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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I guess you haven't seen the "trail of heroes" caches yet... :ph34r:

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I don't have an opinion on such matters as commercial cabches are banned, so no way a GPSr manufacturer, charity, or business would be promoted by those who stop us mentioning the name of a nearby cafe or bar.

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Was pretty excited to read about the Geico contest this morning and went to register.. NOPE! USA only.

Oh Well.

 

makes sense, Geico doesn't operate in Canada

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I suppose the Jeep travel bugs weren't commercialism?

 

How about the Ape caches?

Edited by Thrak

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I suppose the Jeep travel bugs weren't commercialism?

 

How about the Ape caches?

Groundspeak were not promoting those

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I suppose the Jeep travel bugs weren't commercialism?

 

How about the Ape caches?

Groundspeak were not promoting those

 

huh? :blink:

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I suppose the Jeep travel bugs weren't commercialism?

 

How about the Ape caches?

Groundspeak were not promoting those

Yes they were!

 

Project APE had their own category created.

 

Jeep travellers were announced and promoted on the front page.

 

"No commercial caches" where the cache owner gets the kickback... Donate tha kickback to Groundspeak and all is fine.

 

Please raise my PM rate 10% and stop the hypocrisy!

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I guess you haven't seen the "trail of heroes" caches yet... :ph34r:

 

With the overwhelming dominance of posters from The U.S. and Canada in these forums, I'll bet most people haven't seen it.

 

I also expect such a commercial cache venture will barely turn a head over here, where the Trail of heroes in Europe seems to have been very controversial. Anyone that does question the commercialism aspect will have about 15 posters lining up to tell them "it's Groundspeak's website, and they can do whatever they want". :)

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Commercial caches are completely and utterly possible- with cooperation from Groundspeak. This is nothing new.

 

Trackable items (Geocoins and Travel Bugs) are excluded from the commercial cache guidelines. Also nothing new.

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Commercial caches are completely and utterly possible- with cooperation from Groundspeak. This is nothing new.

 

Trackable items (Geocoins and Travel Bugs) are excluded from the commercial cache guidelines. Also nothing new.

+1. Great summation.

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I guess you haven't seen the "trail of heroes" caches yet... :ph34r:

 

So now should I complain that the trail of heroes caches aren't available in the US??

 

Commercial caches are not allowed WITHOUT Groundspeak PERMISSION.

 

I think this is a good thing so every business in town doesn't show up with caches to promote businesses. That would get really old really quick.

 

HOWEVER, if Groundspeak cares to put out caches that enable cachers to get prizes, what the heck?

I'm in.

This is adding to the game, not detracting. What the heck?

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I guess you haven't seen the "trail of heroes" caches yet... :ph34r:

 

So now should I complain that the trail of heroes caches aren't available in the US??

 

Commercial caches are not allowed WITHOUT Groundspeak PERMISSION.

 

I think this is a good thing so every business in town doesn't show up with caches to promote businesses. That would get really old really quick.

 

HOWEVER, if Groundspeak cares to put out caches that enable cachers to get prizes, what the heck?

I'm in.

This is adding to the game, not detracting. What the heck?

 

Agreed. I like that promotion better. :anitongue:

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I suppose the Jeep travel bugs weren't commercialism?

 

How about the Ape caches?

Groundspeak were not promoting those

 

Um, yes Groundspeak most definitely was involved in those promotions. The APE caches have their own icon and souvenir.

 

Those Jeeps ended up in Canada, too...probably some still kicking around, although they are long out-of-date, and of no value to Canadians even when they were current. :rolleyes:

 

Knowledge Books section on "Promotions":

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=44

 

Trackables don't fall under the "commercial" guidelines any way.

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HOWEVER, if Groundspeak cares to put out caches that enable cachers to get prizes, what the heck?

I'm in.

This is adding to the game, not detracting. What the heck?

 

you sound like you live in USA...ooh wait, you do :lol:

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Oh, thanks for the info. Just requested a TB from them.

