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Are there guidelines on FTF? Cachers in this city seem to be doing Co-FTFs. Cacher 1 finds it first and cacher 2 is at ground zero and hunting when the cacher 1 finds the cache. Is the cacher 2 entitled to claim a Co-FTF? It seems to me that cacher 2 is second to find and not entitled to claim a Co-FTF. Just curious. Thanks.

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Are there guidelines on FTF? Cachers in this city seem to be doing Co-FTFs. Cacher 1 finds it first and cacher 2 is at ground zero and hunting when the cacher 1 finds the cache. Is the cacher 2 entitled to claim a Co-FTF? It seems to me that cacher 2 is second to find and not entitled to claim a Co-FTF. Just curious. Thanks.

 

If cacher 1 and 2 are hunting together, and cacher 1 finds it, but cacher 2 was helping them, cacher 2 would get the co-FTf.

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If there are 2 or more cachers hunting for FTF here at the same time, whoever has their hands on the cache signs first, then the others. Generally, it is a shared FTF as the other cachers are eliminating spots where the cache isn't.

However, there are no guidelines for FTF - it is a side game, as it were. Everyone gets a smiley. The best part of the FTF race, in my opinion, is the mini-event that takes place at the scene!

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FTF is not a sanctioned part of Geocaching but rather a local friendly game that goes by a number of variations. To me FTF is a fact not an award or a decision, the first person to find the cache and sign the log by whatever means are at hand is the FTF.

 

FTF and 2 quarters will get you a soda at the machine over on Main street.

 

As a bonus - 2 quarters work equally well.

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There are no guidelines on FTF.

 

It seems simple to me though. Whoever found it first is the FTF.

 

If a whole group of people found one of mine and want to all call themselves the FTF, I have no problem with that. Heck, if the 50th finder wants to call himself FTF it doesn't matter to me. As long as they enjoyed finding my cache then it has accomplished it's purpose.

 

Since there are no rules or guidelines for FTF, different people play it different ways.

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There's no stats for FTF.

 

I love going for one... But only for one reason... Meeting other cachers in their natural environment. No event cache required!

 

I remember one a couple of years back with 8 teams present. We searched, and we searched, and we searched. Then... We spotted the cache owner, looking a bit embarrassed... With the cache under his arm! Place before submitting for publication guys... Sometimes these reviewers are super quick!

 

Good day though... Impromptu event at a nearby watering hole!

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There are quite a few who really go all-out on the FTF race ("guidelines" or not).

Search a few "how many" threads on these forums and most have folks who not only know how many, but which caches they were.

Those folks rarely consider "co" or "shared" .

 

Two fallen logs side-by-side. I'm at one and you're at the other. If your log has the cache under it, you're FTF. Congrats.

 

Did a 4+ terrain once and a guy was sitting on a rock while I scrambled all over a boulder ridge (coords way off). He claimed "co FTF" on the site log and all he did was hang out, waiting for me to find it.

Sheesh.

I rarely play FTF anymore. My other 2/3rds sometimes does.

I usually get one on a 5+ miler that's been sittin' for a week. :laughing:

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Some cachers have irrational expectations of others when it comes to this unsanctioned side game, but in reality, there are no FTF guidelines. Certain kinds of behaviour might make you unpopular with other cachers, but it's up to you to decide whether or not you care.

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If you are a FTF and the CO doesn't acknowledge it on the website cache page, does being a FTF mean anything? Just curious.

And just why should a CO acknowledge this? Does that make it something other than what it is -- finding it and being the first person to put writing into the log?

First to Find is just that, nothing more and nothing less. Certainly not more "important" than the second nor even the thousandth to find, actually, it would be less important than that thousandth find!

 

FTF (as it has evolved) is nothing more than a cacher tooting at other cachers.

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To me, FTF is the first person to sign the log. Not, wrote on the outside of the container, not spotted it high in the tree.

I believe you must sign the log in nearly every case (leaving room for unusual exceptions) and certainly for the FTF.

 

The aspect of the FTF chase that I have grown to like it that it is the most likely time to meet other cachers. There is a fairly devoted crowd of them around here and I have met most of them at events. My best chance of running into them on the trail is going after an FTF. For that matter, any time on the first day of a new cache is likely to attract a lot of cachers here and I've been know to hang out near the new cache just to try to spot others looking and say HI.

