

They're encouraging it without really saying so.

Through a geocoin? I don't think so. They're just looking to produce coins with themes that'll appeal to the geocaching community. That is, coins people will want to buy.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

I go after FTFs but not by trying to kill myself for them. But I am curious how cachers feel about cachers who have friends or create dummy accounts to place caches to possibly be FTF on those caches. And I'm not talking about a few I am talking about 100s or more.

 

I would say they need to get a hobby. what a sad life they must have if FTF is their way of validation.

[+vincenzosi]

In my general area (the Bronx) we have the Old Croton Aqueduct Tribute Trail which honors the "best" in the area as far as geocaching. Last week one for Hallycat popped up. I was home, bored, could make it easily (it was at most 10 minutes away) and I would've had it, but I left it there because it was a tribute for her and she was meant to have the honor of getting it first. Bothered me a little because it would've easily been my first FTF, but I understood (without it even being told to me) that this was for her moment, not for my gratification.

 

So I left it there. And when she found it, I felt great.

 

Honestly, if you think that "it's fair game once it's published" you're kinda missing the point. Of course it is, and nothing can "stop" you from going to grab it; but I'd seriously question your character if you go after what is obviously a tribute and sign it before the honoree.

[+A & J Tooling]

Okay, I confess, I just about killed myself going after my FTF (just about didn't stop at a stop sign and getting broadsided by a semi). Once I got it, the rush was over. Don't really care about getting any more.

 

If a cache is dedicated to one person, give them the co-ordinates before publishing. Problem solved.

[+TerraViators]

I find it quite silly to hide a cache,hae it published, and expect no one to find it until the honoree does. Yes, I've seen it done. I think it's silly. When I download GPX files, I seldom read the cache pages. (Yes. that can make for strange happenings.)

and....you could put a couple of qurters in there so the FTF can also use it to buy a soda.

[+TerraViators]

Z, you and I had this conversation at the event a couple of weeks ago. I agree. Give the coords to the honoree beforehand. You might even ask the local FTF hound if they would mind waiting or at least be there and wait for the honoree to arrive.