Garmin Montana

[+Bullygoat29]

It does both. It has a true gps receiver and it uses cell towers to help it "fast fix" it's location.

[+Chrysalides]

Honest question here: does the iPhone actually receive from GPS satellites? Or from cell towers like other cell phones?

Almost all cell phones receive from both. Read A-GPS on Wikipedia.

 

The cell phone uses information from the towers to assist in getting a fix from the satellites more quickly.

[+Walts Hunting]

Just a note. Ram-Mount expects to have a holder by Aug 1st. They haven't received one from Garmin to make the molds from.

[+barraseaclaid]

Honest question here: does the iPhone actually receive from GPS satellites? Or from cell towers like other cell phones?

 

far as im aware...both...if your on your maps and there is a nice tidy blue dot...thats gps based location identification.....

if its a blue dot with a pulsing circle around it thats cell tower based triangulation and the circle around the dot represents the error of margin....i think

[+Walts Hunting]

Was looking at the pictures and there is no carabiner mount like the Oregons have so how do we carry it?

[+ecanderson]

Honest question here: does the iPhone actually receive from GPS satellites? Or from cell towers like other cell phones?

Yes, although you'd wonder about some of the iPhones prior to the 4.

[+LukeTrocity]

There is a new video on youtube about the montana but its not in english....

 

Translator!

[+dfx]

There is a new video on youtube about the montana but its not in english....

 

Translator!

 

Link? Language?

[+LukeTrocity]

There is a new video on youtube about the montana but its not in english....

 

Translator!

 

Link? Language?

Try this

 

 

Edit: also

Edited May 21, 2011 by LukeTrocity

[+dfx]

Try this

 

 

Ah, now with the language of the original presentation I could've helped, but not with what the guy is talking over it

[+LukeTrocity]

How do we attach it without a spring clip? Why the heck is it so big? The thing looks like a brick!

 

The battery versatility is cool, but beyond that I'm not seeing the hoopla.

 

Maybe more info to come

[+Walts Hunting]

I am guessing it is back to lanyard.

 

It might be big because it has a 4 inch screen. Can't make the support smaller than the screen, holds 3 batteries, has charging circuit and hopefully a better antenna. While it is bigger and a couple ounces heavier it isn't that much. I will be looking at in the sun the day REI gets one and if I like it I will get it.

[+humboldt flier]

I still think it is a replacement for the 500 / 550 series

[strv122]

Videos from GPS CITY

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/GPSCity#g/u

[+Chrysalides]

I still think it is a replacement for the 500 / 550 series

I disagree for the following reasons:

 

1. No City Navigator maps included

2. No built-in speakers, require purchase of mount

3. Not called Nuvi 1500 or something like that

 

Still, it doesn't really matter what we think it is a replacement for, or think it is a totally new line, so long as we know what features it has.

[+Walts Hunting]

I thimk he meant oregon 550

[Barrikady]

I will be looking at in the sun the day REI gets one and if I like it I will get it.

 

Yes, I agree. That is also my plan.

[+Chrysalides]

I thimk he meant oregon 550

Don't think so. See post #4.

[ZeMartelo]

I dont see myself rush to buy it for several reasons:

 

- It looks too bulky for hiking. It might be great for ATVing or biking but for me the GPS is used mostly geocaching on foot.

 

- Cost.

 

Now it has a couple features that I like, the charging circuit is good and the 5Meg camera.

 

I wish the 550 had a 5meg camera.

[+Walts Hunting]

He did say the Nuvi but he is mistaken. This is obviously the upgrade from the Oregon.

 

I don't agree about bulky and weight. An inch longer and a few ounces heavier isn't going to have any effect on any hiker I know. When I take a long hike I have a camelbak with water, food and extra batteries. That is a decent amount of weight.

 

The ability to pull it out of its case and actually read the screen without looking like I am trying to get cell phone coverage is worth it. Besides I am a geeky guy.

[+ecanderson]

I don't agree about bulky and weight. An inch longer and a few ounces heavier isn't going to have any effect on any hiker I know. When I take a long hike I have a camelbak with water, food and extra batteries.