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Are there guidelines on FTF? Cachers in this city seem to be doing Co-FTFs. Cacher 1 finds it first and cacher 2 is at ground zero and hunting when the cacher 1 finds the cache. Is the cacher 2 entitled to claim a Co-FTF? It seems to me that cacher 2 is second to find and not entitled to claim a Co-FTF. Just curious. Thanks.

 

If cacher 1 and 2 are hunting together, and cacher 1 finds it, but cacher 2 was helping them, cacher 2 would get the co-FTf.

 

Not necessarily it would be up to the person that made the FTF find to share it with Cacher number 2 it would be the right thing to do but just not a given.

 

Scubasonic

Edited by Scubasonic
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Are there guidelines on FTF? Cachers in this city seem to be doing Co-FTFs. Cacher 1 finds it first and cacher 2 is at ground zero and hunting when the cacher 1 finds the cache. Is the cacher 2 entitled to claim a Co-FTF? It seems to me that cacher 2 is second to find and not entitled to claim a Co-FTF. Just curious. Thanks.

 

There are no guidelines. It is perfectly acceptable to claim it even if you found it after 100 other people did, so whichever or both of you can claim it.

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What started the FTF? It's the CO that offers "rewards" and most go out of their way to post the first finder on their cache page. A notification of a newly published cache usually starts a "feeding frenzy" of those seeking to be the FTF. So it's unimportant?

 

That depends on where you live. It's not uncommon for newly published caches to go unfound for 2-3 days around here. There are only 25 active caches in the entire country of Iran. Only 9 of them have ever been found. With such a wide range of geocaching environments around the world I just don't see how a global set of FTF guidelines would be relevant.

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What started the FTF? It's the CO that offers "rewards" and most go out of their way to post the first finder on their cache page. A notification of a newly published cache usually starts a "feeding frenzy" of those seeking to be the FTF. So it's unimportant?

 

That depends on where you live. It's not uncommon for newly published caches to go unfound for 2-3 days around here. There are only 25 active caches in the entire country of Iran. Only 9 of them have ever been found. With such a wide range of geocaching environments around the world I just don't see how a global set of FTF guidelines would be relevant.

 

True. Around here there are about 2-3 FTF hounds and another dozen casual FTFers who won't go out of their way but if one falls in their lap they will go for it. Most cache owners don't acknowledge the FTF on the cache page either. There is no FTF feeding frenzy and I think most cachers around here would say that it is unimportant.

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If cacher 1 and 2 are hunting together, and cacher 1 finds it, but cacher 2 was helping them, cacher 2 would get the co-FTf.

Not necessarily it would be up to the person that made the FTF find to share it with Cacher number 2 it would be the right thing to do but just not a given.

Explain to me how Cacher #1 has any ability to control whether Cacher #2 claims a FTF or not.

 

The only person who can determine if Cacher #2 got a FTF is Cacher #2.

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I agree with briansnat...it's really unimportant in the grand order of the world. However, I really enjoy the FTF game. I acknowlege the FTF on my hide listings. I track my stats. I enjoy the thrill of the race and the hunt, seeing the cache in its original placement, a dry log, etc. I enjoy the company of the other FTF hounds, also. For some reason, the FTF races causes angst in these forums. I enjoy it but it's like anything else, some do, some don't

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I am sure the reason there is not real guideline or stat is because you can't prove when a cacher is cheating on FTF. Like creating an account or have friends who put out caches so they can be FTF on as many as they want. Been seeing a lot of caches recently that have been presigned by cachers before they were published. Some thought I was doing it with a well known cacher. So I started submitting them when he was out of the area just to show I was playing fair.

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To me, FTF is the first person to sign the log. Not, wrote on the outside of the container, not spotted it high in the tree.

I believe you must sign the log in nearly every case (leaving room for unusual exceptions) and certainly for the FTF.

 

Linguistically, First means First. Only one person can be first. The person near the person who found it first cannot be first. S/he would be second.

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Has anybody mentioned that FTF is an unofficial competition and therefore there aren't any rules? Yeah, I thought so, so I won't mention it again.

 

That is generally what happens in my area when more than one cacher is looking for FTF at the same time. They become a team for the moment.

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I guess that is a way to define someone. If someone is there while one finds it first:

One who is thoughtful and generous would not think twice about sharing.