 

Not all contests can be international. Its just how it goes.

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Oh, thanks for the info. Just requested a TB from them.

 

Not all contests can be international. Its just how it goes.

Not all contests are valid in all 50 states either. There was much angst around the Jeep promotion being prohibited in places like Florida.

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Just clarifying that the Geico promotion is about a contest and a trackable. There hasn't been any mention of actual GEOCACHES that promote Geico.

 

Requested my trackable and entered the contest earlier in the week. Chance to win a new GPSr and I probably get a trackable that I will release into the wild for others to find and log.

 

I understand that there might be some disappointment in the inability for some folks to enter the contest and/or get a free trackable. Such is life.

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A free trackable? I'm in.

Purchased a cache starter kit from this site and it had an Expedia travel tag in it so there are lots of commercial inroads with the frog and I don't see anything wrong with it.

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And that was probably due to laws in FL, not any decisions made by Groundspeak or Jeep.

 

Commercial caches are completely and utterly possible- with cooperation from Groundspeak. This is nothing new.

 

Trackable items (Geocoins and Travel Bugs) are excluded from the commercial cache guidelines. Also nothing new.

 

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

 

oops was that post too commercial? :unsure:

 

(yes, it was, link removed by moderator)

Edited by Eartha
remove commercial link.

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I must be missing something here......

 

(most) Everyone is posting "commercial cache" comments/remarks/objections..... But, but, but I don't see any commercial cache in the link.

 

I see a contest (through GEIKO) using geocaches, and a promotional TB (free, I might add).

 

Just why the rancor about "commercial cache(s)"? I see none involved. I see an apples/oranges argument.

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Commercial caches are completely and utterly possible- with cooperation from Groundspeak. This is nothing new.

 

Trackable items (Geocoins and Travel Bugs) are excluded from the commercial cache guidelines. Also nothing new.

 

Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I suppose the Jeep travel bugs weren't commercialism?

 

How about the Ape caches?

Groundspeak were not promoting those

 

Um, yes Groundspeak most definitely was involved in those promotions. The APE caches have their own icon and souvenir.

 

Those Jeeps ended up in Canada, too...probably some still kicking around, although they are long out-of-date, and of no value to Canadians even when they were current. :rolleyes:

 

Knowledge Books section on "Promotions":

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=44

 

Trackables don't fall under the "commercial" guidelines any way.

 

 

Uh, yeah some of us did get that the contest is about 6,000 trackables. :rolleyes:

Edited by Pup Patrol

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As noted, travel bugs and geocaches are different things. I'm moving this discussion from the geocaching topics forum to the travel bug forum.

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I suppose the Jeep travel bugs weren't commercialism?

 

How about the Ape caches?

Groundspeak were not promoting those

 

Aside from the Jeep bugs, they had the expedia bugs (I got one and it's out in the world just look under my profile), there were also those bugs for that guy who played violin out there...

 

I would imagine there is an exchange of money between the commercial entity and Groundspeak resulting in this.

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Commercial caches are completely and utterly possible- with cooperation from Groundspeak. This is nothing new.

 

Trackable items (Geocoins and Travel Bugs) are excluded from the commercial cache guidelines. Also nothing new.

 

Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I suppose the Jeep travel bugs weren't commercialism?

 

How about the Ape caches?

Groundspeak were not promoting those

 

Um, yes Groundspeak most definitely was involved in those promotions. The APE caches have their own icon and souvenir.

 

Those Jeeps ended up in Canada, too...probably some still kicking around, although they are long out-of-date, and of no value to Canadians even when they were current. :rolleyes:

 

Knowledge Books section on "Promotions":

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=44

 

Trackables don't fall under the "commercial" guidelines any way.

 

 

Uh, yeah some of us did get that the contest is about 6,000 trackables. :rolleyes:

 

And clearly, some did not as this was turning into a discussion about commercial caches. I was speaking to those that mentioned commercial caches in the posts above. I see your :rolleyes: and raise you one :omnomnom:

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Wow,with all the talk about commercial caches being a big no no,i'm very surprised to see this. Is this not commercialism in caching?