Yes, but you're not trying to hold all of that in your hand while on the move. I'm a little disappointed that with just a bit more glass and case, and one additional AA cell, they show that the Montana 600 comes in 72% heavier than the Oregon 450. When I first got my 450, I thought it was a lot heavier than my Dakota 20 (which it is -- by 30%). Whatever happened, for very similar functionality apart from the amount of memory onboard and the screen size, these units have moved from

 

5.25oz for the Dakota 20, to

6.8oz for the Oregon 450, to

11.7oz for the Montana 600. Yes, 11.7oz is really close to 3/4 of a pound.

Edited May 21, 2011 by ecanderson

[Barrikady]

Well, if we are going to talk about tenths of an ounce, I find your statement disingenuous and somewhat misleading.

 

You are quoting the weight of the Montana with the three optional "AA" batteries installed within the Montana.

 

The Montana ships with a single Li-ion battery which when installed within the Montana, gives a total weight of 10.2 ounces.

 

Yes, 1.5 ounces less than the weight of the Montana with the 3 AA batteries installed.

 

My opinion is that I will gladly accept the additional weight IF the screen is bright in the sun and IF Garmin uses a SIRF GPS chip. Otherwise I'm staying pat with my Oregon 300.

 

 

 

11.7oz for the Montana 600. Yes, 11.7oz is really close to 3/4 of a pound.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Barrikady

[+Walts Hunting]

One ounce of water weighs about 1 ounce. So if I shed 1.5 ounces of water during my hike it is a draw. I think I know how to do that.

 

Plus with the advertised 16 hours of use on a charge I don't have to carry extra batteries so I am way ahead.

 

I can take at least one extra granola bar with this device because of the weight savings. More than worth it.

 

While I use rechargeable batteries if I didn't I would save enough over the years to pay for it. So actually you might say it is free.

[+ecanderson]

Well, if we are going to talk about tenths of an ounce, I find your statement disingenuous and somewhat misleading.

Feel free to feel that way, but realize that serious hikers may well prefer the readily available and less expensive rechargeable AA solution. The proprietary lithium pack was always one of the dings against the 500/550 in untethered use.

 

Doesn't much matter. It's still a hell of a lot heavier than an Oregon, and MUCH heavier than the Dakota, and apart from the case and display, the internal bill of material will be very, very similar. If anything, one would expect higher levels of integration to help bring the size, weight (and cost) down. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the inside of one of these things.

[Barrikady]

Well, if we are going to talk about tenths of an ounce, I find your statement disingenuous and somewhat misleading.

Feel free to feel that way, but realize that serious hikers may well prefer the readily available and less expensive rechargeable AA solution. The proprietary lithium pack was always one of the dings against the 500/550 in untethered use.

 

Doesn't much matter. It's still a hell of a lot heavier than an Oregon, and MUCH heavier than the Dakota, and apart from the case and display, the internal bill of material will be very, very similar. If anything, one would expect higher levels of integration to help bring the size, weight (and cost) down. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the inside of one of these things.

 

I agree with you that there are weight fanatics who stress-out about ounces, and will do anything to shave-off traveling weight. They should carry a Dakota or the Edge 705 (3.7 ounces)

 

Uh, I am not that concerned about ounces. I am more interested in a big screen, a bright screen, a fast processor, and an accurate and fast gps processor. Is that asking for too much? I don't think so. Maybe the Montana 600 will do the trick for me. I hope so.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Barrikady

[+ecanderson]

The Montana ships with a single Li-ion battery which when installed within the Montana, gives a total weight of 10.2 ounces.

... and to put this brick into perspective, an iPhone 4 weights 4.8oz, and has almost as big a screen.

[+ecanderson]

I agree with you that there are weight fanatics who stress-out about ounces, and will do anything to shave-off traveling weight.

I'm not one of those who worry about those things either, but even then it was why I was taking exception to the argument being made by Walts Hunting. It's not the traveling weight so much as the weight in the hand that's getting .. well .. out of hand. Neither those who drill holes in their toothbrushes nor those who just don't want the extra mass in their hands will be as happy as they might have been.