Or someone who is greedy and selfish, signs it, and leaves without saying a word to the other cacher there.

Everyone has there own personal rules or FTF is no biggie it's just another cache.

With me if they don't share, Oh well, I won't be upset. But if I was FTF and someone shows up while I have the cache still in my hand, I usually share. But if I had already put the cache back then either I will leave or I will stand there and chat with them while they search for it.

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It is all up the the people involved. Personaly, I didn't claim FTF when my dauter made the grab. She claimed FTF, and scratched the lottery tickets. I logged something like "Crud...Beaten to the FTF my my own dauter." And at that point, I didn't even have a FTF of my own. It would have been my first FTF. But that is just how I play. Everyone can do it however they like.

 

Edit: One of my recent FTFs, there was another cacher at GZ when I arived. I ended up making the find, and he didn't claim coFTF. So I guess I am not the only one who works like that.

Edited by Andronicus
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It is all up the the people involved. Personaly, I didn't claim FTF when my dauter made the grab. She claimed FTF, and scratched the lottery tickets. I logged something like "Crud...Beaten to the FTF my my own dauter." And at that point, I didn't even have a FTF of my own. It would have been my first FTF. But that is just how I play. Everyone can do it however they like.

 

Edit: One of my recent FTFs, there was another cacher at GZ when I arived. I ended up making the find, and he didn't claim coFTF. So I guess I am not the only one who works like that.

 

Yeah, but I'll bet if you had found the cache first instead of your daughter, that you would have logged as co-FTF. (or, would you have logged, "Beat my own daughter to FTF... that loser!" :lol:)

Edited by knowschad
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It is all up the the people involved. Personaly, I didn't claim FTF when my dauter made the grab. She claimed FTF, and scratched the lottery tickets. I logged something like "Crud...Beaten to the FTF my my own dauter." And at that point, I didn't even have a FTF of my own. It would have been my first FTF. But that is just how I play. Everyone can do it however they like.

 

Edit: One of my recent FTFs, there was another cacher at GZ when I arived. I ended up making the find, and he didn't claim coFTF. So I guess I am not the only one who works like that.

 

Yeah, but I'll bet if you had found the cache first instead of your daughter, that you would have logged as co-FTF. (or, would you have logged, "Beat my own daughter to FTF... that loser!" :lol:)

This is my point. It is up to the cacher. If she had wanted to clame CoFTF, she could have, and I would not have cared. I still may have posted about how I beat my (then) 9 year old daughter...

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FTF is not a sanctioned part of Geocaching but rather a local friendly game that goes by a number of variations. To me FTF is a fact not an award or a decision, the first person to find the cache and sign the log by whatever means are at hand is the FTF.

 

FTF and 2 quarters will get you a soda at the machine over on Main street.

 

As a bonus - 2 quarters work equally well.

 

Where do you live that you can get a soda out of the machine for two bits????? :blink:

 

Next you'll tell us that gas is $1.29 a gallon!

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Where do you live that you can get a soda out of the machine for two bits????? :blink:

 

Next you'll tell us that gas is $1.29 a gallon!

 

I think the only reason he keeps posting this (in every single FTF-related thread no less) is to induce responses like yours. And quite successfully, too.

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Are there guidelines on FTF? Cachers in this city seem to be doing Co-FTFs. Cacher 1 finds it first and cacher 2 is at ground zero and hunting when the cacher 1 finds the cache. Is the cacher 2 entitled to claim a Co-FTF? It seems to me that cacher 2 is second to find and not entitled to claim a Co-FTF. Just curious. Thanks.

 

If cacher 1 and 2 are hunting together, and cacher 1 finds it, but cacher 2 was helping them, cacher 2 would get the co-FTf.

 

Not necessarily it would be up to the person that made the FTF find to share it with Cacher number 2 it would be the right thing to do but just not a given.

 

Scubasonic

 

If the first person doesn't want the 2nd person to claim a co-FTF, then the 1st person should either not tell the 2nd he found it and hide the cache in his jacket until the 2nd person finally gives up and leaves.

 

OR

 

Find out the 2nd person's login and password and edit the log and delete all references to FTF, co-FTF or anything similar to this.

 

:laughing:

 

The best thing about going for an FTF is meeting other cachers. This is the ONLY reason I will race out as a new cache is published.

