Do we need a "Carrot" to seek ECs?

[+Flintstone5611]

I am starting this thread to discuss the "need" for a reward system. Or more so, why people want to show how "awesome" they are by advertising how many EC finds they have.

 

I am opening it up to criticism on the advice of TerryDad2 from another thread. It is worth dicussing.

 

Personally I am a huge fan of a reward system based on finds and/or hides. I love adding "flair" to my profile page and like the satisfaction of reaching public goals. What about everyone else?

[+t4e]

mygeocachingprofile has something along those lines that you can put on your profile Edited May 30, 2011 by t4e

[+dfx]

Isn't the earthcache masters program exactly that?

[+Flintstone5611]

Yup it definitely is! But there are some that follow these forums that think it is an absurd idea. I wanted to accomodate a thread for people to discuss it. Take a look at my profile you will see that I am a big fan of this kind of stuff.

[cezanne]

Yup it definitely is! But there are some that follow these forums that think it is an absurd idea.

 

If I am one of those, let me state that I never said that the EC masters program is an absurd idea.

 

From my point of view your question is ill-posed. We need to drink and eat to survive. We do not need to go for caches and certainly we do not

need any sort of reward programs for caching. It is a proven fact that for many cachers icons, badges, souvenirs etc are important aspects in their

approach to caching. My original intent was to ask a very specific question as to why so many cachers are excited if a new level in the EC masters program is

announced that simply requires to have found 50 ECs (with no additional question).

 

I do not have any problem with others enjoying things that I do not enjoy and that I do not understand. What I do not like at all, however, is this

predominancy of performance and numbers all over geocaching. A cacher who has found 50 ECs is not a better cacher than one who has found 5. The same is true for the

number of hidden caches. I do not appreciate if cachers are divided up into classes according to their accomplishments and if that accomplishments are

judged on the basis of numbers. If I meet a cacher somewhere, he/she does not need to have hidden/found a certain number of caches to be taken serious by me and to

have a right to have his own opinion. I want to cache without being part of a competition. Somehow this gets more and more difficult. Nowadays even most events appear

to take some competition part.

 

A reward systems that only take into account numbers, encourages the cachers to prefer many short and fast caches to long ones and to split up caches that ought to be

one multi stage cache into several single stage caches (that's true for ECs and caches with containers alike) and I do not like this trend.

 

I wanted to accomodate a thread for people to discuss it.

 

I did not open a thread because I was told by private communication that the EC forums should not be used for questions of that type and that they do not

contribute to making ECs more enjoyful. That's why I refrained from opening a new thread.

 

Cezanne

Edited May 30, 2011 by cezanne

[+Flintstone5611]

You really have to stop splitting words. You agree that you are one of those, but want to make it clear that you never expressed it with those words.

 

You want to mention that you were told not to open a thread like this, but you are glad to contribute to it.

 

Have a little more integrity and stick to an opinion, don't "lawyer" your comments to appear like you respect all sides.

 

We are here to discuss why people like having a reward system in place. I am for the idea of using colourful representations to denote a level of achievement, since it can help others to aspire to these goals.

 

...this predominancy of performance and numbers all over geocaching. A cacher who has found 50 ECs is not a better cacher than one who has found 5. The same is true for the number of hidden caches. I do not appreciate if cachers are divided up into classes according to their accomplishments and if that accomplishments are judged on the basis of numbers.

 

How have you noticed this take place? There is a difference between racism and discrimination, one is opinion and one is action based on said opinion. You have discussed the opinion aspect, have you witnessed the action aspect of it?

[cezanne]

You really have to stop splitting words. You agree that you are one of those, but want to make it clear that you never expressed it with those words.

 

I agree that I wrote that I cannot understand why so many reacted with enthusiasm. I still cannot understand it. I do not call things absurd, however,

because I do not understand them. That's not splitting words.

 

You want to mention that you were told not to open a thread like this, but you are glad to contribute to it.

 

I never sad that I have been happy with what I have been asked for.

In my opinion, no fruitful discussion is possible if one restricts oneself just to the topics which appear to be welcome here.

The more controversial a discussion, the better in my opinion.

 

BTW: In this thread I am only answering a question you have asked. I have not asked a question here that I was asked not to ask.