Uh, I am not that concerned about ounces. I am more interested in a big screen, a bright screen, a fast processor, and an accurate and fast gps processor. Is that asking for too much? I don't think so. Maybe the Montana 600 will do the trick for me. I hope so.

No, you're not asking too much, but you should be able to get what you're asking for in a much lighter weight package than is being offered in the Montana 600. I'm just surprised they weren't able to do better. Edited May 21, 2011 by ecanderson

[Barrikady]

The Montana ships with a single Li-ion battery which when installed within the Montana, gives a total weight of 10.2 ounces.

... and to put this brick into perspective, an iPhone 4 weights 4.8oz, and has almost as big a screen.

 

Oh please, what kind of perspective is that! Are you in the advertising business?

 

I have an iPhone and to compare the iPhone to a dedicated Garmin receiver is ludicrous.

 

But hey, I also know when enough is enough. This will be my last post on this bizarre subject.

[+ecanderson]

Oh please, what kind of perspective is that! Are you in the advertising business?

Hardly! - that's known in engineering circles as "The Dark Side" (along with Marketing in general). I design this stuff. The point of the comparison was that all of the added glass of a Montana explains little about a considerable Jenny Craig situation. I was trying to head off any attempt at explaining away the weight issue as a function of the increase in glass vs. the Oregon, and the substantial screen of the iPhone4 was handy. Nothing more sinister than that.

[yogazoo]

The weight issue aside, there are considerable UI improvements that, in my opinion, substantially increase useability and functionality over the Oregon series. Check out the dozen or two videos at GPSCity (Montana Video's). Menu's are fully customizeable, much like the 62 series.

 

The most attractive aspect of the built in camera, to me, remains the fact that's it's essentially waterproof. Why no video Garmin?

 

All of these features, while intruiging, still don't cover the cost and make up for the bulk in my opinion. Someone with a money tree may disagree. For me the choice is; sell both my Oregon 450 AND my 62s to be able to afford ONE Montana 650. That's my situation financially and it's a choice I'm not likely to make.

[+user13371]

ECAnderson, you're making the exact same points I did about the iPhone the other day -- see posts 31 & 37

Barrikady (and some of the others who scoffed at the comparison) didn't get it yesterday and probably still don't / won't get it.

In fact, I found B's remark "to compare the iPhone to a dedicated Garmin receiver is ludicrous" delightfully ironic.

 

I did not offer the iPhone up for comparison as a GPS, but as a more general concept: Here's a programmable, general purpose computer with an 800Mhz, 512MB of RAM, 32GB of flash storage, a big bright touchscreen with resolution approaching that of a glossy printed page, a slew of sensors: multiple accelerometers, gyroscopes, three axis compass, TWO cameras (5MP with flash, plus a front facing camera for video conferencing). AND multiple radios -- BlueTooth, WiFi, cellular voice and data on multiple bands, and (almost "by the way") a complete GPSR.

 

The most common usage is to leave all those features turned pn and having to charge it pretty much every day. But you can selectively turn features off to save power, and spend a very full day geocaching without having to recharge. And there are bumper style cases with an internal batteries available that would add ruggedness and more than double the battery life -- and the whole bundle STILL comes in a bunch thinner and lighter than an Oregon or a Montana or PN-60 or Endura.

 

A similar comparison could be made with quite a few Android phones -- I only mention the iPhone because I have one. The point isn't to compare any smartphone to Garmin specifically for its GPS features. My point is (and I do have one) that the amount of technology and computing power packed into these slim cases far outstrips what Garmin or any other GPS maker is putting into their devices.

 

So when I see people ooh-ing and ahh-ing over a "handheld" GPS the size of a brick, I gotta go "Huh?"

Edited May 22, 2011 by Portland Cyclist

[+ecanderson]

ECAnderson, you're making the exact same points I did about the iPhone the other day -- see posts 31 & 37

Barrikady (and some of the others who scoffed at the comparison) didn't get it yesterday and probably still don't / won't get it.

That's OK. I still don't, either. Neither company has delivered the device it might have. Although we're getting close, the ideal device needs to have the weight of the iPhone and the IPX7 spec of the Montana and its many Garmin predecessors. I'm still not sure why that isn't possible. There are other problematic compromises that can and should be dealt with as well, but those two come to mind immediately.