 

I suppose the Jeep travel bugs weren't commercialism?

 

How about the Ape caches?

Groundspeak were not promoting those

Yes they were!

 

Project APE had their own category created.

 

Jeep travellers were announced and promoted on the front page.

 

"No commercial caches" where the cache owner gets the kickback... Donate tha kickback to Groundspeak and all is fine.

 

Please raise my PM rate 10% and stop the hypocrisy!

 

My bad,i didn't realize that. I'm not saying im against or for this. Just saying that with the hard stance on a business name being on a cache it surprises me to see this act of commercialism on their part. Sorry didn't know the history of those others.

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I'm not saying im against or for this. Just saying that with the hard stance on a business name being on a cache it surprises me to see this act of commercialism on their part. Sorry didn't know the history of those others.

That's the problem with moving/closing these threads. Newbies have not seen the history and don't realize that Groundspeak has always reserved the right to publish commercial caches when they choose to do so.

 

Groundspeak is a business. Part of their income is derived from selling advertising on their site. Part of there sit is user provided content in the form of caches pages, trackable pages, and logs. Groundspeak would like prefer all user provided content to be free from commercial aspects. Someone wishing to advertise could simply put commercial content in all of their logs or on their cache pages, instead of paying Groundspeak to run an add or set up a promotion using geocaches or travel bugs.

 

Many users run into the commercial guidelines when the place a cache near a business they have no connection to, but wind up promoting the business by including the business name or saying something innocuous like "try the donuts". They didn't intend an advertisement but the reviewers still won't publish the cache unless they make changes. The reviewers are fairly strict on this guideline because it is hard to tell viral advertising from someone cache who happens to like the donuts as some location. While reviewers will never publish a commercial cache, they can, on rare occasions, be published by getting pre-approval from Groundspeak.

 

The commercial guidelines apply to geocaches. There are a couple of reasons that travel bugs don't have this restriction. First of all, unlike cache pages, the travel bug pages are not reviewed before publication. Even if you could police after that fact that a page is being used for advertising, what can you do once a bug has been released attached to something with corporate logo or advertising on it? Secondly, players pay $5~$6 for a travel bug tag (and generally more for a coin). So Groundspeak is getting some income for the travel bug page and for that the travel bug owner is allowed a bit of leeway. (I'm thinking of releasing an Opie the Squirrel travel bug soon, just to test this :ph34r: ). Geocoins that are trackable on Geocaching.com do go through an approval process, so while they can be commercial or have a agenda, Groundspeak has control over what can go on a coin.

 

Logs that are commercial are generally considered off topic or spam. Cache owners are asked to delete them (and I suppose that trackable owners should as well). Unless they are particularly blatant, I suspect that Groundspeak generally takes no action.

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Commercial caches are completely and utterly possible- with cooperation from Groundspeak. This is nothing new.

 

Trackable items (Geocoins and Travel Bugs) are excluded from the commercial cache guidelines. Also nothing new.

The Golden Rule. Who has the most gold, makes the rules. Also nothing new. :anitongue:

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Well, how else can Groundspeak continue to offer free memberships, if they don't get revenue from somewhere? Those hamsters get hungry.

And, the people providing that revenue are going to put their money where it will do them the most good, where their customer base is located.

Eventually, these TBs will cross the borders and start visiting other countries too, but there are laws, lots of them, governing contests in other countries, the make it unfeasible for them to be run internationally.

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Well, how else can Groundspeak continue to offer free memberships, if they don't get revenue from somewhere? Those hamsters get hungry.

And, the people providing that revenue are going to put their money where it will do them the most good, where their customer base is located.

Eventually, these TBs will cross the borders and start visiting other countries too, but there are laws, lots of them, governing contests in other countries, the make it unfeasible for them to be run internationally.