Edited by 42at42
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It is all up the the people involved. Personaly, I didn't claim FTF when my dauter made the grab. She claimed FTF, and scratched the lottery tickets. I logged something like "Crud...Beaten to the FTF my my own dauter." And at that point, I didn't even have a FTF of my own. It would have been my first FTF. But that is just how I play. Everyone can do it however they like.

 

Edit: One of my recent FTFs, there was another cacher at GZ when I arived. I ended up making the find, and he didn't claim coFTF. So I guess I am not the only one who works like that.

 

Yeah, but I'll bet if you had found the cache first instead of your daughter, that you would have logged as co-FTF. (or, would you have logged, "Beat my own daughter to FTF... that loser!" :lol:)

This is my point. It is up to the cacher. If she had wanted to clame CoFTF, she could have, and I would not have cared.

 

That seems to be where the issues about FTF arise.

 

Since there is no official registry of who is "really" FTF on a cache or a central site which maintains statistics on the number of FTFs for all geocachers, anyone can "claim" to be FTF. Essentially, when "Cacher A" claims a FTF they'll likely add the cache to their personal list of FTFs. The problem seems to be some that play the FTF game *do* seem to care if someone else claims FTF on a cache, even though they might not have access to the personal list of FTFs that other geocachers maintain.

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Since there is no official registry of who is "really" FTF on a cache or a central site which maintains statistics on the number of FTFs for all geocachers, anyone can "claim" to be FTF. Essentially, when "Cacher A" claims a FTF they'll likely add the cache to their personal list of FTFs. The problem seems to be some that play the FTF game *do* seem to care if someone else claims FTF on a cache, even though they might not have access to the personal list of FTFs that other geocachers maintain.

 

Forum thoughts on a case of someone caring what others claim in a non-sanctioned side game please:

 

Recently published cache contains this

 

"There will be NO Co-FTF logs by cachers with different usernames. Only the FIRST cacher to complete this cache will be allowed a FTF. All Co-FTF logs involving two or more cachers with different usernames will be deleted."

 

Obviously the CO can choose to recognize/not recognize whomever they want for FTF, but the logs can not be deleted if he doesn't like people claiming co-ftf's/group finds/no one ever claming ftf/whatever, right?

 

I see this as a type of ALR, not exactly an ALR because it doesn't necessarily affect every person finding the cache, but very similar to an ALR as a restriction of what people can or can't say in their log.

 

Anyways I'd like to hear your opinion too! Thanks!

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Since there is no official registry of who is "really" FTF on a cache or a central site which maintains statistics on the number of FTFs for all geocachers, anyone can "claim" to be FTF. Essentially, when "Cacher A" claims a FTF they'll likely add the cache to their personal list of FTFs. The problem seems to be some that play the FTF game *do* seem to care if someone else claims FTF on a cache, even though they might not have access to the personal list of FTFs that other geocachers maintain.

 

Forum thoughts on a case of someone caring what others claim in a non-sanctioned side game please:

 

Recently published cache contains this

 

"There will be NO Co-FTF logs by cachers with different usernames. Only the FIRST cacher to complete this cache will be allowed a FTF. All Co-FTF logs involving two or more cachers with different usernames will be deleted."

 

Obviously the CO can choose to recognize/not recognize whomever they want for FTF, but the logs can not be deleted if he doesn't like people claiming co-ftf's/group finds/no one ever claming ftf/whatever, right?

 

I see this as a type of ALR, not exactly an ALR because it doesn't necessarily affect every person finding the cache, but very similar to an ALR as a restriction of what people can or can't say in their log.

 

Anyways I'd like to hear your opinion too! Thanks!

If I claimed a co-ftf on that cache and my log was deleted, I would contact Groundspeak and have it reinstated.

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Recently published cache contains this

 

"There will be NO Co-FTF logs by cachers with different usernames. Only the FIRST cacher to complete this cache will be allowed a FTF. All Co-FTF logs involving two or more cachers with different usernames will be deleted."

 

Obviously the CO can choose to recognize/not recognize whomever they want for FTF, but the logs can not be deleted if he doesn't like people claiming co-ftf's/group finds/no one ever claming ftf/whatever, right?

 

I agree with you -- this smacks of ALR. If the cachers find it and sign it, they should be allowed to log it online. I hardly think using the phrase "co-FTF" would stand up as valid grounds for a log deletion, but only Groundspeak could answer that for sure.