[+keehotee]

The point isn't to compare any smartphone to Garmin specifically for its GPS features. My point is (and I do have one) that the amount of technology and computing power packed into these slim cases far outstrips what Garmin or any other GPS maker is putting into their devices.

 

I'd hazard a guess and say that durability is the issue here.

 

The Garmin has been designed to do what it does for as long as you keep feeding batteries into it.

The iPhone/Android/whatever has been designed to do what it does for a couple of years at most - until there's either a new model to tempt you, or it's so dinked and scratched that you simply buy another one.

[+splashy]

You are SO RIGHT, I own a Samsung Galaxy S Android and compared to a Garmin it is lightyears ahead, the only minus is the screen in very bright sun.

I have a silicon cover, a zag screen protector and a lanyard and indeed I you shut down what you don't need it goes on for a long time.

Edited May 22, 2011 by splashy

[+user13371]

... the ideal device needs to have the weight of the iPhone and the IPX7 spec of the Montana and its many Garmin predecessors.

Most impressive thing I've read about the Montana is Garmin claiming IPX7 even with speakers and a headphone jack.

 

When I think of "waterproof," I think of minimizing or eliminating case openings. In many handheld GPSRs, USB and charging ports often have novel connections for that purpose -- and little piezo-electric beepers rather than speakers. In a smartphone form factor, you could have a completely sealed device with wireless data sync, inductive charging, and bluetooth audio. No case openings == easier to make waterproof.

 

IP69K, anybody?

Edited May 22, 2011 by Portland Cyclist

[+Chrysalides]

Although we're getting close, the ideal device needs to have the weight of the iPhone and the IPX7 spec of the Montana and its many Garmin predecessors.

Other than padding for protection, I think size and performance of batteries is a large part of this. I would be upset if Garmin stops supporting AA batteries because they are inexpensive and convenient.

[+coggins]

Most impressive thing I've read about the Montana is Garmin claiming IPX7 even with speakers and a headphone jack.

The Montana doesn't have a speaker, it's in the auto mount. It does beep. As far as thin multitouch Garmin gps units, you could compare the NewtonPhone to the Nüvi 3790 et all units. Just as hardened and waterproof:/ Edited May 22, 2011 by coggins

[+coggins]

So back to the regular scheduled program…

 

I like that the Montana has an connector for an external antenna, something I would have liked for the Oregon series

Edited May 22, 2011 by coggins

[Barrikady]

DRAFT VERSION OF THE GARMIN MONTANA OWNERS MANUAL IS NOW AVAILABLE.

 

Thanks to Rich Owens for providing the link to the FCC which is reviewing the manual before approval of the Montana for retail sales

 

http://bit.ly/mOaTeL

 

When you get to the FCC site, download "USERS MANUAL 2." This is a pdf version of the 59 page manual.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Barrikady

[+Chrysalides]

A few things from the manual:

 

1. They got the name of the other site wrong, much to my amusement (yes, I know it's a draft, but still...)

 

2. It is still in the finest tradition of all Garmin manuals I've come across. Meaning, if you need the manual, you'll probably be heading to the wikispaces pages again.

 

3. The external mount connector provides some data, but unsure if it will allow a PC to connect to it through there for data transfer. Specifically, "The rugged AMPS power mount provides a mount and cable, which provides power, serial data (NMEA compliant) and audio".

 

4. No mention about charging of the lithium ion battery - how long it takes, how to do it (will it work when powered through USB?) Also no mention of charging of NiMH, I assume that's not going to work.

[+ecanderson]

One interesting bit from the '2nd' manual below... (and of course all of the '2nd' manual can and will change ... all the FCC cares about is Page 3 of the '1st' manual). I don't hear the love anymore.

I don't have any idea how it will work out in the rest of the country, but users in the Front Range area of Colorado will be disappointed when they reach step 6, even if they ever do figure out that the URL is wrong in step 5. Of the multiple thousands of caches we have here, I think perhaps 5 or 6 are listed on the Garmin site.