 

... I wouldn't just place the onus on the users with the free membership for this one. I noted in another thread awhile ago when a job was posted at the Lily Pad that they offer a very generous benefit package... how do they expect to keep paying their employees and offering benefits? Because realistically membership fees aren't paying for that. I would imagine their branding helps in that as well. As well all the app sales. Oh and the trackables and other doo dads in the store that are sold. I've always said there's more than one way to financially support Groundspeak for those that want the warm fuzzies in doing it. Not just membership fees. And I would imagine that they arrange some sweet little deals for these corporate deals.

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Of course. Something that grows as fast as geocaching has to bring in all the revenue it can to keep the website up and running, so it can continue to grow and bring its users the upgrades they ask for. The point is, why should an advertiser run a promotion where their product is not sold, and Groundspeak has to allow some advertising/promotions to keep the revenue coming in. And still be able to offer free memberships, and pay employees (that was the feed the hamster part of my comment).

 

hamster-weekly.png

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snip/.... but there are laws, lots of them, governing contests in other countries, the make it unfeasible for them to be run internationally.

 

please give an example because i really can't think of any law that would prohibit GC to approach a potential sponsor to run a contest

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Of course. Something that grows as fast as geocaching has to bring in all the revenue it can to keep the website up and running, so it can continue to grow and bring its users the upgrades they ask for. The point is, why should an advertiser run a promotion where their product is not sold, and Groundspeak has to allow some advertising/promotions to keep the revenue coming in. And still be able to offer free memberships, and pay employees (that was the feed the hamster part of my comment).

 

hamster-weekly.png

 

Advertisers won't waste the money on advertising where their product isn't sold. I remember as a youngen that they (other businesses) held contests in the US where Alaska and Hawaiian residents were excluded. I also have seen numerous contests in the US where various states are excluded for whatever regulatory reasons. I would imagine someday that may occur too.

 

Groundspeak is a business plain and simple. They're not doing the best they can to scrape by here and there. They're a business out there to turn a profit. It would seem silly to me if they turned down these corporate deals based on that alone. I would imagine a long future and more widespread future of these deals at some point. I'm deluded into thinking this is a charity project for folks or that they are just barely scraping by.

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snip/.... but there are laws, lots of them, governing contests in other countries, the make it unfeasible for them to be run internationally.

 

please give an example because i really can't think of any law that would prohibit GC to approach a potential sponsor to run a contest

 

That isn't what I mean. This goes way back to the first Jeep promotion, and people overseas were upset that they couldn't enter. The laws about contests and sweepstakes vary so much from country to country, that corporations would need an army of lawyers, just to give away a prize, so they don't do it. It is cost prohibitive.

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Can someone send me one via geomail. My address is lifechooser@GC2KZ5m. First bug to get to me gets an unactivated geocoin of my choice.

 

(I'm assuming that the missions can be set by the owners. Once I get the bug the owner can change the mission and I'll re-release it)

Edited by lifechooser

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I'm assuming that the missions can be set by the owners.
Isn't the mission already set by "Geico"? The site says to place the tag in a cache, but doesn't mention the mission -- except that there's a map to see where they are. The the ones for the musician were already activated (had an owner).

 

Maybe I can clip the Geico tag* to a TB tag. Then set the mission to visit England. :P

 

*I don't have the Geico tag. It's some kind of random drawing contest thing, I think.

Edited by kunarion

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The T&C's state that they are unactivated, so I'm assuming that they can have a mission and an owner, unlike the Jeeps.

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Dissappointed the contest is for USA only. What about Canada and the rest of the world?

 

Advertisers won't waste the money on advertising where their product isn't sold.

 

This is the answer to the original question.

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Was pretty excited to read about the Geico contest this morning and went to register.. NOPE! USA only.

Oh Well.

 

makes sense, Geico doesn't operate in Canada

 

snip/.... but there are laws, lots of them, governing contests in other countries, the make it unfeasible for them to be run internationally.

 

please give an example because i really can't think of any law that would prohibit GC to approach a potential sponsor to run a contest

Because Groundspeak has to obey the laws of their state/country regarding sweepstakes, contests, and the like?