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Since there is no official registry of who is "really" FTF on a cache or a central site which maintains statistics on the number of FTFs for all geocachers, anyone can "claim" to be FTF. Essentially, when "Cacher A" claims a FTF they'll likely add the cache to their personal list of FTFs. The problem seems to be some that play the FTF game *do* seem to care if someone else claims FTF on a cache, even though they might not have access to the personal list of FTFs that other geocachers maintain.

 

Forum thoughts on a case of someone caring what others claim in a non-sanctioned side game please:

 

Recently published cache contains this

 

"There will be NO Co-FTF logs by cachers with different usernames. Only the FIRST cacher to complete this cache will be allowed a FTF. All Co-FTF logs involving two or more cachers with different usernames will be deleted."

 

Obviously the CO can choose to recognize/not recognize whomever they want for FTF, but the logs can not be deleted if he doesn't like people claiming co-ftf's/group finds/no one ever claming ftf/whatever, right?

 

I see this as a type of ALR, not exactly an ALR because it doesn't necessarily affect every person finding the cache, but very similar to an ALR as a restriction of what people can or can't say in their log.

 

Anyways I'd like to hear your opinion too! Thanks!

If I claimed a co-ftf on that cache and my log was deleted, I would contact Groundspeak and have it reinstated.

 

Why go through the trouble? I'd just re-log with TFTC and then mark the FTF box in GSAK. I don't need to make a big fuss on someone's cache page to know that I was FTF.

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"There will be NO Co-FTF logs by cachers with different usernames. Only the FIRST cacher to complete this cache will be allowed a FTF. All Co-FTF logs involving two or more cachers with different usernames will be deleted."

 

I just signed a blank log on a new cache today. In keeping with my practice I did not claim anything or use the three initials. But a cache description like this would make me change my policy - but only if I signed on the second line or below. I would definitely use the initials if I were the fourth, fifth, or fifteenth - or anything but the first.

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I went after my first FTF today and lucked out and scored 2. Yes, when I signed the logs, I did put "FTF". However, the only reason I did this is that after 100+ finds, I wanted just one. I finally got them on caches 131 & 132. Am I going out of my way for a FTF from now on? Probably not. Am I going to track my stats? Probably not. It was fun to finally get one; the second was just the icing on the cake. Now it's time to get back to the thrill of the hunt - whether I'm #1 or #101.

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Just had the experience on the 30th of June. Met up with a cacher and kids in tow, enroute it turned out to the same NEW cache.

We chatted about an informal 'race' to the prize. They had an older GPS that probably would have beat my old 45xl, but not the 60cx.

I was new to that area, they knew the paths, and we diverged but came back together in a dead heat at GZ area. They went to their version and spread out, I followed the GPS, got to the cache hide but went out to check on their progress. Another chat with the other and commented that I was doing OK, but that if they found it around that tree I would claim it... We agreed at that time to share the Find, I located it, she picked it up and we opened it in one place with the whole group. I say 1+2 = 3 3/2 is 1.5 on average. So two 1.5TF's in effect. Since the 'prizes' for the first three user accounts to find were identical, we each got one and the third visit has also occurred now. Neither of us was big on FTF itself, so sharing by agreement worked out well. The kids had a great time on their 'treasure hunt'(the 5 YO I think). Had I been on time they wouldn't have been there, but it wouldn't have been as much fun for all. The fun is the important part. Under different circumstances who knows? It doesn't matter all that much to me. Certainly not as much as the kids enjoying caching and meeting someone I've emailed but didn't know, a bonus!

It was a lot more fun than the one I got in a snowstorm back during the winter... brr.

 

Doug 7rxc

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We realize that FTF's aren't official. With that being said, my hubby was introduced to geocaching by a buddy, both of them "rather competitive". My hubby had a few FTF's and his friend didn't so when he saw one posted, he grabbed his friend and took off to find it. At GZ, both guys were looking at the same spot. My husband lifted an object revealing the cache which his friend grabbed and signed quickly. They both knew who would be the "official" FTF before they ever left home. How would anyone write rules on how to call that find otherwise? Now they compete with each other (and against said friend's dad) for FTF's in our rural area. It's especially fun if they can get one right next to the other guy's house. They both work full time so the retired cachers still get their share too. :) Caching is supposed to be fun, right?

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