 

 

...this predominancy of performance and numbers all over geocaching. A cacher who has found 50 ECs is not a better cacher than one who has found 5. The same is true for the number of hidden caches. I do not appreciate if cachers are divided up into classes according to their accomplishments and if that accomplishments are judged on the basis of numbers.

 

How have you noticed this take place? There is a difference between racism and discrimination, one is opinion and one is action based on said opinion. You have discussed the opinion aspect, have you witnessed the action aspect of it?

 

It happens all the time at events, in geocaching boards etc and it is one of the reasons why it so important for some cachers to reach certain numbers of found/hidden caches.

Have you never come across arguments like "with xx finds of type zz, you cannot have an opinion on caches of type zz" etc? (paraphrased version).

Whenever I ask cachers why it was important for them to e.g. quickly reach 100 finds, 1000 finds etc, the answer is something like that the rank on certain ranking lists influences how they are

treated by the community. If a cache with a small number of found caches logs a cache where he has helped in hiding it, he typically gets critized, if someone with 2000 finds is doing the same, almost no one is

commenting.

 

BTW: In some way you are using the same way of reasoning. I certainly have invested more time into the development of Earthcaches than many owners of Earthcaches as for translating several Earthcaches into English, I read a lot of supplementary material and certainly invested more time than some of the owners of the caches I translated. Moreover, I not only translated the texts, but also provided guidance with respect to the material. Certainly these are aspects that are not visible from profiles and from looking at numbers. That's however a side issue here and not the motivation behind my curiosity what's so wonderful about a quartz icon.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited May 30, 2011 by cezanne

[+Chokecherry]

The award system doesn't add any incentive for me to look for earth caches. I don't enjoy them as much anymore in general. But if one is in the area, looks like there is something to see and something I understand on the cache page I'll do it. Not to rack up numbers but to find it. Just like any other cache. People keep track of numerous statistics on this site. It's not unique to earth cachers. There's geocoins for a variety of numerical achievements.

 

But I figure if it makes some people happy to have a way to keep track of their achievements good for them. If that makes this more enjoyable for them good for them. It's no more harmful than me coloring a map when my travel bugs move or when I get a new county (literally take a crayon and color). It means nothing. But it's just something amusing to me.

 

I see no harm in it. Nothing to go off and rant and rave about. And it doesn't hurt earth caching in general unless one wants to limit it to a tiny elitist group of people (which has been mentioned here at least one time by one person as a desire).

[cezanne]

People keep track of numerous statistics on this site. It's not unique to earth cachers.

 

I fully agree. It#s even worse outside of Earthcaching and leads so extremes like this one

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC2WBKW

which clutters up a city with caches just for the sake of numbers.

 

And it doesn't hurt earth caching in general unless one wants to limit it to a tiny elitist group of people (which has been mentioned here at least one time by one person as a desire).

 

A group smaller than the too heavily group of cachers currently existing, yes. Elitist, no. There are simply already more cachers than the cache sites in my country can tolerate and that holds for all sorts of caches there. Any further rate of growth is harmful. That might be different in other countries and holds just for the caching area I am really familiar with. The original intention of geocaching in my country was engaging in a secret activity and making sure that it stays secret and confined to a certain group and not to tell everyone about it (in particular not the media). That's however nothing specific to Earthcaching.

 

Cezanne

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Good grief Charlie brown!!!

[savant9]

I love the aspect of achievements. The original masters program is one of the reasons I am getting my passport. Without leaving my country or making an extremely long road trip, I can never attain the platinum level (the 5 states/countries part). Will my life change when I become a platinum master? No not at all, but I will feel a sense of accomplishment. I look forward to the new levels even though I have a long way to go till I hit the first level.

 

I am also proud of my gamerscore on xbox live. Does it matter that collected 20 Vault-tec bobbleheads in Fallout 3? It matters to me that's why I replayed the game to make sure I got them all.

 

I am not sure why there is so much angst towards new levels. If its something that you like, then strive for it. If you couldn't care at all for it, then ignore them.

[+Flintstone5611]

It matters to me...

 

And that is all that counts in the end. Well put!

 

+1

[Neos2]

Closing the thread at the request of the original poster.