 

Geocaches

 

Geocaching is a type of treasure

hunting, in which geocachers seek

hidden treasures using GPS coordinates

posted on the Internet by those hiding

the geocache.

Downloading Geocaches

 

1. Register your device (page 3).

2. Connect your device to your computer (page 41).

3. Go to www.garmin.com/products/communicator.

4. Download the Garmin Communicator plug-in.

5. Go to www.OpenGeocache.com.

6. Follow the on-screen instructions to download geocaches to your device.

Edited May 22, 2011 by ecanderson

[jholly]

<snip>

5. Go to www.OpenGeocache.com.

And what type of marketing message would be sent if they used the site that actually had caches listed?

Edited May 22, 2011 by jholly

[+Bullygoat29]

<snip>

5. Go to www.OpenGeocache.com.

And what type of marketing message would be sent if they used the site that actually had caches listed?

 

Which site you do mean? Geocaching.com or Opencaching.com? Because the one listed goes nowhere.

[+Walts Hunting]

Although we're getting close, the ideal device needs to have the weight of the iPhone and the IPX7 spec of the Montana and its many Garmin predecessors.

Other than padding for protection, I think size and performance of batteries is a large part of this. I would be upset if Garmin stops supporting AA batteries because they are inexpensive and convenient.

 

Actually AA Alkaline are not inexpensive. I used the Lithium Ion for awhile and while they cost twice as much that lasted about 4 times longer so are actually cheaper. In addition the recycle impact less than Alkaline so if they disallow Alkaline for use in the device they are going Green and that is goo.

 

I just checked the manual and you can use Alkaline, Lithium or NIMH. Although with the 16 hours you are supposed to get and recharging each night I will probably only carry two batteries with me when I go out.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Walts Hunting

[+Dash-2]

I've been wanting to replace my Magellan Triton 1500 for a while now. Was looking into the Oregon (that's the state I live in, haha), but I am glad they released the new Montana. Going to wait for price to come down a little then jump on it!

[+Chrysalides]

Other than padding for protection, I think size and performance of batteries is a large part of this. I would be upset if Garmin stops supporting AA batteries because they are inexpensive and convenient.

Actually AA Alkaline are not inexpensive. I used the Lithium Ion for awhile and while they cost twice as much that lasted about 4 times longer so are actually cheaper. In addition the recycle impact less than Alkaline so if they disallow Alkaline for use in the device they are going Green and that is goo.

 

I just checked the manual and you can use Alkaline, Lithium or NIMH. Although with the 16 hours you are supposed to get and recharging each night I will probably only carry two batteries with me when I go out.

Sorry, I should have clarified that AA NiMH are cheaper. And the AA form factor is convenient because if I ran out of charged NiMH, I can easily pop into pretty much any store and get alkalines.

 

I wonder how much Garmin plans to sell a replacement battery for. The LiIon battery for a Nuvi 500 is about $30. A generic replacement probably costs less, but I've had very limited success with generic replacements with my digital cameras.

[+coggins]

I wonder how much Garmin plans to sell a replacement battery for.

 

Lithium-Ion Battery Pack

010-11654-03

$ 36.99 USD

[yogazoo]

Here's a scenario,

 

The FCC determines that, as a result of the testing with LightSquared, not only must LS place a filter on their transmitters BUT ALSO the GPS manufacturers must do better at filtering their receivers (which may be very likely). Given this potential, one could purchase one of these expensive little buggers only to have the signal squashed in a few months when the LS transmitters go online. Then the GPS manufacturers will begin designing and producing the receivers that have new filtering circuitry. The Montana (and all previous models) would then be obsolete.

 

I'm a bit apprehensive to spend this kind of dough before the LightSquared issue is finally resolved.

Edited May 23, 2011 by yogazoo

[yogazoo]

Here are FCC photo's of the interior. The antenna looks similar to the antenna found on the eTrex line (patch). I was hoping that, given the size, they would have a Quad Helix.

 

[+Woodstramp]

Yoga,

 

Soon as the payola is in place and Garmin crams in all the RF filters in the new LS-proof handhelds they will be the size of an Ipad and be called the "Siberia" line.

 

But it'll come with a boat orr attachment for river crossings.