Use of Google Earth for cache coordinates

[+Borbus]

I have noticed more and more that people are using Google Earth to "correct" their GPS coordinates or not even using GPS at all. I know for a fact that Google Earth is offset from GPS by a constant amount in many areas, so this leads to every GPS coordinate being off by a quite considerable distance. I became suspicious when the markers would just look too good on the maps on the cache pages, but I have heard from people now that this is in fact what cache owners are doing.

 

I think this is a terrible practice and should be against the rules if it is not already. For geocaching we should need nothing more than a GPS while out in the wild and, while I like using maps and satellite imagery, they should not be a requirement for this activity. I have been telling people not to do this and to use a good accurate GPS (not an iPhone) and hope the word might get around but I don't think it is enough. I think Groundspeak need to make this issue much more clear for potential COs.

 

Thoughts?

[+wiseye]

What he said...agree

[sabrefan7]

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

2.1. Listing Guidelines that Apply to All Geocaches

 

This page is an extension of our Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines.

 

Technical Requirements

Listings must contain accurate GPS coordinates. You must visit the geocache site and obtain all the coordinates with a GPS device. GPS usage is an integral and essential element of both hiding and finding geocaches and must be demonstrated for all cache submissions. Projecting waypoints from locations defined by coordinates is permissible. For geocaches that include Additional Waypoints, see the guidelines specific to those cache types.

 

 

A good cache should have accurate coordinates within a distance of 7-25 ft. This is what you can get with just about any handheld device after averaging.

If you find people using "soft coordinates" that may be off over 50 ft then post a needs maintenance log. If you think its being ignored or done on propose then contact the reviewer or post an needs archive log.

[+luvvinbird]

For establishing coordinates? No. I don't think anything can beat the accuracy of a GPSr right at GZ. My use of Google Earth is pretty much limited to copying and pasting the coords from the cache page to get an idea of the terrain, parking, buildings, etc. I also enjoy birding and I've noticed that a few fellow birders are starting to provide GPS coordinates of uncommon sightings so, once again, a copy / paste onto GE gives a general view of the terrain one might encounter.

[+L0ne.R]

I have noticed more and more that people are using Google Earth...

Thoughts?

 

What's also bad is, when the Google Earth CO won't update their coords after being given more accurate lat/long from finders with dedicated GPSrs.

 

If I recall correctly there was a suggestion that when submitting a cache the CO would have to say what device they used to get the coords. Word might get around though that even if you use GE you would not select it because your cache hide would be rejected.

 

The problem with GE besides the inaccuracy, is that anyone can hide a cache with zero investment in the game. The 11 year old kid gets an empty yogurt tub from mom and plants it in the ditch across the street. 10 years ago you needed to invest at least $100 for a dedicated GPS to hide a cache, so hiding was mostly an adult thing.

 

I don't know how Groundspeak could deter the use of Google Earth or Google Maps or Bing, etc.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Lone R

[Mr.Yuck]

I'd just like to say I have seen caches archived by reviewers when it became obvious the coordinates came from Google Earth. By two different reviewers in two different Countries, actually. Would I personally be the d-head to report such a listing? Probably not.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I have noticed more and more that people are using Google Earth...

Thoughts?

 

What's also bad is, when the Google Earth CO won't update their coords after being given more accurate lat/long from finders with dedicated GPSrs.

 

My issue with using Google Earth is that Geocaching is a game played globally, thus a "Global Positioning System" which works the same everywhere in the world (ok, there are pockets of ares where satellite signals don't reach as well as others) produces consistent accuracy of obtained coordinates wherever one may go to play the game.

 

Google Earth satellite images are *not* consistent. While most places in the US and Europe have high resolution images which could allow someone to zoom in to the point where they could identify "the third tree from the end of the block" there are many places in the world where the resolution of the imagery is much lower and even the identification of small towns would be difficult. Then there are large areas such as the cloud forests in Costa Rica where the terrain is completely obscured by cloud cover.

[+narcissa]

It is against the guidelines.

[+dfx]

What makes it worse is that newbie finders will then see that the coords are "spot on" when looked at in Google, but off when they try to use a GPS to find the cache, and thus are made believe that Google is more accurate than the GPS.

[+StarBrand]

Google Earth or any other online maps have very inconsistent coordinates, in our local area there are places near spot on with the GPS unit and just 10 miles away the images are a good 180 feet off. The trouble is, you just can't trust it. Nearly every online or printed map has a stated accuracy of 40 feet and well known locations up to 150 feet. Nearly any handheld GPS can do better.

[+John in Valley Forge]

Bad idea to try to use GE to place a cache (and against the guidelines). They are accurate enough to find a parking lot, nut not a cache container. I can think of many caches that I've looked at on GE and found the map to be off.

I was looking for a cache in a park yesterday. The coordinates took me to the southside of the end of a footbridge, Google Earth says it is on the northside. I didnt find it on either side, but that is my problem.

 

It is good to use as a tool. When placing a cache, look as a sanity check to make sure you did not transpose the coordinates. When seeking a cache, look at it to get your bearings and the "lay of the land".

[+johnvanderlip]

I've found several caches using google earth only and it's a fun way to do it. This thread got me thinking it would be a neat attribute to add "google earth friendly" if it's easily found without a GPS.

I know this thread was asking about hiding before somebody points it out.

[+StarBrand]

I've found several caches using google earth only and it's a fun way to do it. This thread got me thinking it would be a neat attribute to add "google earth friendly" if it's easily found without a GPS.

I know this thread was asking about hiding before somebody points it out.

....Until the next image update and it is way off again....

[+TerraViators]

I've experinced the opposite with GE accuracy. I can confirm with GE that most of my hides are are exactly where the sat images place them.

[+StarBrand]

....I can confirm with GE that most of my hides are are exactly where the sat images place them.

 

most??

 

I would think they are all where the image places them.

 

Coords - well now that another issue......

Edited May 22, 2011 by StarBrand

[+TerraViators]

....I can confirm with GE that most of my hides are are exactly where the sat images place them.

 

most??

 

I would think they are all where the image places them.

 

Coords - well now that another issue......

My point is that I cannot confirm the accuracy on a sat image with my hides that are in the woods. I have to trust the GPSr.

[+dfx]

Funnily enough, the aerial imagery Google has of Christian Island is pretty good, while their road data has a consistent and significant offset. Usually it's the other way around.

[+CrazySanMan]

I'd just like to say I have seen caches archived by reviewers when it became obvious the coordinates came from Google Earth. By two different reviewers in two different Countries, actually. Would I personally be the d-head to report such a listing? Probably not.

 

I had the opposite happen to me. I submitted a cache and the reviewer rejected it because on the satellite image map from Google the cache appeared to be in the middle of a highway even though I used 5 samples taken over 5 days with an Oregon 450 GPSr to obtain the coordinates. The location was a wooded area next to a highway with a large fence between GZ and the highway and a note in all caps at the start of the description saying DO NOT APPROACH THE CACHE FROM THE HIGHWAY.

[+TerraViators]

There is a cache about a mile south of the Red River in Texas. The GC listing shows the cache in Oklahoma. When I run a county search in GSAK, it shows I have found a cache in Cooke Co., TX and Cooke Co., OK. There is no Cooke county in OK.