 

Even contests and sweepstakes that are run in Canada can have exclusions. "Not available to residents of ...." appears a lot, if you read the fine print.

 

As already mentioned, contests in the US often say "not available to residents in Alaska" or will say "only in the 48 contiguous states".

 

Why is everyone so anxious to help promote an insurance company? :blink:

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The T&C's state that they are unactivated, so I'm assuming that they can have a mission and an owner, unlike the Jeeps.

Cool. It sure does say "brand new, un-activated", right there on the front page. :rolleyes:

 

If you drill down through the Geico site, there's a photo of the thing:

15zju3l.jpg

Edited by kunarion

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Why is everyone so anxious to help promote an insurance company? :blink:

 

I'm promoting geocaching, Travel Bugs and reptiles. The fact that it's a good idea (and the law in some states) to have auto insurance never factored in for me. I don't use Geico. I don't have anything against Geico.

 

I also don't have a problem with Groundspeak making a profit or partnering with companies to further the agendas of both companies.

 

When this website becomes the NASCAR of GPS hunt sites, then it will be a problem. So far, the promotional trackables are few and far between. The promotion caches even fewer and further.

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Like the Jeeps, these can head overseas when the contest is over. Or through natural travel. Maybe when the contest is over someone will be willing to adopt one over to you, and you can watch it travel. But to pull one out of the game now will reduce the chances for those eligible to win. So it isn't even fair for you to ask for one now.

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The T&C's state that they are unactivated, so I'm assuming that they can have a mission and an owner, unlike the Jeeps.

Cool. It sure does say "brand new, un-activated", right there on the front page. :rolleyes:

 

If you drill down through the Geico site, there's a photo of the thing:

 

As seen on the Groundspeak page:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geico/

 

Well, that was fast...

 

We are sorry to say that our supply has run out!

 

We have sent all the GEICO Gecko’s out to new homes and hopefully to caches near you. While we can’t send you your own anymore, you can on the lookout for them by tracking their latest movements. Also don’t forget to fill out the entry form for the Find the Gecko Sweepstakes.

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After a quick look at the Geocaching and Geico home pages I see nothing about the Travel Bugs. The only place I've seen any info on them is here in the forums. So, how did they first get discovered?

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Well, how else can Groundspeak continue to offer free memberships, if they don't get revenue from somewhere? Those hamsters get hungry.

And, the people providing that revenue are going to put their money where it will do them the most good, where their customer base is located.

Eventually, these TBs will cross the borders and start visiting other countries too, but there are laws, lots of them, governing contests in other countries, the make it unfeasible for them to be run internationally.

I guess Jeremy could go back to having a Paypal Donate button on the Geocaching.com home page.

Edited by mikemtn

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The T&C's state that they are unactivated, so I'm assuming that they can have a mission and an owner, unlike the Jeeps.

Cool. It sure does say "brand new, un-activated", right there on the front page. :rolleyes:

 

If you drill down through the Geico site, there's a photo of the thing:

 

As seen on the Groundspeak page:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geico/

 

Well, that was fast...

 

We are sorry to say that our supply has run out!

 

We have sent all the GEICO Gecko’s out to new homes and hopefully to caches near you. While we can’t send you your own anymore, you can on the lookout for them by tracking their latest movements. Also don’t forget to fill out the entry form for the Find the Gecko Sweepstakes.

 

Wow, glad I got in on it yesterday :)

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Well, that was fast...

 

We are sorry to say that our supply has run out!

 

We have sent all the GEICO Geckos out to new homes and hopefully to caches near you. While we cant send you your own anymore, you can on the lookout for them by tracking their latest movements. Also dont forget to fill out the entry form for the Find the Gecko Sweepstakes.

 

Wow, glad I got in on it yesterday :)

It didn't say that at 10AM (it's 12:30 now), when I filled out the form. I'm either among the last few that will get one, or they had already run out. I got the sweepstakes "confirmation" email. Do they also send a lizard confirmation?

Edited by kunarion

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